hydro-gear problems

[Cajun power]

on a hunch here... at what altitude is your property for this mower?

high altitude...rich mixture..low power....low power = premature hydrodrive wear?

noting: for every 1,000 feet of altitude of elevation above sea level, the typical gasoline engine will lose about 3 percent of power...(less oxygen...not enough bang). example at 5,000 feet ASL = 15 percent loss of power. Mower engines are generally designed to handle some altitudes without significant issues BUT hydro drives are particularly sensitive to POWER (and not necessary RPM..which is how most people think of when they say things like ...don't idle your engine when in motion...keep it wide open throttle. Most think this is a factor of RPM...because that is how it is relatable...but actually when dealing with altitude...where oxygen is lower in percentage...you can be operating at wide open throttle at 3400 RPM (that's usually the governor max rpm for most mower engines)...at sea level...that best torque and power...however, at 5,000 feet ASL...you are still at 3400 RPM...but it's not nearly as much "umpf"..it's less power. And this can definitely be a problem for hydros, especially on large mowing properties THAT INVOLVE INCLINE/DECLINE...hills, slopes.

there are a few tricks that the old school engine mechanics can share to help improve power even from a naturally aspirated carb mower engine at altitude....but I would not be the guy to give you the 1-2-3 on that. I've heard about a few mechanics tricks...mostly from high altitude chainsaw gurus. I'm not sure how easily it would be to modify a mower engine for altitude though...I'm sure someone has done it

other comment: generally speaking higher quality longer lasting, more powerful hydro drives have large cooking fans, serviceable filters, and oil reservoirs so you can inspect the condition of the oil..you not only get better power, but top speed. Everything internally is usually built with higher quality components and manufacturing processes.....especially the 12 mm drives...the 10mm drives are pretty much what you find in the home owner to middle prosumer...the commercial grade stuff is 12 mm drives...and at least a 25 HP twin needed to power them AND mow at same time. ...That might be what you are dealing with: cheaply made hydrodrives...that you've replaced them three times kind of points to a a trend suggesting just not well built and suitable for your application. Moving up to a commercial grade mower based on a commercial grade hydro drive is going to make a difference. At 800 a pop and the time down to replace must be frustrating.

also: One technique for driving mowers that I have found works well to help extend the life of hydros...no jerky movements...long slow radius turns. and no sudden stops or quick reversing...I know this sound silly because they are designed to turn on zero...but when you put a great deal of force applied in a short period of time, like full forward to full reverse very suddenly.....that really heats things up quickly...all those bushings, bearings, valves, races, passages....they all get beat really hard. This is especially true on hills..both going up and going down. I take a long line and try to avoid turning quickly at the top and bottom and working the mower hard in a hill in a short period of time.. I put the hill INTO a large pattern...like the hill next to the house...you cut that and then keep running up the hill into a larger pattern...and visa versa when going down...for very steep hills..I never go UP...Always driving downslope. it make a huge difference in load on the engine...600 pounds plus my weight going down hill requires far less power than moving that up the same hill. And whre you can, take a track that is steady gradual slope that leads to the top of the hill and then cut down the steep slope.....So the hydros and engine has time to cool off and I'm not at top torque all the time. I don't know if it really make a difference...But it's just something I do. Kind of how I have a 40 year old truck...I baby it. I know what I could run it hard...it's more than capable. But it's a 40 year old truck because I baby it. FACT. (yes, people hate me on the highway...lol...eff em)

and last comment (I promise): There is a specific after install air bleed procedures when replacing hydro oil and filters...it is the same process for installing new hydrogears...you really want to refer to the service manual on this procedures and don't take shortcuts. This is one of the benefits BTW with the higher quality hydro drives with a reservoir tank...you can see with your own eyeballs the air bleed process to make sure it is actually happening...bubbles and burbles...all of this is done unloaded wheels off the ground...make sure whe you ever service your hydros or replace them, follow this service manual process....it really does make a difference.

really beautiful property there...with a view like that, mowing must be some kind of wonderful...awesome.

