1st time ZT shopper some guidance on models to consider.

[Darryl G]

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

 

[lamrith]

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

I appreciate that word of caution. Yes it is a brand new model fro this year. I am not seeing ICD listed either, and did not know previous decks had clumping issues. I actually just asked on their website about the deck and will let you all know what I find. With my lawn that tends to be heavy/wet grass the last thing I nee is a deck that is prone to clumping.

EDIT: based on reading what the ICD is and how it is built:
https://www.ferrismowers.com/na/en_us/why-ferris/icd-cutting-system.html
vs the pictures on the 400s page (namely not sloped nose, no deck step, etc) I am going to say it is not ICD.
https://www.ferrismowers.com/na/en_...-mowers/400s-series-zero-turn-lawn-mower.html

:-/ Dashing my hopes and dreams Darryl!

 

[lamrith]

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

So I posted the deck question on the Ferris page for the 400S, they answered within 2hrs:

Good afternoon,

No the Ferris 400S does not have the ICD deck. The ICD deck starts with the IS700.

Thank you,

That means regardless I am not going to get an ICD deck, even the 600 is maxing my honest the budget and the 700 is not even in the universe.

That said.. is the std deck that bad, better/worse than any other low end commercial deck..?

 

[lamrith]

Well,
The sales guy has been helpful on the phone with my calls so I stopped by the Ferris dealer today after work. They got an 400S with the Kawa engine on Friday and built it up yesterday so I could check it out today.

This shop is in an urban area, no grass to mow, but we took it on the backstreet behind the shop that is all beat up. All I can say is WOW, that thing is a cadillac. I know ride may not be a #1 factor for many and I am not sure it is #1 for me but it is top 3, and I have no doubt it will handle my yard just fine. Controls were smooth and precise and I was able to do 2point uturns smoothly from 1st try. The unit overall looks very solidly built.

• Extremely comfortable (Shocks in tail, big springs under hinged seatpan and 4"+ thick seat bottom)
• Armrest on seats
• controls close enough for one hand operation
• Dual Hydo resevoirs up high behind seat
• oil filter and oil drain hose on right side with easy access. The pre-installed hose is a nice touch to drain straight into a container with no mess.
• nice wide rear tires with deep aggressive tread, not very tall though. (deeper tread than Kubota and scag units I have seen, Kubota is much taller tire though 22")
• Heavy Fab deck (Not ICD)

Pretty sold on the unit, about the only thing I felt was sub-par was the parking brake. A flimsy lever next to the throttle with a good bit of tension on it. The deck height selector is a bit rudementary (pegboard style with 1/4" increments), but it should be ruggedly simple and less dials/knobs to fail.

Seems there might be a running upgrade/fix going on with them as the dealer said they were given a idler pulley and told to replace it before delivering the unit to a customer.

The big question now is what baggers there are for it. The website indicated a non powered one, but the dealer said only the big Turbo-Pro powered one fit it. mere $2500+tax option.

 

[tbzep]

Sounds like a great machine. The pegboard deck height selector is pretty much standard for most of the more robust residential ZT machines and many commercials.

 

[BoylermanCT]

I would buy a motorized pull behind vacuum on a trailer long before I would spend $2500 on a bagger unit for the mower! The pull behind would be half the price and have 2X the capacity!

There is a $400 rebate on the 600 and up models. Not sure if that gets you closer to your budget. Rebate ends May 26.

 

[lamrith]

So wanted to do a bit of a summary on what I found at my local dealers. This is pretty much the order I have them in from best to worst for my needs. All of them have pretty much the same financing options.

1. Ferris 400S (5901705), 21HP Kawa, 48" DECK $4499.99 sale pricing

• chassis suspension in rear, suspended pivot front axle.
• hinged seat plate with with heavy spring, super thick padded seat bottom.
• pegboard adjuster for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• 20" drive tires
• Armrests
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• Fuel level guage
• ZT2800 Transmission
• 4yr/500hr warranty
• CON: ~$2524 powered bagger.
• CON: farthest dealer to reach.
• CON: parking brake lever seems flimsy, same style/material as throttle lever but lot of tension on it.

