Ariens Zoom 42 mulching problem

[djdicetn]

Hi everybody,

I have a brand new 2013 Zoom 42 with the mulching kit installed by the dealer. From the beginning, i new that there was something wrong. Every time I use it, there's grass clipping is flying in the air and falling on the deck, the leg rest and all over my legs. The grass is coming mainly from the front right side of the deck just behind the front right tire. First I ask my dealer if it was normal and they says to slow down while mowing and to not cut to much grass at the same time. All of this make sense and I tried it without much success. I then contact ariens client support and we manage to find that the dealer forgot to remove the rear baffle (the one that have a "3" shape) when installing the kit. I removed it and now it's better but still far from perfect. I'm wondering if the dealer can have reinstalled something on the wrong side (blade, strap, other).

The other thing is that it also leave grass clipping chunck everywhere on my grass and the clipping is not that small. I read other post where people tell that the grass clipping is so small that it's kind of magically disappearing. This is really not my case.

Can somebody with the mulching kit installed tell if it's normal to have to always clean the mower (and myself) after each use?

Thank you.

Just a few comments and observations about your mulching dillemma. Firstly, based upon looking at the pictures you provided, the first one(showing the tiny clippings that fly in the air and cover the deck), this may be evidence of a combination of using "mulching blades"...like Gator G6's that "pulverize the grass clippings PLUS the (A)mulch baffles installed underneath the deck not being the exact same "height" as the deck itself(i.e 4" deep deck and 3" baffles) and (B) the cutting height you have the deck set at versus the actual height of the uncut grass. Still on the same subject, let me elaborate on the "rules for mulching" as I understand them. First of all, when mulching it is important to "mow often" and not allow your grass to get too tall. Secondly, is that effective mulching is achieved at a MUCH slower speed than regular side-discharge mowing(to allow the mulching to effectively force the grass clippings back into the remaining cut grass)......and to not cut the grass too "short" so that there is not enough remaining grass to "absorb" the clippings(I would recommend nothing shorter than setting the deck at 2-2.5 inches). Thirdly, is the unspoken "1/3 rule" and that is "NEVER" cut more than 1/3 of the total height of the uncut grass(i.e. if the grass is 3" high and you set the deck at 2" you are cutting 1" of 3"tall grass.....or 1/3!!!). I would suggest that you try my suggestions and post back your results.
The remaining pictures you show(buildup grass clippings underneath the deck) can be several things including the amount of grass height you are cutting mentioned above(if you are cutting 2-3" off the grass and mulching it.....that's gonna be a LOT of clippings to be dealt with by the mulching kit and the fact you are not really "discharging" any of those clippings.....AND....a lot of your pictures indicate excessive "moisture" in the clumps of built-up clippings. It is a "cardinal sin", when mulching to have had any significant rain/dew/fog in the previous 48-72 hours and you really need to adjust your mowing schedule(and time of day...late afternoon will allow the sun to "dry out" the lawn from any overnight dew, etc.) to make absolutely certain the grass is nowhere close to "being wet"(this by far the MOST difficult thing to obtain and I think you will find that even following my recommendations in the first paragraph that inherently you will need to scrape the underside of your deck more often than if you did not have a mulch kit and were side-discharge mowing(that's just going to be one drawback of using a mulching kit).
All that being said.......I am by no means a "ZTR mulching expert" and there is some truth behind the argument that some ZTR's(especially the light duty residential models) just don't have what it takes(generally high torque engines and blade tip speeds in excess of 18,000fpm) to "effectively" be a really good mulching ZTR. In those cases(and this may apply to your particular mower) you are probably better off taking the mulch baffles off and simply running some Gator blades to cut the discharged clippings a little finer to decrease the windrows of clippings left(and after finishing mowing...if you raise the deck height 1/2 inch or so and mow back over the windrows several times this may sometimes disperse them where they are barely if at all noticable)...and if the clippings have any evidence of "moisture", let the sun "dry out" the windrows some before you try to mow back over them(wet clippings just simply won't disperse except in "clumps").
I hope you find this information beneficial and if you try some of my suggestions.....you MAY see an improvement to your dilemma......at least I hope so(I reserve the right to be wrong:0)

