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Honda HRB216TDA can barely pull itself forward

#1

S

soundchasm

Hello All,

First post. I have been very happy with this Honda mower until the last couple of years, and 2018 has been, shall we say, problematic.

I sent oil off for Used Oil Analysis and the lab was really impressed with how well the engine was wearing. The engine was manufactured in 2001. I really don't recall when I bought it. 2010, 2012??? The lab said it was a very good sample.

To cut to the chase, in 2018 the mower was barely able to drag itself forward. Level ground was OK, but a hill was 90% me and 10% mower, if that.
I replaced the belt drive pulley and belt and the mower was a champ for one or two cycles. Then it seemed as things heated up the ability to drive the wheels simply flagged out.

Then I go back to complete "drive" anemia for a cycle. Read about adjusting the cable. Did that and the mower was a champ again for about 100' or five minutes.

When I had the wheels off previously everything there looked fine. I have the "locking up when pulling backwards" problem but I think that's unrelated. I'll get to it...

Do I need to order a new transmission? Given the age, I've got no problem with that. If I get another 17 years out of it, it'll be the last mower I ever buy.

Thanks in advance,
Greg in Dayton, OH


#2

B

Briantii

Assuming it works like mine and most others I've seen, you may actually want to fix the pulling backwards issue first. When you pull backwards any resistance in the system will be evident. That same resistance must be overcome by the drive system when moving forward under self propelled. When just pushing it forward with no self propelled, it bypasses the transmission and drive shaft due to the ratcheting pinion gears that are in each wheel. Hopefully that makes some sense, sadly the pulling backwards issue is indicative of a larger problem, but is typically only NOTICED when pulling backwards since the self propelled typically can over power the resistance.


#3

R

rePhil

Where's Robert@Honda when you need him? I really wish he would come back. I don't have all the answers and we don't share the same model, but searches will reveal a lot of good information.
Here's a schematic from where I have been sourcing parts. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer. https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

Here's a youtube about locking rear wheels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubnpTirPBu4

Some things I have discovered while servicing my own transmission, are that HONDA HST oil is the recommended oil. I could not source it locally, so I purchased online. The other thing is to inspect the bushings and seals located in the adjusting arms. I can't locate the source now but I remember reading that a sloppy fit here is a possible cause of transmission failure. Whether right to wrong, mine were bad. I replaced the arms and plates. Also get everything you think will need at once, like snap rings etc. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


#4

S

soundchasm

Briantii said:
Assuming it works like mine and most others I've seen, you may actually want to fix the pulling backwards issue first. When you pull backwards any resistance in the system will be evident. That same resistance must be overcome by the drive system when moving forward under self propelled. When just pushing it forward with no self propelled, it bypasses the transmission and drive shaft due to the ratcheting pinion gears that are in each wheel. Hopefully that makes some sense, sadly the pulling backwards issue is indicative of a larger problem, but is typically only NOTICED when pulling backwards since the self propelled typically can over power the resistance.
Click to expand...

Wow, that's a thought that hadn't occurred to me. I never get the impression that I am free-wheeling when I push the mower forward before I start it.

There are precious few areas where my skill level is exceptional, and I am positively remedial concerning things mechanical. I can generally do something by trying to do it, then having to re-do it, and maybe re-do it again, finish it up, and then spot a washer that ought to go somewhere...

I need to go get one of those tools for removing circlips(?) and set up a net to catch it when it goes flying. ;-)

THANKS!


#5

S

soundchasm

rePhil said:
Where's * when you need him? I really wish he would come back. I don't have all the answers and we don't share the same model, but searches will reveal a lot of good information.
Here's a schematic from where I have been sourcing parts. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer.

Here's a youtube about locking rear wheels:
Some things I have discovered while servicing my own transmission, are that HONDA HST oil is the recommended oil. I could not source it locally, so I purchased online. The other thing is to inspect the bushings and seals located in the adjusting arms. I can't locate the source now but I remember reading that a sloppy fit here is a possible cause of transmission failure. Whether right to wrong, mine were bad. I replaced the arms and plates. Also get everything you think will need at once, like snap rings etc. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...