God Bless America, Happy Independence Day!

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I went to the Sears Parts website. I got into their chat and they said that they have the trans axle. The cost including shipping & tax would be $826.46. So the situation that I have is do I buy a new unit or do I try to rebuild the unit that I have??? I actually have two units at this point and one other unit that is all apart. Decisions, decisions!!!

Hey Fred. If that one was made by AYP or Electrolux, you can probably find a parts tractor somewhere with a geared typed transaxle. Most of the Poulan Pro 54" cut tractors were gear type transaxles. They look like the old Sears Suburban cast iron units with the high/low stick but they're aluminum. Should be a bolt in swap, clutch pedal too. Just an idea if you're planning to keep your current tractor. Pretty good gear type rear ends.

 

[fixit1ddh]

I temp shoot My hydro's after mowing and there around 165 degrees +or- 5 degrees. Mow 7 acres. But not all at once. 9th season on the hydro gear ezt 2200. Has 630 hours also has 54 inch deck.. I just drilled and tapped cases last month. Changed oil put mobile 1 20W50 synthetic in. Have 14 hour's on it after changing seams to work fine.

 

[fred93]

Does anyone know a company that makes a riding mower that has a better Trans Axle.?

Are there trans axles made that have a drain plug and a oil filter?

The Hydro-Gear 400506 356-0510 does not have a drain plug or a oil filter. When I first started having trouble I called Hydro-Gear and they asked if I had changed the trans fluid. I said no because the Sears manual said that the fluid does not have to be changed.

If I buy another mower I would like to have a drain plug and a oil filter on the trans axle!!!

 

[fred93]

on a hunch here... at what altitude is your property for this mower?

high altitude...rich mixture..low power....low power = premature hydrodrive wear?

noting: for every 1,000 feet of altitude of elevation above sea level, the typical gasoline engine will lose about 3 percent of power...(less oxygen...not enough bang). example at 5,000 feet ASL = 15 percent loss of power. Mower engines are generally designed to handle some altitudes without significant issues BUT hydro drives are particularly sensitive to POWER (and not necessary RPM..which is how most people think of when they say things like ...don't idle your engine when in motion...keep it wide open throttle. Most think this is a factor of RPM...because that is how it is relatable...but actually when dealing with altitude...where oxygen is lower in percentage...you can be operating at wide open throttle at 3400 RPM (that's usually the governor max rpm for most mower engines)...at sea level...that best torque and power...however, at 5,000 feet ASL...you are still at 3400 RPM...but it's not nearly as much "umpf"..it's less power. And this can definitely be a problem for hydros, especially on large mowing properties THAT INVOLVE INCLINE/DECLINE...hills, slopes.

there are a few tricks that the old school engine mechanics can share to help improve power even from a naturally aspirated carb mower engine at altitude....but I would not be the guy to give you the 1-2-3 on that. I've heard about a few mechanics tricks...mostly from high altitude chainsaw gurus. I'm not sure how easily it would be to modify a mower engine for altitude though...I'm sure someone has done it

other comment: generally speaking higher quality longer lasting, more powerful hydro drives have large cooking fans, serviceable filters, and oil reservoirs so you can inspect the condition of the oil..you not only get better power, but top speed. Everything internally is usually built with higher quality components and manufacturing processes.....especially the 12 mm drives...the 10mm drives are pretty much what you find in the home owner to middle prosumer...the commercial grade stuff is 12 mm drives...and at least a 25 HP twin needed to power them AND mow at same time. ...That might be what you are dealing with: cheaply made hydrodrives...that you've replaced them three times kind of points to a a trend suggesting just not well built and suitable for your application. Moving up to a commercial grade mower based on a commercial grade hydro drive is going to make a difference. At 800 a pop and the time down to replace must be frustrating.

