CV461s 16 HP. New aftermarket carb, won't run correctly?

[kbowley]

I have been in this business for 16 years. I have never had an engine run properly with a Chinese junk carburetor. All the reviews are BS. If the aftermarket came with a solenoid, you could try that but with the main jet from the junk carb, that was likely causing the surging so it may not work but it's worth a try. Alternatively, you could spray the original solenoid well with carb cleaner after soaking the solenoid overnight with a solvent such as brake cleaner or Liquid Wrench. After soaking, blow out the solenoid well and blast some carb cleaner in it until it sprays back clear. Remove the fuel line from the carburetor and turn it on, if it still flows slowly, get some 1/4" small engine fuel line and a fuel filter from Napa, With the new emission regs requiring low permeation lines, it’s 75 cents a foot or so. Sounds like the fuel inlet, tank outlet, the filter is clogged, or the line is junk. After replacing/cleaning the system and lines so it flows well, hook the line back up to the carb and check flow, it should run out steadily through the needle valve as well as clear. The Kohler Command is as bulletproof as they come if maintained, fix it right the first time and get rid of the headaches. Just get the OEM carb and be done. Guaranteed fix.

 

[TobyU]

I have been in this business for 16 years. I have never had an engine run properly with a Chinese junk carburetor. All the reviews are BS. If the aftermarket came with a solenoid, you could try that but with the main jet from the junk carb, that was likely causing the surging so it may not work but it's worth a try. Alternatively, you could spray the original solenoid well with carb cleaner after soaking the solenoid overnight with a solvent such as brake cleaner or Liquid Wrench. After soaking, blow out the solenoid well and blast some carb cleaner in it until it sprays back clear. Remove the fuel line from the carburetor and turn it on, if it still flows slowly, get some 1/4" small engine fuel line and a fuel filter from Napa, With the new emission regs requiring low permeation lines, it’s 75 cents a foot or so. Sounds like the fuel inlet, tank outlet, the filter is clogged, or the line is junk. After replacing/cleaning the system and lines so it flows well, hook the line back up to the carb and check flow, it should run out steadily through the needle valve as well as clear. The Kohler Command is as bulletproof as they come if maintained, fix it right the first time and get rid of the headaches. Just get the OEM carb and be done. Guaranteed fix.

I have been working on these engines a good bit longer than 16 years but started doing it professionally with high volumes of numbers in 2011.
I have seen plenty of these cheap Chinese carburetors since then that ran just perfectly.
I have seen a lot of problems with the small cube carburetors for string trimmers and blowers etc where they don't even drill the passages right and when they have a high and low speed adjustment on them you can take the low one out and hold it in your hand or turn it all the way in until it seeds and it makes no difference whatsoever so these are mostly junk.

I never believe in replacing a carburetor unless you absolutely have to like because someone took it off and lost it!
Even if you replace it with an oem carburetor, it is likely that the new carburetor you're putting on is nowhere near as good of quality as the old one was when it was new.
Most of the time and I mean like 98 plus percent of the time, carburetors don't wear out. They simply get gummed up or clogged.
I always recommend keeping the carburetor that's on the machine and simply fixing the problem.
But I did want to point out that I have bought a number of eBay and Amazon carburetors that work just flawlessly after I installed them.
A very happy day for me was when a customer brought me a John Deere sb14 or something like that with a Kawasaki on it with no carburetor because he had moved and the shop did not include it when he picked up the mower.
This was a number of years ago and at that current time the cheapest Kawasaki carburetor online was $138 from Amazon maybe that was 158 but it was high.
It had been this way for a number of years. Even used ones on eBay we're going for 85 and 95 bucks but that wasn't really worth the risk because if one person makes one hole just slightly too big you'll never really be able to fix it.
To my happiness and much surprise, I found some cheap aftermarket ones for $36.
I ordered it and installed it and it literally started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
That has been 5 years ago and in fact I just talked to that gentleman today.
Well, he texted me yes, on Easter Sunday because I had that mower in here last year when he had a blade strike and luckily he didn't damage things enough to put the mower out of commission or the engine.
He said it had been in storage all winter long and he just today tried to start it and couldn't get it to fire up.

I ran him through the basic procedure of priming his fuel system a little bit with some spray carb cleaner or just a tablespoon of gas after he removed the air filter and within 15 minutes he texted me back saying he got it running.

