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5hp tecumseh horizontal. on John deere snow blower 826 model
#1
Y
yjownzme
Y
yjownzme
hello everybody, I am new to the forum as of today. I am a full-time mechanic and I work on heavy equipment daily. So I understand the basics, I am having a frustrating issue with my snow blower. Last season it was very hard to start and eventually became a no start condition. Whenever i pull the cord it backfires out of the exhaust, even when using starting fluid it will not attempt to start, it just backfires from the exhaust. It is getting spark and obviously getting fuel viA starting fluid, I also replaced the carburetor last season with a brand new one. I have removed the flywheel to check the keyway. Everything looks great, I thought maybe I had a stuck valve so I pulled the jug cover off and both valves are closed and good. They will hold some WD 40 for a good half hour or more without leaking.head gasket also looks good.as of now I am completely stuck with this thing. I do not see anything wrong. It is a good old snow blower, very heavy duty all metal with tire chains, I hate to just trash it. Hopefully someone can help me out here thanks guys
#2
P
Polaraco
Heh You and I are in the same boat with these one lungers. . . . We can rebuild a Cummins blind folded, but can't get or little motor to run. Go figure.
Anyway Welcome
Yeah weird one. I was thinking burned valve too. Did you take a compression test on it? Timing? Yup I just found out these old Tec's need timing.
Here's the link to the manual these fine people gave to me. http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Tecu...NES-692509.pdf
I'm the one with the HS 40 No Spark http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/tecumseh-engine-forum/30477-hs40-no-spark-kicken-my-butt.html
P
Polaraco
hello everybody, I am new to the forum as of today. I am a full-time mechanic and I work on heavy equipment daily. So I understand the basics, I am having a frustrating issue with my snow blower. Last season it was very hard to start and eventually became a no start condition. Whenever i pull the cord it backfires out of the exhaust, even when using starting fluid it will not attempt to start, it just backfires from the exhaust. It is getting spark and obviously getting fuel viA starting fluid, I also replaced the carburetor last season with a brand new one. I have removed the flywheel to check the keyway. Everything looks great, I thought maybe I had a stuck valve so I pulled the jug cover off and both valves are closed and good. They will hold some WD 40 for a good half hour or more without leaking.head gasket also looks good.as of now I am completely stuck with this thing. I do not see anything wrong. It is a good old snow blower, very heavy duty all metal with tire chains, I hate to just trash it. Hopefully someone can help me out here thanks guys
Heh You and I are in the same boat with these one lungers. . . . We can rebuild a Cummins blind folded, but can't get or little motor to run. Go figure.
Anyway Welcome
Yeah weird one. I was thinking burned valve too. Did you take a compression test on it? Timing? Yup I just found out these old Tec's need timing.
Here's the link to the manual these fine people gave to me. http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Tecu...NES-692509.pdf
I'm the one with the HS 40 No Spark http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/tecumseh-engine-forum/30477-hs40-no-spark-kicken-my-butt.html
#3
Y
yjownzme
Y
yjownzme
Thanks brother. I'll do a lil more investigation. I didn't do a Compression test. It felt strong to me. But I'm just pretty lost.
#4
reynoldston
reynoldston
Through the many years as a mechanic I started working for Chevrolets dealer on trucks when they first started coming out with the V8s gas engines up to diesels so I worked on them all. You will find that the basic running of a engine hasn't changed much through the years as when they first come out in the early 1900's. Fuel, ignition, compression, and timing. Just the newer equipment now has added a computer to make things run better. Seeing you are a full time mechanic as I was you have to see changes yearly and have just adjust to it. I was talking to a truck driver and he was telling me that his diesel was computerized so they have changed since I worked on them in the early 80's. I am sure that if you start working on these small engines that it becomes a enjoyable hobby which I have found now in my later years. Yes you will learn as you go and make some mistakes along the way which I sure had done. My problem is I added motorcycles to the list and found I love to ride them more then work on them... Love retirement
#5
P
Polaraco
Hah! Listen to you. LOL I'm retired too
I'm not a full time Mech either. I was one of those people you people cussed out. An electrical engineer. I had a few strokes a couple of years back that took much of my scholastic and administrative faculties away. My mechanical skills started when I was a kid on a farm. I was fixing John Deere's at 13 years old. (I spread my share in those days too) My mechanical skills have been sharpened over the years because I am a car and truck nut. I spent loads of time at the dealer service dept learning too. Today I restore my own. Everything but steering boxes and interiors. They tell me I am above average mechanically. That;s why this little devil is so embarrassing.
