Engine Interesting work around for Starting failure

[bertsmobile1]

Pretend you are Toto and follow the yellow brick road, or rather the yellow wire.
From the S position 12 V goes through the PTO switch then through the parking brake switch then to the solenoid

Some where in the chain is the missing link, oops I am mixing up movies.

 

[BlazNT]

Maybe a blown fuse or a fusible link. Retest the switch and do it many times like 25 to 30 times. See if it failes even one time. If it does replace the switch.

 

[DAMatson]

Good afternoon All,

I finally had time and the cooperation of the weather locally, and went back out to begin checking the wiring as recommended. After giving it some thought, I felt that instead of tearing the harness apart again and retesting everything, that I would reconfirm my previous test results by retesting the Solenoid.

Without changing anything, I now am getting 12V on the lead going to the Ignition Switch S (for Starter Solenoid) pin, which I did not see before, which I believe changes everything. I am still NOT getting any voltage on the side of the Solenoid pole/lead going to the actual Starter itself when I turn ignition key from OFF to START position repeatedly. I did this particular test about 20 times to see if any of them registered, and none did. I of course have 12v at the battery side of the Solenoid, so it does now sound to me like the Solenoid is indeed bad.

Question: it was originally suggested by BlazNT earlier (top of Page-2 I believe) that I create a new wire run on that unused pole and wire it to Ground. If I made sure the Solenoid frame itself is cleaned (wire brush) & grounded to a bare metal portion of the mower frame, along with battery ground strap as well, and if the unused pole remains unwired, could that possibly account for the failure? I'm happy to run it as suggested regardless, but just didn't know if that could possibly account for the test fail, or possibly change the outcome of the test if I ran it...

-David

 

[BlazNT]

Rivits suggested about the wire and it was from a solenoid mounting bolt to a good ground. I too agree with Rivits. If you are going to replace the solenoid I always replace with a 4 pole one. Then run a new ground wire to the battery negative. That way I know it is grounded. I still believe it is your ignition switch. But a solenoid is cheap and easy to replace.

 

[Rivets]

If you are not getting 12 volts from the switch back to the solenoid, you have to trace the wire through the safety switches to the solenoid. If you are getting 12 volts on the solenoid post coming from the switch, then I would say bad solenoid.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Good afternoon All,

I finally had time and the cooperation of the weather locally, and went back out to begin checking the wiring as recommended. After giving it some thought, I felt that instead of tearing the harness apart again and retesting everything, that I would reconfirm my previous test results by retesting the Solenoid.

Without changing anything, I now am getting 12V on the lead going to the Ignition Switch S (for Starter Solenoid) pin, which I did not see before, which I believe changes everything. I am still NOT getting any voltage on the side of the Solenoid pole/lead going to the actual Starter itself when I turn ignition key from OFF to START position repeatedly. I did this particular test about 20 times to see if any of them registered, and none did. I of course have 12v at the battery side of the Solenoid, so it does now sound to me like the Solenoid is indeed bad.

Question: it was originally suggested by BlazNT earlier (top of Page-2 I believe) that I create a new wire run on that unused pole and wire it to Ground. If I made sure the Solenoid frame itself is cleaned (wire brush) & grounded to a bare metal portion of the mower frame, along with battery ground strap as well, and if the unused pole remains unwired, could that possibly account for the failure? I'm happy to run it as suggested regardless, but just didn't know if that could possibly account for the test fail, or possibly change the outcome of the test if I ran it...

-David

Sit down and have a think.
The solenoid works when you put 12 V on the terminal manually
SO what can be wrong with the solenoid ?
The trouble it is not getting 12 V
Without the 12 V and a good ground it can not work.

THE WIRE DOES NOT GO DIRECTLY FROM THE S TERMINAL TO THE SOLENOID

As previously mentioned back in post # 31 power goes through the PTO switch and through the parking brake switch then to the solenoid
And on your model it might also have a neutral switch as well.

AS you had some problems with the brake switch ( got off the mower and the starter spun ) I would put a short in the parking brake switch fairly high on the prime suspects list.

 

[Boobala]

HOPING to NOT add confusion, ... check these out.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvW7VbsleZ0 ....Taryl IS a COMEDIAN, but he knows his stuff !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi3p465MN1E

 

[DAMatson]

Good afternoon All,

I'll need to track down some thicker gauge wire to create that ground strap for that 4th pole on the Solenoid, I'll try to get that handled this weekend.

Based on what I've been able to read-up on PTO (Power Take Off), it's normally a gear or rotor that transfers power from the engine to an attachment, and while I can picture that on any other tractor, I can't think of where such a thing is on my tractor, other than the mower deck, and that is pulley/belt driven, and activated/deactivated by a physical lever, so now I'm even more confused about the PTO being an actual switch.

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is a PTO SWITCH, and where would it come into play in my equation?

-David

 

[Boobala]

Good afternoon All,

I'll need to track down some thicker gauge wire to create that ground strap for that 4th pole on the Solenoid, I'll try to get that handled this weekend.

Based on what I've been able to read-up on PTO (Power Take Off), it's normally a gear or rotor that transfers power from the engine to an attachment, and while I can picture that on any other tractor, I can't think of where such a thing is on my tractor, other than the mower deck, and that is pulley/belt driven, and activated/deactivated by a physical lever, so now I'm even more confused about the PTO being an actual switch.

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is a PTO SWITCH, and where would it come into play in my equation?

-David

EASY there Dave, the PTO some are referring to, is an electric type of "clutch" that engages to turn the belt that turns the blades ( similar to the old style A/C clutch on the compressor in older cars) it's mounted on the engine crankshaft pulley, these usually have a switch or knob on the dash, YOU ... have the good ol reliable hand lever which is some times called a PTO lever, instead of the blade engage lever, whichever moniker one prefers.

Also you only need a 14 or 12 guage wire for that "extra" ground from the solenoid .......

 

[bertsmobile1]

Good afternoon All,

I'll need to track down some thicker gauge wire to create that ground strap for that 4th pole on the Solenoid, I'll try to get that handled this weekend.

Based on what I've been able to read-up on PTO (Power Take Off), it's normally a gear or rotor that transfers power from the engine to an attachment, and while I can picture that on any other tractor, I can't think of where such a thing is on my tractor, other than the mower deck, and that is pulley/belt driven, and activated/deactivated by a physical lever, so now I'm even more confused about the PTO being an actual switch.

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is a PTO SWITCH, and where would it come into play in my equation?

-David

Just to confuse and confound people like you the end of the engine that supplies the power to devices is called the PTO
So when a tech talks about PTO we know which end of the crankshaft he is talking about.
This is because ride on lawnmowers originated from real tractors and were made by real tractor companies ( IH owned Cub for example )

On mowers there are two types of switches called PTO switches.
On mowers with manual blade engagement, it is a safety switch activated by the blade engagement lever. As is the case with your mower.
On mowers with electric blade engagement, it is a physical power ( on-off ) switch, with the safety switch tacked on to the end of it.