 

[Carscw]

Just a few comments and observations about your mulching dillemma. Firstly, based upon looking at the pictures you provided, the first one(showing the tiny clippings that fly in the air and cover the deck), this may be evidence of a combination of using "mulching blades"...like Gator G6's that "pulverize the grass clippings PLUS the (A)mulch baffles installed underneath the deck not being the exact same "height" as the deck itself(i.e 4" deep deck and 3" baffles) and (B) the cutting height you have the deck set at versus the actual height of the uncut grass. Still on the same subject, let me elaborate on the "rules for mulching" as I understand them. First of all, when mulching it is important to "mow often" and not allow your grass to get too tall. Secondly, is that effective mulching is achieved at a MUCH slower speed than regular side-discharge mowing(to allow the mulching to effectively force the grass clippings back into the remaining cut grass)......and to not cut the grass too "short" so that there is not enough remaining grass to "absorb" the clippings(I would recommend nothing shorter than setting the deck at 2-2.5 inches). Thirdly, is the unspoken "1/3 rule" and that is "NEVER" cut more than 1/3 of the total height of the uncut grass(i.e. if the grass is 3" high and you set the deck at 2" you are cutting 1" of 3"tall grass.....or 1/3!!!). I would suggest that you try my suggestions and post back your results.
The remaining pictures you show(buildup grass clippings underneath the deck) can be several things including the amount of grass height you are cutting mentioned above(if you are cutting 2-3" off the grass and mulching it.....that's gonna be a LOT of clippings to be dealt with by the mulching kit and the fact you are not really "discharging" any of those clippings.....AND....a lot of your pictures indicate excessive "moisture" in the clumps of built-up clippings. It is a "cardinal sin", when mulching to have had any significant rain/dew/fog in the previous 48-72 hours and you really need to adjust your mowing schedule(and time of day...late afternoon will allow the sun to "dry out" the lawn from any overnight dew, etc.) to make absolutely certain the grass is nowhere close to "being wet"(this by far the MOST difficult thing to obtain and I think you will find that even following my recommendations in the first paragraph that inherently you will need to scrape the underside of your deck more often than if you did not have a mulch kit and were side-discharge mowing(that's just going to be one drawback of using a mulching kit).
All that being said.......I am by no means a "ZTR mulching expert" and there is some truth behind the argument that some ZTR's(especially the light duty residential models) just don't have what it takes(generally high torque engines and blade tip speeds in excess of 18,000fpm) to "effectively" be a really good mulching ZTR. In those cases(and this may apply to your particular mower) you are probably better off taking the mulch baffles off and simply running some Gator blades to cut the discharged clippings a little finer to decrease the windrows of clippings left(and after finishing mowing...if you raise the deck height 1/2 inch or so and mow back over the windrows several times this may sometimes disperse them where they are barely if at all noticable)...and if the clippings have any evidence of "moisture", let the sun "dry out" the windrows some before you try to mow back over them(wet clippings just simply won't disperse except in "clumps").
I hope you find this information beneficial and if you try some of my suggestions.....you MAY see an improvement to your dilemma......at least I hope so(I reserve the right to be wrong:0)

The end.


This book was I good read full of some good info.

(( cowboy up and get over it ))

 

[djdicetn]

The end.


This book was I good read full of some good info.

(( cowboy up and get over it ))

Yeah...I see you've read some of my other "books" here on the forum. I always say..."why say it in 10 words, when you can say it in 100".....:0)
I'll have to admit, my suggestions were bits & pieces of "experienced knowledge" I have picked up from other forum users since I've been here with a little "guessing" thown in(based upon my analytical skills I obtained in 42 years of mainframe computer programming). I just ordered a mulch kit for my Gravely which the dealer should get in before the Labor day weekend....so in a few weeks I'll have "practiced what I preached" and see if I end up "eating crow":0)
BTW, that term..."eating crow" used to always mean having to admit you were wrong about something you said......BUT, here in Tennessee a few years back they passed a "Road Kill Law" where you can legally take home and eat any critter you accidentally kill with your vehicle without a hunting license or reporting it. So now, "eating crow" in Tennessee is just another term for a nice home-cooked meal:0)