I have no doubt that this aftermarket carburetor isn't quite as good or as durable as the original Kawasaki but I've only seen such a few numbers of carburetors actually wear out that I could hold them all in one hand so that number is like maybe three or four max.
These were all on engines well over 15 years old that were used more often than once a week to cut the grass and they all had excessive play and the throttle shaft so it was doing far more than just leaking air around it but the entire throttle shaft was rocking excessively on the top because the hole was either no longer round or was much bigger then it was supposed to be.
So technically, these carburetors wore out.
I'm sure I could have fixed them if it had been a necessity with drilling it out and pressing a bushing in but there was no point because these were Briggs & Stratton carbs on a push mower and a replacement isn't that expensive even for OEM but I did need to point out that while your experience may be your accurate experience, it is not indicative of the entire market of cheap Chinese carburetors online.

In fact, Huayi is one of the most common brand of carburetors that comes from the factory on Chinese built engines including most snow blowers today and for almost 10 years.
Huayi is made in China and they are a very good quality brand of carburetor.
Some of the replacement carburetors for them are not nearly as good as they are but they are all made in China and sold on eBay and Amazon etc so you simply can't use the fact that they are cheap Chinese or eBay and Amazon carburetors to determine if they will be any good or not.

 

[bertsmobile1]

On some of the old flat heads I have needed to ream out the throttle butterfly shaft hole because it it oval and leaking air .
I got a pile of small plastic bushes in a grab bag of stuff at a swap meet some time ago and wadda know one of them is a perfect fit for the shaft .
I never buy carbs from aAmazon or ebay, just had way too many turn up that were defective.
OTOH I do buy a lot from Made In China . com and Alibaba ( not ali express )
Both of these platforms hold your payment in escrow till either 90 days after they are delivered or you reply back that they were good .
And a couple of times I had some arrive damaged in transit so they were replaced and I was refunded to compensate me for my troubles so you can not ague about that.
Down side is searching is quite difficult and most have a MOQ but 10 carbs for the price of 3 is good value in any case and if it is one I am not likely to need again the I keep 2 & put the rest on evilpay with the description "these are not factory rejects they actually work " and they all go in a day or two .

Cube carbs generally come from Farmer Tech they are a tad dearer but I can order a singe carb and they are always plug & play

 

[kbowley]

I have been working on these engines a good bit longer than 16 years but started doing it professionally with high volumes of numbers in 2011.
I have seen plenty of these cheap Chinese carburetors since then that ran just perfectly.
I have seen a lot of problems with the small cube carburetors for string trimmers and blowers etc where they don't even drill the passages right and when they have a high and low speed adjustment on them you can take the low one out and hold it in your hand or turn it all the way in until it seeds and it makes no difference whatsoever so these are mostly junk.

I never believe in replacing a carburetor unless you absolutely have to like because someone took it off and lost it!
Even if you replace it with an oem carburetor, it is likely that the new carburetor you're putting on is nowhere near as good of quality as the old one was when it was new.
Most of the time and I mean like 98 plus percent of the time, carburetors don't wear out. They simply get gummed up or clogged.
I always recommend keeping the carburetor that's on the machine and simply fixing the problem.
But I did want to point out that I have bought a number of eBay and Amazon carburetors that work just flawlessly after I installed them.
A very happy day for me was when a customer brought me a John Deere sb14 or something like that with a Kawasaki on it with no carburetor because he had moved and the shop did not include it when he picked up the mower.
This was a number of years ago and at that current time the cheapest Kawasaki carburetor online was $138 from Amazon maybe that was 158 but it was high.
It had been this way for a number of years. Even used ones on eBay we're going for 85 and 95 bucks but that wasn't really worth the risk because if one person makes one hole just slightly too big you'll never really be able to fix it.
To my happiness and much surprise, I found some cheap aftermarket ones for $36.
I ordered it and installed it and it literally started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
That has been 5 years ago and in fact I just talked to that gentleman today.
Well, he texted me yes, on Easter Sunday because I had that mower in here last year when he had a blade strike and luckily he didn't damage things enough to put the mower out of commission or the engine.
He said it had been in storage all winter long and he just today tried to start it and couldn't get it to fire up.

I ran him through the basic procedure of priming his fuel system a little bit with some spray carb cleaner or just a tablespoon of gas after he removed the air filter and within 15 minutes he texted me back saying he got it running.

I have no doubt that this aftermarket carburetor isn't quite as good or as durable as the original Kawasaki but I've only seen such a few numbers of carburetors actually wear out that I could hold them all in one hand so that number is like maybe three or four max.
These were all on engines well over 15 years old that were used more often than once a week to cut the grass and they all had excessive play and the throttle shaft so it was doing far more than just leaking air around it but the entire throttle shaft was rocking excessively on the top because the hole was either no longer round or was much bigger then it was supposed to be.
So technically, these carburetors wore out.
I'm sure I could have fixed them if it had been a necessity with drilling it out and pressing a bushing in but there was no point because these were Briggs & Stratton carbs on a push mower and a replacement isn't that expensive even for OEM but I did need to point out that while your experience may be your accurate experience, it is not indicative of the entire market of cheap Chinese carburetors online.

