I know what you are saying about the cheap China parts (junk) but I was working on a Kawasaki the other day with a carb issue. Leaked fuel into the crank case. Took carb apart and found a bad needle looked at it and said wow this looks just like the Briggs 231855 needle. Looks and worked just like the Kawa. Just for the heck of it I looked up the carb price through Kawa it was $301.85 for a single barrel carb on a FS651 engine. That is ridiculous. Found one on eBay for $17.00 and change. Which one would buy? You could buy 17 or so for that kind of money. Things need to change.
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Dr trimmer engine not getting spark
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Export threadbertsmobile1
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No people need to understand that it costs money, a lot of money , to test parts properly.I know what you are saying about the cheap China parts (junk) but I was working on a Kawasaki the other day with a carb issue. Leaked fuel into the crank case. Took carb apart and found a bad needle looked at it and said wow this looks just like the Briggs 231855 needle. Looks and worked just like the Kawa. Just for the heck of it I looked up the carb price through Kawa it was $301.85 for a single barrel carb on a FS651 engine. That is ridiculous. Found one on eBay for $17.00 and change. Which one would buy? You could buy 17 or so for that kind of money. Things need to change.
The $ 17 carb was bought as scrap metal for 30¢ because it was or was suspected to be defective
What needs to be changed is the factories should be made to crush all of the QC defects so they do end up being scrap metal & not resold as OEM parts which they are , but the vendor just forgot to put the word "rejected" so the description should have read "OEM QC REJECT CARB, FITS FS651V.
People see the $ 17 carb and instantly think Kawakasi is ripping them off for $ 284.85 where as in reality the Amazon/ Ebay vendor is ripping you off for $15.50 ( allowing for a retail profit margin & selling costs ) but of course people are basically lazy, stupid & greedy .
An Amal concentric carb for a 500cc British motorcycle is far less complicated than the Kawakasi carb, has around 1/3 the number of parts and 30 less machining operations .
Further more it has been in production for 65 years so the developement costs have amortised down to zero but they cost $ 300 down here & about $ 200 US .
So no Kawakasi is not ripping you off Jeff Besos is providing a platform for others to rip you off which is beyond the reach of consumer laws .
Class act here guys........ Not many say thanks. Just ride off into the sunset.....Thanks for the help and answers everyone, much appreciated!
Inlet needle which is the same as the Briggs 231855 is $6.09 from Briggs which has been around for ever is $16.00 and change and a plastic float that is probably the same as a lot of other carbs on the market is $23.00 and change Briggs similar is $8.29 say what you want this is a rip off.No people need to understand that it costs money, a lot of money , to test parts properly.
The $ 17 carb was bought as scrap metal for 30¢ because it was or was suspected to be defective
What needs to be changed is the factories should be made to crush all of the QC defects so they do end up being scrap metal & not resold as OEM parts which they are , but the vendor just forgot to put the word "rejected" so the description should have read "OEM QC REJECT CARB, FITS FS651V.
People see the $ 17 carb and instantly think Kawakasi is ripping them off for $ 284.85 where as in reality the Amazon/ Ebay vendor is ripping you off for $15.50 ( allowing for a retail profit margin & selling costs ) but of course people are basically lazy, stupid & greedy .
An Amal concentric carb for a 500cc British motorcycle is far less complicated than the Kawakasi carb, has around 1/3 the number of parts and 30 less machining operations .
Further more it has been in production for 65 years so the developement costs have amortised down to zero but they cost $ 300 down here & about $ 200 US .
So no Kawakasi is not ripping you off Jeff Besos is providing a platform for others to rip you off which is beyond the reach of consumer laws .
bertsmobile1
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So work back.
Allow a standard 30% to 50% mark up so now the $ 8.25 needle is around $ 6.50 .
Now when that was made, some one had to pack it into the little plastic bag / box.
The bag costs about 0,05¢ and a printed box around 5¢ but the machine that makes the bags as required & seals them is well north of $ 100.000 and there is an operator + a maintanance fitter + electricity to run it .
