How to start and stop a drive-train

[Gampy]

I rebuild old Maytag 1/2 hp gas engines as a hobby. I want to power various things with them using v-belts. My problem is finding a way to start and stop the action without stopping the engine. As these engines are constant speed, a go-cart type centrifugal clutch won't work and I would like to find a way other than using an idler pulley to (make and break) the tension on the belt. I know that I can do this using an idler pulley, I'm just looking for a cooler and different way to do it.

At this time I am trying to power a corn grinder with one of my Maytag's. Some of the first old riding mowers had a small transmission (about the size of a wall mounted pencil sharpener) mounted on the deck to the right of the seat. As best as I can remember this had a forward, neutral and reverse. I am wondering if this might work. There is also a pulley type clutch that is mounted on a jack shaft. This pulley has a handle. When it is rotated it causes the pulley to engage and thus start to turn whatever you are powering. (This type of pulley may be a form of a sprag clutch) Most sprag clutches are made for industrial uses and are very expensive. I have seen these used to power ice cream freezers powered by John Deere hit and miss engines. The only supplier for these that I can find is asking over $399.00 for this pulley clutch. This would make the clutch cost more than the Maytag engine, the Corn Grinder and by speed reducing gearbox combined so it's a no-go on that.

In my case there would be a pulley on the Maytag and a belt that goes to a pulley on a jack shaft or to a speed reducing gearbox, then from there another belt to the drive pulley on the corn grinder. If the jack shaft is used then I would reduce the speed by the pulley sizes used.

Possibly some type of manual pto clutch would work. It can't be an electric clutch because there is no electric power associated with the Maytag engine. I am wondering if any of you have any other thoughts on how I can do what I want to do or if if you know of a supplier for a pulley clutch other than the guy that makes Ice Cream rigs for sale to companies that sell ice cream at outdoor events etc. I am not planning to sell anything so everything that I am doing is all outgo and no income. I am building this for a display associated with the antique engine club that I belong to.

Hopefully the attachments are of my corn grinder being laid out shown only with a gearbox and not a jack shaft and pictures of the kind of clutch I would like to find. However ANY other of your ideas are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

 

[SeniorCitizen]

I rebuild old Maytag 1/2 hp gas engines as a hobby. I want to power various things with them using v-belts. My problem is finding a way to start and stop the action without stopping the engine. As these engines are constant speed, a go-cart type centrifugal clutch won't work and I would like to find a way other than using an idler pulley to (make and break) the tension on the belt. I know that I can do this using an idler pulley, I'm just looking for a cooler and different way to do it.

At this time I am trying to power a corn grinder with one of my Maytag's. Some of the first old riding mowers had a small transmission (about the size of a wall mounted pencil sharpener) mounted on the deck to the right of the seat. As best as I can remember this had a forward, neutral and reverse. I am wondering if this might work. There is also a pulley type clutch that is mounted on a jack shaft. This pulley has a handle. When it is rotated it causes the pulley to engage and thus start to turn whatever you are powering. (This type of pulley may be a form of a sprag clutch) Most sprag clutches are made for industrial uses and are very expensive. I have seen these used to power ice cream freezers powered by John Deere hit and miss engines. The only supplier for these that I can find is asking over $399.00 for this pulley clutch. This would make the clutch cost more than the Maytag engine, the Corn Grinder and by speed reducing gearbox combined so it's a no-go on that.

In my case there would be a pulley on the Maytag and a belt that goes to a pulley on a jack shaft or to a speed reducing gearbox, then from there another belt to the drive pulley on the corn grinder. If the jack shaft is used then I would reduce the speed by the pulley sizes used.

Possibly some type of manual pto clutch would work. It can't be an electric clutch because there is no electric power associated with the Maytag engine. I am wondering if any of you have any other thoughts on how I can do what I want to do or if if you know of a supplier for a pulley clutch other than the guy that makes Ice Cream rigs for sale to companies that sell ice cream at outdoor events etc. I am not planning to sell anything so everything that I am doing is all outgo and no income. I am building this for a display associated with the antique engine club that I belong to.