In fact, Huayi is one of the most common brand of carburetors that comes from the factory on Chinese built engines including most snow blowers today and for almost 10 years.
Huayi is made in China and they are a very good quality brand of carburetor.
Some of the replacement carburetors for them are not nearly as good as they are but they are all made in China and sold on eBay and Amazon etc so you simply can't use the fact that they are cheap Chinese or eBay and Amazon carburetors to determine if they will be any good or not.

I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.

 

[TobyU]

I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.

Lol.. "right" is very subjective.
I would prefer a shop that gives customers options instead of doing it one way, their way and charging top dollar for it.
But I guess everybody does what they want to do.
You're going to have to clarify though what caught your attention so much in my post and how you fix them right when you seem to infer that I don't.

If you are saying that putting cheap Chinese carburetors or other aftermarkets on a machine is not the right way, you didn't really pay attention to all of my post.

My post was mainly to say I have had good luck with the cheap carburetors on everything larger than the small cube ones but I DID NOT say or infer I made a habit of replacing them on customers machines.
The one specific one I mentioned on the John Deere is the only carb I can actually remember replacing in many years with an aftermarket and one of only two or three I have replaced it all even with OEM in well over a decade.

NOW if you somehow think that keeping the original carburetor on the machine and cleaning and repairing that one so it runs properly is not correct and that putting a new OEM carburetor on would be the "right" then we're going to have to disagree there.

You will notice that I specifically said
"I always recommend keeping the original carburetor on the machine and simply repairing it"

 

[TobyU]

I pity your customers if you do such things. I fix them right, every time.

Oh, I get it now. You are the one that said in your 16 years you have "never" had an engine run properly with a cheap Chinese junk carburetor.
Never is a very specific word.

I get it, you were offended that I somehow disagreed with what you said even though I wasn't being critical of you or your repairs in any way.
I simply pointed out that I have had fine results with a number of those cheap carburetors on walk behind mowers and riders inferring that just because you have never had any luck with them, does not mean they are all bad!

Sorry that that pushed your buttons or whatever and then you felt the need to make a negative comment about my repairs or pitying my customers. Lol
I have been nothing but polite and professional in this thread.

You may pity my customers if you choose but they really do seem to love me as I do have by far the highest rated mower repair business in a hundred mile radius and I have the third most reviews by number in the whole area.
I am known for my attention to detail, doing extras above and beyond without charge and for being extremely great value and economical compared to all the other shops often being half price of what another place would charge if you took your mower to them.

I tried to train my customers all the time not to use that evil word "tune-up" because it's a good way for a shop to list all these points of inspection and checking etc to try to justify their $100 plus and normally more like 124 to 148 to get a standard walk behind push or self-propelled mower in for an annual service or general maintenance.

Then we could discuss the fee for a no start when someone brings a lawn mower in that simply won't start and run. Do most shops even do this? Or do they say it needs a tune-up?

Most customers are simply interested in results.
If all they want was to mow their grass and the mower won't start and they want you to make it start they don't really care how you do it as long as it starts and runs properly and continues to do so for the whole season like any other mower would.

I charge under half of what everyone else in my market charges to accomplish this end result and sometimes I even feel bad about that.

But then again I'm a self-proclaimed human oddity and it's not all about the money for me.

 

[kbowley]

Lol.. "right" is very subjective.
I would prefer a shop that gives customers options instead of doing it one way, their way and charging top dollar for it.
But I guess everybody does what they want to do.
You're going to have to clarify though what caught your attention so much in my post and how you fix them right when you seem to infer that I don't.

If you are saying that putting cheap Chinese carburetors or other aftermarkets on a machine is not the right way, you didn't really pay attention to all of my post.

My post was mainly to say I have had good luck with the cheap carburetors on everything larger than the small cube ones but I DID NOT say or infer I made a habit of replacing them on customers machines.
The one specific one I mentioned on the John Deere is the only carb I can actually remember replacing in many years with an aftermarket and one of only two or three I have replaced it all even with OEM in well over a decade.

NOW if you somehow think that keeping the original carburetor on the machine and cleaning and repairing that one so it runs properly is not correct and that putting a new OEM carburetor on would be the "right" then we're going to have to disagree there.