also: One technique for driving mowers that I have found works well to help extend the life of hydros...no jerky movements...long slow radius turns. and no sudden stops or quick reversing...I know this sound silly because they are designed to turn on zero...but when you put a great deal of force applied in a short period of time, like full forward to full reverse very suddenly.....that really heats things up quickly...all those bushings, bearings, valves, races, passages....they all get beat really hard. This is especially true on hills..both going up and going down. I take a long line and try to avoid turning quickly at the top and bottom and working the mower hard in a hill in a short period of time.. I put the hill INTO a large pattern...like the hill next to the house...you cut that and then keep running up the hill into a larger pattern...and visa versa when going down...for very steep hills..I never go UP...Always driving downslope. it make a huge difference in load on the engine...600 pounds plus my weight going down hill requires far less power than moving that up the same hill. And whre you can, take a track that is steady gradual slope that leads to the top of the hill and then cut down the steep slope.....So the hydros and engine has time to cool off and I'm not at top torque all the time. I don't know if it really make a difference...But it's just something I do. Kind of how I have a 40 year old truck...I baby it. I know what I could run it hard...it's more than capable. But it's a 40 year old truck because I baby it. FACT. (yes, people hate me on the highway...lol...eff em)

and last comment (I promise): There is a specific after install air bleed procedures when replacing hydro oil and filters...it is the same process for installing new hydrogears...you really want to refer to the service manual on this procedures and don't take shortcuts. This is one of the benefits BTW with the higher quality hydro drives with a reservoir tank...you can see with your own eyeballs the air bleed process to make sure it is actually happening...bubbles and burbles...all of this is done unloaded wheels off the ground...make sure whe you ever service your hydros or replace them, follow this service manual process....it really does make a difference.

really beautiful property there...with a view like that, mowing must be some kind of wonderful...awesome.

God Bless America, Happy Independence Day!

Thanks for the info. When I first got this mower I was going crazy up the hills way over 15°. Needless to say the trans axle didn't last too long doing that. After having the trans axle replaced under warranty I stopped running up the hills. But I still have some inclines to mow. At this point I am actually following your suggestion of going down the hill and not up. (I have been doing that even before I read your suggestion--glad to see I am doing sometime right at this point).

Seeing that I am either going to replace the trans axle again OR buy I better mower. Do you have any thoughts as to a new mower that last a better trans axle set-up and is not 15K?

Here is a pix of the hill that I mowed in the beginning. (I don't mow that any more)

 

[bertsmobile1]

AFAIK there are no residential mowers with replaceable hydro filters and or drain plugs
Blame yourself and the other 349,999,000 cheapskates who purchase the cheapest mower they can get their hands on .
You have to go to commercial grade mowers to get replaceable transmission filters
And I think the 3000 series Cubs were the last tractor style commercial grade mower made as trade went over to ZTR almost 100%

 

[bertsmobile1]

Thanks for the info. When I first got this mower I was going crazy up the hills way over 15°. Needless to say the trans axle didn't last too long doing that. After having the trans axle replaced under warranty I stopped running up the hills. But I still have some inclines to mow. At this point I am actually following your suggestion of going down the hill and not up. (I have been doing that even before I read your suggestion--glad to see I am doing sometime right at this point).

Seeing that I am either going to replace the trans axle again OR buy I better mower. Do you have any thoughts as to a new mower that last a better trans axle set-up and is not 15K?

Here is a pix of the hill that I mowed in the beginning. (I don't mow that any more)View attachment 66045

For slopes like that you need a horizontal shaft mower and a diesel one to boot
On slopes like that here I encourage my customers to plant low shrubs with wood chip paths between them then do spray with Glyco 2 or 3 times a year
Some take advice, others burn up their mowers from oil starvation and a few even planted fruit & berry trees which they trim low every couple of years.
One tenth the work required to grow grass , they get barrels of fruit & nuts annually and some even drop a "thank -you " bag of at my gate from time to time .
Looks like cherry & blue berry country to me .

 

[Cajun power]

Thanks for the info. When I first got this mower I was going crazy up the hills way over 15°. Needless to say the trans axle didn't last too long doing that. After having the trans axle replaced under warranty I stopped running up the hills. But I still have some inclines to mow. At this point I am actually following your suggestion of going down the hill and not up. (I have been doing that even before I read your suggestion--glad to see I am doing sometime right at this point).

Seeing that I am either going to replace the trans axle again OR buy I better mower. Do you have any thoughts as to a new mower that last a better trans axle set-up and is not 15K?

Here is a pix of the hill that I mowed in the beginning. (I don't mow that any more)View attachment 66045

upon seeing that incline and the size of it, I would not recommend an ordinary residential zero turn gasser. I think bertsmobile1 has the best advice...diesel mower..just realize that is going to be costly.

another idea besides the shrubs and berry trees he has suggested is to landscape (dirt work) that hill side into a series of terraces. It would give you several benefits:

1. erosion prevention/ground subsidence prevention/better drainage and water soil conditioning
2. easier to establish plants, trees, shrubs/bushes...ground cover
3. aesthetics

there are so many different ways to build terraces. In very steep inclines, and where there is heavy winter snow or lots of rain fall, it is advisable to use large stone and plan the excavation carefully (or concrete/block is stone is not available in your area). The idea is to create leveled terraces with strong retaining walls.

it would definitely be a big project, but doable if you had an excavator and the retaining wall materials and the time. In this way, you can grow something other than grass that requires mowing...like a very robust garden...it would of course attract all manner of animals and game too.

I've done this for a hunting camp in North Louisiana, that was on a large steep hill. We terraced an area of about 700 feet wide by 300 feet downslope. We grow alfalfa and sorghum to attract the deer to the property as well as lots of other native species of berries. In the upper terrace near the camp, we planted a wide variety of bushes about 20 undercup oak trees to keep the top of the hillside stable. We did have to put in some drainage though. water will tend to accumulate in the terrace and that additional pressure can make retaining walls fail...

back to mowers. It's possible to get a good quality commercial mower for around 9K...but the diesel mowers are always going to be expensive. If you stay with a zero turn, look for hydro drives that have the 12 mm drives. And at least 25 HP. I would say as a general rule of thumb, if your elevation is above 5 thousand feet, invest in an Electronically Fuel Injected Engine (efi) for gasoline engines. A standard diesel engine should perform better than a standard gasser, and definitely will if it has a turbo, but at great cost. which bring the question: is a diesel tractor mower an option to explore ?

 

[grumpyunk]

Does anyone know a company that makes a riding mower that has a better Trans Axle.?

Are there trans axles made that have a drain plug and a oil filter?

The Hydro-Gear 400506 356-0510 does not have a drain plug or a oil filter. When I first started having trouble I called Hydro-Gear and they asked if I had changed the trans fluid. I said no because the Sears manual said that the fluid does not have to be changed.

If I buy another mower I would like to have a drain plug and a oil filter on the trans axle!!!

If you wander over to mytractorforum.com and go to the forums, do a search for hydro. I know there were posts on that site referencing drain & refill and changing the filter. There was also a comment, from memory, that the filter MUST not be a generic cross referenced filter as the fluid direction of flow within the filter is reversed, so the media must be supported against pressure from the opposite direction.
They are out there, you just have to look. I think it was in this subforum:

Craftsman/Sears Forum

www.mytractorforum.com

But it may have been in zero turn or ???
It would be in a top-of-the-line model.
tom

 

[Cajun power]

upon seeing that incline and the size of it, I would not recommend an ordinary residential zero turn gasser. I think bertsmobile1 has the best advice...diesel mower..just realize that is going to be costly.

another idea besides the shrubs and berry trees he has suggested is to landscape (dirt work) that hill side into a series of terraces. It would give you several benefits:

1. erosion prevention/ground subsidence prevention/better drainage and water soil conditioning
2. easier to establish plants, trees, shrubs/bushes...ground cover
3. aesthetics

there are so many different ways to build terraces. In very steep inclines, and where there is heavy winter snow or lots of rain fall, it is advisable to use large stone and plan the excavation carefully (or concrete/block is stone is not available in your area). The idea is to create leveled terraces with strong retaining walls.

it would definitely be a big project, but doable if you had an excavator and the retaining wall materials and the time. In this way, you can grow something other than grass that requires mowing...like a very robust garden...it would of course attract all manner of animals and game too.