P
Polaraco
Through the many years as a mechanic I started working for Chevrolets dealer on trucks when they first started coming out with the V8s gas engines up to diesels so I worked on them all. You will find that the basic running of a engine hasn't changed much through the years as when they first come out in the early 1900's. Fuel, ignition, compression, and timing. Just the newer equipment now has added a computer to make things run better. Seeing you are a full time mechanic as I was you have to see changes yearly and have just adjust to it. I was talking to a truck driver and he was telling me that his diesel was computerized so they have changed since I worked on them in the early 80's. I am sure that if you start working on these small engines that it becomes a enjoyable hobby which I have found now in my later years. Yes you will learn as you go and make some mistakes along the way which I sure had done. My problem is I added motorcycles to the list and found I love to ride them more then work on them... Love retirement
Hah! Listen to you. LOL I'm retired too
I'm not a full time Mech either. I was one of those people you people cussed out. An electrical engineer. I had a few strokes a couple of years back that took much of my scholastic and administrative faculties away. My mechanical skills started when I was a kid on a farm. I was fixing John Deere's at 13 years old. (I spread my share in those days too) My mechanical skills have been sharpened over the years because I am a car and truck nut. I spent loads of time at the dealer service dept learning too. Today I restore my own. Everything but steering boxes and interiors. They tell me I am above average mechanically. That;s why this little devil is so embarrassing.
#8
P
Polaraco
They're usually on the fan shroud
P
Polaraco
Not sure if these are the correct numbers. But they are on the rear case.
19-0-155
They're usually on the fan shroud
#11
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I've had two of those engines with the same problem in the past month. This is what I did to them. First I removed the carb and gave it a good cleaning. Rebuilt the carb with a new needle and seat, Tecumseh #631021B. Installed the carb and on one unit this solved the problem. On the other unit, it would run, but had a noticeable miss. On that unit I found that the coil air gap was too large, over .015, and I reset the gap at .008 to advance the spark slightly. Here's my carb rebuilding procedure, as I have not had success just spraying with carb cleaner and compressed air.
Needle and seat replacement
Remove the carb, and then remove the float bowl. Check the float bowl jet (which is the bowl screw) and make sure the jets both horizontal and vertical are clean and open. Tip the carb upside down and remove the float pin and float with needle attached. Look in the float needle passage and you should see the red float seat at the bottom of the passage. This is where a #5 crotchet hook would come in handy as you need to remove this seat. If you have no hook, but compressed air, you can blow through the fuel inlet and try to pop the seat out. Put your thumb over the passage to prevent the seat from flying who knows where. No air or hook try bending a stiff paper clip to dig the seat out.
I would either give the carb a good 24 hour soaking or have it ultrasonically cleaned at this time.
With the seat out clean the passage way with carb cleaner. Now you must find a drill bit slightly smaller than the passage way, to be used to press in the new seat. Apply a very, very small amount of a very light lube to the new seat. 3-1 oil or lighter, to help seat it better. Carefully insert the new seat in the passage way with the rings on the seat down toward the carb body. Slowly and carefully force the seat down with the back end of the drill bit. Once it is seated, check to see that it did not flip and the rings are up. *Next check to make sure that the float does not have any liquid in it. *If it does, replace. *If everything looks correct, attach the new needle to the float and install with the float pin centered. It everything is correct, the float should seat level to the carb body, when looking at it upside down. If everything looks good reattach the float bowl, making sure that both the bowl gasket and the nut gasket seal properly. Reinstall on the engine and test unit. Remember to have patience and take your time. Good luck, but I don't think you'll need it.
PS: *On the side of some Tecumseh carbs you will find a plastic cover. *Under this cover will be an idle jet. *Remove it and check to see that the jet is open both horizontally and vertically. *You should be able to push the old float needle wire through the vertical opening.
