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1st time Zero Turn shopper some guidance on models to consider.

Well title says it all. I do not have a brand narrowed down yet, been trying to skim mfg sites and forums for a few days and head is starting to spin, seems like the options have increased 10fold since 2 years ago..

• Western WA, lot of rain, grass tends to grow fast and thick and be damp when mowing.
• Last mower is/was Kubota T1560 (rear suspension), lasted 20yrs, 14hp, 44" stamped deck, deck powered bagger that clogs often due to above conditions.
• 1acre flat but rough lawn (thinking suspen seat or tractor suspen is required to not get beat up)
• budget $3-4K+bagger
• Have the following brands at local dealers per the dealers website (not verified they carry ZT's for the brand):
  *Kubota and Exmark 10mi away (only had one exmark model and new salesman knew little about either brand. (I knew more from 4 days of research online)
  *Ariens, Ferris, Husqvarna, toro 15miles away (brands per store website)
  *Scag, Husqvarna (small dealer 3 miles away that used to have Cub a year ago.)
  *scag, JD, Hustler (10mi away small dealer)

My Wants:

• Fabricated deck. Last mower was stamped but was super heavy construction.
• Serviceable transmissions
• suspended unit or seat.
• deck cleanout? or are they gimmick, better to get a unit with a lift to spray under it?
• ROPS - seems many of the cheap units do not have them, my ground is really flat, but safety 1st..?
• Foot pedal deck lift.
• 42-50" deck
• I would like an engine that is serviceable and/or has a oil filter.

So I am hoping maybe for some guidance from those that have units from these mfg. I will say My heart leans to Kubota just because of how awesome the T1560 has been for durability and what I saw at the dealer today. They just seem to really nail the fit, finish and feel of a quality machine. But the guy at the dealer today just seemed clueless, heck he did not even ask me any questions, it was me asking to see the exmarks (took 15min to find as they had only kubota on display for Kubota Field day tomorrow and then they had one one model of exmark), then me making assumptions and asking him if I was correct about the kubota's he had out.

I know Home depot and Lowes folks will be clueless, so that is just a walk in and fondle the rigs a bit getting a gut feel for is they seem cheap or not.

Any specific models you folks recommend I look for to fit my price range and needs?

From what I've read over the last year or so, a Scag with the velocity deck would handle your conditions better, however, your budget may limit you. I wish I had a Scag dealer close enough to me to compare with when I bought my ZT last year. Do your best to rustle up the funds to get something better than the big box store offerings.

When I bought last spring, several manufacturers had 0% interest 48 month payment plans, including Gravely (Ariens) which I ended up going with. Scag currently offers 0% for 48 and Hustler has 0% for 42 months. That sort of financing will let you get something a little better than a straight purchase or CC purchase. Check online and with your local dealers to see what they have going.

So based on a little more reading I think I want:

• Fabricated deck. Last mower was stamped but was super heavy construction.
• Serviceable transmissions
• suspended unit or seat.
• deck cleanout? or are they gimmick, better to get a unit with a lift to spray under it?
• ROPS - seems many of the cheap units do not have them, my ground is really flat, but safety 1st..?
• Foot pedal deck lift.
• 42-50" deck
• I would like an engine that is serviceable and/or has a oil filter.

tbzep said:

From what I've read over the last year or so, a Scag with the velocity deck would handle your conditions better, however, your budget may limit you. I wish I had a Scag dealer close enough to me to compare with when I bought my ZT last year. Do your best to rustle up the funds to get something better than the big box store offerings.

When I bought last spring, several manufacturers had 0% interest 48 month payment plans, including Gravely (Ariens) which I ended up going with. Scag currently offers 0% for 48 and Hustler has 0% for 42 months. That sort of financing will let you get something a little better than a straight purchase or CC purchase. Check online and with your local dealers to see what they have going.

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Yeah am not a fan of box stores for this sort of purchase. It honestly is very disappointing to see brands like JD and Cub only at box stores now. When I bought my Kubota and even 2-3 yrs ago those brand still had a premier brand label to them and had models exclusive to power equipment retailers versus the box stores. Seems the mass market people fell for the lesser built box store models so the Mfg dropped the small stores. Pretty sad to see honestly.

Yeah most of the brands have good financing right now, some also have sales going on for memorial day. Not the best time of year since the season its now in full swing, but I need to get something before my existing one totally pukes and I am stuck with nothing. My gut is telling me she only has a few mows left and grass can grow a couple inches a week here this time of year.

You've got to narrow it down somewhat or you'll be stricken with the dreaded disease which afflicts people, engineers in particular--Analysis Paralysis.