I've done this for a hunting camp in North Louisiana, that was on a large steep hill. We terraced an area of about 700 feet wide by 300 feet downslope. We grow alfalfa and sorghum to attract the deer to the property as well as lots of other native species of berries. In the upper terrace near the camp, we planted a wide variety of bushes about 20 undercup oak trees to keep the top of the hillside stable. We did have to put in some drainage though. water will tend to accumulate in the terrace and that additional pressure can make retaining walls fail...

back to mowers. It's possible to get a good quality commercial mower for around 9K...but the diesel mowers are always going to be expensive. If you stay with a zero turn, look for hydro drives that have the 12 mm drives. And at least 25 HP. I would say as a general rule of thumb, if your elevation is above 5 thousand feet, invest in an Electronically Fuel Injected Engine (efi) for gasoline engines. A standard diesel engine should perform better than a standard gasser, and definitely will if it has a turbo, but at great cost. which bring the question: is a diesel tractor mower an option to explore ?

Here is some additional info. First we start with a mower designed AROUND the best hydro drive.

ZT-4400® - High Efficient Commercial Drive - Hydro-Gear

The ZT-4400™ is a revolutionary design, built for heavy loads, improves operator control but also reduces vibration and noise.

www.hydro-gear.com

heavy-duty roller bearings, high-capacity thrust bearing for extended life, a high-efficiency 12cc pump, 16cc motor, and a beefy 1-3/8” axle shaft. (this hydrodrive has serviceable filters!....it's a commercial grade drive that will last a very long time...just keep up with the maintenance)

here is a zero turn that uses this specific hydrodrive AND offers several options for EFI gasoline engines that are known to be very hard working...the one in particular that I have is this: Kawasaki5400/6100 - 822cc, 31hp Air-Cooled V-Twin EVO781 EFI

Rebel Zero Turn Lawn Mower | Bad Boy Mowers

The Rebel Gas zero-turn lawn mower features five engine options and three deck sizes, making it the perfect mix of power and value.

badboymowers.com

This is just an example and shows the kind of engine and drives that you want out of a mower that will last a very long time and be easy to maintain. Not cheap...but definitely a good investment you can depend on.

There are many other brands that offer similar engine and hydro options to above: EXMARK, SCAG, HUSTLER, KUBOTA, FERRIS..(and probably some others, but I only mention these because I have experience with them and dealers are reputable in my area for them...)

if you look at diesel tractor mowers, with implement options, you are definitely going to get a commercial grade machine that can be used for many more other applications beyond mowing. But of course, a price points far above that of even these zero turns. These zero turns do only one thing...mow...some have towing capability but for very small loads and I would not really use them up and down hills, not even with the heavier duty hydro drives. And of course, tractors are going to be much heavier, and no zero turn capability, so you end up leaving tracks and tight turns can cause turf damage. it's all a tradeoff for one thing for another.

also noting: one of the most important mods I do with ALL my zero turns is a temp sensor in the oil port plug, wiring to a simple gauge on the control/instrument panel. I live in a very hot south louisiana where summer mowing can get well into the triple digits on the heat index. it's heat that kills these engines...So it's good to have a gauge that shows me what the operating temp is for the engine. If it approached a high heat cycle, I shut it down and let things cool down. I don't own water cooled engines only because the owner at the estate where I manage the property did not invest in them...when these mowers expire, I'll definitely recommend going with the water cooled engines. I do have a old vintage dixie chopper (silver eagle), that I call the "mini bush hog"...It's not water cooled but has an external oil radiator that is 12" x 12" that I rigged a simple electric fan to blow air across...generac engine...generac hyrodrives...I use it for the heavy duty cutting in all weather and there is no quit in that machine. Built like a tank...effective for fields and hills and with a 50 inch deck and 27 HP, it will blaze through nearly anything I drive over...big beefy short blades...the old school chain and pulley system for deck suspension...hell in the lower back...but it's gets on it.