 

[sebastien32]

Just a few comments and observations about your mulching dillemma. Firstly, based upon looking at the pictures you provided, the first one(showing the tiny clippings that fly in the air and cover the deck), this may be evidence of a combination of using "mulching blades"...like Gator G6's that "pulverize the grass clippings PLUS the (A)mulch baffles installed underneath the deck not being the exact same "height" as the deck itself(i.e 4" deep deck and 3" baffles) and (B) the cutting height you have the deck set at versus the actual height of the uncut grass. Still on the same subject, let me elaborate on the "rules for mulching" as I understand them. First of all, when mulching it is important to "mow often" and not allow your grass to get too tall. Secondly, is that effective mulching is achieved at a MUCH slower speed than regular side-discharge mowing(to allow the mulching to effectively force the grass clippings back into the remaining cut grass)......and to not cut the grass too "short" so that there is not enough remaining grass to "absorb" the clippings(I would recommend nothing shorter than setting the deck at 2-2.5 inches). Thirdly, is the unspoken "1/3 rule" and that is "NEVER" cut more than 1/3 of the total height of the uncut grass(i.e. if the grass is 3" high and you set the deck at 2" you are cutting 1" of 3"tall grass.....or 1/3!!!). I would suggest that you try my suggestions and post back your results.
The remaining pictures you show(buildup grass clippings underneath the deck) can be several things including the amount of grass height you are cutting mentioned above(if you are cutting 2-3" off the grass and mulching it.....that's gonna be a LOT of clippings to be dealt with by the mulching kit and the fact you are not really "discharging" any of those clippings.....AND....a lot of your pictures indicate excessive "moisture" in the clumps of built-up clippings. It is a "cardinal sin", when mulching to have had any significant rain/dew/fog in the previous 48-72 hours and you really need to adjust your mowing schedule(and time of day...late afternoon will allow the sun to "dry out" the lawn from any overnight dew, etc.) to make absolutely certain the grass is nowhere close to "being wet"(this by far the MOST difficult thing to obtain and I think you will find that even following my recommendations in the first paragraph that inherently you will need to scrape the underside of your deck more often than if you did not have a mulch kit and were side-discharge mowing(that's just going to be one drawback of using a mulching kit).
All that being said.......I am by no means a "ZTR mulching expert" and there is some truth behind the argument that some ZTR's(especially the light duty residential models) just don't have what it takes(generally high torque engines and blade tip speeds in excess of 18,000fpm) to "effectively" be a really good mulching ZTR. In those cases(and this may apply to your particular mower) you are probably better off taking the mulch baffles off and simply running some Gator blades to cut the discharged clippings a little finer to decrease the windrows of clippings left(and after finishing mowing...if you raise the deck height 1/2 inch or so and mow back over the windrows several times this may sometimes disperse them where they are barely if at all noticable)...and if the clippings have any evidence of "moisture", let the sun "dry out" the windrows some before you try to mow back over them(wet clippings just simply won't disperse except in "clumps").
I hope you find this information beneficial and if you try some of my suggestions.....you MAY see an improvement to your dilemma......at least I hope so(I reserve the right to be wrong:0)

Thanks for the good reply.

Here are some comments:
1. My blades are the original one. They appear to be 3 in 1 blades and haven't been changed when the mulchkit was installed
2. I always mow at half speed (which is really slow)
3. My cutting height is always 3 1/2 inches and I rarely remove more than 1 inch at a time.
4. I rarely mow when it have rain in the last 24h but sometimes, it's impossible
5. My deck was not correctly leveled and pitched by my dealer. After correcting that, the cut it really great and the mulching performance is now good (not much of grass chunk laying on the ground anymore except when not fully dry)
6. Under deck build up is now less of a problem. it's still occurs more or less depending of the moisture of the grass and I just make sure that I check it before starting a new run.
7. Grass flying from the right front side of the deck is now my main problem
7.1 It occurs everytime (independently of the height of the grass, wet or dry, deck cleaned or not.)
7.2 Did some research about type of blades (high-lift, mulching, low-lift) but I can't find any blades matching my mower apart the exact same one that I have
7.3 My thinking is that there's to much airflow with my blades when the chute is blocked by the mulchkit and the air have to go somewhere...