Hey, that's a great source for parts. The tranny is a buck and a quarter at ereplacementparts. I know next to nothing about the transmission. If I can get the thing out, more will be revealed, I'm sure. I recall that it was mainly luck that got a spring reattached when I did the pulley! ;-)

And I have watched that very video a couple of times searching for any solution that avoided removing the transmission. :->

Thank you!

Thanks!

PS - Had to edit out the links. I can't post links until I have a total of five posts. Now that's funny.


#6

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Wow, that's a thought that hadn't occurred to me. I never get the impression that I am free-wheeling when I push the mower forward before I start it.

There are precious few areas where my skill level is exceptional, and I am positively remedial concerning things mechanical. I can generally do something by trying to do it, then having to re-do it, and maybe re-do it again, finish it up, and then spot a washer that ought to go somewhere...

I need to go get one of those tools for removing circlips(?) and set up a net to catch it when it goes flying. ;-)

THANKS!
Click to expand...

Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hpe/505ce3e5f870022d24bdbae5/rear-wheel

Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.


#7

S

soundchasm

Briantii said:
Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.



Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.
Click to expand...

"Same annoying design" - that's great!! Well, not great that we have to deal with it, but at least there's some dark humor to be found.

OK, circlip pliers tomorrow, and then we shall see what we shall see!

Thanks.


#8

S

soundchasm

Briantii said:
Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.



Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.
Click to expand...

I appreciate you having a picture to look at. That really helps.

I got a bunch of the mower apart. Methinks the video glossed over juuuuust a bit of detail getting the transmission out. I've slept since then, but I think I-
took off the wheels
took off the blade
took the circlips off on the inside of the deck.
took off the cover underneath
pried the belt off the drive pulley (just spun it off, no violence)
Got the spring off the transmission


THEN the axle was somewhat free. Still have cables connecting the thing.

My bushings are two short halves and not one piece. I have a good selection of grits here. I think I'll spend more time with the fine grits and finish it off with 000 steel wool.

I'll sand the axle in place. It'll be a little harder and I reckon I'll learn how to disconnect it if I replace the transmission.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Greg


#9

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
I appreciate you having a picture to look at. That really helps.

I got a bunch of the mower apart. Methinks the video glossed over juuuuust a bit of detail getting the transmission out. I've slept since then, but I think I-
took off the wheels
took off the blade
took the circlips off on the inside of the deck.
took off the cover underneath
pried the belt off the drive pulley (just spun it off, no violence)
Got the spring off the transmission


THEN the axle was somewhat free. Still have cables connecting the thing.

My bushings are two short halves and not one piece. I have a good selection of grits here. I think I'll spend more time with the fine grits and finish it off with 000 steel wool.

I'll sand the axle in place. It'll be a little harder and I reckon I'll learn how to disconnect it if I replace the transmission.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Greg
Click to expand...

No problem, I’d absolutely leave the transmission in place unless I had to remove it. Obviously be sure to check belt condition and see how the trans turns without the bushings. Hopefully smooth. You’re right, most of the videos gloss over some steps that are required to have the whole make sense. Just go slow, take pictures, notes and / or look at the parts diagrams and you should be ok. It’s annoying, but gets easier the more times you do it. Sadly if you plan on keeping it for a while this probably won’t be the only time you have to do it.


#10

S

soundchasm

Quick shot of the difference is gear wear. I may fiddle and see if I can turn one around. Who knows?

DSCN1755.jpgDSCN1756.jpg


#11

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Quick shot of the difference is gear wear. I may fiddle and see if I can turn one around. Who knows?

View attachment 39766View attachment 39767
Click to expand...

It won’t right if you put it on backwards. Maybe swap sides... but really I’d just replace it since the one on the right looks like it is cracked.


#12

S

soundchasm

The one on the right isn't cracked that I can see. It's just completely worn compared to the other one.

I cleaned the axle and the bushings turn freely. Fought the circlips and only had one really close call, so to speak.

But as I'm putting the second rear wheel on, something has gone wonky. The deck may be "sprung" just slightly enough that I can't put on the first circlip on the outside after the round plastic wheel guard. That means no washer, circlip, gear/key, washer, circlip.

