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motoman said:

Search the forum. There are numerous long threads.

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Cow said:

Recently i post a Thread on Kubota T series mowers , as most do know Kubota now have Kohler engs. the one i bought 3 wks ago has the Kohler Courage 20 hp , when i get 50 hrs. on this eng. i will be changing oil etc. and i`m going to use Full Synthetic .
I would like to hear which brand Synthetic i should use, also most likely it will be 10W-30 unless someone can tell me info. why i should not .
I have read the Manuel & it calls for SG, SH, SJ or Higher , can someone explain in detail how this would apply to Full Synthetic .
Thanks for your replies .
Kentucky

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KennyV said:

Cow, I'm sure you realize the Manufacturer is recommending the "Minimum" standardoil in your manual... and since you are switching to a synthetic, you are aware there are Better oils available...
Any full synthetic oil will be better than most any mineral base oil... There are a few that really don't understand that.

You can not really compair mineral oil "weights" to synthetic oil numbers... Synthetic oils achieve a multi viscosity in a different way...
As reynoldston said 15W40 Amsoil, is great... Amsoil started synthetics & have been doing it for a Long time...
I run Rotella T6 5W40 synthetic in every Diesel or Gasoline engine I have, Diesel rated oils have the highest non foaming detergent additive plus excellent high pressure components. I've ran diesel rated synthetics for decades in gasoline engines, before Rotella T6, it was Mobil1 turbo truck, before that it was Mobil1 Delvac...
You will never regret switching to a synthetic, and there will always be a few that just are not able to 'get it'...
Love those Kubota's ... :smile:KennyV

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Old Goat said:

Never bought into the fairy tale about using deisel oil in a gasoline engine and never will.

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief6 -...sic and High-Performance Gasoline Engines.pdf



I only use one word when I think "oil". Valvoline.
Been that way forever, still true. Regular or synthetic.

Much more info here.
Bob Is The Oil Guy - Forums powered by UBB.threads™

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Ric said:

It's the API Service Category, it's what the manufacturer says is needed for your engine. Your engine calls for a Detergent oil of SG, SH, SJ or SL for oil type, not a synthetic. The API service Category for synthetic is CF if there even using it now. Check your manual it will tell you what type of oil to use, the engines capacity and viscosity to use, I recommend doing or following the manufacturers recommendations .

Which 20hp kohler does it have the single cylinder or twin?

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Old Goat said:

Never bought into the fairy tale about using deisel oil in a gasoline engine and never will.



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Cow said:

...
i have spoke with Kubota & Kohler Manf.
and they try their best to convince me what a Great eng . i have but, if it is so Great then Why do i read so many Neg . reply on Kohler Courage . without doubt i will use Full Synthetic eng. oil after i get the 50 hr. break in period over. I was already leaning toward Rotella T6 then i read it is basicly for Desiel eng.
....
For me i would have felt much more secure if Kubota had stayed with the Kaw. engs .

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Cow said:

It has the V twin SV-710 Kohler Courage eng. was Manf. 8-26 -2012 ( made in China , label is right on flywheel shroud )
Very true manuel calls for SG, SH, SJ, or Higher , i had phone talk with Kubota Rep. ( 40 mins. ) last wk. and i ask him if it was OK and would my 2 yr warranty be Void if i change oil ( 50 hrs. ) and use Synthetic , he said long as i stay in Viscosity it would be fine.
This guy said he was Kubota Rep for 6 states , so i told him my results from using Syn. oil in my older Kubota (16 yrs ) with Kaw. eng.
he has no problem with my Syn. choice .

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Ric said:

I ran the 20 hp Kohler single cylinder, I also ran the same engine 20hp V-twin you have purchased in 2008 along with 22hp Kohler I'm still running now. I learned my lesson with synthetic oil and I'll never run it in any of my engines again. I did the same thing you're talking about doing and it turned my LT 1045 CC Kohler single at just over 100 hrs into the nicest mosquito foggier in the world.

I took my 1045 to the shop to be fixed and I told them what I did at the 50 hr change and what I put in was the Mobil 1 for oil, they called a day later and said the mower was ready to be picked up it was fixed, all the mechanic did was changed the oil back to the regular oil and the thing run great and never smoke again. The 1045 with the kohler single had almost 500 hrs when I sold it, my CC Z-force 44" was the same when sold and the 22hp in my 48" z-force is coming up to 700 hrs, all Courage engines. All my engines Kohler, Kawasaki, Honda and one crap Briggs run nothing but Mobil Super 5000 10w30 motor oil and change my oil every 50hrs with filter and I run my mowers six days a week. The thing is you asked why all the negativity towards the Kohler Courage and everybody blames Kohler for there engine problems but IMO it's not Kohler it's the people running them and not following the Manufacturers Recommendations.