Hopefully the attachments are of my corn grinder being laid out shown only with a gearbox and not a jack shaft and pictures of the kind of clutch I would like to find. However ANY other of your ideas are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

You have some fine looking equipment there. As a kid I remember a neighbor having a mower with a Maytag type engine . I remember thinking it strange it just fired when it needed to if I recall .

The two ideas I have to offer at the moment are just so simple they may not match your projects but they are definitely within most any budget . 1) Back in the 50s I had a roto tiller without a clutch as such . It was made so the engine would slide and tighten the belt when the pto lever was activated . To top it off it had a rather ingenious reverse but that story is for another day .

The second idea is pictured . I have 2 table saws and a band saw rigged this way . The reason the table saws work with this set up is they are so old the table tilts rather than the trunnion and arbor tilting . In the picture is a simple shallow 3 sided wooden ( plywood ) box / trough for the motor to set in .
It is built so the weight of the motor tensions the belt not dis-similar from later belt driven table saws . The front of the motor base ( not seen ) bumps the front of the box end which tilts the motor rear base slightly when the belt is tight . If more elevation is needed for the rear of the motor base a 1/4" or so wooden shim is inserted to scoot the motor back just a little .

The best part , or possibly not in the presence of those with sticky fingers , is that if the motor needs to be removed there are no fasteners . Just pick it up and go .

 

[KennyV]

WELCOME to LMF...
I have to agree with SandburRanch... the simple belt tightening drive is the most practical for small horse power applications....
also Belt & pulley rpm reductions are also the most economical solution. Gearing and mechanical clutch set ups are rather costly when compared with the total package costs...
I still have one of those 'grinder' mills, I had ran tons of grain through it back in the '50's... it has not been used for at least 50 years now.

I have not seen an old maytag gas engine for nearly as long... I bet I have a few of those buried out in the barn somewhere also. Good to see someone still using "old technology"...:thumbsup:
Myself, I do not mess 'those good old days'...
:smile:KennyV

 

[Gampy]

SandburRanch You remember right, some old Maytag engines did run lawn mowers. The Model 72 which was a twin was most commonly used on these mowers (I have rebuilt and own 5 or 6 of these twins.) The one that is pictured is a Model 92 which is a single cylinder and it is also a hit and miss engine by way of ignition interruption. So to say the least it doesn't run smoothly... it shakes and will even travel if put on the ground and left unattended. It did just fine as long as it was attached to a 300 lb. wringer washer. :laughing:

That being said, I wonder how well the weight of the engine (which is heavy) would work in the little trough. You do have me thinking... Perhaps some long rails that attach to the under side of the cross members that the engine is mounted on, which would be located just inside of the long frame runners and then slide against the inside of them. Then a long leaver at the kick start end to tighten and/or loosen the whole thing. Total control and not just left up to it's own weight.

I still would rather find that pulley clutch at a reasonable price. :thumbsup:

Thanks for your ideas.

KennyV Thanks also for your comments. If you get out to that old barn... take a look... I am always on the hunt for old Maytags in most any condition. I haven't ever bought one that was running. I would be happy to make an offer, just let me know.

 

[Gampy]

I have 4 of my Maytags running at the same time on my youtube channel. May be some kind of record :laughing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVNiSlTh5H8&feature=plcp

 

[KennyV]

take a look... I am always on the hunt for old Maytags in most any condition. I haven't ever bought one that was running. I would be happy to make an offer, just let me know.

I am going to sort through some stuff to find another fellow on here some electric motors for his John Deere electric 90... I should come across them while doing that...
if I find them & any maytag parts you can have them for shipping charges to get them to you... I'll let you know when I find anything... I'll never use them... Liked your youtube, Almost forgot what those things sound like.... Ha ha how could you forget that sound....
:smile:KennyV

 

[Two-Stroke]

Hey... this is a great thread. :thumbsup:

Grampy, I hope you become a regular member here.

Please tell me more about those Maytag engines. Two-stroke or four-stroke? Please tell us more. I'm a big fan of Maytag washing machines... for me, that brand ranks just a little below Lawn-Boy, Stihl and Jacobsen... but that just my opinion.

