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I've got a Cub Cadet XT1 LT1 - purchased at Home Depot. It's been a great mower up until now. It won't start or crank - and keeps blowing the 20 Amp fuse that is inline with the starter solenoid. I can jump the starter with a cable from the positive to the starter -- and it will crank then. I replaced the starter solenoid - and it's still doing it. Any help is greatly appreciiated. I haven't done anything with the wiring harness (no add on lights or horns).... I can't find any bare wires rubbing against the frame ... Any help is appreciated.
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SOLVED!!!!
- The problem as a dead short in the headlight wiring.
- Someone said - start unplugging the various circuits - and see if the fuse blows.
- I Unplugged the front head lights - and could start the engine!
- As it turns out the wires had gotten pulled, and bare sections of wire were contacting one another resulting in a Dead Short.


Model #: 13AOA1CS056
Serial #: 18108H40302
-----------------------------------------
Engine:
Kohler 5400 Series
18 HP /541 cc
KS540
SPEC PS-KS540-3011
MOdel KS540-3011

So you have a dead short
Start by disconnecting the rectifier/regulator plug & see what happens
Note the battery can not recharge when you do this so you get 3 to 5 hours of mowing then the battery goes flat and the fuel solenoid closes so the engine stops .

The question is does it blow the fuse when the key is turned on or just when it is turned to the start position. Blow when turned on would point toward the regulator or the fuel solenoid. Crank could include all the safety switch wiring on the start circuit.

ILENGINE said:

The question is does it blow the fuse when the key is turned on or just when it is turned to the start position. Blow when turned on would point toward the regulator or the fuel solenoid. Crank could include all the safety switch wiring on the start circuit.

Click to expand...

ILENGINE said:

The question is does it blow the fuse when the key is turned on or just when it is turned to the start position. Blow when turned on would point toward the regulator or the fuel solenoid. Crank could include all the safety switch wiring on the start circuit.

Click to expand...

I WAS mistaken - The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!! (With or without the rectifier in the circuit - completely removed)

bertsmobile1 said:

So you have a dead short
Start by disconnecting the rectifier/regulator plug & see what happens
Note the battery can not recharge when you do this so you get 3 to 5 hours of mowing then the battery goes flat and the fuel solenoid closes so the engine stops .

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where the Rectifier / Regulator is. .....

For a logical answer we need the complete model number of your Cub Cadet XT1 tractor and the engine model would also help. (so as we can look at a wiring diagram)model will be something like for example 13AXXXXXXX

Without have the EXACT full model number only thing we can tell you is unplug things and test.
You might have to throw in the towel on this one and take it to a repair shop if you do not have any electrical troubleshooting knowledge or know how to use electrical test instruments.
I have clamp on electrical testers that I can use to immediately monitor DC amps and not ruin fuses instead of just constantly blowing fuses by trial and error.

Fuses are a lot cheaper than wiring harnesses so don't just jumper the fuse holder.

But we do need the model number from the serial number tag of mower and the engine model and spec numbers so we can see what you are dealing with. Otherwise we are blind as to what you have.

And shadetree said you need the knowledge and tools to do the troubleshooting. It can get expensive very fast swapping parts.

I've got some extra in-line type automotive fuse holders and sometimes I have to install them in the branch circuits to determine which circuit has the Overload. The 20 amp fuse is the main fuse for all. Installing a fuse with a 5 or 10 amp rating in a overloaded branch circuit will sometimes blow that fuse instead of the main 20 amp and this gives you a heads up as to which BRANCH circuit has the overload. Your OL should be little bit easier to locate since it is instant. the harder ones to locate are the intermittent Over Loads and adding addition branch circuit fuse holders in this case helps locate which circuit has the OL. lAfter all is normal I usually remove the installed branch circuit fuse holders. You can get the in-line fuse holders at a automotive store but are cheaper on-line.
Here is an example of the fuse holders. You have to keep a heads up when buying replacement fuses or fuses for the fuse holders, their are two different blade widths.


As StarTech says do not ever jumper out the main 20 amp fuse or install a larger rating or you will let out the smoke and ruin the harness plus other things.

or better yet get some resettable ATC fuses.

https://powerwerx.com/resettable-at...MI1bvtvoCk-wIV4idMCh1Rywk-EAQYASABEgKfJ_D_BwE

StarTech said:

or better yet get some resettable ATC fuses.

https://powerwerx.com/resettable-at...MI1bvtvoCk-wIV4idMCh1Rywk-EAQYASABEgKfJ_D_BwE

Click to expand...

