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Concealed Carry

Jul 21, 2012#1

RobertBrown

This is gun control

Good news!
Friday July 13th 10pm Ocala, Florida
Sam Williams (71) was not charged. The would-be robbers (Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins) were arrested at a nearby hospital.
71 year old Man shoots robbers - Caught on tape! - YouTube

Jul 21, 2012#2

A

Ariena

Absolutely wonderful!

Jul 21, 2012#3

K

KennyV

Perfect... I have always considered Gun Control to be: Your ability to place your shots where you want them..

A perfect Friday the 13 for those 2 would be crooks...
& Good for Florida law, with or without concealed carry, the evil folks out there need to realize everyone Has the right to defend themselves.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
:smile:KennyV

Jul 21, 2012#4

Bison

RobertBrown said:
This is gun control

Good news!
Friday July 13th 10pm Ocala, Florida
Sam Williams (71) was not charged. The would-be robbers (Duwayne Henderson and Davis Dawkins) were arrested at a nearby hospital.
71 year old Man shoots robbers - Caught on tape! - YouTube

Had that happened here in Canada,...Sam Williams would've spend the rest of his life in the pen:confused2:

Jul 21, 2012#5

F

fastback

I guess that's because the pen is mightier than the sword:laughing:

Jul 22, 2012#6

Popeye

Bison said:
Had that happened here in Canada,...Sam Williams would've spend the rest of his life in the pen:confused2:

A good reason for me not to live in Canada. No offense but...

Jul 22, 2012#7

Bison

Popeye said:
A good reason for me not to live in Canada. No offense but...

You're right,..US is much safer

Latest mass shooting proved that,....12 dead...58 wounded.

US has highest per capita people in jail in the world!,...something to be proud of:wink:

We got rifles here plenty(i have 7),just no automatic or AK's,..and no CC or open carry and only can have hand guns with special permit.(criminals have them though)

Jul 22, 2012#8

Ric

Bison said:
You're right,..US is much safer
Latest mass shooting proved that,....12 dead...58 wounded.

US has highest per capita people in jail in the world!,...something to be proud of:wink:

We got rifles here plenty(i have 7),just no automatic or AK's,..and no CC or open carry and only can have hand guns with special permit.(criminals have them though)

(Absolutely Wonderful,....) (Perfect... I have always considered Gun Control to be: Your ability to place your shots where you want them..) what stupid statements.

I agree with you Bison. Wow

Someone needs to take that gun away from the 71 year old man. He was the only dangerous one in the place.

Jul 22, 2012#9

midnite rider

Bison said:
US has highest per capita people in jail in the world!,...something to be proud of:wink:

You are right. A U.S. Justice Department report released on November 30, 2006 showed that a record 7 million people -- or one in every 32 American adults -- were behind bars, on probation or on parole at the end of last year. Of the total, 2.2 million were in prison or jail.
According to the International Centre for Prison Studies at King's College in London, more people are behind bars in the United States than in any other country. China ranks second with 1.5 million prisoners, followed by Russia with 870,000.
The U.S. incarceration rate of 737 per 100,000 people in the highest, followed by 611 in Russia and 547 for St. Kitts and Nevis. In contrast, the incarceration rates in many Western industrial nations range around 100 per 100,000 people.
"The United States has 5 percent of the world's population and 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population. This is mainly due to the U.S.A 's war on drugs.
"We now imprison more people for drug law violations than all of western Europe, with a much larger population, incarcerates for all offences."

Jul 22, 2012#10

midnite rider

Bison said:
We got rifles here plenty(i have 7),just no automatic or AK's,..and no CC or open carry and only can have hand guns with special permit.(criminals have them though)

:ban: GUNS
I would rather take my chances and be able to defend myself and my family then let the criminals be one up on me.

Jul 22, 2012#11

Ric

midnite rider said:
:ban: GUNS
I would rather take my chances and be able to defend myself and my family then let the criminals be one up on me.

