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Brigs mower will only start with starting fluid
#1
I
Isaac22
I
Isaac22
Hello I have a brigs 14 hp engine bolted to a lawn mower but there is no drive or deck belt so the motor has no load on it. But the problem is when I go to start it it turn the key the starter will spin the engine for a little bit then stop and it will keep repeating the proses it's getting gas the strange part is when I spray some starting fluid in the carb the starter will keep turning it until it starts it may start and stop a few times then keep cranking to start. But one it starts it run pretty good if you shut it off it won't start without starting fluid And sometimes starting fluid won't help. I first thought an electrical problem but starting fluid wouldn't fix an electrical problem also even if you choke it it doesn't matter it still won't start. I would really apresheate any help
#2
D
darrinster
Check for spark. If no spark remove kill wire from coil. Check spark again.
D
darrinster
Hello I have a brigs 14 hp engine bolted to a lawn mower but there is no drive or deck belt so the motor has no load on it. But the problem is when I go to start it it turn the key the starter will spin the engine for a little bit then stop and it will keep repeating the proses it's getting gas the strange part is when I spray some starting fluid in the carb the starter will keep turning it until it starts it may start and stop a few times then keep cranking to start. But one it starts it run pretty good if you shut it off it won't start without starting fluid And sometimes starting fluid won't help. I first thought an electrical problem but starting fluid wouldn't fix an electrical problem also even if you choke it it doesn't matter it still won't start. I would really apresheate any help
Check for spark. If no spark remove kill wire from coil. Check spark again.
#3
EngineMan
EngineMan
It seems you are getting spark if its firing on starter fluid, engine number and type would help, check to see if there is a fuel solenoid, if so is it working..? make sure there is fuel getting to the carb.
#4
T
Tinkerer200
Good advice above however, I do not see starter fluid having anything to do with carb solenoid.
Some cautions here, holding the starter on for more than a few seconds at a time will over heat and ruin the starter. Too much starter fluid fill score your cylinder wall. Obviously your engine is not getting enough fuel to start it. First check that your linkage is actually closing the choke completely. IF it appears so, check that there is actually a choke plate attached to the carb choke shaft. It is not unknown for the screws to come out.
Walt Conner
T
Tinkerer200
It seems you are getting spark if its firing on starter fluid, engine number and type would help, check to see if there is a fuel solenoid, if so is it working..? make sure there is fuel getting to the carb.
Good advice above however, I do not see starter fluid having anything to do with carb solenoid.
Some cautions here, holding the starter on for more than a few seconds at a time will over heat and ruin the starter. Too much starter fluid fill score your cylinder wall. Obviously your engine is not getting enough fuel to start it. First check that your linkage is actually closing the choke completely. IF it appears so, check that there is actually a choke plate attached to the carb choke shaft. It is not unknown for the screws to come out.
Walt Conner
#5
EngineMan
This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often.......
EngineMan
Good advice above however, I do not see starter fluid having anything to do with carb solenoid.
Some cautions here, holding the starter on for more than a few seconds at a time will over heat and ruin the starter. Too much starter fluid fill score your cylinder wall. Obviously your engine is not getting enough fuel to start it. First check that your linkage is actually closing the choke completely. IF it appears so, check that there is actually a choke plate attached to the carb choke shaft. It is not unknown for the screws to come out.
Walt Conner
This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often.......
#6
BlazNT
Why do you care what others say? Just help people fix their problems and ignore the rest. I do.
BlazNT
This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often.......
Why do you care what others say? Just help people fix their problems and ignore the rest. I do.
#7
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Tinker, if you know a little about fuel systems you would know that starting fluid and fuel solenoids do tell us something about the problem. If the engine fires with fluid but won't continue to run, the solenoid may not be opening properly. It may pop open due to the engine vibration, allowing the engine to run properly until shut down. To the OP, why don't you post model numbers so we can see which engine you have. Would make it alot easier to help you.
#8
I
Isaac22
I
Isaac22
It's a 14hp brigs and Stratton OHV engine its an older engine. I don't think it has a fuel solenoid becuse wouldn't the solinoid be on be on the bowl of the carb. And there is also no wires going to the the carb and solinoids are electric.
#9
D
darrinster
D
darrinster
Remove the carburetor bowl and see if there is a junk floating around. If so, you will need to remove the carburetor and do a full cleaning.
If the carburetor looks clean or after cleaning it do the following. Remove the spark plug, crank engine to make sure no extra fuel is flooding the engine. Clean spark plug, reinstall. When you try and restart it do a full choke and hold your hand over the carburetor opening and see if it starts.
Lastly I would check the flywheel key to make sure it's not broken. Also a valve adjustment would be good to do.
If the carburetor looks clean or after cleaning it do the following. Remove the spark plug, crank engine to make sure no extra fuel is flooding the engine. Clean spark plug, reinstall. When you try and restart it do a full choke and hold your hand over the carburetor opening and see if it starts.
Lastly I would check the flywheel key to make sure it's not broken. Also a valve adjustment would be good to do.
#10
T
Tinkerer200
Rivrts, I expect that in 65 years of engine work I have about as much experience as you with fuel systems.
Walt Conner
T
Tinkerer200
Tinker, if you know a little about fuel systems you would know that starting fluid and fuel solenoids do tell us something about the problem. If the engine fires with fluid but won't continue to run, the solenoid may not be opening properly. It may pop open due to the engine vibration, allowing the engine to run properly until shut down. To the OP, why don't you post model numbers so we can see which engine you have. Would make it alot easier to help you.
Rivrts, I expect that in 65 years of engine work I have about as much experience as you with fuel systems.
Walt Conner
#11
T
Tinkerer200
Yes, a really good example of why you shouldn't.
Walt Conner
T
Tinkerer200
This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often.......
Yes, a really good example of why you shouldn't.
Walt Conner
#12
Carscw
So you have been zero help in finding the problem. But act like you are the only one that could know what the problem is.
Carscw
Yes, a really good example of why you shouldn't. Walt Conner
So you have been zero help in finding the problem. But act like you are the only one that could know what the problem is.
#13
B
bertsmobile1
OK you two,
My place at dawn with Lawnboy's at 100 paces we shall sort this out like gentlemen of honour.
B
bertsmobile1
Yes, a really good example of why you shouldn't.
Walt Conner
OK you two,
My place at dawn with Lawnboy's at 100 paces we shall sort this out like gentlemen of honour.
#14
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Tinker, it does not matter the number of years of experience one has, a simple test is to see if a unit fires when using an external fuel source. If it does, you have narrowed your problem down. Next I would check to see if the fuel solenoid is working. The OP doesn't want to tell us model numbers, so we don't know which engine he has. We can only guess at solutions, that's what EngineMan was doing. Your statement about the relationship was wrong, as they are related, especially when we don't know what engine. Bert, I prefer Toro and who can handle the most beers in the evening, not dawn. Can you arrange that?
#15
B
bertsmobile1
So while The Tinkerman & Engine man as settleling their differences on the field of honour
Lets get back to poor Issac or rather Issac's poor mower.
So to get things right, you engine will only start after a lot of cranking and only after you spray some starter fluid down the carb but once started it runs fine.
Further to this the starter itself will only spin for shortish periods and cut out while you still have the key turned to the start position.
What I see are several problems most likely due to insufficient maintenance.
1) your starter motor / starter solenoid is on the way out, hence the warning about over cranking, starters are not very robust and easily damaged.
2) the carb has a problem at idle / start position identified by the fact it will eventually start with starter fluid.
3) there may be an electrical problem causing the fuel shut off solenoid to malfunction.
Because we only have what you type in to make our diagnosis and because every one sees & hears things differently this becomes even more difficult.
So rather than try and make my best guess, I would advise starting with the mechanical then going to the electrical.
The order is not particularly important.
1) remove the cowel and inspect the flywheel key. It must be a perfect square .
2) remove the rocker cover and check the valve clearences
3) look closely at the choke butterfly ( it is the one at the air filter side of the carb ), it must close fully.
4) remove the carb solenoid and turn the engine on & off watch for it opening fully every time you turn the key.
5) test the solenoid while the engine is cranking with a spark plug fitted , if it bounces, quivers or closes while the engine is cranking you have a power supply problem.
6) Remove the float bowl and crank the engine wile spraying water all over the carb mountings then remove the spark plug. If it is wet you are sucking air and need to replace the carb & manifold gaskets.
7) remove the carb and with a spray can of carb cleaner , WD 40 or similar that has a long nozel on the trigger, spray fluid backwards down the carb through all the holes to make sure they are clear.
Some of these holes are tiny. particularly the 1 or 2 that are in the side of the carb in front ( engine side ) of the throttle butterfly these are the ones that start the engine.
B
bertsmobile1
Hello I have a brigs 14 hp engine bolted to a lawn mower but there is no drive or deck belt so the motor has no load on it. But the problem is when I go to start it it turn the key the starter will spin the engine for a little bit then stop and it will keep repeating the proses it's getting gas the strange part is when I spray some starting fluid in the carb the starter will keep turning it until it starts it may start and stop a few times then keep cranking to start. But one it starts it run pretty good if you shut it off it won't start without starting fluid And sometimes starting fluid won't help. I first thought an electrical problem but starting fluid wouldn't fix an electrical problem also even if you choke it it doesn't matter it still won't start. I would really apresheate any help
So while The Tinkerman & Engine man as settleling their differences on the field of honour
Lets get back to poor Issac or rather Issac's poor mower.
So to get things right, you engine will only start after a lot of cranking and only after you spray some starter fluid down the carb but once started it runs fine.
Further to this the starter itself will only spin for shortish periods and cut out while you still have the key turned to the start position.
What I see are several problems most likely due to insufficient maintenance.
1) your starter motor / starter solenoid is on the way out, hence the warning about over cranking, starters are not very robust and easily damaged.
2) the carb has a problem at idle / start position identified by the fact it will eventually start with starter fluid.
3) there may be an electrical problem causing the fuel shut off solenoid to malfunction.
Because we only have what you type in to make our diagnosis and because every one sees & hears things differently this becomes even more difficult.
So rather than try and make my best guess, I would advise starting with the mechanical then going to the electrical.
The order is not particularly important.
1) remove the cowel and inspect the flywheel key. It must be a perfect square .
2) remove the rocker cover and check the valve clearences
3) look closely at the choke butterfly ( it is the one at the air filter side of the carb ), it must close fully.
4) remove the carb solenoid and turn the engine on & off watch for it opening fully every time you turn the key.
5) test the solenoid while the engine is cranking with a spark plug fitted , if it bounces, quivers or closes while the engine is cranking you have a power supply problem.
6) Remove the float bowl and crank the engine wile spraying water all over the carb mountings then remove the spark plug. If it is wet you are sucking air and need to replace the carb & manifold gaskets.
7) remove the carb and with a spray can of carb cleaner , WD 40 or similar that has a long nozel on the trigger, spray fluid backwards down the carb through all the holes to make sure they are clear.
Some of these holes are tiny. particularly the 1 or 2 that are in the side of the carb in front ( engine side ) of the throttle butterfly these are the ones that start the engine.
#16
Carscw
His engine does not have a anti backfire solenoid.
Carscw
So while The Tinkerman & Engine man as settleling their differences on the field of honour Lets get back to poor Issac or rather Issac's poor mower. So to get things right, you engine will only start after a lot of cranking and only after you spray some starter fluid down the carb but once started it runs fine. Further to this the starter itself will only spin for shortish periods and cut out while you still have the key turned to the start position. What I see are several problems most likely due to insufficient maintenance. 1) your starter motor / starter solenoid is on the way out, hence the warning about over cranking, starters are not very robust and easily damaged. 2) the carb has a problem at idle / start position identified by the fact it will eventually start with starter fluid. 3) there may be an electrical problem causing the fuel shut off solenoid to malfunction. Because we only have what you type in to make our diagnosis and because every one sees & hears things differently this becomes even more difficult. So rather than try and make my best guess, I would advise starting with the mechanical then going to the electrical. The order is not particularly important. 1) remove the cowel and inspect the flywheel key. It must be a perfect square . 2) remove the rocker cover and check the valve clearences 3) look closely at the choke butterfly ( it is the one at the air filter side of the carb ), it must close fully. 4) remove the carb solenoid and turn the engine on & off watch for it opening fully every time you turn the key. 5) test the solenoid while the engine is cranking with a spark plug fitted , if it bounces, quivers or closes while the engine is cranking you have a power supply problem. 6) Remove the float bowl and crank the engine wile spraying water all over the carb mountings then remove the spark plug. If it is wet you are sucking air and need to replace the carb & manifold gaskets. 7) remove the carb and with a spray can of carb cleaner , WD 40 or similar that has a long nozel on the trigger, spray fluid backwards down the carb through all the holes to make sure they are clear. Some of these holes are tiny. particularly the 1 or 2 that are in the side of the carb in front ( engine side ) of the throttle butterfly these are the ones that start the engine.
His engine does not have a anti backfire solenoid.
#17
EngineMan
EngineMan
I did say "check to see if there is a fuel solenoid, if so is it working..? make sure there is fuel getting to the carb." numbers off the engine or even a photo would help.
#18
T
Tinkerer200
Now that can't be possible, after all, how can starter fluid fix it if it doesn't have one? But then, I don't know anything about fuel systems.
Walt Conner
T
Tinkerer200
His engine does not have a anti backfire solenoid.
Now that can't be possible, after all, how can starter fluid fix it if it doesn't have one? But then, I don't know anything about fuel systems.
Walt Conner
#19
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry I must have missed something .
All I remember reading was it is a 14Hp OHV engine with a starting problem.
B
bertsmobile1
His engine does not have a anti backfire solenoid.
Sorry I must have missed something .
All I remember reading was it is a 14Hp OHV engine with a starting problem.
#20
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Tinker, I had a lot of respect for you, until you got involved in this thread. I suggest you reread the posts and you will see a problem with your thinking.
Post #1. The OP explained his problem and asked for help.
Post #3. EngineMan advise the OP to check the fuel shut off solenoid IF HE HAD ONE, and to see if it is working. A legitimate question as the OP did not provide engine numbers and we have no idea which model he was working on.
Post #7. I pointed out that if using starting fluid as a troubleshoot tool if there was a fuel solenoid. I also asked the OP to post engine model numbers.
Post #8. The OP reported for the first time there was no fuel solenoid, but still didn't provide numbers.
After that this thread went haywire, because of two thing. Personal problems and failure for us to know the exact model of engine. You made assumptions, instead of reading carefully each post.
To the OP, please look at your engine carefully and find the model, type and code numbers. When we get those numbers we will know exactly which engine you have. Bert and Darrinster have given you very good broad things to look for, but when we have a better picture of your engine we can be much more exact.
Bert, are you still trying to put together the challenge of the most beers in the evening, or does that not work for you?
Post #1. The OP explained his problem and asked for help.
Post #3. EngineMan advise the OP to check the fuel shut off solenoid IF HE HAD ONE, and to see if it is working. A legitimate question as the OP did not provide engine numbers and we have no idea which model he was working on.
Post #7. I pointed out that if using starting fluid as a troubleshoot tool if there was a fuel solenoid. I also asked the OP to post engine model numbers.
Post #8. The OP reported for the first time there was no fuel solenoid, but still didn't provide numbers.
After that this thread went haywire, because of two thing. Personal problems and failure for us to know the exact model of engine. You made assumptions, instead of reading carefully each post.
To the OP, please look at your engine carefully and find the model, type and code numbers. When we get those numbers we will know exactly which engine you have. Bert and Darrinster have given you very good broad things to look for, but when we have a better picture of your engine we can be much more exact.
Bert, are you still trying to put together the challenge of the most beers in the evening, or does that not work for you?
#21
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Actually I am a red drinker .
Used to pot a lot of stout in the youth, not really a beer man.
But the boys are welcome to come on down & settle things on neutral territory.
We all get cranky at times, even me , and when not cranky I can get terse and then there is my weird sense of humour that makes other cranky.
It is dissappointing that admin does not do a sticky or use a "first post" button that comes up with a template so posters supply the minimum information required to diagnose their problems.
I missed the bit in the post where the OP said it had no solenoid and was going to back out of this one as the OP still has not posted numbers.
I am happy to help any one with anything but if they can not be bothered to help themselves then I am out of here.
My posts are not for the purpose of boosting my ego or raising my self esteem, they are just there to help people and keep myself current.
The shop turns over about 5- 10 jobs a week off season & 15-20 a week on season .
This forum brings up 20-30 problems a day, so it is a 2 way thing for me we get a lot of "dud" mowers shipped down here so we won't know they have design flaws.
Thus problems with a new model over there will surface here a few years latter.
AFAIK we don't have a single mower with a 7000 series Kohler but we did get a rash Commands fitted to everything.
Australia has been a dumping ground for what the world does not want starting with the first boat load of convicts .
Actually this will be the last post on this one.
Issac still has not come up with numbers or even a photo so he can work it out himself.
Used to pot a lot of stout in the youth, not really a beer man.
But the boys are welcome to come on down & settle things on neutral territory.
We all get cranky at times, even me , and when not cranky I can get terse and then there is my weird sense of humour that makes other cranky.
It is dissappointing that admin does not do a sticky or use a "first post" button that comes up with a template so posters supply the minimum information required to diagnose their problems.
I missed the bit in the post where the OP said it had no solenoid and was going to back out of this one as the OP still has not posted numbers.
I am happy to help any one with anything but if they can not be bothered to help themselves then I am out of here.
My posts are not for the purpose of boosting my ego or raising my self esteem, they are just there to help people and keep myself current.
The shop turns over about 5- 10 jobs a week off season & 15-20 a week on season .
This forum brings up 20-30 problems a day, so it is a 2 way thing for me we get a lot of "dud" mowers shipped down here so we won't know they have design flaws.
Thus problems with a new model over there will surface here a few years latter.
AFAIK we don't have a single mower with a 7000 series Kohler but we did get a rash Commands fitted to everything.
Australia has been a dumping ground for what the world does not want starting with the first boat load of convicts .
Actually this will be the last post on this one.
Issac still has not come up with numbers or even a photo so he can work it out himself.
#22
T
Tinkerer200
T
Tinkerer200
"I had a lot of respect for you, until you got involved in this thread. I suggest you reread the posts and you will see a problem with your thinking."
Same here and I think YOU need to do some rereading. . I made suggestions in my first post such as checking the linkage to see if the choke was closing for one which should have been the first suggestion and offered cautions about prolonged starter running and starter fluid use. I said good suggestions above but did not see where a carb solenoid would be cured with starter fluid which was being put forward for the symptoms OP was having. For my trouble I got the following comments.
"This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often..."
"So you have been zero help in finding the problem. But act like you are the only one that could know what the problem is."
Your explanation about vibrating a stuck solenoid loose made sense though a long shot but you weren't content to stop there, you had to add a little zinger,
"Tinker, if you know a little about fuel systems you would know that starting fluid and fuel solenoids do tell us something about the problem."
I never said a thing about starter fluid and fuel solenoids not being useful for diagnosis, I said I did not see where the two fit the problems OP was having and as it turns out, they did not.
Now you and others have made a rather big deal about OP not posting model numbers, I to often do that however, odds are pretty narrow as to what the engine is. I doubt very much that OP will be back, he is likely over whelmed by the congeniality he has witnessed here.
OP, if you are still here, or come by, I can send you a Service Manual for your engine IF you like and can point you somewhere where you can get help.
Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com
Same here and I think YOU need to do some rereading. . I made suggestions in my first post such as checking the linkage to see if the choke was closing for one which should have been the first suggestion and offered cautions about prolonged starter running and starter fluid use. I said good suggestions above but did not see where a carb solenoid would be cured with starter fluid which was being put forward for the symptoms OP was having. For my trouble I got the following comments.
"This is a good example why I don't come on here and give answers to the post that often..."
"So you have been zero help in finding the problem. But act like you are the only one that could know what the problem is."
Your explanation about vibrating a stuck solenoid loose made sense though a long shot but you weren't content to stop there, you had to add a little zinger,
"Tinker, if you know a little about fuel systems you would know that starting fluid and fuel solenoids do tell us something about the problem."
I never said a thing about starter fluid and fuel solenoids not being useful for diagnosis, I said I did not see where the two fit the problems OP was having and as it turns out, they did not.
Now you and others have made a rather big deal about OP not posting model numbers, I to often do that however, odds are pretty narrow as to what the engine is. I doubt very much that OP will be back, he is likely over whelmed by the congeniality he has witnessed here.
OP, if you are still here, or come by, I can send you a Service Manual for your engine IF you like and can point you somewhere where you can get help.
Walt Conner
wconner5 at frontier dot com
#23
I
Isaac22
I
Isaac22
Re: Brigs mower will only start with starting flui
I started it up a week ago and the engine blew there was a ping pong - golf ball sized hole near the starter I took the engine apart and discovered the conecticting rod broke and nocked the hole its done not worth fixing
I started it up a week ago and the engine blew there was a ping pong - golf ball sized hole near the starter I took the engine apart and discovered the conecticting rod broke and nocked the hole its done not worth fixing
#24
BlazNT
BlazNT
Sorry to hear that. Hope you can find a replacement engine.
#25
I
Isaac22
I
Isaac22
We are actually going to get a Hevey duty mower off of cragslist for 200-400 dollors becuse that is what an engine would cost. Oh and if you want to see a video of the damage type in Isaac Voeller on YouTube and you will find my Chanel that has the video on it
#26
R
rdalcanto
R
rdalcanto
I have a riding mower that had the same problem. 20 month old Poulan Pro 46 in. 20 HP V-Twin Briggs & Stratton Automatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower Model # 206463203. Turns out my problem was the choke wasn't closing. I use my mower in the winter as a snowblower. When I put it away in the spring it worked great. I drained the Ethanol free fuel, changed fuel filter, air filter, and oil. I went to start it up two days ago (after not running for 7 months) with fresh fuel, and it would turn over but not start. I sprayed starter fluid in the air intake and it started immediately and ran perfectly up and down the street. Next day, it would not start again. Thanks to this thread, I checked the throttle cable that moves the choke. After full throttle, when I went to the choke setting, it would only raise the choke a tiny bit at the end of the throw. So I adjusted the throttle cable by loosening the bolt that holds it in place and moving it so that it would start lifting the choke as soon as I went past full throttle and started going into choke position. Now engine starts immediately! Thanks guys!
#27
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
So after you get it running it runs all the way through from high speed to idle ????? If so then you did the right thing by adjusting the cable................
Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
I have a riding mower that had the same problem. 20 month old Poulan Pro 46 in. 20 HP V-Twin Briggs & Stratton Automatic Gas Front-Engine Riding Mower Model # 206463203. Turns out my problem was the choke wasn't closing. I use my mower in the winter as a snowblower. When I put it away in the spring it worked great. I drained the Ethanol free fuel, changed fuel filter, air filter, and oil. I went to start it up two days ago (after not running for 7 months) with fresh fuel, and it would turn over but not start. I sprayed starter fluid in the air intake and it started immediately and ran perfectly up and down the street. Next day, it would not start again. Thanks to this thread, I checked the throttle cable that moves the choke. After full throttle, when I went to the choke setting, it would only raise the choke a tiny bit at the end of the throw. So I adjusted the throttle cable by loosening the bolt that holds it in place and moving it so that it would start lifting the choke as soon as I went past full throttle and started going into choke position. Now engine starts immediately! Thanks guys!
So after you get it running it runs all the way through from high speed to idle ????? If so then you did the right thing by adjusting the cable................
Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!
#28
P
Pumper54
P
Pumper54
To really blow the dust off this thread I looked at Isaac's YouTube channel and it seems that Master Isaac sounds like a young Lad so he might not have known to provide all the information that was requested several years ago. AND there is a very nice sized hole in the engine block so that motor is most likely toast.
Tom
Tom