Very good
I seen them manually resettable ones from 5-30 amp in a kit on Amazon prime at a reasonable price with free shipping.

From the key switch power goes to the PTO switch then brake switch then the solenoid
If your solenoid has 2 small wires on the bottom ( trigger wires ) check that both of them are isolated from ground

StarTech said:

Fuses are a lot cheaper than wiring harnesses so don't just jumper the fuse holder.

But we do need the model number from the serial number tag of mower and the engine model and spec numbers so we can see what you are dealing with. Otherwise we are blind as to what you have.

And shadetree said you need the knowledge and tools to do the troubleshooting. It can get expensive very fast swapping parts.

Click to expand...

Cub Cadet LT42" XT1
Model: 13AOA1CS056
Serial: 18108H40302

shadetree#1 said:

For a logical answer we need the complete model number of your Cub Cadet XT1 tractor and the engine model would also help. (so as we can look at a wiring diagram)model will be something like for example 13AXXXXXXX

Without have the EXACT full model number only thing we can tell you is unplug things and test.
You might have to throw in the towel on this one and take it to a repair shop if you do not have any electrical troubleshooting knowledge or know how to use electrical test instruments.
I have clamp on electrical testers that I can use to immediately monitor DC amps and not ruin fuses instead of just constantly blowing fuses by trial and error.

Click to expand...

Model: 13AOA1CS056
SERIAL 1B108H40302

Cannot locate a electrical schematic for that model. (it's not in the owners manual)
seen several at this link but?????????
That rig has the electronic dash.
He says the fuse blows when the ignition is in the full start pos.
The ign switch B (12v Battery) contact makes to the S and A1 terminal in the START position.
I would find the S and A1 terminal on the ign switch and disconnect them one at a time to see which branch circuit has the OL. After you unplug the ign switch you can see the letters stamped on the rear of the ign switch by the terminals. On some models this requires removing the gas tank, unplugging the ign switch wires and the ign switch has two plastic retainers in behind the dash that can be squeezed by fingers and pull out the ign switch. I found a similar model once (that was blowing the rear mounted under the battery 20 amp fuse) that after removing the FRONT MOUNTED gas tank to access the ignition switch wire loom plug I seen where wires were rubbed bare on the steering shaft and a mouse had chewed some of the insulation. Also had to replace the fuse holder due to corroded terminals and dirt getting inside. Not a user friendly place to access the fuse holder and starter solenoid on that model Cub.




Anyone find one?

Lack of proper wiring schematics is one of my main problems with Cub Cadet and MTD. They act like we are too stupid to read them. All they want to send me a harness connecting diagram which is totally useless for troubleshooting purposes.

But with this mower having a manual PTO the start (S) terminal on the ignition goes to the brake switch, PTO switch, and then starter solenoid. So disconnect the S terminal at the ignition and test. IF the fuse still blows then it likely the Reverse Inhibit module part of the ignition switch. Otherwise try first unplugging the PTO switch and then brake switch whichever stop the blowing of the fuse the short is after it or the switch itself.

StarTech said:

Lack of proper wiring schematics is one of my main problems with Cub Cadet and MTD. They act like we are too stupid to read them. All they want to send me a harness connecting diagram which is totally useless for troubleshooting purposes.

But with this mower having a manual PTO the start (S) terminal on the ignition goes to the brake switch, PTO switch, and then starter solenoid. So disconnect the S terminal at the ignition and test. IF the fuse still blows then it likely the Reverse Inhibit module part of the ignition switch. Otherwise try first unplugging the PTO switch and then brake switch whichever stop the blowing of the fuse the short is after it or the switch itself.

Click to expand...

Lack of proper wiring schematics is one of my main problems with Cub Cadet and MTD
Very true:
AND
add JD to the list. (even the JD high priced SERVICE manuals tries to hide things.

And some of the Cub Cadet owners manuals indicate to take the machine in to a AUTHORIZED service center just to replace a idler pulley or motion drive belt. I think they should add this note****
Bend over and back in slow when entering the Authorized service center.

shadetree#1 said:

And some of the Cub Cadet owners manuals indicate to take the machine in to a AUTHORIZED service center just to replace a idler pulley or motion drive belt. I think they should add this note****
Bend over and back in slow when entering the Authorized service center.