Here are the brands I would look at, in no particular order:

Scag
Gravely
Kubota


Your list will probably be different. Mine is based upon what is available locally with no Big Box Store competition.

Go look at them. Mow with them, if possible. At least sit on them to see if your butt fits one seat better than another. No need to even ask selling price when you're looking; just generally what models are available for less than XXXX dollars.

Then ask your self, "If they all cost exactly the same, which one would I choose?" That way, you get what you want.

Then find out what your choice costs and strike the best deal you can with the dealer.

I would skip the big box stores. They will sell one to you, but they do not service them, so you will be going to the dealer for warranty work, so I would buy from them. Look at the warranty lengths on the mowers. Some are 2 year, some 3 and some go up to 5 or 6 years. I looked at Scag, Hustler and Husqvarna. Ruled out Husqvarna based on dealer recommendations, both the Scag and Hustler dealer used to sell them, and dropped them due to warranty issues. In the end, I really liked the Scags, but they were more than I was willing to pay for a mower. I went with a Hustler and have been happy with it. I wish it would mow faster (Raptor SD mows at 7mph), but I needed to spend more money to get more speed.

Thanks guys that is all good information. So I will adjust my list.

Basics for my location:

• Western WA, lot of rain, grass tends to grow fast and thick and be damp when mowing.
• Last mower is/was Kubota T1560 (rear suspension), lasted 20yrs, 14hp, 44" stamped deck, deck powered bagger that clogs often due to above conditions.
• 1acre flat but rough lawn (thinking suspen seat or tractor suspen is required to not get beat up)
• budget $3-4K+bagger
• Have the following brands at local dealers per the dealers website (not verified they carry ZT's for the brand):
  *Kubota and Exmark 10mi away (only had one exmark model and new salesman knew little about either brand. (I knew more from 4 days of research online)
  *Ariens, Ferris, Husqvarna, toro 15miles away (brands per store website)
  *Scag, Husqvarna (small dealer 3 miles away that used to have Cub a year ago.)
  *scag, JD, Hustler (10mi away small dealer)

My Wants:

• Fabricated deck. Last mower was stamped but was super heavy construction.
• Serviceable transmissions
• suspended unit or seat.
• deck cleanout? or are they gimmick, better to get a unit with a lift to spray under it?
• ROPS - seems many of the cheap units do not have them, my ground is really flat, but safety 1st..?
• Foot pedal deck lift.
• 42-50" deck
• I would like an engine that is serviceable and/or has a oil filter.

BoylermanCT said:

I would skip the big box stores. They will sell one to you, but they do not service them, so you will be going to the dealer for warranty work, so I would buy from them. Look at the warranty lengths on the mowers. Some are 2 year, some 3 and some go up to 5 or 6 years. I looked at Scag, Hustler and Husqvarna. Ruled out Husqvarna based on dealer recommendations, both the Scag and Hustler dealer used to sell them, and dropped them due to warranty issues. In the end, I really liked the Scags, but they were more than I was willing to pay for a mower. I went with a Hustler and have been happy with it. I wish it would mow faster (Raptor SD mows at 7mph), but I needed to spend more money to get more speed.

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The speed thing I think will be a huge improvement, both mow speed and probably blade speed. My existing rig is only 14hp with a 42 deck. Seems like all the current 42" decks are up over 20hp, even the tractors like a new model year replacement for my existing one. I think that is bringing the blade tip speed up which makes a powered bagger less important? I know my existing rig, even if I was not bagging could not mow at 7mph, be lucky to see 4mph probably.

Good info on Husqvarna as well thanks. Only contact I had with them was 15yrs ago when I was assembling them for Lowes as an outside vendor.

Agree on skipping the big box stores for a better overall long-term experience with your mower. I suggest that you see if you can check out a Scag Liberty at the dealer 3 miles away and upfit it with a suspension seat.

Bagging sucks! Gator G5 and G6 blades are high lift mulching blades that strike a good balance between mulching, cut quality and discharge velocity for a mulching mow while discharging.

I'd up your budget a bit. You seem to be wanting a $5 to $6k mower on a $3 to $4k budget.

Darryl G said:

Agree on skipping the big box stores for a better overall long-term experience with your mower. I suggest that you see if you can check out a Scag Liberty at the dealer 3 miles away and upfit it with a suspension seat.

Bagging sucks! Gator G5 and G6 blades are high lift mulching blades that strike a good balance between mulching, cut quality and discharge velocity for a mulching mow while discharging.

I'd up your budget a bit. You seem to be wanting a $5 to $6k mower on a $3 to $4k budget.