I actually had to get a C-clamp to squeeze things a little to get the washer and circlip attached on the transmission side. It's be nice to get it back together and see if it works. I can always replace the gear as soon as I get a chance to get one.

Thanks and will keep you posted.


#13

S

soundchasm

"No problem, I’d absolutely leave the transmission in place unless I had to remove it. Obviously be sure to check belt condition and see how the trans turns without the bushings. Hopefully smooth. You’re right, most of the videos gloss over some steps that are required to have the whole make sense. Just go slow, take pictures, notes and / or look at the parts diagrams and you should be ok. It’s annoying, but gets easier the more times you do it. Sadly if you plan on keeping it for a while this probably won’t be the only time you have to do it. "

What I did previously was replace the belt and drive pulley. That worked really well for a cycle or two. Then I adjusted the drive cable, and I think it's pretty doggone tight. Concerning the free axle and transmission, I can't get a sense of if its hosed or not. I wouldn't call its rotation "free-wheeling" or anything like that. I've got no baseline other than today to compare to.

I think I screwed up somewhere in reassembly. It's also possible that the axle shrunk considerably. I'll give it a fresh look on Monday.

Unfortunately, though I didn't test during disassembly, I didn't see obvious corrosion. The axle looked pretty good. But I will confirm that the bushings certainly spin freely now.
We'll see where this all leads after reassembly.
Thanks,
Greg


#14

R

rePhil

The transmission has enough movement to allow everything to go back together. Grab it and see if it will slide enough to allow everything to go back together


#15

S

soundchasm

rePhil said:
The transmission has enough movement to allow everything to go back together. Grab it and see if it will slide enough to allow everything to go back together
Click to expand...

Well, as you might have expected, Honda engineering doesn't shrink and swell to a great extent. I had a washer in the wrong place. Got that straight and it wasn't too bad.

That dang spring for the pulley is Satan's own invention, though. What I finally did (and this might help somebody [or it's already well-known]), was roll the belt off the drive pulley to the blade side to make some slack. Then it was close. Then my eyeballs told my giant alien brain that the drive shaft was narrower on the other side. I rolled the belt to that side and then attaching the spring was duck soup. But why duck soup? Is it easy because they're already in water? I don't get it.

It rolls backwards freely now. I haven't started it, but here's why.

1. It's late and the wife already thinks I'm crazy
2. I rolled the mower onto the air filter side not knowing that oil will come out. It came out.

I've got a new air filter and I'm getting ready to refill the oil. Should I do anything to mitigate that before I refill and start the engine?

Thanks,
Greg


#16

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Well, as you might have expected, Honda engineering doesn't shrink and swell to a great extent. I had a washer in the wrong place. Got that straight and it wasn't too bad.

That dang spring for the pulley is Satan's own invention, though. What I finally did (and this might help somebody [or it's already well-known]), was roll the belt off the drive pulley to the blade side to make some slack. Then it was close. Then my eyeballs told my giant alien brain that the drive shaft was narrower on the other side. I rolled the belt to that side and then attaching the spring was duck soup. But why duck soup? Is it easy because they're already in water? I don't get it.

It rolls backwards freely now. I haven't started it, but here's why.

1. It's late and the wife already thinks I'm crazy
2. I rolled the mower onto the air filter side not knowing that oil will come out. It came out.

I've got a new air filter and I'm getting ready to refill the oil. Should I do anything to mitigate that before I refill and start the engine?

Thanks,
Greg
Click to expand...

Sounds great! I'd just get the new filter in and start it... also make sure your level is OK and if you're paranoid you can pull the spark plug out first and pull it through to make sure none got in the cylinder, but I REALLY doubt that. Hopefully this leaves you in good shape. Being able to pull it backwards indicates to me you made some good progress - hopefully it's enough to make the forward work better!

Thanks for the update and can't wait to hear how it works out!


#17

S

soundchasm

Well rats. Filled the oil, cleaned the air filter housing and replaced filter. Started mower with a shot of starter fluid.

Waited 4-5 minutes for the oil to burn off. Engine stabilized and exhaust clear. Squeezed the drive handle and nothing. Began adjusting the cable and put it at the shortest adjustment (I think). That's with the shortest amount of threads on the operator side, and the most threads pointing towards the mower.