Click to expand...

At the end of the day how much do you think that Authorized Service Center makes on repairs.

bertsmobile1 said:

So you have a dead short
Start by disconnecting the rectifier/regulator plug & see what happens
Note the battery can not recharge when you do this so you get 3 to 5 hours of mowing then the battery goes flat and the fuel solenoid closes so the engine stops .

Click to expand...

Can you help me locate the Rectifier / Regulator?

JoeFromRomeo said:

Can you help me locate the Rectifier / Regulator?

Click to expand...

With a Kohler engine the most likely location is on the left side of the engine toward the back mounted in the blower housing, or could be tucked up under the housing on the metal shielding held on with two bolts, and will have three wires connected to it. Will be the purple wire on the engine side of the wiring harness.

ILENGINE said:

At the end of the day how much do you think that Authorized Service Center makes on repairs.

Click to expand...

What the layman don't think about is the amount of overhead is involved running a brick and mortar shop with employees. It sorta some the customers I work for back when I was with SRC the company was charging $120 per hr and I was getting $12.50 per hour. Some of comments I got was "It must be nice making $120 per hour.".

And yes it has voltage regulator then try what IL suggested.

Here is couple of pictures of the regulator and how to test and a picture of where it might be located on your engine. If it's not located in this area just look for the regulator that has the 3 wires attached. Yours might be different. If we had the model of your Kohler engine we can tell you where it is or send you a picture. (or you can search on-line using the Kohler engine Model #'s.
Some of them Kohler regulator wiring plugs do not unplug from the regulator easily.
Kohler voltage regulator - - Video Search Results (yahoo.com)



https://www.ebay.com/itm/3844072389...fQr/8+qgtSETdCqmzYrhGLog==|tkp:Bk9SR8bxxfuMYQ

bertsmobile1 said:

From the key switch power goes to the PTO switch then brake switch then the solenoid
If your solenoid has 2 small wires on the bottom ( trigger wires ) check that both of them are isolated from ground

Click to expand...

Mine has two (2) spade bit type slide on connectors. I replaced the starter solenoid thinking that it was the problem, but it is not the problem.

shadetree#1 said:

Here is couple of pictures of the regulator and how to test and a picture of where it might be located on your engine. If it's not located in this area just look for the regulator that has the 3 wires attached. Yours might be different. If we had the model of your Kohler engine we can tell you where it is or send you a picture. (or you can search on-line using the Kohler engine Model #'s.
Some of them Kohler regulator wiring plugs do not unplug from the regulator easily.
Kohler voltage regulator - - Video Search Results (yahoo.com)



https://www.ebay.com/itm/384407238908?hash=item598074f8fc:g:fzkAAOSwDb9hKKXp&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAA8ELU3+dwU9X00UPcUwMNvQZqK32uuJijDuFsScaYxc/+h3yZaVEbajQxN7CtWBD6k4MJmAS2WRsZftxVY9vosYPCIUZXRYbVe1x7Eropbf0pxOuvPo35EmNvRJ8EQm6KfJ24lfAjLRQjAORVU6aENL17fdAgTWVeKu3iXfxZagLN2dmFj1qQuK/eRELs1rv1A06NB9NFydbqG0C5nSmquPKPq2XVHktcgmP7IBXtBx3/dEI60hZFxm++AM4kB2wsE1vfGT8Le+8c61UWTt8bTWeST8Ane/UHyq719JL8w3fQr/8+qgtSETdCqmzYrhGLog==|tkp:Bk9SR8bxxfuMYQ

Click to expand...

Thank You - very much appreciated!

bertsmobile1 said:

So you have a dead short
Start by disconnecting the rectifier/regulator plug & see what happens
Note the battery can not recharge when you do this so you get 3 to 5 hours of mowing then the battery goes flat and the fuel solenoid closes so the engine stops .

Click to expand...

I am still not finding the rectifier/regulator on this engine.

JoeFromRomeo said:

I am still not finding the rectifier/regulator on this engine.

Click to expand...