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I did run over there before they closed today and funny you should mention it, they have a Liberty Z "4821" which is a new one for 2018. $4599 base unit. Brochure says Hydro's (TX2800) have filters as does engine which is nice. They fired the unit up and I was able to putter around at idle in the parking lot. They do not have a grass area to test it in and super small parking lot so honestly it was a bit of a pointless test overall. Control felt good, nice and smooth transitions from fwd to rev, easy to modulate. They literally only had one unit for SCAG, said more on the way and they have been unable to keep them in stock. Interesting idea on teh seat. I had mentioned wanting a suspension seat and he said I had to jump up to lot more expensive model. Doing an upgrade would be a nice option.

Bagging is life right now at our place with how thick and wet it always is. Whenever we do not bag it is just a complete mess and clumpy all over the place. If we could do without bagging and not track grass into the house all the time we would skip the hassle for sure. Often we do not go into the back half of the property daily though, so I am wondering if we could just bag front and mulch the back.. more to think about...

You could be right on the budget, seems the suspended seat especially means higher price point for sure.

My dealer swapped out the seat on my Bob-Cat with the suspension seat from a more expensive unit for $250. Don't know if that's an option as far as fit in your case. If not there are after market suspension platforms (bases) available for many mower seats.

I'm in Connecticut nearby you, mow 30 lawns commercially and rarely bag. With the speed and agility of a Zero-Turn mower it's pretty quick to do a second pass on areas with heavy accumulations of clippings to chop them up and disperse them and get the same appearance as bagging. Granted, this time of year does have me bagging some of my high-end lawns.

Go to ebay and search "Scag Seat Warehouse". $139.95 shipped.
If you want to read reviews for it, look up "seat suspension kit" on Amazon.

Darryl G said:

My dealer swapped out the seat on my Bob-Cat with the suspension seat from a more expensive unit for $250. Don't know if that's an option as far as fit in your case. If not there are after market suspension platforms (bases) available for many mower seats.

I'm in Connecticut nearby you, mow 30 lawns commercially and rarely bag. With the speed and agility of a Zero-Turn mower it's pretty quick to do a second pass on areas with heavy accumulations of clippings to chop them up and disperse them and get the same appearance as bagging. Granted, this time of year does have me bagging some of my high-end lawns.

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I really appreciate that info. Here in WA in 6 days time I have spots in the yard that have grown 6", just crazy time of the year out here. But hitting some spots again could be a good solution for these bad times of the year. Also mowing 2x a week maybe will counter it this time of year. Honestly bagging is also a problem as much as it is needed this time of year as it can be so heavy it clogs the chute. Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess! I have a strong feeling though that the tip speed on these new mowers is so high that clogging and even dispersion of grass is not an issue like I am having with it now and like you I may not need to bag.

I will see about the seat options as well.

Oh, western WA, I read western MA somehow, lol.

You're right about the new mowers and not clogging and Scags handle tall damp/wet grass better than most. Here's a Liberty cutting tall wet grass. I do see some clumps but not bad at all. I think I would have raised the deck up a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvXnDZvw8MQ

One thing to consider is that the Scag rear bagger is around $1,600! Seems pretty high for a non-powered rear bagger. There's always an option of a side catcher but then you have crap blowing in your face.

Darryl G said:

Oh, western WA, I read western MA somehow, lol.

You're right about the new mowers and not clogging and Scags handle tall damp/wet grass better than most. Here's a Liberty cutting tall wet grass. I do see some clumps but not bad at all. I think I would have raised the deck up a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvXnDZvw8MQ

One thing to consider is that the Scag rear bagger is around $1,600! Seems pretty high for a non-powered rear bagger. There's always an option of a side catcher but then you have crap blowing in your face.

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Yeah that is crazy spendy for a non powered bagger. Thanks for the video, that scag handled it just fine. My entire lawn is that long right now after a week, with many sections even taller. I measured 10" a few min ago.

What are peoples thougths on ROP vs no ROP? I like the idea but I also have trees that hang down and I have to get under, so that could be a problem if I have ROP and it some standard on a few units.

As far as a ROPS goes, whether a machine gets one is based on the manufacturer and the size and weight of the machine. The next model up, the Freedom Z gets one but it doesn't fold down. So you're tooling along and forget about it, hit a low limb and it can actually cause the machine to flip. Basically they can be a hazard themselves.

Z mowers have a low center of gravity and are generally very stable and not prone to roll over. Generally the rear will slide out when traversing a side slope that is too steep. In general, where people get into trouble with them is mowing too close to the edge of a pond and having a back wheel drop into a hole or doing a backflip. A backflip can occur if you are trying to go up a steep hill and the tires are spinning and then suddenly get traction or if the machine slides backwards and then hits a solid object.