2. Kubota Z121SKH-48, 21HP Kubota, 48" DECK $4979.00 sale pricing

• suspension seat
• Dial adjuster for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• tall and wide drive tires 22x10
• ROPS
• Armrests
• Lights
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• Fuel sight window
• ZT3100 Transmission
• ~$800 non powered bagger optional.
• 4yr/300hr warranty
• easiest to reach dealer, between work and home.
• CON: price +$400
• CON: No powered bagger option at all.

3. SCAG Liberty Z SZL48-22KT, 48 22hp Kohler, 48" DECK $4499.99 sale pricing

• Std lawnmower seat on hinged spring plate.
• Pegboard for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• 20" drive tires
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• ZT2800 Transmission
• 5yr/750hr warranty
• closest dealer, 3 miles from home.
• CON: No suspension seat or arm rests

Sounds like a great machine. The pegboard deck height selector is pretty much standard for most of the more robust residential ZT machines and many commercials.

Very true, so simple it pretty much cannot break. The SCAG I looked at had the same thing. That is the one thing that Kubota has over some other brands is that they have really good Ergonomics, but you pay for it as the above shows. Given my property the suspension really is a huge selling point, probably more than it should be, but with the amount of time and frequency we have to move comfort is important.

I would buy a motorized pull behind vacuum on a trailer long before I would spend $2500 on a bagger unit for the mower! The pull behind would be half the price and have 2X the capacity!

There is a $400 rebate on the 600 and up models. Not sure if that gets you closer to your budget. Rebate ends May 26.

I agree, the price I was quoted on the bagger was just crazy. To the point I have gotten the wife convinced to give it a go without bagging to see how it goes. I called around and found a deal 100mi away that will sell the bagger for $1800. I am wondering if maybe my local quoted the Turbo-Pro Max or even the Fast-Vac, I will have to have him check as everyplace I have looked online the bagger for the 400S is $1800.

I heard about the rebate. If the 600 got me the ICD deck or independent front suspension for the extra $ then I would think about it with the rebate in play. But for some reason Ferris chopped both of those off the 600 for 2018, they honestly downgraded the unit quite a bit this year which baffles me. For the extra $ you get ROPS, bigger tires, better Hydro's. All have value, but it does not seem like there was a price drop this year and they took away 2 huge high value features. imho they should have dropped the hydro's down a notch(2800 still a good unit from my reasearch), nuked the ROPS and kept the ICD and independent front suspen. As usual I am a year late I will have to see if they have any 2017 IS 600Z's around still.

 

[Darryl G]

You need to buy a more expensive mower so the price of the bagger won't seem to be as much, lol.

There's always the option of a grass catcher for bagging when you need to. Accelerator Industries makes excellent aluminum units. http://www.acceleratorindustries.com/#!/home

 

[lamrith]

You need to buy a more expensive mower so the price of the bagger won't seem to be as much, lol.

There's always the option of a grass catcher for bagging when you need to. Accelerator Industries makes excellent aluminum units. http://www.acceleratorindustries.com/#!/home

ouch, I like the logic, but ouch..

The SCAG dealer had one of those on the Liberty I rode around. ~$400-500 if I recall. Definitely something to consider, I am thinking we might bag only the front and immediate back yard 20yrds from house. Then spread the back half of property since we are not back there as often to track it into the house. The concern is that even that small area it grows so fast we would fill that little accelerator every 2-3 passes. Still worth considering though.

I was able to call around and the dealer 100miles out is $1800 for the bagger setup. So I plan to maybe call my lcoal guy today and inquire, I am starting to wonder if maybe he quoted the Fast-Vac unit instead of the Turbo-pro. Could easily explain the drastic swing in price since everywhere else I look the Turbo units are under $2k. I also want to see if they have any '17 IS600Z's left over since they have a rebate on them and the old ones were better than the new ones.

 

[Darryl G]

What I sometimes do is mow the whole lawn discharging, then cut the heavy areas again bagging but with the deck 1/4 to 1/2 inch higher. Just letting the clippings set out and dry for a little while makes a big difference and raising up a little gets most of the grass but cuts down on volume significantly.

I still like the Liberty for you but if the ride quality won't work for you it's understandable. Do you have a Toro dealer? They have a machine with a suspended operator platform.