EDIT: Anyone reading this please check out my newer thread regarding how to upgrade from this bushing system to bearings. The bushings need to be kept clean at a minimum and ideally switched to bearings. The below thread addresses this as well as has other good preventive ideas:
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...kwards-hrr216vla-to-bearing-conversion.57255/
This is my first post on this forum, but I've read some of Robert @ Honda's posts and I must say THANK YOU. I recently went through troubleshooting my HRR216K8VYA mower which had been having problems with the rear wheels locking up and not spinning backwards. Lots of searching tended to yield lots of conflicting messages as to how the system works, and random suggestions regarding what may actually fix the issue. Given that I've solved it on mine, I wanted to share what I did and found in the hopes that maybe it helps someone else with this issue.
The HRR216 K8 VYA model I have is about 3 - 4 years old, it has the grey smart drive paddles, and has the rotostop blade clutch. I believe most of the modern Hondas (without Hydrostatic transmissions) will be very similar in operation to mine, however I can't comment on anything other than the model I have.
Symptom: The mower increasingly got harder and harder to pull backwards, eventually getting so bad that the rear wheels would just lock up and the mower would be dragged across the lawn. ANNOYING AS CAN BE.
What I found:
1) Contrary to a lot of info online, the ratcheting drive wheel sprockets are NOT the problem. If these are locked up you will not hear clicking sounds when you push the mower forward with it turned off. Pulling the mower backwards will ALWAYS turn the driveshaft and the transmission. The wheels will lock when the transmission tilts and is tightened on the belt. Basically pulling the mower backwards with the self propelled disengaged means the belt connecting the crankshaft and transmission will not be under tension and will slip. The ratcheting drive gears are there to allow you to turn the mower while you've got the self propelled engaged. Essentially it allows each wheel to overrun the speed of the solid drive shaft.
2) Since pulling the mower backwards means that the entire driveline minus the belt must be able to spin freely, it's CRITICAL that all items in the driveline are able to move smoothly. Keep in mind the ratcheting gears in the wheels will be locked to drive shaft speed, so these really don't count, but they should still be cleaned.
What I did:
1) I pulled the transmission out, drained the oil from it and inspected it. I found I had a minor chip on one of the gear surfaces and lots of metal in the oil. I cleaned it all out, filled it back up with ATF (probably not recommended, I hear 10w-30 is the stuff, but I don't care - I wanted ATF) and put it back together. Despite the chipped tooth it still operated smoothly so I chose not to replace it at this time, though best practice would be to replace it. This did NOT resolve my issue, though I'm sure it's help keep the transmission from self destructing. Keep in mind my yard is absolutely horrible for hills, rocks, etc and I don't blame the transmission for the failure... My yard is just THAT bad.
2) Replaced the adjusters / the bushings. !!!! - I think this it the biggest key - !!!! Upon close inspection of the bushings that the driveshaft rides in, they were dry and scored. My theory is that as I mowed the driveshaft and bushings would heat up and seize up just enough to create drag on the driveshaft, not enough to stop it form going forward under self propelled drive power, but enough to add drag and keep the assembly from spinning freely when pulled backwards. I greased the new bushings very well when reassembling as I suspect they may not have been "full" when they left the factory. The fully assembled bushings / adjusters cost about $12 per side, you can press in / out new bushings for a lot less... but I just bought the whole assembly because I'm lazy and $12 just isn't that expensive.
3) Replaced the belt. I'm not sure if this really solved much, but my theory is that if the belts contact surface with the pulleys was starting to wear, it could in theory cause the belt to be more "grabby" than it normally is when new. Keep in mind the belt has a fiber / fabric type covering, so this may not be as crazy as it sounds. The belt is $5 so it seemed stupid not to replace it while there.
4) Cleaned the pulleys with brake parts cleaner. Seemed like a good idea to get the belt contact surfaces as clean and nice as possible. Remember the belt MUST SLIP to pull the lawn mower backwards.
Anyway, after doing all of the above my mower is working absolutely like new again. The above steps were attempted after cleaning / lubing the ratcheting gears in the wheels and adjusting the smart drive cable didn't work. Honestly I think mine had been going bad for a while because I can't remember the last time this thing rolled this smoothly - if ever. In short, look for drag in the driveline and REPLACE the driveshaft bushings.