Lifting the rear end and the wheels do spin in the forward direction, but set the mower down and it's not enough to do anything.

Rolling backwards is effortless.

I'm not sure what the next move is. Any thoughts?

I checked carefully and I don't have any parts left over like I do on most mechanical repairs. ;->

Thanks,
Greg


#18

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Well rats. Filled the oil, cleaned the air filter housing and replaced filter. Started mower with a shot of starter fluid.

Waited 4-5 minutes for the oil to burn off. Engine stabilized and exhaust clear. Squeezed the drive handle and nothing. Began adjusting the cable and put it at the shortest adjustment (I think). That's with the shortest amount of threads on the operator side, and the most threads pointing towards the mower.

Lifting the rear end and the wheels do spin in the forward direction, but set the mower down and it's not enough to do anything.

Rolling backwards is effortless.

I'm not sure what the next move is. Any thoughts?

I checked carefully and I don't have any parts left over like I do on most mechanical repairs. ;->

Thanks,
Greg
Click to expand...

Ugh! Was hoping for good news. Did you change or move the pinion gears at all? Does it click / ratchet when you push it forward? It should NOT click going backwards and pushing forward should be easier than pulling backwards in all cases. I could see your problem occurring if the gears were backwards. (Ratcheting / clicking when pulling back)


#19

S

soundchasm

Briantii said:
Ugh! Was hoping for good news. Did you change or move the pinion gears at all? Does it click / ratchet when you push it forward? It should NOT click going backwards and pushing forward should be easier than pulling backwards in all cases. I could see your problem occurring if the gears were backwards. (Ratcheting / clicking when pulling back)
Click to expand...

Well, this is the process of elimination, right? So a poopy result has a certain poetic justice to it. ;-)

Backwards is effortless. Frontwards I get the click. During reassembly, with the mower on its side, if I spun the blade the rear wheels would move.

I have not the slightest idea of what's in that transmission or how one works. Is it possible that there are no teeth left on the gears in there and it is truly worn out?

The spring always goes on with a bit of a bang, but I didn't see any obvious carnage as a result.

Unless I hear otherwise, I'll order a new transmission tonight or tomorrow. I don't think it could "only" be a stretched cable, but I'll order a new cable to go with the transmission.

I appreciate all the help. Now if a new tranny doesn't fix it, then I don't know what I'm going to do (yes I do - I'll need a new mower!). Thanks!


#20

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Well, this is the process of elimination, right? So a poopy result has a certain poetic justice to it. ;-)

Backwards is effortless. Frontwards I get the click. During reassembly, with the mower on its side, if I spun the blade the rear wheels would move.

I have not the slightest idea of what's in that transmission or how one works. Is it possible that there are no teeth left on the gears in there and it is truly worn out?

The spring always goes on with a bit of a bang, but I didn't see any obvious carnage as a result.

Unless I hear otherwise, I'll order a new transmission tonight or tomorrow. I don't think it could "only" be a stretched cable, but I'll order a new cable to go with the transmission.

I appreciate all the help. Now if a new tranny doesn't fix it, then I don't know what I'm going to do (yes I do - I'll need a new mower!). Thanks!
Click to expand...

I looked at pictures of the transmission... it looks pretty simple inside. I think I would try turning the trans pulley while holding the wheel or drive shaft to see if you can get it to slip. If one gear slips, try another, I think it’s got 3 gear sets if the pictures I saw were correct. Considering how expensive they are I wouldn’t buy a new one until you KNOW yours is bad. From what I also read, cable problems are very common. Maybe grab the end of the cable with vice grips to see if pulling it “more” than it’s adjustment range gets it to move. Also maybe carefully open the trans and look around. Stripped gears should be pretty obvious. I think there is a shift fork / pins that engage each gear set.