You'll have to pardon me but I don't buy into Kenny's theory's about the greatness of synthetic oil, I think it use is all hype when it comes to mowers. Your engine is designed and built by people who know what there doing and undoubtedly no more about them than anyone here. If your engine was designed to run on Synthetic it would say so in the manual but it doesn't it calls for a Detergent oil SG, SH, SJ, or Higher not the CF rating of a Synthetic but hey who am I, you run whatever you want I learned my lesson and thank goodness I had a mechanic set me straight and it didn't cost me big time.

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Ric said:

It's the API Service Category, it's what the manufacturer says is needed for your engine. Your engine calls for a Detergent oil of SG, SH, SJ or SL for oil type, not a synthetic. The API service Category for synthetic is CF if there even using it now. Check your manual it will tell you what type of oil to use, the engines capacity and viscosity to use, I recommend doing or following the manufacturers recommendations .

Which 20hp kohler does it have the single cylinder or twin?

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motoman said:

Beating it to death...ok. Agricultual engines are low rpm units , not high performance. Look at the hp per cu in. The 3000 rpm is a fast idle. If people think they need $8 /qt oil when $1.50 will do just fine I guess it's fine too. No one on this forum has convinced me that syn oils run cooler, though many tried. When my Intek came apart with low hours it was not due to lubrication problems with Chevron 10w30, it was (IMO) over heat in the head. No damage whatsoever with the auto oil.

The sump runs up to 300F on hot days. I will tell you soon how hot the head gets. Even at 300F oil pressure is 35 psi and no damage. I would not run Chevron 10w-30 in a Kawasaki drag bike or road racer.

On the other hand I do not believe syn oil will hurt if kept in the proper viscosity range. Would like to hear specific reasons reverting to factory recommended oil "fixed" things. Sorry, but that sounds like voodoo repair. There are many "myths" about syn oil lifting seals , etc. None verified, I believe. The syn oil is good stuff. I run it in wife's German car to satisfy the warranty cops. Seems way overpriced.:2cents:

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Ric said:

I ran the 20 hp Kohler single cylinder, I also ran the same engine 20hp V-twin you have purchased in 2008 along with 22hp Kohler I'm still running now. I learned my lesson with synthetic oil and I'll never run it in any of my engines again. I did the same thing you're talking about doing and it turned my LT 1045 CC Kohler single at just over 100 hrs into the nicest mosquito foggier in the world.

I took my 1045 to the shop to be fixed and I told them what I did at the 50 hr change and what I put in was the Mobil 1 for oil, they called a day later and said the mower was ready to be picked up it was fixed, all the mechanic did was changed the oil back to the regular oil and the thing run great and never smoke again. The 1045 with the kohler single had almost 500 hrs when I sold it, my CC Z-force 44" was the same when sold and the 22hp in my 48" z-force is coming up to 700 hrs, all Courage engines. All my engines Kohler, Kawasaki, Honda and one crap Briggs run nothing but Mobil Super 5000 10w30 motor oil and change my oil every 50hrs with filter and I run my mowers six days a week. The thing is you asked why all the negativity towards the Kohler Courage and everybody blames Kohler for there engine problems but IMO it's not Kohler it's the people running them and not following the Manufacturers Recommendations.

You'll have to pardon me but I don't buy into Kenny's theory's about the greatness of synthetic oil, I think it use is all hype when it comes to mowers. Your engine is designed and built by people who know what there doing and undoubtedly no more about them than anyone here. If your engine was designed to run on Synthetic it would say so in the manual but it doesn't it calls for a Detergent oil SG, SH, SJ, or Higher not the CF rating of a Synthetic but hey who am I, you run whatever you want I learned my lesson and thank goodness I had a mechanic set me straight and it didn't cost me big time.

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djdicetn said:

Ric,

Thank God someone else on these forums sees this "controversy" of regular oil versus synthetic oil the same way I do(small engines and/or automotive engines). BTW, I have a 2001 Lincoln LS with a V8 that has 151,000 miles over 12 years that does not use(burn/leak) a DROP of oil every 3,000 miles and a 1995 Chevy Silverado with 230,000 miles that uses(burns/leaks) maybe a 1/2 to 1 pint every 3,000 miles(still pretty good in my book). Neither of these vehicles have seen anything except 10W30 Penzoil since their first oil change. I don't add Slick50 or any other "new-age" products in these engines, but upon the recommendation of my mechanic(because of their mileage) I have started to add Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Treatment once every 12,000 miles to both(this is also a "petroleum-based" product as well). I don't trust synthetics or synthetic blends and never will.