I don't have a ROPS on either of my Z mowers and don't feel I need them. But I don't opearate them on dicey slopes...i use a walk-behind mower for that. My compact utility tractor on the other hand has a high center of gravity, is very tippy side-to-side and I wouldnt feel comfortable operating if without one.

So to the OP, I think having a level lot it is unlikely that you would ever roll/flip your machine and having trees, a ROPS would probably be more of a hindrance and hazard. The dealer could maybe (probably?) add the one for the Freedom Z for you but that one doesn't fold down.

Darryl G said:

As far as a ROPS goes, whether a machine gets one is based on the manufacturer and the size and weight of the machine. The next model up, the Freedom Z gets one but it doesn't fold down. So you're tooling along and forget about it, hit a low limb and it can actually cause the machine to flip. Basically they can be a hazard themselves.

Z mowers have a low center of gravity and are generally very stable and not prone to roll over. Generally the rear will slide out when traversing a side slope that is too steep. In general, where people get into trouble with them is mowing too close to the edge of a pond and having a back wheel drop into a hole or doing a backflip. A backflip can occur if you are trying to go up a steep hill and the tires are spinning and then suddenly get traction or if the machine slides backwards and then hits a solid object.

I don't have a ROPS on either of my Z mowers and don't feel I need them. But I don't opearate them on dicey slopes...i use a walk-behind mower for that. My compact utility tractor on the other hand has a high center of gravity, is very tippy side-to-side and I wouldnt feel comfortable operating if without one.

So to the OP, I think having a level lot it is unlikely that you would ever roll/flip your machine and having trees, a ROPS would probably be more of a hindrance and hazard. The dealer could maybe (probably?) add the one for the Freedom Z for you but that one doesn't fold down.

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Thanks Darryl! Your information is very helpful as usual.

Found out I also have a Badboy dealer, 12miles away.

lamrith said:

Thanks Darryl! Your information is very helpful as usual.

Found out I also have a Badboy dealer, 12miles away.

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I liked the looks, features and price of Bad Boy, but when I checked, they have a very short 2 year warranty. As I recall, the Scag Liberty is 5 year. Bobcat is 6 on the XRZ model. 2 years is not really competitive. Last think I wanted was a repair bill while I was still paying it off!

Note on the Liberty rear bagger: Includes a front counter-weight system for machine balance. Something that's usually needed on Z mowers that isn't on lawn tractors with the engine up front.

I just noticed the Ferris F400S MSRP is supposed to be just over the top of my desired budget, hrmmm....

BoylermanCT said:

I liked the looks, features and price of Bad Boy, but when I checked, they have a very short 2 year warranty. As I recall, the Scag Liberty is 5 year. Bobcat is 6 on the XRZ model. 2 years is not really competitive. Last think I wanted was a repair bill while I was still paying it off!

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Great point, I had not noticed the warranty because most of them have been 4yrs or more.

I would avoid idling a Z around, that is hard on the hydros.

As to the deck washout, I'll never use the one on mine, last thing I want on hot spindles is cold water..

I've never used water at all on my Z in almost 4 years of owing it. And I never will, I use a 4" wide putty knife, simple & fast clean out.

Spent more time looking and research yesterday with all of your help and am really thinking the Ferris 400S might be a perfect fit.

Then I looked up the local dealer. It is a pair of local ACE Hardware franchise stores. No big deal, Ace is little more personal than the big box stores, then I looked them up on google maps. 99% sure they store all of their equipment outside uncovered year round. :-/ I am betting anything in for repair as well, as they only have so big a shop area and new units alone would fill it from what I see. Pretty disappointing honestly as it rains 9 months of year out here.

Good news I guess is that I just called the closest one and they just got their 1st one in, Kawasaki motor, $4499, not even uncrated yet, so it has not been out in rain. However if I bring it in for warranty/repair it will be sitting outside after I have spent $4500+tax and always stored it inside... Neither location has a great area to ride or try one out in, they are right in the middle of city/urban sprawl. But he said I could ride in their small lot and on the back street behind them and it looks a little rough so I can see how the suspension works which with my land is probably the most important thing.

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

Darryl G said:

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

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I appreciate that word of caution. Yes it is a brand new model fro this year. I am not seeing ICD listed either, and did not know previous decks had clumping issues. I actually just asked on their website about the deck and will let you all know what I find. With my lawn that tends to be heavy/wet grass the last thing I nee is a deck that is prone to clumping.