 

[djdicetn]

Thanks for the good reply.

Here are some comments:
1. My blades are the original one. They appear to be 3 in 1 blades and haven't been changed when the mulchkit was installed
2. I always mow at half speed (which is really slow)
3. My cutting height is always 3 1/2 inches and I rarely remove more than 1 inch at a time.
4. I rarely mow when it have rain in the last 24h but sometimes, it's impossible
5. My deck was not correctly leveled and pitched by my dealer. After correcting that, the cut it really great and the mulching performance is now good (not much of grass chunk laying on the ground anymore except when not fully dry)
6. Under deck build up is now less of a problem. it's still occurs more or less depending of the moisture of the grass and I just make sure that I check it before starting a new run.
7. Grass flying from the right front side of the deck is now my main problem
7.1 It occurs everytime (independently of the height of the grass, wet or dry, deck cleaned or not.)
7.2 Did some research about type of blades (high-lift, mulching, low-lift) but I can't find any blades matching my mower apart the exact same one that I have
7.3 My thinking is that there's to much airflow with my blades when the chute is blocked by the mulchkit and the air have to go somewhere...

Thanks for the detailed update and glad to hear that at least there's an improvement!!! I digress that when I looked at some of your pictures it "appears" that the mulching baffles installed underneath the deck do not go all the way to the bottom edge of the deck. Is that indeed the case?? I'm thinking that on the right front side this may be contributing to the clippings escaping from underneath the deck. I'm not familiar with the term "3 in 1 blades" and always thought there were just hi-lift, regular or mulching blades, but I haven't really researched blades very thoroughly(as it sounds like you have) and admit I don't have much knowledge about the different kinds. With you mentioning that the deck leveling/pitch seemed to be contributing to your problem I will be certain to check mine when I install the new mulching kit I just ordered!!! Also, you may want to ask your dealer(or Ariens) about changing the pitch from the conventional front blade tip being 1/4" lower than the rear blade tip to the other way around(front blade tip 1/4" higher than the rear blade tip). This is referred to as "heeling the deck" and even my Gravely manual mentions it, says it can give a better cut, but states that it requires more power from the engine than the conventional pitch. That may be something else you can try to see if it improves any of your remaining problems. I've tinkered with the idea of setting my pitch lower at the back but just haven't gotten around to trying it to see what the results are(I think my Kawa engine has plenty of power to use the "heeeled deck" pitch).

 

[sebastien32]

Thanks for the detailed update and glad to hear that at least there's an improvement!!! I digress that when I looked at some of your pictures it "appears" that the mulching baffles installed underneath the deck do not go all the way to the bottom edge of the deck. Is that indeed the case?? I'm thinking that on the right front side this may be contributing to the clippings escaping from underneath the deck. I'm not familiar with the term "3 in 1 blades" and always thought there were just hi-lift, regular or mulching blades, but I haven't really researched blades very thoroughly(as it sounds like you have) and admit I don't have much knowledge about the different kinds. With you mentioning that the deck leveling/pitch seemed to be contributing to your problem I will be certain to check mine when I install the new mulching kit I just ordered!!! Also, you may want to ask your dealer(or Ariens) about changing the pitch from the conventional front blade tip being 1/4" lower than the rear blade tip to the other way around(front blade tip 1/4" higher than the rear blade tip). This is referred to as "heeling the deck" and even my Gravely manual mentions it, says it can give a better cut, but states that it requires more power from the engine than the conventional pitch. That may be something else you can try to see if it improves any of your remaining problems. I've tinkered with the idea of setting my pitch lower at the back but just haven't gotten around to trying it to see what the results are(I think my Kawa engine has plenty of power to use the "heeeled deck" pitch).

For the baffle, are you talking about the "3" shape baffle at the rear of the deck. If yes, then this is not part of the mulchkit. It's built-in the deck and can't be removed. There's however an extension to that baffle that make it taller so it have the same height as the deck. The extension needs to be removed when installing the mulchkit as per the instruction (confirmed by Ariens customer support). My dealer skipped this step when they installed the kit. Removing it improves the mulching. The mulchkit is just something that blocks the hole on the right side of the deck.