Needle and seat replacement
Remove the carb, and then remove the float bowl. Check the float bowl jet (which is the bowl screw) and make sure the jets both horizontal and vertical are clean and open. Tip the carb upside down and remove the float pin and float with needle attached. Look in the float needle passage and you should see the red float seat at the bottom of the passage. This is where a #5 crotchet hook would come in handy as you need to remove this seat. If you have no hook, but compressed air, you can blow through the fuel inlet and try to pop the seat out. Put your thumb over the passage to prevent the seat from flying who knows where. No air or hook try bending a stiff paper clip to dig the seat out.
I would either give the carb a good 24 hour soaking or have it ultrasonically cleaned at this time.
With the seat out clean the passage way with carb cleaner. Now you must find a drill bit slightly smaller than the passage way, to be used to press in the new seat. Apply a very, very small amount of a very light lube to the new seat. 3-1 oil or lighter, to help seat it better. Carefully insert the new seat in the passage way with the rings on the seat down toward the carb body. Slowly and carefully force the seat down with the back end of the drill bit. Once it is seated, check to see that it did not flip and the rings are up. *Next check to make sure that the float does not have any liquid in it. *If it does, replace. *If everything looks correct, attach the new needle to the float and install with the float pin centered. It everything is correct, the float should seat level to the carb body, when looking at it upside down. If everything looks good reattach the float bowl, making sure that both the bowl gasket and the nut gasket seal properly. Reinstall on the engine and test unit. Remember to have patience and take your time. Good luck, but I don't think you'll need it.
PS: *On the side of some Tecumseh carbs you will find a plastic cover. *Under this cover will be an idle jet. *Remove it and check to see that the jet is open both horizontally and vertically. *You should be able to push the old float needle wire through the vertical opening.
#12
P
Polaraco
I have brass gauges and I measured the air gap on my HS40. It's more than .010. Thanks for the spec of 008. But how the heck do you change it? The adjustments are bottomed out on the assembly just to get the timing. What I don't understand is how the gap would change if it's never been disturbed.
P
Polaraco
I've had two of those engines with the same problem in the past month. This is what I did to them. First I removed the carb and gave it a good cleaning. Rebuilt the carb with a new needle and seat, Tecumseh #631021B. Installed the carb and on one unit this solved the problem. On the other unit, it would run, but had a noticeable miss. On that unit I found that the coil air gap was too large, over .015, and I reset the gap at .008 to advance the spark slightly. Here's my carb rebuilding procedure, as I have not had success just spraying with carb cleaner and compressed air.
Needle and seat replacement
Remove the carb, and then remove the float bowl. Check the float bowl jet (which is the bowl screw) and make sure the jets both horizontal and vertical are clean and open. Tip the carb upside down and remove the float pin and float with needle attached. Look in the float needle passage and you should see the red float seat at the bottom of the passage. This is where a #5 crotchet hook would come in handy as you need to remove this seat. If you have no hook, but compressed air, you can blow through the fuel inlet and try to pop the seat out. Put your thumb over the passage to prevent the seat from flying who knows where. No air or hook try bending a stiff paper clip to dig the seat out.
I would either give the carb a good 24 hour soaking or have it ultrasonically cleaned at this time.
With the seat out clean the passage way with carb cleaner. Now you must find a drill bit slightly smaller than the passage way, to be used to press in the new seat. Apply a very, very small amount of a very light lube to the new seat. 3-1 oil or lighter, to help seat it better. Carefully insert the new seat in the passage way with the rings on the seat down toward the carb body. Slowly and carefully force the seat down with the back end of the drill bit. Once it is seated, check to see that it did not flip and the rings are up. *Next check to make sure that the float does not have any liquid in it. *If it does, replace. *If everything looks correct, attach the new needle to the float and install with the float pin centered. It everything is correct, the float should seat level to the carb body, when looking at it upside down. If everything looks good reattach the float bowl, making sure that both the bowl gasket and the nut gasket seal properly. Reinstall on the engine and test unit. Remember to have patience and take your time. Good luck, but I don't think you'll need it.
PS: *On the side of some Tecumseh carbs you will find a plastic cover. *Under this cover will be an idle jet. *Remove it and check to see that the jet is open both horizontally and vertically. *You should be able to push the old float needle wire through the vertical opening.
I have brass gauges and I measured the air gap on my HS40. It's more than .010. Thanks for the spec of 008. But how the heck do you change it? The adjustments are bottomed out on the assembly just to get the timing. What I don't understand is how the gap would change if it's never been disturbed.