Ah Good statement, I would rather take my chances and be able to defend myself. I agree... but the guy in the video doing the shooting was not defending himself that's the problem, he had no business pulling a gun in a public place and endangering everyone else there, he's the guy that would end up getting people killed.

Jul 23, 2012#12

K

KennyV

Ric said:
what stupid statements.

WELCOME back Ric...
Hope you are never in any situation where you wished Someone was armed.

Jul 23, 2012#13

A

Ariena

Ric said:
the guy in the video doing the shooting was not defending himself that's the problem, he had no business pulling a gun in a public place and endangering everyone else there, he's the guy that would end up getting people killed.

But the other two guys had every right to put everyone into the situation where people could be killed????
Duh.
Another example of why we're where we are now!

Jul 23, 2012#14

Bison

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't :confused2:

Jul 23, 2012#15

txzrider

My son asked me once if I could shoot someone... I told him not unless he or my wife were in danger. I have to wonder if the guy in colorado was scared of the eventual law enforcement shooting him?? or the guest in the theater that had a cc permit? The thing is, I like many people are not trained to handle a situation like Colorado, do I think one person in the theater with a concealed handgun, possibly even a typical 380 or 9mm could have made much difference? possibly ! but he also could have drawn the attn of the shooter to himself and gotten everyone around him killed! Now were there to have been several in the theater to have weapons and who were better than I and could hit the guy in all of the confusion, they might have saved the day! I dont think the guy had any intention of getting hurt, he would not have given up so easily to the police if otherwise. Now back to the internet cafe thing, do I think that guy did the right thing? Yes I do. And the results speak for themselves. When faced with any resistance they ran. Anyone that thinks gun control will remove the guns from the criminals is smoking crack.

Jul 23, 2012#16

A

Ariena

Amen. Well said.

Jul 23, 2012#17

Ric

KennyV said:
WELCOME back Ric...
Hope you are never in any situation where you wished Someone was armed.

Kenny anyone with any common sense should know you don't discharge a firearm in a public place in fact to do so is against the law. If you look at the video when the hold up men were moving people around this 71 year old man came running from the back and shot passed two women that could have been hurt say nothing about him missing the bad guy ten feet in front of him and having a chance of a ricochet that could of hurt someone. Lets get real with both party's shooting at each other and lead flying all over the place how much would the story change if somebody other than the bad guys was shoot and killed. This old guy has been watching to many cowboy movies.

Jul 23, 2012#18

K

KennyV

Generally those that take action in this type situation are Not learning as they go. I do Not suspect he was a novice at self defense or firearms @ 71 years old & carrying.
Everyone, myself included, will preform better at a casual target range than during a high stress shoot. Even a well structured PPC will be easier than actual close quarters survival shooting...

The Fact that 2 armed criminals Were hit & no one else, is not by Accident... It is not prudent to Wait until the offence starts shooting Before you take action. (That is what movies may have taught you). It is NOT "against the law" to discharge a fire arm in a public place, when that action is in defense! And you do Not have to wait until a certain number of victims have fallen before you can/should take action.

If you elect to Not defend yourself, okay... but you will Never get Everyone around you to take their chances, and 'Hope for the best' when involved in an armed confrontation. And I will not label your position as "stupid"...

Jul 23, 2012#19

Carscw

In a town not far from me it is a city law that every home owner must own a gun and keep it in there house.
I know your going to say you would not live there but there is no crime no one cooking meth.
You know if you break in to a house you will be shot.

Down the road from me there is a sign says
If you trespass here you will be shot

I do not understand why some want to ban guns
Do you really think it would help anything

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Jul 23, 2012#20

Ric

Carscw said:
In a town not far from me it is a city law that every home owner must own a gun and keep it in there house.
I know your going to say you would not live there but there is no crime no one cooking meth.
You know if you break in to a house you will be shot.