I'm not an expert on blades neither but 3 in 1 blades are blades that can do bagging, mulching and side discharge. They are probably not as good as the specific types of blades.

For "Heeling the deck", it's basically how mine was setup and I was getting poor mulching result that way. I think that getting it pitch in the front makes that the front of the deck cuts the grass and the back mulch the clipping but I may be wrong. My research on the Internet suggest that it may also be better for the health of the grass because it's just cut once by the sharp edge of the blade instead of being cut multiple time by every part of the blade.

Right now, i'm pretty happy but the flying grass must not be normal. The mower (and me :-( ) are always full of grass and I always needs to get the air compressor out to blow the mower and me.

Ariens want me to send it to the dealer because they say they have idea of what's the problem but they won't tell me. I'm not really confident in my dealer after they did 2 errors on some basic setup and that also means losing my mower for at least a week. I told Ariens that I will send it at the end of the mowing season which is end of october here in Quebec. That's why i'm still seeking for help over the Internet.

 

[djdicetn]

For the baffle, are you talking about the "3" shape baffle at the rear of the deck. If yes, then this is not part of the mulchkit. It's built-in the deck and can't be removed. There's however an extension to that baffle that make it taller so it have the same height as the deck. The extension needs to be removed when installing the mulchkit as per the instruction (confirmed by Ariens customer support). My dealer skipped this step when they installed the kit. Removing it improves the mulching. The mulchkit is just something that blocks the hole on the right side of the deck.

I'm not an expert on blades neither but 3 in 1 blades are blades that can do bagging, mulching and side discharge. They are probably not as good as the specific types of blades.

For "Heeling the deck", it's basically how mine was setup and I was getting poor mulching result that way. I think that getting it pitch in the front makes that the front of the deck cuts the grass and the back mulch the clipping but I may be wrong. My research on the Internet suggest that it may also be better for the health of the grass because it's just cut once by the sharp edge of the blade instead of being cut multiple time by every part of the blade.

Right now, i'm pretty happy but the flying grass must not be normal. The mower (and me :-( ) are always full of grass and I always needs to get the air compressor out to blow the mower and me.

Ariens want me to send it to the dealer because they say they have idea of what's the problem but they won't tell me. I'm not really confident in my dealer after they did 2 errors on some basic setup and that also means losing my mower for at least a week. I told Ariens that I will send it at the end of the mowing season which is end of october here in Quebec. That's why i'm still seeking for help over the Internet.

OK, I installed the Gravely mulch kit on my Pro Turn 152 last weekend and I must say that it looks "nothing like" what I am seeing in your pictures of the underside of your deck. Another thing I noticed after looking at your pictures again more closely is that your Ariens Zoom has a stamped deck where mine is a fabricated/welded deck which explains some of the difference. I'm beginning to be inclined to assess that indeed the deck design on your Ariens(and the design of the mulch kit...which after seeing/installing mine I have difficulty just figuring out exactly what underneath your deck is the "mulch kit parts") is not a very good design for mulching:0(
No offense intended.....but we must also consider that my Gravely has a MSRP of $7499 for the 2013 model and the mulch kit was almost $200 so we really have an apples-to-oranges comparison. I will try to post some picures(before and after installation of the mulch kit) of the underside of my deck so you can see what I'm talking about. I agree with you, though, that your dealer should give you a refund on the mulch kit, put OEM blades designed for your ZTR on it and let you try mowing without the mulch kit which I personally believe will work better. Then maybe you can try some Gator blades on it(still without the mulch kit and using the side discharge) and see if that performs better. I simply think the mulch kit for your ZTR is an inferior design and Ariens(and your dealer) need to acknowledge that:0(

 

[sebastien32]