Good luck and hopefully the above helps someone one day.
https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/thre...kwards-hrr216vla-to-bearing-conversion.57255/
This is my first post on this forum, but I've read some of Robert @ Honda's posts and I must say THANK YOU. I recently went through troubleshooting my HRR216K8VYA mower which had been having problems with the rear wheels locking up and not spinning backwards. Lots of searching tended to yield lots of conflicting messages as to how the system works, and random suggestions regarding what may actually fix the issue. Given that I've solved it on mine, I wanted to share what I did and found in the hopes that maybe it helps someone else with this issue.
The HRR216 K8 VYA model I have is about 3 - 4 years old, it has the grey smart drive paddles, and has the rotostop blade clutch. I believe most of the modern Hondas (without Hydrostatic transmissions) will be very similar in operation to mine, however I can't comment on anything other than the model I have.
Symptom: The mower increasingly got harder and harder to pull backwards, eventually getting so bad that the rear wheels would just lock up and the mower would be dragged across the lawn. ANNOYING AS CAN BE.
What I found:
1) Contrary to a lot of info online, the ratcheting drive wheel sprockets are NOT the problem. If these are locked up you will not hear clicking sounds when you push the mower forward with it turned off. Pulling the mower backwards will ALWAYS turn the driveshaft and the transmission. The wheels will lock when the transmission tilts and is tightened on the belt. Basically pulling the mower backwards with the self propelled disengaged means the belt connecting the crankshaft and transmission will not be under tension and will slip. The ratcheting drive gears are there to allow you to turn the mower while you've got the self propelled engaged. Essentially it allows each wheel to overrun the speed of the solid drive shaft.
2) Since pulling the mower backwards means that the entire driveline minus the belt must be able to spin freely, it's CRITICAL that all items in the driveline are able to move smoothly. Keep in mind the ratcheting gears in the wheels will be locked to drive shaft speed, so these really don't count, but they should still be cleaned.
What I did:
1) I pulled the transmission out, drained the oil from it and inspected it. I found I had a minor chip on one of the gear surfaces and lots of metal in the oil. I cleaned it all out, filled it back up with ATF (probably not recommended, I hear 10w-30 is the stuff, but I don't care - I wanted ATF) and put it back together. Despite the chipped tooth it still operated smoothly so I chose not to replace it at this time, though best practice would be to replace it. This did NOT resolve my issue, though I'm sure it's help keep the transmission from self destructing. Keep in mind my yard is absolutely horrible for hills, rocks, etc and I don't blame the transmission for the failure... My yard is just THAT bad.
2) Replaced the adjusters / the bushings. !!!! - I think this it the biggest key - !!!! Upon close inspection of the bushings that the driveshaft rides in, they were dry and scored. My theory is that as I mowed the driveshaft and bushings would heat up and seize up just enough to create drag on the driveshaft, not enough to stop it form going forward under self propelled drive power, but enough to add drag and keep the assembly from spinning freely when pulled backwards. I greased the new bushings very well when reassembling as I suspect they may not have been "full" when they left the factory. The fully assembled bushings / adjusters cost about $12 per side, you can press in / out new bushings for a lot less... but I just bought the whole assembly because I'm lazy and $12 just isn't that expensive.
3) Replaced the belt. I'm not sure if this really solved much, but my theory is that if the belts contact surface with the pulleys was starting to wear, it could in theory cause the belt to be more "grabby" than it normally is when new. Keep in mind the belt has a fiber / fabric type covering, so this may not be as crazy as it sounds. The belt is $5 so it seemed stupid not to replace it while there.
4) Cleaned the pulleys with brake parts cleaner. Seemed like a good idea to get the belt contact surfaces as clean and nice as possible. Remember the belt MUST SLIP to pull the lawn mower backwards.
Anyway, after doing all of the above my mower is working absolutely like new again. The above steps were attempted after cleaning / lubing the ratcheting gears in the wheels and adjusting the smart drive cable didn't work. Honestly I think mine had been going bad for a while because I can't remember the last time this thing rolled this smoothly - if ever. In short, look for drag in the driveline and REPLACE the driveshaft bushings.
Good luck and hopefully the above helps someone one day.
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