#21

S

soundchasm

"I looked at pictures of the transmission... it looks pretty simple inside. I think I would try turning the trans pulley while holding the wheel or drive shaft to see if you can get it to slip. If one gear slips, try another, I think it’s got 3 gear sets if the pictures I saw were correct. Considering how expensive they are I wouldn’t buy a new one until you KNOW yours is bad. From what I also read, cable problems are very common. Maybe grab the end of the cable with vice grips to see if pulling it “more” than it’s adjustment range gets it to move. Also maybe carefully open the trans and look around. Stripped gears should be pretty obvious. I think there is a shift fork / pins that engage each gear set. "

There is 1st, 2nd and 3rd. I got nowhere in all three gears. I'll go give the cable one hell of a tug to see if that works. Since none of the gears work, it's apparently not a single gear.

The trans can be had for just north of $100, so that's not too bad. I'd hate to take it out, take it apart, discover a problem, and then not have a replacement. Of course I'd love to take one apart and see what's in there.

What I recall from the test was that the handle to engage the drive seemed extreeeeemly soft. It never "bit", if you know what I mean.

In terms of an unexpected benefit, when I was cleaning the assembly that does the height adjustment, getting all the oxidation and crap off that lever really freed up the adjusting mechanism. It moves easily now and before I had to use pliers and screwdrivers to get the thing to move. So we've got one point on the scoreboard so far. ;-)

Thank you. We're gaining on it, but just more slowly than we thought at first.


#22

S

soundchasm

I'll have to take off the guard underneath again to gain access to the pulley connected to the transmission. I'll grab a wheel and try to spin the pulley. If it slips (or whatever we don't want) in any gear, or has a ridiculous amount of play, then maybe we can conclude it's worn out.

I found an article describing the transmission gears as hardened steel and unlikely to wear out, at least in a 215 series. Maybe it's still the cable. On the shortest adjustment, I don't think I was able to budge it at all using a vise grip wrench. And there was no distinct "bite" when engaging the drive. Still very soft.

I think I'll order a drive cable and transmission. I'll try replacing the cable first, and if that works, I'll send the trans back. If not, I've got the new transmission,and I'm "only" doing the labor twice.

But, truth be told, I already shortened that drive cable by cutting off the "U" where it attaches to the lever, and bending in a new "U" to attach. That should have taken care of any slack problems, I'd think. Logically, given a new transmission, I'd need to adjust "my" cable to the loosest setting.

The article below also details adjusting the transmission shift cable. Might be something there. Will check soon.

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Honda-Harmony-215-Transmission-Problems

This is all very interesting to me and it may be next week before I get back to it.
Thanks,
Greg


#23

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
I'll have to take off the guard underneath again to gain access to the pulley connected to the transmission. I'll grab a wheel and try to spin the pulley. If it slips (or whatever we don't want) in any gear, or has a ridiculous amount of play, then maybe we can conclude it's worn out.

I found an article describing the transmission gears as hardened steel and unlikely to wear out, at least in a 215 series. Maybe it's still the cable. On the shortest adjustment, I don't think I was able to budge it at all using a vise grip wrench. And there was no distinct "bite" when engaging the drive. Still very soft.

I think I'll order a drive cable and transmission. I'll try replacing the cable first, and if that works, I'll send the trans back. If not, I've got the new transmission,and I'm "only" doing the labor twice.

But, truth be told, I already shortened that drive cable by cutting off the "U" where it attaches to the lever, and bending in a new "U" to attach. That should have taken care of any slack problems, I'd think. Logically, given a new transmission, I'd need to adjust "my" cable to the loosest setting.

The article below also details adjusting the transmission shift cable. Might be something there. Will check soon.

https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Honda-Harmony-215-Transmission-Problems

This is all very interesting to me and it may be next week before I get back to it.
Thanks,
Greg
Click to expand...

Interesting article and maybe another thing to check - make sure the transmission isn’t moving around on the axel shaft too. I could be wrong, but my gut still has this feeling it’s not the transmission... though the input gear could be stripped. Also maybe the pulley could slip on the input shaft.

Big thing I’d try to figure out is where the slip is occurring. If it’s slipping at the belt / pulley then you may need to focus on the cable and the pivot of the transmission which tensions the belt. You might also have the wrong belt (too big). You might also have the cable attached to the wrong point on the trans.

If the slip occurs between the transmission input pulley and the output axel shafts, then yeah... probably time for a transmission or at least some creative tear down and repairs of it. :)

If the slip occurs between the wheels and the axel shaft, then it’s time to look at the gears in the wheels again.