OK, I installed the Gravely mulch kit on my Pro Turn 152 last weekend and I must say that it looks "nothing like" what I am seeing in your pictures of the underside of your deck. Another thing I noticed after looking at your pictures again more closely is that your Ariens Zoom has a stamped deck where mine is a fabricated/welded deck which explains some of the difference. I'm beginning to be inclined to assess that indeed the deck design on your Ariens(and the design of the mulch kit...which after seeing/installing mine I have difficulty just figuring out exactly what underneath your deck is the "mulch kit parts") is not a very good design for mulching:0(
No offense intended.....but we must also consider that my Gravely has a MSRP of $7499 for the 2013 model and the mulch kit was almost $200 so we really have an apples-to-oranges comparison. I will try to post some picures(before and after installation of the mulch kit) of the underside of my deck so you can see what I'm talking about. I agree with you, though, that your dealer should give you a refund on the mulch kit, put OEM blades designed for your ZTR on it and let you try mowing without the mulch kit which I personally believe will work better. Then maybe you can try some Gator blades on it(still without the mulch kit and using the side discharge) and see if that performs better. I simply think the mulch kit for your ZTR is an inferior design and Ariens(and your dealer) need to acknowledge that:0(

My mulchkit is nothing. It's just something that blocks the chute. I agree that the design doesn't seems to be really good but right now, it's doing an OK job of mulching. The flying grass and under deck clogging is probably a side effect of the poor design of the mulchkit but I can't says that for sure. The deck and mulchkit design have been change in 2012 on my model so it maybe be a new problem. This I mainly why I posted it here to try to see other user experiences with the same model but nobody with this model respond.

As for removing the mulchkit and installing gator blades, I would try it but I can't find the right size gator blade for my mower. It's 3 blades of 14.xx inches (i can't remember the exact size...).

 

[djdicetn]

My mulchkit is nothing. It's just something that blocks the chute. I agree that the design doesn't seems to be really good but right now, it's doing an OK job of mulching. The flying grass and under deck clogging is probably a side effect of the poor design of the mulchkit but I can't says that for sure. The deck and mulchkit design have been change in 2012 on my model so it maybe be a new problem. This I mainly why I posted it here to try to see other user experiences with the same model but nobody with this model respond.

As for removing the mulchkit and installing gator blades, I would try it but I can't find the right size gator blade for my mower. It's 3 blades of 14.xx inches (i can't remember the exact size...).

Yeah, the reason I would recommend removing the mulch kit altogether is that my next door neighbor has been mowing his yard for over 15 years with an Ariens Zoom with OEM blades and no mulch kit. And all that time, me with a lawn tractor, I envied how well manicured his lawn looked compared to mine. That was another reason that I bought my Gravely(I figured with their reputation and now that Ariens owned them I couldn't go wrong). Every once and a while my neighbor has to mow over some windrows a couple of times but his yard looks GREAT....and so should yours!!!!

P.S.
BTW, I'm still working on posting some pics so you can see what the Gravely kit looks like...but I've recently gone from a Windows PC to an iMac and I'm still "learning my new world of computing" so it'll take me a little longer than usual.

P.S.S.
Your dealer should be able to tell you which Gator blade you need or maybe even the Oregon blade site(I'll take a look later).

 

[djdicetn]

Yeah, the reason I would recommend removing the mulch kit altogether is that my next door neighbor has been mowing his yard for over 15 years with an Ariens Zoom with OEM blades and no mulch kit. And all that time, me with a lawn tractor, I envied how well manicured his lawn looked compared to mine. That was another reason that I bought my Gravely(I figured with their reputation and now that Ariens owned them I couldn't go wrong). Every once and a while my neighbor has to mow over some windrows a couple of times but his yard looks GREAT....and so should yours!!!!

P.S.
BTW, I'm still working on posting some pics so you can see what the Gravely kit looks like...but I've recently gone from a Windows PC to an iMac and I'm still "learning my new world of computing" so it'll take me a little longer than usual.

P.S.S.
Your dealer should be able to tell you which Gator blade you need or maybe even the Oregon blade site(I'll take a look later).

After looking at the Gator website, they don't seem to have a blade that matches your OEM blades(my research shows your ZTR having three 14 1/2" blades). Below is a ling to the Oregon OEM replacement chart and it doesn't list any blades for a Zoom 42:0(

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdfs/OREGON_BladesByOEM.pdf