Down the road from me there is a sign says
If you trespass here you will be shot

I do not understand why some want to ban guns
Do you really think it would help anything

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

I'm not for banning guns, I own a number of guns but I believe that guns need to be kept in your house not on your person in a restaurant or cafe. That's just trouble looking to happen.

Jul 23, 2012#21

midnite rider

Carscw said:
In a town not far from me it is a city law that every home owner must own a gun and keep it in there house. Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Yea, the General is not all we are known for. :biggrin:

Carscw said:
I do not understand why some want to ban guns
Do you really think it would help anything Sent from my iPhone using LMF

:ban: I say lets ban automobiles. More people are killed in traffic accidents than anything else besides disease and germs.
According to the World Health Organization there are about 1.2 million People killed in traffic accidents every year, 10 Million are People Injured, costing an estimated $520 Billion!
There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.

Jul 24, 2012#22

RobertBrown

the guy in the video doing the shooting was not defending himself

Not only was he defending himself he was defending the rest of the patrons as well.

Your assertions regarding the circumstances are well founded.
Discharging a firearm under those circumstances is very dangerous, no one with any shooting experience will argue that.
But sitting, and hoping someone else will defend you, or just hoping you don't get robbed or shot is also dangerous.

You look at the video and you see careless disregard, when it's obvious that the Hero was well trained and handled the weapon accordingly. He was able to make the shots and the right decisions under the extreme pressure of a life or death situation.

I will add: That if you should find yourself in a scenario similar to that at the Palms internet cafe on Friday the 13th, and you happen to be the type of person that doesn't like the odds of sitting, waiting and perhaps having to witness an innocent person get assassinated because you were too busy hoping something would happen, hoping someone else will stand up to the gunman, or gunmen in this case, you would have to pick your opportunities carefully. Your time would be limited because it wouldn't be long and the guy with the gun will ask you to empty your pockets, and then your options would be narrowed considerably. You wouldn't have the time to say the lords prayer, plot strategy or form an alliance. You would have to act while both gunmen are in the same line of sight.

Sam decided not to leave his future and the future of the other innocent people in that room to fate, or in God's hands as you may have done. I for one applaud his decision to do so and that opinion is based mostly on the outcome.

Sam executed the task under great pressure and did so quite well, the only problem I have with what he did is:
He didn't make head shots. Head shots would have saved the tax payers a bundle and made for better video.
If you're going to judge Sam Williams, why not judge him on the results? When you judge him on what might have happened, you're only imposing your own limitations on his courage, ability and credibility.
I don't know either one of you but it's my guess that Sam has beaten you in those categories.
If I had to chose between you and Sam. It's pretty clear who I would chose to cover my back should things get crazy, that would be Sam Williams :thumbsup:

Jul 24, 2012#23

txzrider

now that was well reasoned and well spoken!

Jul 26, 2012#24

Bison

I carry "concealed" too,...:laughing:

Jul 26, 2012#25

Ric

RobertBrown said:
Not only was he defending himself he was defending the rest of the patrons as well.

Your assertions regarding the circumstances are well founded.
Discharging a firearm under those circumstances is very dangerous, no one with any shooting experience will argue that.
But sitting, and hoping someone else will defend you, or just hoping you don't get robbed or shot is also dangerous.

You look at the video and you see careless disregard, when it's obvious that the Hero was well trained and handled the weapon accordingly. He was able to make the shots and the right decisions under the extreme pressure of a life or death situation.

I will add: That if you should find yourself in a scenario similar to that at the Palms internet cafe on Friday the 13th, and you happen to be the type of person that doesn't like the odds of sitting, waiting and perhaps having to witness an innocent person get assassinated because you were too busy hoping something would happen, hoping someone else will stand up to the gunman, or gunmen in this case, you would have to pick your opportunities carefully. Your time would be limited because it wouldn't be long and the guy with the gun will ask you to empty your pockets, and then your options would be narrowed considerably. You wouldn't have the time to say the lords prayer, plot strategy or form an alliance. You would have to act while both gunmen are in the same line of sight.