Most of this I think can be simulated by grabbing components and seeing if you can turn them / cause a slip with your hands. Spark plug disconnected obviously.

I think yours has roto stop. I’d also be tempted to put it blocks, take the bottom guard off, put some camera below it and then run it with the blade disengaged. Try to video the system while a helper engages the self propelled and you use something to stop the wheel and induce the slip. I would ONLY consider this with the roto stop to keep the blade disengaged AND you keep all hands, blocks, etc WELL CLEAR of the cutting deck. Aka, be VERY careful with this... but I’d be tempted with the right precautions as it may show exactly what’s going on in a video.

Glad to hear the adjusters are working better. It’s amazing how well these work when everything is perfect. :)


#24

S

soundchasm

Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)


#25

R

rePhil

Order a transmission and that's what you will get. Everything else, pulley, key, nut, any bolts, snap rings etc, need to be ordered separately.
It's gets pricey fast. But there is a certain satisfaction in repairing something that is designed to be repaired and has a long service life.


soundchasm said:
Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)
Click to expand...


#26

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
Going back to the link you supplied, I think I need to determine if the driven pulley is included with the transmission. It may or may not make sense to price it separately if it's included with the transmission.

It'd be nice to be able to order the driven pulley and a cable, and THEN go for the transmission.

I work on the weekends, so it will probably be next week before I can get back to this. Thanks!

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

You know, for a product that practically has "Tadaa!" as part of its name, it's putting up a bit of a fight. ;-)
Click to expand...


Looks to me in the diagram that the pulley is included with the transmission but can be ordered separately too. It looks like the transmission only comes with the pulley attached.

Good luck and let us know how it goes when you're able to get back to it :)


#27

R

rePhil

I agree. According to that diagram the pulley is included


Briantii said:
Looks to me in the diagram that the pulley is included with the transmission but can be ordered separately too. It looks like the transmission only comes with the pulley attached.

Good luck and let us know how it goes when you're able to get back to it :)
Click to expand...


#28

S

soundchasm

OK, there was a rare coincidence of ambition and opportunity today.

I've got the disassembly down to four sockets and the circlip pliers. Came apart pretty quickly. My first impression is that there will be a clearance issue getting the transmission out in the future, because the pulley kind of bumps into the deck when you're down to the last inch or two, but maybe with the cables loose it'll rotate enough to clear.

With the drive lever NOT engaged, the pulley turns freely, perhaps as expected.

With the drive lever engaged, my fingers weren't quite strong enough to hold the axle still while I rotated the pulley. Spinning the pulley in either direction turns the axle appropriately. I clamped vise grips on the axle, spun the driven pulley, and the vise grips swung until they hit the deck. Then I was EASILY still able to turn the pulley. Same result going the other way.

Seems like there was maybe a 1/4 turn of the pulley before the axle started to move. BUT, something is slipping big time.

I think I'll order a new transmission and just get after it. I'd love to take the old one apart, but considering the mower is 2001 and I paid $150 for it used 7-10 years ago, I'm not unhappy.

I'm one of the world's worst mechanics, so this has been both frustrating and fun at the same time. I do know a ringer in the mechanical department. He's never disassembled something he didn't understand afterwards. Trouble is that he's 60 miles away one-way. Methinks the most expeditious course of action is to replace the transmission and then take the old one out to him for fun. We'll both learn something.

I'll keep you guys posted, but there may be a week for delivery time, unless somebody has an additional insight. I didn't try to figure out how the cables are attached. One appears to be a fairly straight-forward clip, but I can't see the other.

Thanks,
Greg

PS - I'd have loved to stick a camera under that thing when it's running!!
PS PS - When I say the driven pulley is turning, I mean it is turning the shaft that goes into the tranny. The pulley connection to the shaft is 100%.


#29

B

Briantii

soundchasm said:
OK, there was a rare coincidence of ambition and opportunity today.

I've got the disassembly down to four sockets and the circlip pliers. Came apart pretty quickly. My first impression is that there will be a clearance issue getting the transmission out in the future, because the pulley kind of bumps into the deck when you're down to the last inch or two, but maybe with the cables loose it'll rotate enough to clear.