Now for my perspective on small engine(lawn mower) applications:
For my lawn mowers I have NEVER used multi-viscosity which can "lead to oil consumption"(this is explicitly stated in my Kawasaki Commercial engine handbook for my Gravely). I have used "ONLY" SAE 30W Briggs & Stratton engine oil(inexpensive and available at WalMart) in all my "small engine" lawn equipment applications. BTW, my first lawn tractor, a 1993 True Value Lawn Chief with a 16hp Briggs and Stratton Vanguard, was in service for 19 years before the deck fell apart and the engine still ran like brand new and did not use a single drop of oil between seasons. Need I say more?
To further elaborate, if you can "see a difference" with using synthetics that clearly indicates better performance and if your engine manual explicitly states that synthetic is OK(and I would assume it would mention a preferred "viscosity" for synthetics) I don't blame some folks for giving a try(this did not seem to be user Ric's experience). But.......bottom line, my Kawasaki FX691V Owner's Manual does NOT even mention the use of synthetic oil and as I stated earlier it specifically says "Using multi-grade oils(5W20, 10W30 and 10W40) will increase oil consumption. Check oil level more frequently when using them." I have to believe what Kawasaki tells me in regard to their engines, therefore my reasoning for continuing the use of Briggs & Stratton SAE 30W oil. Unless further research on the Kawasaki website or a reply from their Tech Support via a "Contact Us" correspondence changes that, most likely I will take my chances on their recommendations. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

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Ric said:

I think there has been a lot of brain washing going on with people over the controversy with oil types and what needs to be used in what. You would think that if this synthetic oil was so super that every automotive manufacturer would be screaming to run the stuff in the cars they make but yet none do, only in certain cars like the Corvette, Mini Cooper and a few other High Performance cars is it used or recommended to satisfy there warranty.
I don't think any of the Mower Manuals I've looked at and gone through Kawasaki, Kohler, Hondas or Briggs say anything or recommend the use of synthetic oil, it's always A Detergent oil API Service Classification SG, SH, SJ. Yes I know it says using multi-grade oils(5W20, 10W30 and 10W40) can increase oil consumption but I personally use the 10w30 and as much or as often as I change I've never seen any of my mowers use any oil but I also know I'm a bit of a fanatic in my beliefs about changing my oil every 50 hrs and sometimes sooner if conditions warrant it.

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Rocketman said:

I use Mobile 1 T4, 10/40 oil for sportsbike application. It is made for air cooled and water cooled sportsbike engines, and my Cub Cadet absolutely loves the stuff. It leaks a little more around the valve covers but everything else is good. It also seems to run cooler with synthetic! I have the opinion that an oil specifically made for air cooled engines woul dbe better than just a 30w general purpose oil. I have also used Valvoline ATV oil in 10/40 and it works great as well.

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Ric said:

I'm like you No one on this forum has ever convinced me that syn oils run cooler or are any better than the Mobil 5000 I use and after my experience with the synthetic stuff they never will. I'll stay with the Manufacturers Recommendations.

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tankdriver said:

Briggs now sells a full Synthetic oil, so is it OK now?

I have a Swisher pull behind trimmer, that I converted to electric stater. When starting it, it turned over slowly, but when I put in the Synthetic oil, the cranking RPM increased immensely.

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tankdriver said:

Briggs now sells a full Synthetic oil, so is it OK now?

I have a Swisher pull behind trimmer, that I converted to electric stater. When starting it, it turned over slowly, but when I put in the Synthetic oil, the cranking RPM increased immensely.

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Cow said:

Porkchop , thanks for the reply on Kohler engs. & syn. oil , i certainly do appreciacate all the thoughts & answers from others , no kidding when i first relized i had this Kohler Courage i was one unhappy Kubota owner , i could not understand why a Manf. of such a good Mower would put a inferior eng in a quality name product, i have read, studied ,talked , emailed , so many people on this matter
i feel i have worn the subject out.
With the encouraging news like your reply maybe i can see some light at the end of the tunnel , I have spoken to a couple local small eng. repair fellows in my general area , and found out most the complaints are on the single cyl. Courage eng . and yes i have seen with my eyes the complete broken ( busted ) Crankcase Courage eng have . Providing Kohler has gotten the bugs from this eng. i can only imagine the lost sales because of so many complaints and repairs they have made.
I have learned my lesson for sure before i step out & purchase another product that has served me well for many yrs. i`ll do my homework before i make the plunge, just because a product has served you well in past , does not mean that it will always be that way
in this time of every manf. cutting back to save money just to be able to compete with world wide trade , BUYER BEWARE, for sure the "Ole Gray Mare Ain`t what she use to be "
I`m sticking with manf. suggestions on all mantaince on this mower or at least untill Warranty expires. then i`ll put my judgement to work with past experince , i have had excellent results with Sync. oil in past even on other lawn mowers ( their manuels did not call for it either ) for example the old Kubota now 16 yrs old with the 14hp Kaw. eng. runs Great today , my garden tiller, even the 2011 Camry car uses Syn. oil ( Manuel calls for it though ).
About all i can add to the Oil debate is my personal experience , i have NO problem using Syn. oil in any my motors Air or liquid Cooled.
Providing the Warranty states otherwise. Thanks again to everyone that has made replys to my Question`s on Kohler Courage, Command eng. & others.

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Ric said:

Ask yourself some questions, because Briggs makes there own synthetic oil is it better? Kohler makes there own oil and to my knowledge it's not synthetic. What purpose does running synthetic accomplish? Does your manual call for you to use synthetic oil, probably not. Thing is most people who run synthetic oil don't actually know why they run it, they do because like the videos say it makes them feel better. Your manual will tell you to use regular motor oil for the first 50 hours to break your engine in and seat the rings properly. As far as I am concerned if the synthetic oil isn't good enough to break my engine in then I have no reason to believe it's better to run the stuff after break in. The oil guru's on these forums will say if they use synthetic they can extend there oil changes from the 50hrs to 100hrs on there mowers ( BS )
Preform a little test and drive your car down the road with a new air filter for a day and see how much dirt and dust is in the air filter at the end of that day then do the same with your mower, mow lawns for the same period of time and check the air filter in it, big difference and when you see all the dirt and dust in your mower filter you'll say man this thing needs to be cleaned daily cause its full of crap just stop and think if this filter caught all this I wonder how much it didn't catch and is now in my oil. A lawn mower engine runs in extreme conditions and needs to be maintained daily as well as its oil needs to be checked daily or before every use and watched and changed frequently. If you wish to use synthetic by all means use it but I learned my lesson using the stuff and I'm not going there again.

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Ric said:

Ask yourself some questions, because Briggs makes there own synthetic oil is it better? Kohler makes there own oil and to my knowledge it's not synthetic. What purpose does running synthetic accomplish? Does your manual call for you to use synthetic oil, probably not. Thing is most people who run synthetic oil don't actually know why they run it, they do because like the videos say it makes them feel better. Your manual will tell you to use regular motor oil for the first 50 hours to break your engine in and seat the rings properly. As far as I am concerned if the synthetic oil isn't good enough to break my engine in then I have no reason to believe it's better to run the stuff after break in. The oil guru's on these forums will say if they use synthetic they can extend there oil changes from the 50hrs to 100hrs on there mowers ( BS )
Preform a little test and drive your car down the road with a new air filter for a day and see how much dirt and dust is in the air filter at the end of that day then do the same with your mower, mow lawns for the same period of time and check the air filter in it, big difference and when you see all the dirt and dust in your mower filter you'll say man this thing needs to be cleaned daily cause its full of crap just stop and think if this filter caught all this I wonder how much it didn't catch and is now in my oil. A lawn mower engine runs in extreme conditions and needs to be maintained daily as well as its oil needs to be checked daily or before every use and watched and changed frequently. If you wish to use synthetic by all means use it but I learned my lesson using the stuff and I'm not going there again.

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KennyV said:

Flat tappet failure using the new automobile gasoline engineoils is a real problem with older engines. I've seen mopar cams destroyed.
The higher zddp is a definite help... and like I said, the oil viscosity is arrived differently with synthetic oils... I never suggested anyone use mineral oil that is out of the 'range' recommended... :smile:KennyV

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Cow said:

Recently i post a Thread on Kubota T series mowers , as most do know Kubota now have Kohler engs. the one i bought 3 wks ago has the Kohler Courage 20 hp , when i get 50 hrs. on this eng. i will be changing oil etc. and i`m going to use Full Synthetic .
I would like to hear which brand Synthetic i should use, also most likely it will be 10W-30 unless someone can tell me info. why i should not .
I have read the Manuel & it calls for SG, SH, SJ or Higher , can someone explain in detail how this would apply to Full Synthetic .
Thanks for your replies .
Kentucky

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