How to start and stop a drive-train

[Gampy]

Maybe you could adapt an electric PTO clutch, power it with a 12 V solar charger and have a marriage of both old and new technology . :biggrin:

How much power do the electric clutches draw? I think it's a lot. I wonder if a 12v lantern battery would power one? If a small battery would work I could hide it in an "old looking" box. My guess is that an electric clutch would take at least a lawnmower size battery to work.

 

[SeniorCitizen]

How much power do the electric clutches draw? I think it's a lot. I wonder if a 12v lantern battery would power one? If a small battery would work I could hide it in an "old looking" box. My guess is that an electric clutch would take at least a lawnmower size battery to work.

I don't have one but maybe we could get someone with an electric clutch mower to disconnect the battery and see how long it would mow with a fully charged battery in good condition . Or maybe put an amp meter on the wire .

 

[Gampy]

Simplicity baron shuttles from mid 70's have a cone pto that might work if you can find one. I have two old kick starts one from the late 20? And one from the late 30?. They don't have any numbers so I'm going by photos I've seen. When I get more time I'm going to do something with them.

There are a lot of old kick start engines... Are yours Maytags. Some of the old external valve Briggs engines are very valuable.

 

[Jamath3]

I don't know for sure what they are. One is missing the flywheel cover. The other is all together just no numbers. I will have to do more research on them to see what I have. They don't look like the ones you have on the video.

 

[Two-Stroke]

They are all 2 stroke they range in hp from 1/2 hp to 1 hp. There are about 6 models. The most sought after are the uprights (2 models) they make up both the low end and the high end of the hp range. I do not own any uprights.

There are 3 more models and then some variations on those. (the model 92 "most common" is a 3/4 hp single cylinder, it has several sizes of bases and also some variations on exhaust) (the model 82 is most like the 92 with the cylinder turned sideways) and my favorite (the model 72-D 5/8 hp twin with opposing cylinders that both fire at the same time - how weird is that?)

They are all hit and miss engines by means of ignition interruption. This means that when the flywheel slows down enough then the governor calls for the magneto to send a spark to the plug. For most folks timing is somewhat hard to set (especially on the Model 92). I know of people that have messed around with setting the points on a 92 for weeks and the thing still won't run. They are mostly kick start engines except for the uprights which are "spin the flywheel by hand" to start.

I have just put new rings and rebuilt 3 of the 4 engines shown in the video above. The normal oil gas mixture is 16 to 1 using 30 wt non detergent mineral base motor oil. Modern 2 cycle oil mix was not invented in those days and I don't think it works well in these engines. I do know it produces less smoke as you go about the under lubrication of your engine. On newly rebuild engines I add more oil until the rings wear in for the first couple of tank full's (thus the extra smoke in the video). However, some say that you can't put too much oil on a Maytag, and yes they are supposed to smoke. They all come with a long metal flex hose for the exhaust to be put out the window or away from the area. This is so the lucky housewife in 1920 who had moved up from a rub-board to a wringer washer wouldn't kill her family on wash day .

They are mostly cast iron which is why they are still around after about 100 years. There are some aluminum parts such as the flywheel and ignition system on some models. They are called "Maytag Multi-Motor" because after electricity became available in rural areas these gas engines were replaced on wringer washers with electric motors and farmers would use the old gas engines to power all sorts of stuff around the farm. (Corn shelters, corn grinders, bench grinders, ice cream freezers:licking:, water pumps, small 1000 w generators, lawn mowers, little tillers, and the list go on and on :thumbsup

The engines weigh about 65 lbs or so when naked. I bought some kind of 6.5 hp gas engine from Harbor Freight and it, the whole thing, is only about 5 or 6 lbs. I'll bet it won't be popping a hundred years from now. I'm not even sure it had any metal :laughing:

It takes me about 1 hr to take apart a Maytag, a couple of days in my electrolysis tank removing old paint, rust and stuff, a day or so painting the parts, and about a half day to put it back together. If it is stuck add 2 hrs on the break down. I always use new gaskets and rings and de-glaze the cylinder. I also put in new bushings using a shop press and I use a line reamer to make it all fit just right.

Now after all of this book..... the bottom line is that I have fun.... and it beats the heck out of just sitting and staring at Dancing with the Stars on TV. I have found this hobby to be rewarding especially when they crank on the first push with my hand on the kick petal. It's also fun to figure new stuff to power with these Maytags and different ways to hook it all up. Poke around on my other videos and I think there is one that is shown being started on the first push.

I live on a farm and for mowing grass I use an eXmark 52" - to me a nice machine and a tractor for the larger areas

AND YES I AM STILL LOOKING FOR THAT PULLEY CLUTCH SHOWN IN MY FIRST POST

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I'll keep my eyes peeled to one of those old Maytag two-strokes... definitely worth collecting.

I don't get the bit about not using modern two-cycle oil. From what I understand, it's superior in all respects compared to using a lubricant that's not specifically designed for that application. But there may be unique aspects of these Maytag engines so that logic doesn't apply to them.