You will notice that I specifically said
"I always recommend keeping the original carburetor on the machine and simply repairing it"

Of course, I always try to thoroughly clean the original with a strong solvent (Purple Power and Berryman's B-12) in an ultrasonic machine as well as manually when it comes out. I am 97% successful in doing so, however, sometimes you get one that's been sitting for years with bad fuel and completely corroded and not repairable. When it comes to that, I use an OEM carb. I can honestly say that I have never used a cheap knockoff that runs properly throughout the rpm range, some have run "good enough" for my own use, but not for a customer's machine. Customers want them fixed right when they hand over the money and I have never had anyone complain about the cost when it runs as new. Respectfully, Kevin.

 

[TobyU]

Of course, I always try to thoroughly clean the original with a strong solvent (Purple Power and Berryman's B-12) in an ultrasonic machine as well as manually when it comes out. I am 97% successful in doing so, however, sometimes you get one that's been sitting for years with bad fuel and completely corroded and not repairable. When it comes to that, I use an OEM carb. I can honestly say that I have never used a cheap knockoff that runs properly throughout the rpm range, some have run "good enough" for my own use, but not for a customer's machine. Customers want them fixed right when they hand over the money and I have never had anyone complain about the cost when it runs as new. Respectfully, Kevin.

Yes, starting easily and running properly is what the customer is looking for but I have used at least a few but let's just say a handful of these cheap carburetors that did work just fine.
I was quite impressed with the one I put on the Kawasaki engine on the John Deere walk behind mower.
I was skeptical at first and I even told the customer the situation because they had just become available and explain to him that the actual Kawasakis were $138-158 and that we couldn't risk a used one at $95 plus because you never know what someone had done to it before you got it.
I explained that the $36 was a Gamble that might just be wasting our time because we might have to send it back or possibly even eat the cost but that we then might have to go with the OEM carburetor.
He said he was certainly willing to give it a try and wasn't worried about the $36 so I ordered one and was pleasantly surprised when it started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
I have seen this mower twice since then so it's been between 2 and 3 years now that it's been on there and still running just fine.

But as I said, only a small handful of these have I even had to replace because I just don't replace that many carburetors.
You are correct that occasionally you will come across one that is just so old and cruddy or rusty inside that you can't even get them disassembled to attempt to clean so those are just the loss.
I've only had two or three of those though in the past 15 or so years and I certainly done thousands of these machines.

I have had to cannibalize some carbs for parts and sometimes even the new cheapies that I end up with just for some of their parts.

I know a lot of people love ultrasonic cleaners and some people like lemon juice or simple Green etc but I don't own a ultrasonic cleaner and never plan on having one.
I've seen them work and use them but I just see no need to own one myself because I just don't have a desire to use one.
As you said, it's all about getting them running properly because that's what the customer expects and I've always been able to do that without an ultrasonic cleaner...
In fact... Hold on and you might want to sit down....lol.. many, many times even the majority, I don't even remove the carburetor from the machine!
--GASP- I KNOW.... And I've even had some people try to chastise me for this and try to tell me I'm doing it the wrong way or not doing right by my customers etc. Lol
I literally can't laugh hard enough at this.
Now, some of these people are probably the same people who have taken a carburetor off of a machine and thoroughly cleaned it or "rebuilt" it
And then stuck it back on to that same old fuel line without even thoroughly inspecting it etc.

Anyone who would dare criticize my cleaning out a carburetor and making a machine run perfectly without removing it from the machine better first be replacing the entire fuel line (on a push mower you know all 8 to 9 in of it) and they also better be thoroughly flushing out the fuel tank and more than likely removing it from the machine and tilting it all which directions and shaking it around etc.
BEFORE they ever consider criticizing my methods of getting a machine up and running properly.

All the cleaning in the world or even replacing a carburetor isn't going to have the desired long-term results if the fuel line has degraded and pieces are flaking off and self clogging the system.

Yes, I know I'm off on a slight tangent but the point is this really rarely happens.
Some people, especially a lot of shops but even just techs or people with some experience working on their own stuff go way overboard and yes, I consider replacing 8 in of fuel line that isn't bad going way overboard....lol..
It may sound funny or harsh but I'm high volume here or at least I feel the need to be very efficient when I do actually work on things so a piece of fuel line that looks decent and is supple enough that I can squeeze it with my fingers isn't getting replaced.

I'll put my methods and any comebacks and my record and reputation up against absolutely anyone's.

BTW... How many repairs or items do you think the average lawn mower shop repairs each year or each season or each month for the month they actually have business?
You kind of have to take into account that in many places, there is no business for several months out of the year.
A friend of mine likes to watch the Chickanik girl on YouTube and I've watched a grand total of about 72 seconds of one of her videos.