Sam decided not to leave his future and the future of the other innocent people in that room to fate, or in God's hands as you may have done. I for one applaud his decision to do so and that opinion is based mostly on the outcome.

Sam executed the task under great pressure and did so quite well, the only problem I have with what he did is:
He didn't make head shots. Head shots would have saved the tax payers a bundle and made for better video.
If you're going to judge Sam Williams, why not judge him on the results? When you judge him on what might have happened, you're only imposing your own limitations on his courage, ability and credibility.
I don't know either one of you but it's my guess that Sam has beaten you in those categories.
If I had to chose between you and Sam. It's pretty clear who I would chose to cover my back should things get crazy, that would be Sam Williams :thumbsup:

I believe my assertions regarding the circumstances are well founded and discharging a firearm under those circumstances is very dangerous for him and all others in the cafe and in doing so was against the law. Not only is discharging a firearm in a public place against the law but I believe it was against the law for him to even have the gun in the first place.

You can believe what you want, you're entitled to your opinion. You say it' was obvious that the Hero was well trained and handled the weapon accordingly, How do you know that he was well trained and what gave him the right to make decisions under the extreme pressure in a life or death situation for everyone else there. Sorry but I don't want someone else making that decision for me.

Jul 26, 2012#26

Carscw

So would be best to just lay there or sit there and and hope your not the one that gets shot

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Jul 26, 2012#27

txzrider

I have to believe our 71 year old "hero" would have been arrested on the spot had he not had the legal right to have the weapon. As far as being against the law to discharge the weapon in Florida.. that had been in the news for weeks now due to the Zimerman shooting. I think they call it "stand your ground". Were I to have been the 71 y/o, I dont think I would of waited until the bad guy was pointing his weapon at me to do something. He would have lost all advantage of surprise and would be risking putting another weapon on the street when they took his! What we do know from the video is that he had enough expertise to not hit any innocent bystanders and run off the bad guys.

Jul 26, 2012#28

Ric

Carscw said:
So would be best to just lay there or sit there and and hope your not the one that gets shot

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Any Law Enforcement Agency or Officer will tell you this

Try to stay calm. Don't make any sudden movements to upset the robber.
Do exactly as you are told. DO NOT RESIST!
Activate your alarm ONLY if you can do so secretly.
Tell the robber about anything that might surprise him, such as someone who is expected to arrive soon.
If you have to move or reach, tell the robber what you are going to do and why.
Try to get a good look at the robber so you can describe him later.
Don't be a hero. It's better to lose your money than your life.
Give the robber time to leave.
Note his direction of travel when he leaves.
Try to get a description of his vehicle ONLY if you can do so without exposing yourself to harm.

You have to realize that these two guys that were robbing the place wanted to get out of there as fast as the possible, so why not let them take what they want and leave.

Jul 26, 2012#29

Ric

txzrider said:
I have to believe our 71 year old "hero" would have been arrested on the spot had he not had the legal right to have the weapon. As far as being against the law to discharge the weapon in Florida.. that had been in the news for weeks now due to the Zimerman shooting. I think they call it "stand your ground". Were I to have been the 71 y/o, I dont think I would of waited until the bad guy was pointing his weapon at me to do something. He would have lost all advantage of surprise and would be risking putting another weapon on the street when they took his! What we do know from the video is that he had enough expertise to not hit any innocent bystanders and run off the bad guys.

Applying for a license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for self-defense is a right of law-abiding Floridians. However, you must remember that a license to carry a weapon or firearm concealed on your person does not authorize you to use that weapon. Use of a concealed weapon or firearm is regulated by other provisions of Florida law.

This place was an Internet cafe and I don't know but most if not all of those places serve an [SIZE=-1]alcoholic beverage[/SIZE]s and food that's how they make there money and the Florida Statutes pertaining to carrying a concealed weapon or guns says,
[SIZE=-1]Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose you can not carry a gun with or without a carry permit[/SIZE].