EDIT: based on reading what the ICD is and how it is built:
https://www.ferrismowers.com/na/en_us/why-ferris/icd-cutting-system.html
vs the pictures on the 400s page (namely not sloped nose, no deck step, etc) I am going to say it is not ICD.
https://www.ferrismowers.com/na/en_...-mowers/400s-series-zero-turn-lawn-mower.html

:-/ Dashing my hopes and dreams Darryl!

Darryl G said:

They don't seem to say what deck they put on the 400s but it doesn't appear to be their ICD deck and I don't see any reviews of the machine...appears to be a new model. I just hope it doesn't have a "clumpmaster" deck on it like their old non-ICD deck machines.

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So I posted the deck question on the Ferris page for the 400S, they answered within 2hrs:

Good afternoon,

No the Ferris 400S does not have the ICD deck. The ICD deck starts with the IS700.

Thank you,

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That means regardless I am not going to get an ICD deck, even the 600 is maxing my honest the budget and the 700 is not even in the universe.

That said.. is the std deck that bad, better/worse than any other low end commercial deck..?

Well,
The sales guy has been helpful on the phone with my calls so I stopped by the Ferris dealer today after work. They got an 400S with the Kawa engine on Friday and built it up yesterday so I could check it out today.

This shop is in an urban area, no grass to mow, but we took it on the backstreet behind the shop that is all beat up. All I can say is WOW, that thing is a cadillac. I know ride may not be a #1 factor for many and I am not sure it is #1 for me but it is top 3, and I have no doubt it will handle my yard just fine. Controls were smooth and precise and I was able to do 2point uturns smoothly from 1st try. The unit overall looks very solidly built.

• Extremely comfortable (Shocks in tail, big springs under hinged seatpan and 4"+ thick seat bottom)
• Armrest on seats
• controls close enough for one hand operation
• Dual Hydo resevoirs up high behind seat
• oil filter and oil drain hose on right side with easy access. The pre-installed hose is a nice touch to drain straight into a container with no mess.
• nice wide rear tires with deep aggressive tread, not very tall though. (deeper tread than Kubota and scag units I have seen, Kubota is much taller tire though 22")
• Heavy Fab deck (Not ICD)

Pretty sold on the unit, about the only thing I felt was sub-par was the parking brake. A flimsy lever next to the throttle with a good bit of tension on it. The deck height selector is a bit rudementary (pegboard style with 1/4" increments), but it should be ruggedly simple and less dials/knobs to fail.

Seems there might be a running upgrade/fix going on with them as the dealer said they were given a idler pulley and told to replace it before delivering the unit to a customer.

The big question now is what baggers there are for it. The website indicated a non powered one, but the dealer said only the big Turbo-Pro powered one fit it. mere $2500+tax option.

Sounds like a great machine. The pegboard deck height selector is pretty much standard for most of the more robust residential ZT machines and many commercials.

I would buy a motorized pull behind vacuum on a trailer long before I would spend $2500 on a bagger unit for the mower! The pull behind would be half the price and have 2X the capacity!

There is a $400 rebate on the 600 and up models. Not sure if that gets you closer to your budget. Rebate ends May 26.

So wanted to do a bit of a summary on what I found at my local dealers. This is pretty much the order I have them in from best to worst for my needs. All of them have pretty much the same financing options.

1. Ferris 400S (5901705), 21HP Kawa, 48" DECK $4499.99 sale pricing

• chassis suspension in rear, suspended pivot front axle.
• hinged seat plate with with heavy spring, super thick padded seat bottom.
• pegboard adjuster for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• 20" drive tires
• Armrests
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• Fuel level guage
• ZT2800 Transmission
• 4yr/500hr warranty
• CON: ~$2524 powered bagger.
• CON: farthest dealer to reach.
• CON: parking brake lever seems flimsy, same style/material as throttle lever but lot of tension on it.

2. Kubota Z121SKH-48, 21HP Kubota, 48" DECK $4979.00 sale pricing

• suspension seat
• Dial adjuster for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• tall and wide drive tires 22x10
• ROPS
• Armrests
• Lights
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• Fuel sight window
• ZT3100 Transmission
• ~$800 non powered bagger optional.
• 4yr/300hr warranty
• easiest to reach dealer, between work and home.
• CON: price +$400
• CON: No powered bagger option at all.

3. SCAG Liberty Z SZL48-22KT, 48 22hp Kohler, 48" DECK $4499.99 sale pricing

• Std lawnmower seat on hinged spring plate.
• Pegboard for cut height with 1.5-4.5" range 1/4" adjustment
• 20" drive tires
• Deep Fabricated deck
• Hr Meter
• ZT2800 Transmission
• 5yr/750hr warranty
• closest dealer, 3 miles from home.
• CON: No suspension seat or arm rests

tbzep said:

Sounds like a great machine. The pegboard deck height selector is pretty much standard for most of the more robust residential ZT machines and many commercials.