With the drive lever NOT engaged, the pulley turns freely, perhaps as expected.

With the drive lever engaged, my fingers weren't quite strong enough to hold the axle still while I rotated the pulley. Spinning the pulley in either direction turns the axle appropriately. I clamped vise grips on the axle, spun the driven pulley, and the vise grips swung until they hit the deck. Then I was EASILY still able to turn the pulley. Same result going the other way.

Seems like there was maybe a 1/4 turn of the pulley before the axle started to move. BUT, something is slipping big time.

I think I'll order a new transmission and just get after it. I'd love to take the old one apart, but considering the mower is 2001 and I paid $150 for it used 7-10 years ago, I'm not unhappy.

I'm one of the world's worst mechanics, so this has been both frustrating and fun at the same time. I do know a ringer in the mechanical department. He's never disassembled something he didn't understand afterwards. Trouble is that he's 60 miles away one-way. Methinks the most expeditious course of action is to replace the transmission and then take the old one out to him for fun. We'll both learn something.

I'll keep you guys posted, but there may be a week for delivery time, unless somebody has an additional insight. I didn't try to figure out how the cables are attached. One appears to be a fairly straight-forward clip, but I can't see the other.

Thanks,
Greg

PS - I'd have loved to stick a camera under that thing when it's running!!
PS PS - When I say the driven pulley is turning, I mean it is turning the shaft that goes into the tranny. The pulley connection to the shaft is 100%.
Click to expand...

Wow, OK... well slipping in the transmission is slipping within the transmission. Guess it's time for a new one of those. Great work staying on it and fighting through the issues. It'll be nice when it's like new again.


#30

S

soundchasm

Briantii said:
Wow, OK... well slipping in the transmission is slipping within the transmission. Guess it's time for a new one of those. Great work staying on it and fighting through the issues. It'll be nice when it's like new again.
Click to expand...

It's an education and confronting my worst fears and weaknesses, so it's cool in a way. And it's an anti-establishment move to fix something instead of replace it, and that makes me happy. This also puts me into the minority, and I kind of like that. :) And no one is watching me do this, so that saves a lot of laughter and groaning from the peanut gallery when I forget the thing that goes on first.

My best guitar amps are from 1964 and 1965, and the amps work for a living. My oldest guitar is from 1978. My Taco is a 2002, and looks and runs fantastic (except for the rusting frame!!). When I was hanging out with my "mechanical ringer", he looked at me and said "You don't buy something, you adopt it!" I think my proclivity for not replacing things is proportional to my dislike of shopping for new things. When something does the dang job correctly, let's try saving it.

The arrival date for the parts is 9/3-9/6. It may be the week of the 9th that I try the next step. The Internet is a fabulous thing. Glad I found this forum. Greatly appreciate the help and encouragement. I'm susceptible to peer pressure, but luckily that includes the good kind!

Thanks.


#31

M

mdistel

Make sure you don't have the gears reversed. I did on my HRB217TDA after cleaning them and it went backwards fine, the tran spun like crazy but of course would never grab. I suggest removing the wheels and running the tran to see if its even spinning then make sure you put them on correctly. Good luck!

Mark


#32

S

soundchasm

Well, after all that work last year, I replaced the transmission AND GOT THE SAME RESULT.

I was pretty steamed. And deflated. So many hours and so much puzzling...

I saw a "small engine repair" sign in the neighborhood this week. Called the number and dropped off that day. Guy said he was a tech at a Honda shop somewhere. I explained the situation. He checked the performance and said "something's going on".

He took it to his shop for that reason. Called the next day.

Here's the major diagnosis.

THE FREAKING SPRING WAS WORN OUT!!! Man, I was NEVER going to get there!! Ugh... As tough as that SOB was to manipulate, I don't think that was on anybody's radar.

For some reason, he put on a new drive cable, even though it was a brand new drive cable. Like $65. For a cable... I know how these dealer guys are about OEM stuff. They'll spank you for going off the reservation.

So, apparently, the springs are good for 10+ years. $135 repair and in the end I'm just happy to have the mystery solved.

The mower is old enough to vote, so I shouldn't complain.

Thanks to all who assisted. Can't do it w/o you.


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