Jul 26, 2012#30

Carscw

Only thing left to say is OMFG

He is a brave old man who did what he knew was right

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Jul 26, 2012#31

Ric

KennyV said:
WELCOME back Ric...
Hope you are never in any situation where you wished Someone was armed.

Kenny, I've been there. Stood right next to the guys with the guns. Myself and three of my co-workers and my future wife behind the counter handing the money from the cash drawer and safe over the counter, while the other two hold-up guys with guns emptied six registers and I'm glad there were no cowboys trying to be a hero with a gun.
The cops said we did exactly what we should have done, just what the guys with guns said to do, no shots were fired nobody got hurt..

Jul 26, 2012#32

K

KennyV

Ric said:
...

You have to realize that these two guys that were robbing the place wanted to get out of there as fast as the possible, so why not let them take what they want and leave.

Actually You have to realize, These two guys entered with the intent of committing a Crime using a firearm.... (they wanted to get out of there as fast as possible, Because they met resistance).
The reason NOT to " let them take what they want and leave.' Is because they came prepared to take someones life, & what ever else they wanted... Fortunately there was Someone there With the Courage to prevent that.

Again, since You feel you must rationalize your position by continuing with "your position"
Like I said 'Hope you are never in any situation where you wished Someone was armed'...
But should it happen, You can trust that the criminal(s) confronting you, will appreciate that you are willing to acquiesce...
For myself, I'm not willing to trust the good nature of a criminal... I would not pass the time Hoping for an okay outcome...
I will always rather place my fate in the hands of people with courage, than with those lacking it.
KennyV

Jul 26, 2012#33

K

KennyV

Ric said:
A...
....a license to carry a weapon or firearm concealed on your person does not authorize you to use that weapon.

In the military you are at times required to wait for authorization to use your weapon...
As a citizen of this Country you do not require Authorization... You have to make those judgement calls yourself. Generally if you have a firearm with you, you have already prepared.
If Anyone uses any weapon recklessly, they Usually will be held accountable.

The determination to defend yourself is a life long process... not something you are likely going to acquire suddenly.
I am sure that you Could refrain from the name calling aimed at those that are willing to stand up for themselves. KennyV

Jul 27, 2012#34

RobertBrown

Ric said:
Kenny, I've been there. Stood right next to the guys with the guns. Myself and three of my co-workers and my future wife behind the counter handing the money from the cash drawer and safe over the counter, while the other two hold-up guys with guns emptied six registers and I'm glad there were no cowboys trying to be a hero with a gun.
The cops said we did exactly what we should have done, just what the guys with guns said to do, no shots were fired nobody got hurt..

The circumstances between the 2 events are quite different. 4 men with guns compared with 2 youths with guns. You don't get it, and your not going to
Seems to me, you might still with wrestling with your decision by drawing comparisons between the 2 events and venting these strong feelings of distain.

You were lucky, but you know that.

My hats off to Sam Williams.......He's a hero.
Congratulations to you, you make a great victim.

Jul 27, 2012#35

Carscw

If you put a coil in the oven does it really make it go to working again?
What temp and how long ?

Sent from my iPhone using LMF

Jul 27, 2012#36

txzrider

Ric we have that law in TX as well, if a business derives more than 51% of its revenue from booze, they have to post a sign as we are not allowed to carry inside. Again, if the guy had broken that law I would expect the police to report him and have his license revoked. Since that was not part of the story I am guessing that was not an issue. I agree that you possibly did the right thing with your story regarding standing there as your future wife was handing over the cash... I would never try to second guess or judge you for that, the fact that you all lived to tell stories about it, says it all. However... what if those guys with guns decided to take your future wife as a hostage? What if they decided to do what bad guys often do in those situations? How would you feel then? Would you have second guessed your decision to stand by and watch?

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