The little bags have to go into a bigger box for freight to the warehouse then get put into a bin.
The bin has a rental cost in a leased space plus an oppertunity cost.
Some one has to put the little bags / boxes into the bins and every month to 6 months count them
Some one else has to either enter these numbers into the computer and or check the count against the computer listed count
When you order one , some one has to go to the afore mentioned bin and take out the little plastic bag then drop it off at the despatch desk where it gets packaged for post to you direct , or gets put into a box for the dealer . If the latter then the whole process happens for a second time at the dealers stock room and of course the counter salesman has to look up the part on their computer to locate the bin the walk to that location, take the little plastic bag out and bring it to the counter where a sales invoice has to be generated .
If you pay with plastic them the dealer looses 1% to 5% of the sales value to the bank or in some cases faces a fixed cost which would be greater than his gross mark up .
An of course here is freight from the B & S warehouse to the dealers shop in the latter as well.
Down here a lot of shops have a minimum counter purchase price of $ 20 because anything less than that signiifes a loss on the physical cost of making the sale.
This is why when you go into a hardwear store all of the small items are in a multi pack and these packs are getting bigger every year because the cost of making sales goes up every year.
One of the big reasons why you can walk into Wallys. HF or similar rip off junk stores and buy an imported engine for 1/3 the price of a locally made one is they are not required to run the very expensive warehouses full of parts that they have paid for 2 years ago and will probably not all be sold for the next 15 years .
It is why Husqvarna has gone over the RuZin carbs . There are no service parts available so if it plays up you are forced to buy a complete carb which they can sell at a profit rather than individual gaskets & diaphragms that are sold at a loss .It is why Walbro is now consolodating and making universal internals to eliminate the need for warehousing 11,000 individual parts and why when you buy a full rebuild kit there are more parts that won't fit your carb than do fit because it is cheaper to give away the extra parts than stock 3,000 different specific packs .
The last warehouse I helped run distributed wine
The cost of picking a case of wine off the shelf, putting a lable on it + a packing slip & invoice then sitting it on the dock was $ 4.50, if and only if no forklifts were involved which doubled the picking price and this did not include the space rental price or the picking face replenishment price , or the delivery acceptance price or the stocktaking price .
So for the past X years B & S has probably been selling their small parts at a big loss which was covered by the large profits from selling vast numbers of engines to mower factories
So loosing $ 5,000,000 on parts is considered acceptable against the $ 30,000,000 in profits from selling complete engines
However now days there is only $ 5,000,000 of gross profits because the sales volume of new engines is so low .
Thus the loss on selling spares can no longer be offset against the whole goods profits and of course as volumes drop, the logistic costs per item goes up
Kohler parts prices are around the level that as a former foundry metallurgist , the production engineer & finally transport operator I would consider reasonsable & sustainable.
B & S prices have been way too cheap for decades and now the buying public has abandoned them in favour of a cheaper imported engine, the true costs of the spare parts chain is being reflected in the over the counter parts price.
So no you are not being Ripped Off, you are just used to being subsidised .
Allow a standard 30% to 50% mark up so now the $ 8.25 needle is around $ 6.50 .
Now when that was made, some one had to pack it into the little plastic bag / box.
The bag costs about 0,05¢ and a printed box around 5¢ but the machine that makes the bags as required & seals them is well north of $ 100.000 and there is an operator + a maintanance fitter + electricity to run it .
The little bags have to go into a bigger box for freight to the warehouse then get put into a bin.
The bin has a rental cost in a leased space plus an oppertunity cost.
Some one has to put the little bags / boxes into the bins and every month to 6 months count them
Some one else has to either enter these numbers into the computer and or check the count against the computer listed count
When you order one , some one has to go to the afore mentioned bin and take out the little plastic bag then drop it off at the despatch desk where it gets packaged for post to you direct , or gets put into a box for the dealer . If the latter then the whole process happens for a second time at the dealers stock room and of course the counter salesman has to look up the part on their computer to locate the bin the walk to that location, take the little plastic bag out and bring it to the counter where a sales invoice has to be generated .
If you pay with plastic them the dealer looses 1% to 5% of the sales value to the bank or in some cases faces a fixed cost which would be greater than his gross mark up .
An of course here is freight from the B & S warehouse to the dealers shop in the latter as well.
Down here a lot of shops have a minimum counter purchase price of $ 20 because anything less than that signiifes a loss on the physical cost of making the sale.
This is why when you go into a hardwear store all of the small items are in a multi pack and these packs are getting bigger every year because the cost of making sales goes up every year.
One of the big reasons why you can walk into Wallys. HF or similar rip off junk stores and buy an imported engine for 1/3 the price of a locally made one is they are not required to run the very expensive warehouses full of parts that they have paid for 2 years ago and will probably not all be sold for the next 15 years .
It is why Husqvarna has gone over the RuZin carbs . There are no service parts available so if it plays up you are forced to buy a complete carb which they can sell at a profit rather than individual gaskets & diaphragms that are sold at a loss .It is why Walbro is now consolodating and making universal internals to eliminate the need for warehousing 11,000 individual parts and why when you buy a full rebuild kit there are more parts that won't fit your carb than do fit because it is cheaper to give away the extra parts than stock 3,000 different specific packs .
The last warehouse I helped run distributed wine
The cost of picking a case of wine off the shelf, putting a lable on it + a packing slip & invoice then sitting it on the dock was $ 4.50, if and only if no forklifts were involved which doubled the picking price and this did not include the space rental price or the picking face replenishment price , or the delivery acceptance price or the stocktaking price .
So for the past X years B & S has probably been selling their small parts at a big loss which was covered by the large profits from selling vast numbers of engines to mower factories
So loosing $ 5,000,000 on parts is considered acceptable against the $ 30,000,000 in profits from selling complete engines
However now days there is only $ 5,000,000 of gross profits because the sales volume of new engines is so low .
Thus the loss on selling spares can no longer be offset against the whole goods profits and of course as volumes drop, the logistic costs per item goes up
Kohler parts prices are around the level that as a former foundry metallurgist , the production engineer & finally transport operator I would consider reasonsable & sustainable.
B & S prices have been way too cheap for decades and now the buying public has abandoned them in favour of a cheaper imported engine, the true costs of the spare parts chain is being reflected in the over the counter parts price.
So no you are not being Ripped Off, you are just used to being subsidised .
So a $301.00 carb should be like 1/6 The price of an engine. And that carb. should cost about the same price as a cylinder head kit @ $307.00. So I guess an engine should cost about $6,000.00.So work back.
Allow a standard 30% to 50% mark up so now the $ 8.25 needle is around $ 6.50 .
Now when that was made, some one had to pack it into the little plastic bag / box.
The bag costs about 0,05¢ and a printed box around 5¢ but the machine that makes the bags as required & seals them is well north of $ 100.000 and there is an operator + a maintanance fitter + electricity to run it .
The little bags have to go into a bigger box for freight to the warehouse then get put into a bin.
The bin has a rental cost in a leased space plus an oppertunity cost.
Some one has to put the little bags / boxes into the bins and every month to 6 months count them
Some one else has to either enter these numbers into the computer and or check the count against the computer listed count
When you order one , some one has to go to the afore mentioned bin and take out the little plastic bag then drop it off at the despatch desk where it gets packaged for post to you direct , or gets put into a box for the dealer . If the latter then the whole process happens for a second time at the dealers stock room and of course the counter salesman has to look up the part on their computer to locate the bin the walk to that location, take the little plastic bag out and bring it to the counter where a sales invoice has to be generated .
If you pay with plastic them the dealer looses 1% to 5% of the sales value to the bank or in some cases faces a fixed cost which would be greater than his gross mark up .
An of course here is freight from the B & S warehouse to the dealers shop in the latter as well.
Down here a lot of shops have a minimum counter purchase price of $ 20 because anything less than that signiifes a loss on the physical cost of making the sale.
This is why when you go into a hardwear store all of the small items are in a multi pack and these packs are getting bigger every year because the cost of making sales goes up every year.
One of the big reasons why you can walk into Wallys. HF or similar rip off junk stores and buy an imported engine for 1/3 the price of a locally made one is they are not required to run the very expensive warehouses full of parts that they have paid for 2 years ago and will probably not all be sold for the next 15 years .
It is why Husqvarna has gone over the RuZin carbs . There are no service parts available so if it plays up you are forced to buy a complete carb which they can sell at a profit rather than individual gaskets & diaphragms that are sold at a loss .It is why Walbro is now consolodating and making universal internals to eliminate the need for warehousing 11,000 individual parts and why when you buy a full rebuild kit there are more parts that won't fit your carb than do fit because it is cheaper to give away the extra parts than stock 3,000 different specific packs .
The last warehouse I helped run distributed wine
The cost of picking a case of wine off the shelf, putting a lable on it + a packing slip & invoice then sitting it on the dock was $ 4.50, if and only if no forklifts were involved which doubled the picking price and this did not include the space rental price or the picking face replenishment price , or the delivery acceptance price or the stocktaking price .
So for the past X years B & S has probably been selling their small parts at a big loss which was covered by the large profits from selling vast numbers of engines to mower factories
So loosing $ 5,000,000 on parts is considered acceptable against the $ 30,000,000 in profits from selling complete engines
However now days there is only $ 5,000,000 of gross profits because the sales volume of new engines is so low .
Thus the loss on selling spares can no longer be offset against the whole goods profits and of course as volumes drop, the logistic costs per item goes up
Kohler parts prices are around the level that as a former foundry metallurgist , the production engineer & finally transport operator I would consider reasonsable & sustainable.
B & S prices have been way too cheap for decades and now the buying public has abandoned them in favour of a cheaper imported engine, the true costs of the spare parts chain is being reflected in the over the counter parts price.
So no you are not being Ripped Off, you are just used to being subsidised .
bertsmobile1
Lawn Royalty
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2014
- Threads
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- Messages
- 24,995
Well done my best to explain the nuts & bolts of it
Bu it looks like either your mind is shut tight or you like being arguementative.
The logistical costs associated with each item are fairly well the same save the actual trucking freight
If you know any service people ask them about the costs of logistical support for troops anywhere .
But if you get your jollies by racing around screaming WE WAS ROBBED and want to believe every one on the planet is conspiring against you then enjoy your ulcers
But prices are going to rise very steeply, particularly B & S prices till they represent the true cost of manufacture & distribution .
And the more Loncin, Lifan Ducar LGT & Preditor engines that get supplied in mowers the more expensive B & S parts will become
Bu it looks like either your mind is shut tight or you like being arguementative.
The logistical costs associated with each item are fairly well the same save the actual trucking freight
If you know any service people ask them about the costs of logistical support for troops anywhere .
But if you get your jollies by racing around screaming WE WAS ROBBED and want to believe every one on the planet is conspiring against you then enjoy your ulcers
But prices are going to rise very steeply, particularly B & S prices till they represent the true cost of manufacture & distribution .
And the more Loncin, Lifan Ducar LGT & Preditor engines that get supplied in mowers the more expensive B & S parts will become
No understand I'm just saying a single barrel carb for an engine should not cost over $300. Manufactures Like MTD, Toro etc. are using these Chinese engines and Kohler actually has a manufacturing facility in China. Briggs has used Daihatsu built Vanguard engines for years, Japan built and one of the best engines on the market.Well done my best to explain the nuts & bolts of it
Bu it looks like either your mind is shut tight or you like being arguementative.
The logistical costs associated with each item are fairly well the same save the actual trucking freight
If you know any service people ask them about the costs of logistical support for troops anywhere .
But if you get your jollies by racing around screaming WE WAS ROBBED and want to believe every one on the planet is conspiring against you then enjoy your ulcers
But prices are going to rise very steeply, particularly B & S prices till they represent the true cost of manufacture & distribution .
And the more Loncin, Lifan Ducar LGT & Preditor engines that get supplied in mowers the more expensive B & S parts will become