On the clutch issue: have you looked at clutches from old motor scooters? Some of them (made before about the mid-1960s) had separate clutches between the engine and the (separate) gearbox.

 

[KennyV]

Hope to locate any thing I might have this wkend...
You won't be able to run an electric clutch with a dry cell lantern battery... You will need > 3+ amps... and you don't want to run them on low voltage, they will start slipping & overheat...
For the low horse power application you are working with, a hobby machinist could turn you out an old style lever clutch... ( would be a fun winter time shop project)... see various simple clutches in these YouTube clips... : Friction clutch 1 - YouTube
:smile:KennyV

 

[Gampy]

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. I'll keep my eyes peeled to one of those old Maytag two-strokes... definitely worth collecting.

I don't get the bit about not using modern two-cycle oil. From what I understand, it's superior in all respects compared to using a lubricant that's not specifically designed for that application. But there may be unique aspects of these Maytag engines so that logic doesn't apply to them.

On the clutch issue: have you looked at clutches from old motor scooters? Some of them (made before about the mid-1960s) had separate clutches between the engine and the (separate) gearbox.

Well about the oil... If you get two Maytag people together you will most likely get a disagreement on the oil issue. My thought is that it is all cast iron and it was designed for the old type 30 wt oil. That is what the specs call for. There is even a decal that came on all Maytag engines that states that the warranty is no good if you don't use Maytag Brand oil. (Looks like they wanted to sell oil :laughing: )

I think that the modern type 2-stroke oils were designed for much higher speeds and more aluminum parts... but that's just me. In most Maytag circles the oil issue has been reduced to "Use whatever you want" this cuts back on the endless oil issue. In one Maytag forum that I belong to, when someone asks about oil type and/or mixture, the first response is "here we go again" :laughing: Some Maytag people like lawnboy oil, some boat motor oil and some like a very expensive synthetic brand only available on the internet. I use the Auto Zone brand 30 wt ND mineral base which is also the cheapest oil they sell and I have had no problems.

About the motor scooter clutches.. I think most of then were centrifugal/friction type and would engage when the engine had an increase in rpm's. Maytags are a constant speed. The ones that I have vary Model 92's are 1100-1200 rpm's and Model 72's are around 1600 rpm's - no throttles.

Thanks
Gampy

 

[Gampy]

Hope to locate any thing I might have this wkend...
You won't be able to run an electric clutch with a dry cell lantern battery... You will need > 3+ amps... and you don't want to run them on low voltage, they will start slipping & overheat...
For the low horse power application you are working with, a hobby machinist could turn you out an old style lever clutch... ( would be a fun winter time shop project)... see various simple clutches in these YouTube clips... : Friction clutch 1 - YouTube
:smile:KennyV

Thanks - Friction Clutch #4 is more of what I had thought of
Friction clutch 4 - YouTube

 

[Gampy]

Here is another couple of videos of me at my shop table starting a Model 92 for the first time. I did turn over the flywheel a couple of times to get some gas up into the block but this was a first start. This Model 92 is not one that was shown with the 4 at one time thing.

Just to let the truth be known, I am older than I look and have 5 grandchildren one of which is 16. I have had a right shoulder replacement and a left hip replacement, and that little start thingie, did hurt my shoulder as I acted like nothing was wrong. The real reason for part 1 and part 2 was to cut out the little hissy-fit and "abusive language :ashamed: " and to not show me indicating to that engine that I thought it was number 1 by means of a hand signal :laughing:

part 1 = First Start of Maytag Model 92 part 1 - YouTube

part 2 = First Start of Maytag Model 92 part 2 - YouTube

 

[Two-Stroke]

Well about the oil... If you get two Maytag people together you will most likely get a disagreement on the oil issue. My thought is that it is all cast iron and it was designed for the old type 30 wt oil. That is what the specs call for. There is even a decal that came on all Maytag engines that states that the warranty is no good if you don't use Maytag Brand oil. (Looks like they wanted to sell oil :laughing: )

I think that the modern type 2-stroke oils were designed for much higher speeds and more aluminum parts... but that's just me. In most Maytag circles the oil issue has been reduced to "Use whatever you want" this cuts back on the endless oil issue. In one Maytag forum that I belong to, when someone asks about oil type and/or mixture, the first response is "here we go again" :laughing: Some Maytag people like lawnboy oil, some boat motor oil and some like a very expensive synthetic brand only available on the internet. I use the Auto Zone brand 30 wt ND mineral base which is also the cheapest oil they sell and I have had no problems.

About the motor scooter clutches.. I think most of then were centrifugal/friction type and would engage when the engine had an increase in rpm's. Maytags are a constant speed. The ones that I have vary Model 92's are 1100-1200 rpm's and Model 72's are around 1600 rpm's - no throttles.

Thanks
Gampy

The scooter clutches I'm thinking of were operated by a steel cable and a lever on the handlebars.

Could you give us a link to the Maytag forum you're talking about?

I'm glad KennyV saw this thread. When I first read your question, I thought, "KennyV would know this if anyone would." :thumbsup: