Hi all! Ok back in the summer my girl friend bought a Br600. It worked very well for about the first few months. Really not a ton of use. I guess only 5 tanks of gas so far. Over the winter i used it to blow dry snow off the drive way. It start to get hard to start and then it would not start. So I took it back to the dealer as it was under warranty. The dealer tell me it would not start because the plug was oil fouled. Says I was running the wrong oil in it as you can only run stihl oil in it because of the valves. (Let me stop here for a minute, my trade is I'm an auto technician. So I'm not a new comer to engines) I have a lot of experience with 2 cycle. My dad owned a 600 acre tree farm. So lots of experience with 2 cycle. For 40 years or so we ran evinrude (Yes) boat oil in all our 2 cycle engines. In all them years we had never burnt up and engine using that oil. At one time I remember having 9 chain saws, mostly stihl, but a few cheap little homelite saws. I still have one of them cheap homelites that's got to be 35 years old and it's still runs with a few repairs, but still the same engine. Plus weed/brush wackers and so on. This is my first time with a 4 mix engine. **Do they really need stihl oil??** I probably wouldn't be type this thread if they didn't give us a bill for repairing it and it just need stihl oil. Also now that I know about the 4 mix I will adjust the valves from time to time. I'm kinda wondering if really the valves just came out of adjustment. The bill was not big, only 38 bucks. But blower was only 7 month old. Thanks Ed
Br 600 Hard starting to no start
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bertsmobile1
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The hybrid engines are new technology and unlike the 35 yea old homelite are in a higher state of tune .
The old "Your fault because you use the wrong oil" line is a standard fall back for we don't know & can't be bothered to find out.
However running marine oil in land engines can cause problems.
Any synthetic or semi synthetic modern ashless 2 stroke oil should be fine.
However you need to be very careful with the mix
A little leaner is better than a little too much oil
If the plug is oil fouling the the oil you are using is not mixing properly or you are using too much .
When Victas were the predominant lawn mower down here oil fouled hand held equipment was a big problem because the mowers originally ran 25:1 using car oil and lazy owners would use the same mix in everything .
When the Power torque was introduced in 1972 the board decided not to use the designed 50:1 mix using proper 2 stroke oil for fear the "Old timers" would continue to use engine oil & generate a massive amount of warranty claims .
The end result of this was engines that needed new plugs every season and like your blower oil fouled the plugs so were hard to start so the owners got fed up with pulling the starter 50 times & replaced their dirty 2 stroke with a 4 stroke .
And FWIW the same engine will run happily on 100:1 as was found out when they were trying to make it tier II compliant .
I use whatever modern 2 cycle oil that I get on special when I am getting low ( 5 gallon cans ) and run everything on 50:1 regardless of what the original mix was supposed to be .
It has not caused any problem with my gear or my customers gear .
The old "Your fault because you use the wrong oil" line is a standard fall back for we don't know & can't be bothered to find out.
However running marine oil in land engines can cause problems.
Any synthetic or semi synthetic modern ashless 2 stroke oil should be fine.
However you need to be very careful with the mix
A little leaner is better than a little too much oil
If the plug is oil fouling the the oil you are using is not mixing properly or you are using too much .
When Victas were the predominant lawn mower down here oil fouled hand held equipment was a big problem because the mowers originally ran 25:1 using car oil and lazy owners would use the same mix in everything .
When the Power torque was introduced in 1972 the board decided not to use the designed 50:1 mix using proper 2 stroke oil for fear the "Old timers" would continue to use engine oil & generate a massive amount of warranty claims .
The end result of this was engines that needed new plugs every season and like your blower oil fouled the plugs so were hard to start so the owners got fed up with pulling the starter 50 times & replaced their dirty 2 stroke with a 4 stroke .
And FWIW the same engine will run happily on 100:1 as was found out when they were trying to make it tier II compliant .
I use whatever modern 2 cycle oil that I get on special when I am getting low ( 5 gallon cans ) and run everything on 50:1 regardless of what the original mix was supposed to be .
It has not caused any problem with my gear or my customers gear .
bertsmobile1
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No it is just a fully synthetic 2 cycle oil sold at a very healthy mark up
Dozens on my commercial customers running these machines on Stens oil puts pays to the tosh you read on line
Every body now days reads 2 face book posts and becomes an instant expert .
Then they repost the reposted reposts so whatever they say becomes an undisputed fact .
On a scale of 1 to 10. I put my understanding of oils at about 6 and I had to study them twice during my undergraduate years then taught a very limited amount for another 10 years.
Synthetics have made a massive difference because that 0.001% of this & that actually does make a difference .
In most cases we never knew they were there because methods of chemical & molecular analysis were a bit crude in the past but now days we have the tools to enable assays to close +/- 0.0001%
Back in my days if an assay closed to within 2 x the system error then we considered it close & just listed the impurities followed by "balance ( major element ) "
Weather it is significant is a whole different matter.
The internet corrupts facts very quickly
The detergent : dispersant relationship is a prime example
They are not the same things chemically but according to the web they are .
What things mean & what the mass of the population thinks they mean are two totally different things
Dozens on my commercial customers running these machines on Stens oil puts pays to the tosh you read on line
Every body now days reads 2 face book posts and becomes an instant expert .
Then they repost the reposted reposts so whatever they say becomes an undisputed fact .
On a scale of 1 to 10. I put my understanding of oils at about 6 and I had to study them twice during my undergraduate years then taught a very limited amount for another 10 years.
Synthetics have made a massive difference because that 0.001% of this & that actually does make a difference .
In most cases we never knew they were there because methods of chemical & molecular analysis were a bit crude in the past but now days we have the tools to enable assays to close +/- 0.0001%
Back in my days if an assay closed to within 2 x the system error then we considered it close & just listed the impurities followed by "balance ( major element ) "
Weather it is significant is a whole different matter.
The internet corrupts facts very quickly
The detergent : dispersant relationship is a prime example
They are not the same things chemically but according to the web they are .
What things mean & what the mass of the population thinks they mean are two totally different things
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As Bert enluded to it is just a con job to sell their products. Yes most OEM will push their products.
Here I use a synthetic 2 cycle multi mix oil with fuel stabilizers in everything. One of the problems with Stihl is they tend to ran their equipment on the rich side in the first place. This causes problems in the exhaust system with lots of clogged spark arresters.
The OP was lucky to find a dealer that had knowledgeable techs. Here the two dealers I deal with don't but that is okay as I get their business service wise and they get just to sell me parts.
BTW a customer of mine burned up a Poulan leaf blower of mine using the Stihl oil. Either that or he straight gassed it.
Here I use a synthetic 2 cycle multi mix oil with fuel stabilizers in everything. One of the problems with Stihl is they tend to ran their equipment on the rich side in the first place. This causes problems in the exhaust system with lots of clogged spark arresters.
The OP was lucky to find a dealer that had knowledgeable techs. Here the two dealers I deal with don't but that is okay as I get their business service wise and they get just to sell me parts.
BTW a customer of mine burned up a Poulan leaf blower of mine using the Stihl oil. Either that or he straight gassed it.
bertsmobile1
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I would be interested in seeing them
Having been involved in publishing journals it is not uncommon for them to just reprint the bumph that the oil companies / equipment companies produce to justify their product to fill some vaccant pages.
Remember Dr Wakefields highly flawed research into MMR vaccines got published in over 50 medical & scientific journals and while he was eventually exposed as being a scammer in the pay of solicitors trying to sue for damages once the genie was out of the bottle it was impossible to get it back in .
And that list went from highly respected medial journals like The Lancett & the Harvard Medical journal right through to consummer magazines like Popular Science and of course TIME
Now the anti-vax movement that his original paper gave rise to is a massive industry with a turn over higher than the medical budgets for most of the smaller EU countries .
A good parent teaches their children to read
A wise parent teaches their children to question what they read
Having been involved in publishing journals it is not uncommon for them to just reprint the bumph that the oil companies / equipment companies produce to justify their product to fill some vaccant pages.
Remember Dr Wakefields highly flawed research into MMR vaccines got published in over 50 medical & scientific journals and while he was eventually exposed as being a scammer in the pay of solicitors trying to sue for damages once the genie was out of the bottle it was impossible to get it back in .
And that list went from highly respected medial journals like The Lancett & the Harvard Medical journal right through to consummer magazines like Popular Science and of course TIME
Now the anti-vax movement that his original paper gave rise to is a massive industry with a turn over higher than the medical budgets for most of the smaller EU countries .
A good parent teaches their children to read
A wise parent teaches their children to question what they read
The difference between the Stihl Ultra synthetic and standard 2 cycle mix oil is important to all of the Stihl 2 cycle engines with valves. The molecular size of the regular 2 cycle oil is comparatively sized to a ping pong ball. The synthetic would be the the size of a 1mm BB. The manner in which the engines are constructed requires an un-pressurized oil to migrate behind the cam and valve pins, as well as into the valve guides. The synthetic oil can get into those spaces while the heavier oils cannot, resulting in wear to the block and valve cover that can result in the engine being not cost effective to repair.
bertsmobile1
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Have a little think about what you just posted and remember that the lubricant is dispersed in the fuel
Now if you are talking about an oil filled item like a gear box then this makes sense as oil galleries are machined to facilitate a particular flow rate with a particular viscosity lubricant .
In your comparison, which is true as controling molecule size & size distribution is one of the benefits of synthetic oils ,the gap between the manufactured parts would be basketball .
IF the Stihl oil was significantly different to any other fully synthetic 2 cycle oil then it would be over $ 100 a pint not $ 20 a pint .
At that price the most different it could be is having a different addative package blended into standard a synthetic oil base
The machined spaces between the moving parts in a Stihl Forcycle engine is not much different to those of a Honda GX 22, 25,30, 35, or 45 engine and while they are real 4 stroke engines with a sump they have no oil pump and rely on splash & oil mist to lube the top end
From the 30's through to the 70's a host of motorcycle engines used ( oil mist - oil vapour) to lubricate the valve train and in some cases the cam as well .
Basically nothing more than crankcase fume .
Now if you are talking about an oil filled item like a gear box then this makes sense as oil galleries are machined to facilitate a particular flow rate with a particular viscosity lubricant .
In your comparison, which is true as controling molecule size & size distribution is one of the benefits of synthetic oils ,the gap between the manufactured parts would be basketball .
IF the Stihl oil was significantly different to any other fully synthetic 2 cycle oil then it would be over $ 100 a pint not $ 20 a pint .
At that price the most different it could be is having a different addative package blended into standard a synthetic oil base
The machined spaces between the moving parts in a Stihl Forcycle engine is not much different to those of a Honda GX 22, 25,30, 35, or 45 engine and while they are real 4 stroke engines with a sump they have no oil pump and rely on splash & oil mist to lube the top end
From the 30's through to the 70's a host of motorcycle engines used ( oil mist - oil vapour) to lubricate the valve train and in some cases the cam as well .
Basically nothing more than crankcase fume .