 

[Gampy]

Hey... this is a great thread. :thumbsup:

Grampy, I hope you become a regular member here.

Please tell me more about those Maytag engines. Two-stroke or four-stroke? Please tell us more. I'm a big fan of Maytag washing machines... for me, that brand ranks just a little below Lawn-Boy, Stihl and Jacobsen... but that just my opinion.

They are all 2 stroke they range in hp from 1/2 hp to 1 hp. There are about 6 models. The most sought after are the uprights (2 models) they make up both the low end and the high end of the hp range. I do not own any uprights.

There are 3 more models and then some variations on those. (the model 92 "most common" is a 3/4 hp single cylinder, it has several sizes of bases and also some variations on exhaust) (the model 82 is most like the 92 with the cylinder turned sideways) and my favorite (the model 72-D 5/8 hp twin with opposing cylinders that both fire at the same time - how weird is that?)

They are all hit and miss engines by means of ignition interruption. This means that when the flywheel slows down enough then the governor calls for the magneto to send a spark to the plug. For most folks timing is somewhat hard to set (especially on the Model 92). I know of people that have messed around with setting the points on a 92 for weeks and the thing still won't run. They are mostly kick start engines except for the uprights which are "spin the flywheel by hand" to start.

I have just put new rings and rebuilt 3 of the 4 engines shown in the video above. The normal oil gas mixture is 16 to 1 using 30 wt non detergent mineral base motor oil. Modern 2 cycle oil mix was not invented in those days and I don't think it works well in these engines. I do know it produces less smoke as you go about the under lubrication of your engine. On newly rebuild engines I add more oil until the rings wear in for the first couple of tank full's (thus the extra smoke in the video). However, some say that you can't put too much oil on a Maytag, and yes they are supposed to smoke. They all come with a long metal flex hose for the exhaust to be put out the window or away from the area. This is so the lucky housewife in 1920 who had moved up from a rub-board to a wringer washer wouldn't kill her family on wash day .

They are mostly cast iron which is why they are still around after about 100 years. There are some aluminum parts such as the flywheel and ignition system on some models. They are called "Maytag Multi-Motor" because after electricity became available in rural areas these gas engines were replaced on wringer washers with electric motors and farmers would use the old gas engines to power all sorts of stuff around the farm. (Corn shelters, corn grinders, bench grinders, ice cream freezers:licking:, water pumps, small 1000 w generators, lawn mowers, little tillers, and the list go on and on :thumbsup

The engines weigh about 65 lbs or so when naked. I bought some kind of 6.5 hp gas engine from Harbor Freight and it, the whole thing, is only about 5 or 6 lbs. I'll bet it won't be popping a hundred years from now. I'm not even sure it had any metal :laughing:

It takes me about 1 hr to take apart a Maytag, a couple of days in my electrolysis tank removing old paint, rust and stuff, a day or so painting the parts, and about a half day to put it back together. If it is stuck add 2 hrs on the break down. I always use new gaskets and rings and de-glaze the cylinder. I also put in new bushings using a shop press and I use a line reamer to make it all fit just right.

Now after all of this book..... the bottom line is that I have fun.... and it beats the heck out of just sitting and staring at Dancing with the Stars on TV. I have found this hobby to be rewarding especially when they crank on the first push with my hand on the kick petal. It's also fun to figure new stuff to power with these Maytags and different ways to hook it all up. Poke around on my other videos and I think there is one that is shown being started on the first push.

I live on a farm and for mowing grass I use an eXmark 52" - to me a nice machine and a tractor for the larger areas

AND YES I AM STILL LOOKING FOR THAT PULLEY CLUTCH SHOWN IN MY FIRST POST

 

[SeniorCitizen]

Maybe you could adapt an electric PTO clutch, power it with a 12 V solar charger and have a marriage of both old and new technology . :biggrin:

 

[Jamath3]

Simplicity baron shuttles from mid 70's have a cone pto that might work if you can find one. I have two old kick starts one from the late 20? And one from the late 30?. They don't have any numbers so I'm going by photos I've seen. When I get more time I'm going to do something with them.