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Very true, so simple it pretty much cannot break. The SCAG I looked at had the same thing. That is the one thing that Kubota has over some other brands is that they have really good Ergonomics, but you pay for it as the above shows. Given my property the suspension really is a huge selling point, probably more than it should be, but with the amount of time and frequency we have to move comfort is important.

BoylermanCT said:

I would buy a motorized pull behind vacuum on a trailer long before I would spend $2500 on a bagger unit for the mower! The pull behind would be half the price and have 2X the capacity!

There is a $400 rebate on the 600 and up models. Not sure if that gets you closer to your budget. Rebate ends May 26.

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I agree, the price I was quoted on the bagger was just crazy. To the point I have gotten the wife convinced to give it a go without bagging to see how it goes. I called around and found a deal 100mi away that will sell the bagger for $1800. I am wondering if maybe my local quoted the Turbo-Pro Max or even the Fast-Vac, I will have to have him check as everyplace I have looked online the bagger for the 400S is $1800.

I heard about the rebate. If the 600 got me the ICD deck or independent front suspension for the extra $ then I would think about it with the rebate in play. But for some reason Ferris chopped both of those off the 600 for 2018, they honestly downgraded the unit quite a bit this year which baffles me. For the extra $ you get ROPS, bigger tires, better Hydro's. All have value, but it does not seem like there was a price drop this year and they took away 2 huge high value features. imho they should have dropped the hydro's down a notch(2800 still a good unit from my reasearch), nuked the ROPS and kept the ICD and independent front suspen. As usual I am a year late I will have to see if they have any 2017 IS 600Z's around still.

You need to buy a more expensive mower so the price of the bagger won't seem to be as much, lol.

There's always the option of a grass catcher for bagging when you need to. Accelerator Industries makes excellent aluminum units. http://www.acceleratorindustries.com/#!/home

Darryl G said:

You need to buy a more expensive mower so the price of the bagger won't seem to be as much, lol.

There's always the option of a grass catcher for bagging when you need to. Accelerator Industries makes excellent aluminum units. http://www.acceleratorindustries.com/#!/home

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ouch, I like the logic, but ouch..

The SCAG dealer had one of those on the Liberty I rode around. ~$400-500 if I recall. Definitely something to consider, I am thinking we might bag only the front and immediate back yard 20yrds from house. Then spread the back half of property since we are not back there as often to track it into the house. The concern is that even that small area it grows so fast we would fill that little accelerator every 2-3 passes. Still worth considering though.

I was able to call around and the dealer 100miles out is $1800 for the bagger setup. So I plan to maybe call my lcoal guy today and inquire, I am starting to wonder if maybe he quoted the Fast-Vac unit instead of the Turbo-pro. Could easily explain the drastic swing in price since everywhere else I look the Turbo units are under $2k. I also want to see if they have any '17 IS600Z's left over since they have a rebate on them and the old ones were better than the new ones.

What I sometimes do is mow the whole lawn discharging, then cut the heavy areas again bagging but with the deck 1/4 to 1/2 inch higher. Just letting the clippings set out and dry for a little while makes a big difference and raising up a little gets most of the grass but cuts down on volume significantly.

I still like the Liberty for you but if the ride quality won't work for you it's understandable. Do you have a Toro dealer? They have a machine with a suspended operator platform.

Darryl G said:

What I sometimes do is mow the whole lawn discharging, then cut the heavy areas again bagging but with the deck 1/4 to 1/2 inch higher. Just letting the clippings set out and dry for a little while makes a big difference and raising up a little gets most of the grass but cuts down on volume significantly.

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Good idea, I will def keep that in mind. Thanks!:thumbsup:

Darryl G said:

I still like the Liberty for you but if the ride quality won't work for you it's understandable. Do you have a Toro dealer? They have a machine with a suspended operator platform.

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I saw that platform and thought it looked interesting also, but I had written Toro off as it looked like they were a HomeDepot/Lowes carried product and I wanted an actual dealership for support. I think the Ferris dealer is also Toro now that I look at Toro website. The closer branch I went to did not have any Toro that I could see, but they are very small (400S was the only Ferris they had). The north store is the big location that is the warehouse.

I am curious what has you recommend the Toro over the other ones I have looked at? Are you talking the Timecutter 48 or the Timecutter HD 48?