#13
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Polaraco, you are confusing the problem here. This poster has an HM80 and you have a HS40. Two totally different engines and magneto systems. If I looked up the correct engine for each of you, your coil is located under the flywheel and his is above the flywheel. The specs I gave this poster will not work for you.
#14
P
Polaraco
Where do I press the "I am an idiot" button? :laughing:
My apologies. I saw that and it rang a bell
P
Polaraco
Polaraco, you are confusing the problem here. This poster has an HM80 and you have a HS40. Two totally different engines and magneto systems. If I looked up the correct engine for each of you, your coil is located under the flywheel and his is above the flywheel. The specs I gave this poster will not work for you.
Where do I press the "I am an idiot" button? :laughing:
My apologies. I saw that and it rang a bell
#15
Y
yjownzme
Y
yjownzme
I understand the card cleaning procedure. However as I said in my post.. The carB is brand new as of last season and the engine has never started on it. The engine will not start with starting fluid either. I'm not saying you are right or wrong. But if it does not start with starting fluid, I do not believe it is a fuel issue]
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Come on, you are a mechanic.
It got fuel ( starter fluid )
It got spark.
It got compression
Only 1 thing left- Timing
Should be a zinc alloy shear key in the flywheel,
Chances are it has broken so the timing is out of sync.
Please note they are shear keys and designed to break if the engine suddenly gets overloaded .
Do not even thing of replaceing them with a length of steel .
A lot are funny shapes including havine steps in them so you willneed to pull the fly wheel to inspect them properly.
Be carefull if you use a jaw puller as the flywheels do bend a lot easier than you would think
It got fuel ( starter fluid )
It got spark.
It got compression
Only 1 thing left- Timing
Should be a zinc alloy shear key in the flywheel,
Chances are it has broken so the timing is out of sync.
Please note they are shear keys and designed to break if the engine suddenly gets overloaded .
Do not even thing of replaceing them with a length of steel .
A lot are funny shapes including havine steps in them so you willneed to pull the fly wheel to inspect them properly.
Be carefull if you use a jaw puller as the flywheels do bend a lot easier than you would think
#17
Y
yjownzme
Y
yjownzme
In my original description I said I have already removed the flywheel and checked the keyway. It looks good. You are correct.. I am a mechanic. It does have spark, fuel, and compression. possibly the timing is not adjusted correctly like the other gentleman said a few posts back. I'm stuck
#18
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
This manual will show you how to set the timing.
http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Tec...P-4-CYCLE-L-HEAD-FLAT-HEAD-ENGINES-692509.pdf
http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Tec...P-4-CYCLE-L-HEAD-FLAT-HEAD-ENGINES-692509.pdf
#20
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry, I missed the flywheel bit.
So long as there is only way it will fit that only leaves valve timing.
However if you have not pulled the cam and the valves are out of sync that means there is big problems inside this motor
B
bertsmobile1
In my original description I said I have already removed the flywheel and checked the keyway. It looks good. You are correct.. I am a mechanic. It does have spark, fuel, and compression. possibly the timing is not adjusted correctly like the other gentleman said a few posts back. I'm stuck
Sorry, I missed the flywheel bit.
So long as there is only way it will fit that only leaves valve timing.
However if you have not pulled the cam and the valves are out of sync that means there is big problems inside this motor
#21
Y
yjownzme
Y
yjownzme
Ok guys.. finally got around to a actual compression test and not the Ole finger on the plug hole test. And the results are NOT GOOD. I HAVE ZERO compression on this engine.sorry to waste your time up to this point. But it felt like decent compression on my finger. At TDC both valves are closed and hold some wd40 for a good while. I guess that brings me to bad rings. I think I'm going to try and rebuild this motor myself. I don't see it being very difficult. Going off of the numbers I posted. What motor do I have.. hs50? Hs40? I will buy some rings and get it all fixed up
#22
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
In post number 9 you said you had an HM80-155317M, which are the numbers you will need in obtaining parts. I suggest that you tear down the engine first before you order any parts. Mic the cylinder and crankshaft to see if you are going to need an oversized piston and rings and/or undersized crankshaft. Cost of the parts may be more than you wish to spend. Many small engine shops have those engines lying around that you might be able to pick up for $50-75. That old SnowKing engine was a mule and there are still a lot of them out there today.