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Had my Echo pan pack blower survey for the first time since it would not run when squeezing the throttle. The shop said it was the ethanol in the regular gas that attracts water and then gums up the carburetor. His advice was to use high octane gas and it is only good for some 2 months and fuel stabilizer is virtually useless.

I guess this is true??? I have read much about it on line and also read that there is one stabilizer that works Star Tron ??? Is this true??

brand names will vary between the USA & down here so no comment on star tron.

Ethanol's affect on the fuel will depend upon how long the fuel sits. the temterature & relative humidity of where the tool is and the actual blend of gas being produced at the time by that particular brand of fuel.
Down here the refinaries guarantee fuel to be useable for 2 months past the date it left the refinery .
Diesel is even worse as that guarantee is provided it spent all its life in a sealed container filled to the top.

So you have not been fed a big slice of meadow cake by the dealer.
I now only sell 1 litre mixing bottles for small tools to ensure the customer is using fresh fuel and advise they tip out the left over in the tools tank , start the tool and run it dry if they are not going to be using it for a month or more.
The discarded fuel can go into your vehicle so it is not wasted as the vehicle will most likely be computer controlled & fuel injected.

Stabilisers do ot work as well in fuelil mixes aas they do in strait fuel , they are better than nothing but best is always fresh fuel

My son & I use 93 octane gas for all equipment, Echo 2-cycle oil for Echo equipment & a quality brand fuel stabilizer, no problems.

There are now more stabilizers and treatments which appear to be effective against the evils of ethanol. Ethanol is tolerable in small engines, to include 2 strokes if not allowed to sit for a month or more. It will take its toll on both diaphragms and needles. And it can eventually wipe out your carburetor if allowed to sit for a few months, over winter for instance. I've had only 1 two cycle item survive ethanol. Another thing with ethanol is it can virtually wipe the oil away from your moving parts. That is why now most 2 cycle engines come with and stress the use of fully synthetic two cycle oil. If your not aware of the term "phase - separation" as it applies to water in ethanol and its impact (less than 1 % water is all it takes), you need to look it up. Here's a sample I pulled from my 89 Isuzu Trooper. Besides the obvious you see in the jar (acid/water, additives, gas) it creates a very powerful acid. Holding the jar at eye level, that thick sphere of gray matter looked exactly like the gray colored blow - in insulation. I could shake the jar vigorously and it would return to the state you see it within 90 seconds. With the water/acid mix being on the bottom, taht is what is being sucked up through the fuel pickup tube. When I got a look inside the gas tank, expecting a typically old cruddy tank, the tank inside looked as though it had been chromed. Blew me away. I had to do a lot of other stuff but I eventually got it squared away and began running non - ethanol and its been fine ever since. You'll find folks who say ethanol is fine, I on the other hand have had multiple bad experiences with it and run it only in a daily driver. All my other vehicles, tools, toys etc get non - ethanol. We can thank the marine industry for the additives now available to combat the bad side of ethanol. They took a serious, serious hit a while back with the phase separation deal.

Strange results: I washed my gas tank out with plain water and it did great. Rubber fuel lines had deteriorated to the point my fuel filter looked as though it had been dipped in black tar. Removed the card and began cleaning the inside with both carb cleaner and brake cleaner. Both had zero effect. I filled a pump sprayer with water and sprayed away. Water did the trick very easily. I then had to deal with my intake and other stuff but I eventually made it right. That was one hard learned lesson.

Rickcin said:

Had my Echo pan pack blower survey for the first time since it would not run when squeezing the throttle. The shop said it was the ethanol in the regular gas that attracts water and then gums up the carburetor. His advice was to use high octane gas and it is only good for some 2 months and fuel stabilizer is virtually useless.

I guess this is true??? I have read much about it on line and also read that there is one stabilizer that works Star Tron ??? Is this true??

Click to expand...

Ethanol in gas is nothing more than ethanol alcohol, it's used for oxygenating E10 and E85 fuel and absorbs water, it's a solvent or cleaner and I think if you take a look at the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) you'll find that many of the fuel system treatments products you find on the shelves that people tell you to run contain the same properties. All those treatments run anywhere from 15% to 50% alcohol of one type or another.
That gas separation thing or photo that someone posted is really a neat example but is really irrelevant when it comes to ethanol in gas because you can do the same with regular or non-ethanol gas. Separation or water in gas was happening long before ethanol in gas was ever thought of.

Another example of chemical analysis by an internet intellectual. iBelieve what you want. Have stored non-ethanol for way over a year with no separation, ever. Both will have x amount of water though ethanol retains water molecularly whereas non doesn't. Ethanol attacks rubber, composites, etc where I've never witnessed non having that characteristic. Make sure this winter and store all your smaller items with a full tank of ethanol.

Water in the air dissolves into the ethanol fuel ( which is not petrol ). These water molecules can, under the right conditions react with the ethanol.
The new product is highly conductive so sets up a galvanic reaction in the bottom of the carb float bowl which can eat into the zinc or aluminium and destroy the carburettor.
Bacteria can grow in this water/ethanol mix and forms a yellow / white goo, just the same as bacteria used to grow in the fuel tanks of the old formual diesel.
Ethanol attacks ( dissolves ) the binders used in some rubber products and latex ( natural rubber ) which is now cheaper than the carbon black used in synthetic rubber so a lot of rubber blends now contain the maximum allowable latex ( slightly higer if it is cheap Chineese in origin ).
Ethanol also will cause unstabilized brass to dezinkify , again not a problem with USA made brasses that are all stabilised but not necessarily the same with again, cheap Chineese brass.