Can't say I'm against her but I can't stand YouTube videos...
He told me one time the numbers she quoted as doing on an annual basis in her shop so can you either share the numbers you have experienced if you do this as a professional shop or if it's just a smaller friends and family thing whatever please specify that and how many items do you think the average shop does or the average tech at a shop and then we can figure out how many text the average shop has.

I like numbers....

 

[kbowley]

Yes, starting easily and running properly is what the customer is looking for but I have used at least a few but let's just say a handful of these cheap carburetors that did work just fine.
I was quite impressed with the one I put on the Kawasaki engine on the John Deere walk behind mower.
I was skeptical at first and I even told the customer the situation because they had just become available and explain to him that the actual Kawasakis were $138-158 and that we couldn't risk a used one at $95 plus because you never know what someone had done to it before you got it.
I explained that the $36 was a Gamble that might just be wasting our time because we might have to send it back or possibly even eat the cost but that we then might have to go with the OEM carburetor.
He said he was certainly willing to give it a try and wasn't worried about the $36 so I ordered one and was pleasantly surprised when it started on the first pull and ran perfectly.
I have seen this mower twice since then so it's been between 2 and 3 years now that it's been on there and still running just fine.

But as I said, only a small handful of these have I even had to replace because I just don't replace that many carburetors.
You are correct that occasionally you will come across one that is just so old and cruddy or rusty inside that you can't even get them disassembled to attempt to clean so those are just the loss.
I've only had two or three of those though in the past 15 or so years and I certainly done thousands of these machines.

I have had to cannibalize some carbs for parts and sometimes even the new cheapies that I end up with just for some of their parts.

I know a lot of people love ultrasonic cleaners and some people like lemon juice or simple Green etc but I don't own a ultrasonic cleaner and never plan on having one.
I've seen them work and use them but I just see no need to own one myself because I just don't have a desire to use one.
As you said, it's all about getting them running properly because that's what the customer expects and I've always been able to do that without an ultrasonic cleaner...
In fact... Hold on and you might want to sit down....lol.. many, many times even the majority, I don't even remove the carburetor from the machine!
--GASP- I KNOW.... And I've even had some people try to chastise me for this and try to tell me I'm doing it the wrong way or not doing right by my customers etc. Lol
I literally can't laugh hard enough at this.
Now, some of these people are probably the same people who have taken a carburetor off of a machine and thoroughly cleaned it or "rebuilt" it
And then stuck it back on to that same old fuel line without even thoroughly inspecting it etc.

Anyone who would dare criticize my cleaning out a carburetor and making a machine run perfectly without removing it from the machine better first be replacing the entire fuel line (on a push mower you know all 8 to 9 in of it) and they also better be thoroughly flushing out the fuel tank and more than likely removing it from the machine and tilting it all which directions and shaking it around etc.
BEFORE they ever consider criticizing my methods of getting a machine up and running properly.

All the cleaning in the world or even replacing a carburetor isn't going to have the desired long-term results if the fuel line has degraded and pieces are flaking off and self clogging the system.

Yes, I know I'm off on a slight tangent but the point is this really rarely happens.
Some people, especially a lot of shops but even just techs or people with some experience working on their own stuff go way overboard and yes, I consider replacing 8 in of fuel line that isn't bad going way overboard....lol..
It may sound funny or harsh but I'm high volume here or at least I feel the need to be very efficient when I do actually work on things so a piece of fuel line that looks decent and is supple enough that I can squeeze it with my fingers isn't getting replaced.

I'll put my methods and any comebacks and my record and reputation up against absolutely anyone's.

BTW... How many repairs or items do you think the average lawn mower shop repairs each year or each season or each month for the month they actually have business?
You kind of have to take into account that in many places, there is no business for several months out of the year.
A friend of mine likes to watch the Chickanik girl on YouTube and I've watched a grand total of about 72 seconds of one of her videos.

Can't say I'm against her but I can't stand YouTube videos...
He told me one time the numbers she quoted as doing on an annual basis in her shop so can you either share the numbers you have experienced if you do this as a professional shop or if it's just a smaller friends and family thing whatever please specify that and how many items do you think the average shop does or the average tech at a shop and then we can figure out how many text the average shop has.

I like numbers....

I have two employees and we are busy year-round. You can research me here if you wish.

 

[TobyU]

I have two employees and we are busy year-round. You can research me here if you wish.

Okay but you still didn't answer my question. I was just trying to get your opinion on how many items a year the average mower repair shop does.
It's obvious you have a typical average repair shop that's open to the public and not just some guy who happens to work on things 3 or 4 days a week in a spare time like many do.
There's nothing wrong with either way of doing it or even other ways I was just trying to gauge what you consider medium or high volume levels are.