The voltage regulator is not your problem as it is in the circuit when you are in the run position and you said the fuse only blows in the start position. There is only a few things left that can be the problem and you already replace the starter solenoid. That leaves the ignition, brake, and PTO switches along the associated wiring could be causing the short.
Beside we need which engine model and spec number to see where the regulator is if one is even used.

StarTech said:

The voltage regulator is not your problem as it is in the circuit when you are in the run position and you said the fuse only blows in the start position. There is only a few things left that can be the problem and you already replace the starter solenoid. That leaves the ignition, brake, and PTO switches along the associated wiring could be causing the short.
Beside we need which engine model and spec number to see where the regulator is if one is even used.

Click to expand...

Kohler 5400 Series
18 HP /541 cc
KS540
SPEC PS-KS540-3011
MOdel KS540-3011
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Found that rascal!!!! Back by the starter!
For grins and giggles - I disconnected it - replaced the 20 amp fuse - and tried again. However, the 20 amp fuse blew again.

***StarTech - I WAS mistaken - The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!! (With or without the rectifier in the circuit - completely removed)

Yes that would be the 12/15a half wave rectifier/voltage regulator.

Snip from the SM for your engine.

StarTech said:

Yes that would be the 12/15a half wave rectifier/voltage regulator.

Snip from the SM for your engine.
View attachment 62784

Click to expand...

Yes - that is where I found it. It is a Kohler Part number 25 403 35 010918

***StarTech - I WAS mistaken - The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!! (With or without the rectifier in the circuit - completely removed)

ILENGINE said:

The question is does it blow the fuse when the key is turned on or just when it is turned to the start position. Blow when turned on would point toward the regulator or the fuel solenoid. Crank could include all the safety switch wiring on the start circuit.

Click to expand...

I WAS mistaken - The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!! (With or without the rectifier in the circuit - completely removed)

JoeFromRomeo said:

Yes - that is where I found it. It is a Kohler Part number 25 403 35 010918

***StarTech - I WAS mistaken - The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!! (With or without the rectifier in the circuit - completely removed)

Click to expand...

The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!!


That makes quite a difference electrically. The OL is on A1 (1st position ON) on the ignition switch and it has several additional circuits involved.
Circuits not involved are the voltage regulator.
Most likely the starter solenoid is not involved being a Kohler with the solenoid made on the starter.

Since no electric wiring schematic for that rig I would start by disconnecting any plugs that have a solid red wire in the wire loom, for example disconnect the after fire solenoid on the bottom of the carb, make sure the headlight switch is turned off (some of them Cubs use 12vDC battery power instead of just the stator) then look at the electronic modules and any that have a solid red wire in the wire loom disconnect their PLUGS going to the electronic boards, disconnect the wiring harness plug going to the engine. (normally a big white plastic plug) I would think about un-plugging/disconnecting several of the plugs at once that I see that have a solid red wire (the SMALL solid red insulated wire in the wiring looms is the 12v supply wire and can be switched or not switched and if the fuse does not blow then start plugging them back in one plug at a time until it blows

Did you ever get a manually re-settable circuit breaker? (instead of just using a fuse)
Do you have any rats or mice that might have chewed on your equipment???
Have you had any electrical issues in the past with the rig?

Try unplugging the carburetor fuel solenoid.

If that is the short Kohler wants you to buy a complete carburetor PN 22 853 02-S.

shadetree#1 said:

The Fuse blows when I rotate the ignition switch even to the first setting!!


That makes quite a difference electrically. The OL is on A1 (1st position ON) on the ignition switch and it has several additional circuits involved.
Circuits not involved are the voltage regulator.
Most likely the starter solenoid is not involved being a Kohler with the solenoid made on the starter.

Since no electric wiring schematic for that rig I would start by disconnecting any plugs that have a solid red wire in the wire loom, for example disconnect the after fire solenoid on the bottom of the carb, make sure the headlight switch is turned off (some of them Cubs use 12vDC battery power instead of just the stator) then look at the electronic modules and any that have a solid red wire in the wire loom disconnect their PLUGS going to the electronic boards, disconnect the wiring harness plug going to the engine. (normally a big white plastic plug) I would think about un-plugging/disconnecting several of the plugs at once that I see that have a solid red wire (the SMALL solid red insulated wire in the wiring looms is the 12v supply wire and can be switched or not switched and if the fuse does not blow then start plugging them back in one plug at a time until it blows

Did you ever get a manually re-settable circuit breaker? (instead of just using a fuse)
Do you have any rats or mice that might have chewed on your equipment???
Have you had any electrical issues in the past with the rig?

