Honda HRB216TDA can barely pull itself forward

[soundchasm]

"I looked at pictures of the transmission... it looks pretty simple inside. I think I would try turning the trans pulley while holding the wheel or drive shaft to see if you can get it to slip. If one gear slips, try another, I think it’s got 3 gear sets if the pictures I saw were correct. Considering how expensive they are I wouldn’t buy a new one until you KNOW yours is bad. From what I also read, cable problems are very common. Maybe grab the end of the cable with vice grips to see if pulling it “more” than it’s adjustment range gets it to move. Also maybe carefully open the trans and look around. Stripped gears should be pretty obvious. I think there is a shift fork / pins that engage each gear set. "

There is 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I got nowhere in all three gears. I'll go give the cable one hell of a tug to see if that works. Since none of the gears work, it's apparently not a single gear.

The trans can be had for just north of $100, so that's not too bad. I'd hate to take it out, take it apart, discover a problem, and then not have a replacement. Of course I'd love to take one apart and see what's in there.

What I recall from the test was that the handle to engage the drive seemed extreeeeemly soft. It never "bit", if you know what I mean.

In terms of an unexpected benefit, when I was cleaning the assembly that does the height adjustment, getting all the oxidation and crap off that lever really freed up the adjusting mechanism. It moves easily now and before I had to use pliers and screwdrivers to get the thing to move. So we've got one point on the scoreboard so far. ;-)

Thank you. We're gaining on it, but just more slowly than we thought at first.

 

[soundchasm]

I'll have to take off the guard underneath again to gain access to the pulley connected to the transmission. I'll grab a wheel and try to spin the pulley. If it slips (or whatever we don't want) in any gear, or has a ridiculous amount of play, then maybe we can conclude it's worn out.

I found an article describing the transmission gears as hardened steel and unlikely to wear out, at least in a 215 series. Maybe it's still the cable. On the shortest adjustment, I don't think I was able to budge it at all using a vise grip wrench. And there was no distinct "bite" when engaging the drive. Still very soft.

I think I'll order a drive cable and transmission. I'll try replacing the cable first, and if that works, I'll send the trans back. If not, I've got the new transmission,and I'm "only" doing the labor twice.

But, truth be told, I already shortened that drive cable by cutting off the "U" where it attaches to the lever, and bending in a new "U" to attach. That should have taken care of any slack problems, I'd think. Logically, given a new transmission, I'd need to adjust "my" cable to the loosest setting.

The article below also details adjusting the transmission shift cable. Might be something there. Will check soon.

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Honda-Harmony-215-Transmission-Problems

This is all very interesting to me and it may be next week before I get back to it.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Briantii]

I'll have to take off the guard underneath again to gain access to the pulley connected to the transmission. I'll grab a wheel and try to spin the pulley. If it slips (or whatever we don't want) in any gear, or has a ridiculous amount of play, then maybe we can conclude it's worn out.

I found an article describing the transmission gears as hardened steel and unlikely to wear out, at least in a 215 series. Maybe it's still the cable. On the shortest adjustment, I don't think I was able to budge it at all using a vise grip wrench. And there was no distinct "bite" when engaging the drive. Still very soft.

I think I'll order a drive cable and transmission. I'll try replacing the cable first, and if that works, I'll send the trans back. If not, I've got the new transmission,and I'm "only" doing the labor twice.

But, truth be told, I already shortened that drive cable by cutting off the "U" where it attaches to the lever, and bending in a new "U" to attach. That should have taken care of any slack problems, I'd think. Logically, given a new transmission, I'd need to adjust "my" cable to the loosest setting.

The article below also details adjusting the transmission shift cable. Might be something there. Will check soon.

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Honda-Harmony-215-Transmission-Problems

This is all very interesting to me and it may be next week before I get back to it.
Thanks,
Greg

Interesting article and maybe another thing to check - make sure the transmission isn’t moving around on the axel shaft too. I could be wrong, but my gut still has this feeling it’s not the transmission... though the input gear could be stripped. Also maybe the pulley could slip on the input shaft.

Big thing I’d try to figure out is where the slip is occurring. If it’s slipping at the belt / pulley then you may need to focus on the cable and the pivot of the transmission which tensions the belt. You might also have the wrong belt (too big). You might also have the cable attached to the wrong point on the trans.

If the slip occurs between the transmission input pulley and the output axel shafts, then yeah... probably time for a transmission or at least some creative tear down and repairs of it.

If the slip occurs between the wheels and the axel shaft, then it’s time to look at the gears in the wheels again.

Most of this I think can be simulated by grabbing components and seeing if you can turn them / cause a slip with your hands. Spark plug disconnected obviously.

I think yours has roto stop. I’d also be tempted to put it blocks, take the bottom guard off, put some camera below it and then run it with the blade disengaged. Try to video the system while a helper engages the self propelled and you use something to stop the wheel and induce the slip. I would ONLY consider this with the roto stop to keep the blade disengaged AND you keep all hands, blocks, etc WELL CLEAR of the cutting deck. Aka, be VERY careful with this... but I’d be tempted with the right precautions as it may show exactly what’s going on in a video.

Glad to hear the adjusters are working better. It’s amazing how well these work when everything is perfect.

 

[soundchasm]

Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)

 

[rePhil]

Order a transmission and that's what you will get. Everything else, pulley, key, nut, any bolts, snap rings etc, need to be ordered separately.
It's gets pricey fast. But there is a certain satisfaction in repairing something that is designed to be repaired and has a long service life.

Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)

 

[Briantii]

Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)

Looks to me in the diagram that the pulley is included with the transmission but can be ordered separately too. It looks like the transmission only comes with the pulley attached.

Good luck and let us know how it goes when you're able to get back to it

 

[rePhil]

I agree. According to that diagram the pulley is included

Looks to me in the diagram that the pulley is included with the transmission but can be ordered separately too. It looks like the transmission only comes with the pulley attached.

Good luck and let us know how it goes when you're able to get back to it

 

[soundchasm]

OK, there was a rare coincidence of ambition and opportunity today.

I've got the disassembly down to four sockets and the circlip pliers. Came apart pretty quickly. My first impression is that there will be a clearance issue getting the transmission out in the future, because the pulley kind of bumps into the deck when you're down to the last inch or two, but maybe with the cables loose it'll rotate enough to clear.

With the drive lever NOT engaged, the pulley turns freely, perhaps as expected.

With the drive lever engaged, my fingers weren't quite strong enough to hold the axle still while I rotated the pulley. Spinning the pulley in either direction turns the axle appropriately. I clamped vise grips on the axle, spun the driven pulley, and the vise grips swung until they hit the deck. Then I was EASILY still able to turn the pulley. Same result going the other way.

Seems like there was maybe a 1/4 turn of the pulley before the axle started to move. BUT, something is slipping big time.

I think I'll order a new transmission and just get after it. I'd love to take the old one apart, but considering the mower is 2001 and I paid $150 for it used 7-10 years ago, I'm not unhappy.

I'm one of the world's worst mechanics, so this has been both frustrating and fun at the same time. I do know a ringer in the mechanical department. He's never disassembled something he didn't understand afterwards. Trouble is that he's 60 miles away one-way. Methinks the most expeditious course of action is to replace the transmission and then take the old one out to him for fun. We'll both learn something.

I'll keep you guys posted, but there may be a week for delivery time, unless somebody has an additional insight. I didn't try to figure out how the cables are attached. One appears to be a fairly straight-forward clip, but I can't see the other.

Thanks,
Greg

PS - I'd have loved to stick a camera under that thing when it's running!!
PS PS - When I say the driven pulley is turning, I mean it is turning the shaft that goes into the tranny. The pulley connection to the shaft is 100%.

 

[Briantii]

OK, there was a rare coincidence of ambition and opportunity today.

I've got the disassembly down to four sockets and the circlip pliers. Came apart pretty quickly. My first impression is that there will be a clearance issue getting the transmission out in the future, because the pulley kind of bumps into the deck when you're down to the last inch or two, but maybe with the cables loose it'll rotate enough to clear.

With the drive lever NOT engaged, the pulley turns freely, perhaps as expected.

With the drive lever engaged, my fingers weren't quite strong enough to hold the axle still while I rotated the pulley. Spinning the pulley in either direction turns the axle appropriately. I clamped vise grips on the axle, spun the driven pulley, and the vise grips swung until they hit the deck. Then I was EASILY still able to turn the pulley. Same result going the other way.

Seems like there was maybe a 1/4 turn of the pulley before the axle started to move. BUT, something is slipping big time.

I think I'll order a new transmission and just get after it. I'd love to take the old one apart, but considering the mower is 2001 and I paid $150 for it used 7-10 years ago, I'm not unhappy.

I'm one of the world's worst mechanics, so this has been both frustrating and fun at the same time. I do know a ringer in the mechanical department. He's never disassembled something he didn't understand afterwards. Trouble is that he's 60 miles away one-way. Methinks the most expeditious course of action is to replace the transmission and then take the old one out to him for fun. We'll both learn something.

I'll keep you guys posted, but there may be a week for delivery time, unless somebody has an additional insight. I didn't try to figure out how the cables are attached. One appears to be a fairly straight-forward clip, but I can't see the other.

Thanks,
Greg

PS - I'd have loved to stick a camera under that thing when it's running!!
PS PS - When I say the driven pulley is turning, I mean it is turning the shaft that goes into the tranny. The pulley connection to the shaft is 100%.

Wow, OK... well slipping in the transmission is slipping within the transmission. Guess it's time for a new one of those. Great work staying on it and fighting through the issues. It'll be nice when it's like new again.

 

[soundchasm]

Wow, OK... well slipping in the transmission is slipping within the transmission. Guess it's time for a new one of those. Great work staying on it and fighting through the issues. It'll be nice when it's like new again.

It's an education and confronting my worst fears and weaknesses, so it's cool in a way. And it's an anti-establishment move to fix something instead of replace it, and that makes me happy. This also puts me into the minority, and I kind of like that. And no one is watching me do this, so that saves a lot of laughter and groaning from the peanut gallery when I forget the thing that goes on first.

My best guitar amps are from 1964 and 1965, and the amps work for a living. My oldest guitar is from 1978. My Taco is a 2002, and looks and runs fantastic (except for the rusting frame!!). When I was hanging out with my "mechanical ringer", he looked at me and said "You don't buy something, you adopt it!" I think my proclivity for not replacing things is proportional to my dislike of shopping for new things. When something does the dang job correctly, let's try saving it.

The arrival date for the parts is 9/3-9/6. It may be the week of the 9th that I try the next step. The Internet is a fabulous thing. Glad I found this forum. Greatly appreciate the help and encouragement. I'm susceptible to peer pressure, but luckily that includes the good kind!

Thanks.