Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I am just a Kohler dealer and don't have any more skin in the game than Bert does. And your well documented failure was a few hundred engines out of a production runs of several million. so the percentage of failure even with the problems was not that wide spread. And if it was such a failed engine design why are they still using it. Now with a dual conterbalance gear system and a single cam The basic bucket style engine is still there.

According to their website my engine has been discontinued. At least that's what it says. I'm sure they have newer/better designs now but I'll never try one as the last one was an epic fail. They may have worked out something with their own balance design that actually works now. After all it's been several years since the court found in favor of Briggs. (https://casetext.com/case/briggs-stratton-corp-v-kohler-co-11/?PHONE_NUMBER_GROUP=P&NEW_CASE_PAGE=N) But their early attempts at a balance system were an obvious fail (pictured in post above) and dangerous, they still are if any are still in service. Hopefully mine was the last to fail.

If a small percentage of a certain model of car exploded when their occupants drove them and the mfg knew this was likely to happen yet did nothing but offer an extended replacement warranty . Would you want to drive around in one of those cars? I wouldn't.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

If a small percentage of a certain model of car exploded when their occupants drove them and the mfg knew this was likely to happen yet did nothing but offer an extended replacement warranty . Would you want to drive around in one of those cars? I wouldn't.

That could kill you, I HIGHLY doubt a 19 hp kohler courage could kill you when the block cracks.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Chris, I’m glad to see that you believe the adage “If it’s on the Internet, it must be true”. You can believe what you want and you can post your beliefs, but IL, Bert, Scrub and I have been working in this industry far longer than you and we don’t use the Internet to get our facts. We base our opinions on actual dirt under the fingernails experience. Each person using this forum will make their own decisions based on who they think is more credible. My questions to you is “What is you background which makes you the expert on Courage engines? How many Courage engines have your worked on? Is your opinion based on factional or fictional experience?” Maybe it’s you who is the PAID REPUTATION DEFENDER for one of the clone engine manufacturers? I’ll be waiting to see how you defend your rant, but if you can’t we’ll know who’s buttering your bread.

Are you saying there was not a problem with those engines? Are you saying Kohler did not extend the engine warranty on those engines to 5 years? Are you saying there never was a lawsuit Briggs VS Kohler over a stolen counterbalance system? Are you saying Kohler did not have design problems with their early version of a balance system? Please let me know which of these you dispute and we'll go from there. Like I said it's about the facts. Who you are or who I am has nothing to do with the price of clones in China.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

Chris, did you ever hear of the courage problem before this incident?

 

[Rivets]

When you answer my questions with factional experience, I’ll answer your questions. According to your rants the only good engines produced were Maytag and Briggs models A through F, because all others had problems which needed to be covered under a manufacturers warranty.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Chris, Have you heard of the courage problem before hand?
in regards to a "paper thin" block, that''s about the same size thickness i've seen for around 20 HP engines, Kohler or not.
I'm not sure how this engine is 'dangerous' as any engine can punch through the block when it throws a rod, and any engine can throw a rod, whether it be low oil, no oil, or old age/wear. You've got a chunk of forged steel and aluminum rotating at 3200,3600 RPM, of course crap's gonna break when something lets go...

I hadn't heard of anything wrong with them at the time I purchased this one. I did suspect early on that there was something wrong when my buddy's engine blew out the back. His failed before mine. I think he had like 15 to 20 hours on it. We discussed the failure and I couldn't understand what the deal was. We'd both been building Kohlers and Briggs engines for years for Garden tractor pullers and go karters. But I don't wanna talk much about that as it doesn't matter. Kohler was always the best engine for pulling and you couldn't kill one, well not easily anyway. Only thing came to mind was it must have been a production fluke. A Monday morning assembly job or the like. He got a new engine on the cub and it seemed to work well for the next few years then the oil leaks started (loose cover bolts) Again he thought it was likely a case of someone forgot to torque the bolts, simple worker error. After the repair a year or two went by without issue and blam another counterbalance came thru the 2nd engine. He put the cub on craigslist and bought a 20/54 Poulan pro with a twin cylinder Briggs. And so far, has mowed happily ever after.

I realize any aluminum engine block can be damaged but even the smaller Briggs engines have much thicker blocks than the disgraced 20hp bucket engine that I still have in the garage. I realized it wasn't just me when I looked on craigslist to see what these cubs were going for, and to my surprise there were and ARE tons of cub cadets in about every city you search with blown Kohler Courage engines. The used ones you see still running all have the twin cyl briggs engines. I mean you can check it out in your area to see where I'm coming from. Of course that means someone can get a deal as they are fine yard scalpers with a good engine in place. I like the newer cub stuff to mow with and the old cub stuff to pull with. I have no ill will toward anyone here at all. I just wanted to make it clear that at least the older Kohler Courage single cylinder engines are dangerous and flawed. It shouldn't be a problem as their website lists them out of production now but there still may be some of the older grenades floating around out there so it's buyer beware.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

When you answer my questions with factional experience, I’ll answer your questions. According to your rants the only good engines produced were Maytag and Briggs models A through F, because all others had problems which needed to be covered under a manufacturers warranty.

What questions? You want to know who I am and what qualifies me to have an opinion? Well my first name is Chris as per my username and that's all I'll give away. I'm qualified to have an opinion because I've actually owned one of these engines and had the exploding Courage experience. Have you?

 

[Scrubcadet10]

my name's Travis I'm also qualified to give an opinion as i also have a kohler courage 19, I've had the great running kohler courage experience 280 odd hours and fires up with the touch of the key, my valve cover does not leak, my starter has not gone bad (original) my camshaft hasn't gone out, my balancer hasn't kapooted, my top cover bolts haven't loosened up nor has the block cracked due to the bolts coming loose, and from the 1 kohler Courage i've opened up, the block seems to be as thick as an Briggs Opposed twin i opened up just a few months ago. i know one other guy on here who has 800 hours on his. only problem i have had was the carb needle failing, (walbro's issue not kohler's).

 

[StarTech]

Apparently you haven't seen the Briggs 09P series. Their crankcase are very thin too. I got a few in the recycle bin due to holes in the sides.

As for the Kohler Courage it appears to be replaced by another bucket engine design, The 5400 series.

 

[Hammermechanicman]

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