By now all parts made for small engine are supposed to be stable in 10% ethanol mixtures so "eating your engine" is not the problem it was 20 years ago.
However gunking up your fuel is is still a problem if you leave it for long enough, if the weather in your region is right and if the actual fuel blend is right.
Thus the results will vary, it will be a problem for some and not for others. Too many if's so best to avoid the chances as the price differential over a full year would not come to the same as a single carb repair/replacement.

You might like to go the the fuel companies tech pages and read the storage conditions from the very companies that make the stuff.
Or to here ethanol | Search Results | The Blog at Jacks Small Engines and read what a company that has no vested interest in your equipment repair says.


And as for Ric's "revelation" ,
The solvent carrier needed to deliver the mixture of chemicals sold as stabilisers must be able to hold these chemicals in solution without altering their chemistry and must also be soluable in the stuff ( fuel ) it is being added to.
He has obviously never used stabilizers or he would have noticed that the jar is sealed air tight.
Further if you can do the math ( Ric seems to have a problem with it ) 2oz to 4 oz per gallon @ 50% ethanol increases the ethanol content by 1.5%, if & only if the ethanol is free ethanol, which it is not because it is bound to the surfactants and totally stable.

bertsmobile1 said:

Water in the air dissolves into the ethanol fuel ( which is not petrol ). These water molecules can, under the right conditions react with the ethanol.
The new product is highly conductive so sets up a galvanic reaction in the bottom of the carb float bowl which can eat into the zinc or aluminium and destroy the carburettor.
Bacteria can grow in this water/ethanol mix and forms a yellow / white goo, just the same as bacteria used to grow in the fuel tanks of the old formual diesel.
Ethanol attacks ( dissolves ) the binders used in some rubber products and latex ( natural rubber ) which is now cheaper than the carbon black used in synthetic rubber so a lot of rubber blends now contain the maximum allowable latex ( slightly higer if it is cheap Chineese in origin ).
Ethanol also will cause unstabilized brass to dezinkify , again not a problem with USA made brasses that are all stabilised but not necessarily the same with again, cheap Chineese brass.

By now all parts made for small engine are supposed to be stable in 10% ethanol mixtures so "eating your engine" is not the problem it was 20 years ago.
However gunking up your fuel is is still a problem if you leave it for long enough, if the weather in your region is right and if the actual fuel blend is right.
Thus the results will vary, it will be a problem for some and not for others. Too many if's so best to avoid the chances as the price differential over a full year would not come to the same as a single carb repair/replacement.

You might like to go the the fuel companies tech pages and read the storage conditions from the very companies that make the stuff.
Or to here ethanol | Search Results | The Blog at Jacks Small Engines and read what a company that has no vested interest in your equipment repair says.


And as for Ric's "revelation" ,
The solvent carrier needed to deliver the mixture of chemicals sold as stabilisers must be able to hold these chemicals in solution without altering their chemistry and must also be soluable in the stuff ( fuel ) it is being added to.
He has obviously never used stabilizers or he would have noticed that the jar is sealed air tight.
Further if you can do the math ( Ric seems to have a problem with it ) 2oz to 4 oz per gallon @ 50% ethanol increases the ethanol content by 1.5%, if & only if the ethanol is free ethanol, which it is not because it is bound to the surfactants and totally stable.

Click to expand...

That's what I meant. :laughing:
The part of your reply which I bolded is spot on. The interior of my carb, mainly the bowl, and the floor of the intake manifold were nasty lime colored slime (goo).

Here we go with this **** again.
Once a month this comes up.
I am starting to think that a couple of you work for a ad company. Trying to get us to buy fuel stabilizer.
I have mowers that sit for months
And will start right now and run fine.
People can always find something to blame. For their lack of maintenance skills.

This is as bad as the crybabies that made them as the bad word blocker.

I never advocate using a fuel stabiliser
I do not stock it.
I do not sell it.
I do not believe in using it.
Check the posts if you like.
Fresh is best is the mantra that you will find me pushing for a lot of reasons.
Regardless of weather you are using E 10 , E 15 , E 85 , Unleaded, Super, Premium , Avgas , Racing formula or rocket fuel, they all go off over time.

I use fuel stab. But, I still shut off the fuel valve and let the motor "die". That way, I don't worry about the carb and I don't need to empty the fuel tank since it's stabilised.

Rickcin said:

Had my Echo pan pack blower survey for the first time since it would not run when squeezing the throttle. The shop said it was the ethanol in the regular gas that attracts water and then gums up the carburetor. His advice was to use high octane gas and it is only good for some 2 months and fuel stabilizer is virtually useless.

Click to expand...

High octane gas does not necessarily mean less ethanol. Ethanol in fact has higher octane rating than gasoline. Ethanol as an additive actually raises the octane number of the gasoline. E85 fuel has a octane rating above 95, by the way.

Carscw said:

Here we go with this **** again.
Once a month this comes up.
I am starting to think that a couple of you work for a ad company. Trying to get us to buy fuel stabilizer.
I have mowers that sit for months
And will start right now and run fine.
People can always find something to blame. For their lack of maintenance skills.

Click to expand...

I have to agree with this because I do the same thing. It just seems the more junk you dump in your tank the more problems.