I've read a lot of complaints about Ferris cut quality and scalping problems.

Was thinking maybe one of these but know little about them. Edit - can't get link to work. Seems like a cool concept. Engine is proprietary, manufactured in China by Loncin but I've only heard good things about them. So really just another option to further confuse your decision making process, lol. I was thinking of the "my ride" suspension and yeah maybe the 48hd.

I like the idea of suspension on the mower (Ferris) but I have read a few reviews the the suspension
allows the mower frame to move too much causing mower deck to “float” too much causing uneven cut.
Just something I read. My cut is perfect on the rigid frame Snapper 360Z 25/52” I just purchased. (has ZT2800s)


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Darryl G said:

I've read a lot of complaints about Ferris cut quality and scalping problems.

Was thinking maybe one of these but know little about them. Edit - can't get link to work. Seems like a cool concept. Engine is proprietary, manufactured in China by Loncin but I've only heard good things about them. So really just another option to further confuse your decision making process, lol. I was thinking of the "my ride" suspension and yeah maybe the 48hd.

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I heard about scalping on the ferris to. When I looked further into it the responses I saw mentioned it said it was mostly limited to the higher end models with true dual arm independent front suspensions (not single pivoting arm like the 400-700 series) and that with proper spring adjustment it was non an issue, who knows the real truth on that. but again I appreciate the heads up on the issue.

Yes the My Ride caught my eye initially as well, and Toro had a HD model with it down in the $4000 price point. No worries Darryl, it does not take much to confuse my decision making these days.

So would any of you consider only getting the B&S engine a deal breaker? Both being the same price, do you wait a month+ for a Kawa, or is the B&S fine give that I am a home owner and not mowing all day every day for a living?

Neighbor has a new Simplicity w 23 hp Briggs. It has less than 15 hours on the V-twin Briggs, but oil is weeping from about every place imaginable.

Me, well I like my Kawasaki for my home owner use. So my choice is biased.

Well the decision has been made and financing approved. I went with the Ferris 400S, got a great deal on one with the Briggs Commercial motor. Saved me a bunch so I will be $4400otd. Just have to wait for the dealer to get it in and deliver it, they are saying 2 weeks.

Now I just need to patch the Kubota up with some ducktape and JB weld to get it thru 2 more weeks of hard labor, then off to it's retirement home.

lamrith said:

Well the decision has been made and financing approved. I went with the Ferris 400S, got a great deal on one with the Briggs Commercial motor. Saved me a bunch so I will be $4400otd. Just have to wait for the dealer to get it in and deliver it, they are saying 2 weeks.

Now I just need to patch the Kubota up with some ducktape and JB weld to get it thru 2 more weeks of hard labor, then off to it's retirement home.

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Nice... Put that Kubota on Craigslist. You'd be surprised what folks will pay for a beat up, worn out machine as long as it still runs and half way cuts.

lamrith said:

Well the decision has been made and financing approved. I went with the Ferris 400S, got a great deal on one with the Briggs Commercial motor. Saved me a bunch so I will be $4400otd. Just have to wait for the dealer to get it in and deliver it, they are saying 2 weeks.

Now I just need to patch the Kubota up with some ducktape and JB weld to get it thru 2 more weeks of hard labor, then off to it's retirement home.

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What? Pretty sure I said to buy the Scag Liberty! Lol, congratulations! Feels good to have made a decision and be done with the search, doesn't it? Best wishes for you and your new machine. It would be nice to hear your impressions, trials and tribulations with it after you get some seat time on it. It does seem like that put a lot of commercial features on the 400s at a very competitive price point.

Darryl G said:

What? Pretty sure I said to buy the Scag Liberty! Lol, congratulations! Feels good to have made a decision and be done with the search, doesn't it? Best wishes for you and your new machine. It would be nice to hear your impressions, trials and tribulations with it after you get some seat time on it. It does seem like that put a lot of commercial features on the 400s at a very competitive price point.

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HAHA yeah always been told I do not listen so good..

It was totally a suspension+ feature for $ buy for sure. The improvement over the old Kubota should be pretty amazing, it will be a learning curve for sure being our 1st Zero turn.

lamrith said:

HAHA yeah always been told I do not listen so good..

It was totally a suspension+ feature for $ buy for sure. The improvement over the old Kubota should be pretty amazing, it will be a learning curve for sure being our 1st Zero turn.

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That's the fun part.. Enjoy.. :thumbsup:

lamrith said:

So would any of you consider only getting the B&S engine a deal breaker? Both being the same price, do you wait a month+ for a Kawa, or is the B&S fine give that I am a home owner and not mowing all day every day for a living?