Click to expand...

I have ordered a set of resettable ATC fuses - but they have not arrived.
The mower is kept in my shed - which hosts many squirrels in the winter - and it's getting cold out - so they are getting into that shed. But I don't see any evidence of chewed or bare wires.
I have not had any electrical issues or starting issues with the mower previously. It's started and ran perfectly. I have also not added any electrical devices to the mower (such as additional lights or horns).

StarTech said:

Try unplugging the carburetor fuel solenoid.

If that is the short Kohler wants you to buy a complete carburetor PN 22 853 02-S.

Click to expand...

Ok, I disconnected the wire on the carburetor fuel solenoid, replaced the 20 Amp ATC fuse - attempted to start it - and it blew the 20 Amp fuse (again). (Note: This was after reconnecting the voltage regulator/rectifier)

Any other words of wisdom? Things to check?

Electronics 101
Disconnect everything in he wiring
starting from the downstream end ( ie bits that bade a direct ground connection 0 reconnect parts one at a time till the fuse pops
The last item connected ( or the wires to it ) will be the culprit
The most common one is a direct short in the rectifier as it is connected to the battery +& the ground as soon as the key gets to the run position

The problem Bert is many OEM here in the states leaves the rectifier/voltage regulator hot all the time (otherwords a non switched circuit) which actually drains the battery over time through parasitic leakage of voltage/current. Some don't even fuse the rectifier/regulator circuit.

Some OEM are beginning to switch to a switched rectifier/voltage regulator circuit but it is still not a common thing.

StarTech said:

The problem Bert is many OEM here in the states leaves the rectifier/voltage regulator hot all the time (otherwords a non switched circuit) which actually drains the battery over time through parasitic leakage of voltage/current. Some don't even fuse the rectifier/regulator circuit.

Some OEM are beginning to switch to a switched rectifier/voltage regulator circuit but it is still not a common thing.

Click to expand...

Kohler had a note a few years ago that basically said that they do not recommend wiring the regulator/rectifier to be battery switched, and on mowers that were battery switched to rewire the purple wire directly to the battery side of the starters solenoid.

It was part of the DSAM to DSAI conversion because they were having so many issues with voltage spikes killing modules. Also we were to add a clamping diode to the clutch wiring to help prevent voltage spikes due to the clutch shutting off becoming a generator.

Actually any inductor (ie coil, solenoid, relay, etc.) can have EMF feedback spikes. Many relays contain such a diode to prevent self engagement of the relays due the EMF oscillation and I have personally seen relays to chatter due to the lack of these diodes.

StarTech said:

Actually any inductor (ie coil, solenoid, relay, etc.) can have EMF feedback spikes. Many relays contain such a diode to prevent self engagement of the relays due the EMF oscillation and I have personally seen relays to chatter due to the lack of these diodes.

Click to expand...

Had a case a few years back in my Kohler region that was running a laptop with the Kohler EFI software. They were having a run issue and had the pto running, and when they shut off the electric clutch is fried the ECU for the Kohler EFI and the the laptop computer that was connected to the diag port.

You asked:
Any other words of wisdom? Things to check?


electronics 101.
Also read post #6 on pg 1, last paragraph
You might consider contacting Cub Cadet and ask them to email you a Electrical wiring schematic.
You might also ask them if your machines electrical wiring schematic is listed within this link and if so you can post up the download link for your machine.

(scroll down to the LT section and see the example link of a electrical schematic at the link I posted)
file:///C:/Users/owner/Downloads/LT%201042%20(2006).pdf

I see a 515 phone number at the top of the page at this link.

If we had a electrical wiring schematic FOR YOUR MACHINE using your model and serial number, we can maybe tell you which individual wires to disconnect and test.

Also note at the bottom of the link wiring schematic the chart showing the key switch diagram that shows B making to A1 (B+A1) when the ignition with is turned on. You can see all the SMALL red wiring branch circuits that are coming off of A1. This is the circuits that I suggest you disconnect. Especially the plug that has the red A1 wire going to the module. One of the small red wires coming off of your A1 terminal on your ignition switch is the source of the OverLoad. (OL)