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My Craftsman lawn tractor has 514 hours on a Briggs engine and still runs like new. My Raptor SD has a Kawasaki engine, and it is much much louder than the Briggs. Ear protection is optional on the Craftsman, mandatory on the Raptor SD.

Interested in hearing your comments after using the Ferris a few times. Is the suspension system meeting expectations?

I have a Kubota Z122 48" and purchased primarily based on spec's. (similar to what you appear to have done) and have been generally happy. Did have an issue with a defect on the steel tab welded to the frame that the deck mounts to. Looks like welds missed the target and it broke off. Luckily my dealer has been good to work with and got it repaired quickly as it is still under warranty. I bought used with 42 hrs on it for $2,500 so feel the deal was solid.

It cuts well, rides smooth and has plenty of power with the Brigs engine. It did throw the hydro belt one time which was a bitch to get back on as it jammed in between the housing and a bolt head.

Good luck with your new toy and let us know how you like it!

mcspeed said:

Interested in hearing your comments after using the Ferris a few times. Is the suspension system meeting expectations?

I have a Kubota Z122 48" and purchased primarily based on spec's. (similar to what you appear to have done) and have been generally happy. Did have an issue with a defect on the steel tab welded to the frame that the deck mounts to. Looks like welds missed the target and it broke off. Luckily my dealer has been good to work with and got it repaired quickly as it is still under warranty. I bought used with 42 hrs on it for $2,500 so feel the deal was solid.

It cuts well, rides smooth and has plenty of power with the Brigs engine. It did throw the hydro belt one time which was a bitch to get back on as it jammed in between the housing and a bolt head.

Good luck with your new toy and let us know how you like it!

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I will let you know after tonight. Mower was just delivered to me at work. Maiden mow it tonight. I have a very strong feeling the suspension will meet expectations. It really does ride pretty plush.

I thought about the Kubota as well after how well my existing tractor did for us, The ride of the Ferris just won me over, and it was less $ than the Kubota.

SO a quick initial 1st thoughts (well maybe not quick once I got rolling). Unit arrived assembled and ready to rock with .2hrs on the hour meter. All said and done the unit had 1.9hrs on it when I put it away after a fun evening mowing (what is wrong with us when mowing is fun!?):confused2:

#1 - FAST! This rig is going to cut our mow time at least in half. Due to both straight line speed as well as the ability to carve tight around trees and obstacles. I may not mow at full speed with it given just how rough our property is right now, but it can do it. Even at the speed I was mowing lastnight I was covering ground 2x faster than the old rig struggled to do and it was not even working hard.

#2 - Suspension works wonders. Property in middle is even rougher than I thought and the suspension and seat were working overtime. I do not want to think what it would have been like on a rigid chassis. I will likely work to try and flatten down some of the roughness as it is worse than I thought and needs to be addressed, but our entire property is uneven and I am glad to have gone with the ferris full suspension format as I think it will also save pounding on the unit itself as well as the operator.

#3 - Subtle / refined movements are key. Definitely a learning curve on handling, though after a few min I was pretty solid on it. I tried cutting along edge of porch and house foundation 1st. Probably a bad idea as I was twitching all over, but managed not to bash the deck into anything. Thanks to someone here that made a comment about setting speed with one side and then turning with the other. I am lucky to have large hands, large enough that my hands can be touching when operating the levers. In fact I cross my thumbs to the other lever allowing very subtle adjustments in each lever, I am moving both arms together rather than individually and just shifting hands for direction changes. I also found it helps for doing 3 pt turns at the end of each run as I can set the lever offset for a turn, then pull both straight back together in that offset to reverse turn and then transition right back to forward turn starting the next row. Helped for making sure I didn't pivot on a wheel and leave a divot.

#4 - Learning curve on how to operate on uneven ground. I think on slopes the suspen lets the unit lean a bit and the downhill egde scalps at the base of the slope if I ride laterally along the slope. I had heard about Ferris units and scalping and see what they referred to, it could be this would happen with any ztr though as this is my 1st experience ever with one, but I will be looking at altering our mow approach in a few spots to counter the issue.

#5 - May still need a bagger. The unit chewed thru the grass and spread it much better than the old one, however the growth is so large in a week that it still leaves grass clippings piled everywhere. I have not added a mulch kit, but I fear it is just too much volume to mulch and long term we may have to do a bagger anyway. I will use the old rig to bag this last cut in hopes that getting rid of the heavy cuts clippings might help for the next mow.

Overall I am extremely happy after the initial run. now I need to workout a good program for keeping the unit clean after each mow.

Another update after second cutting session. The Ferris Def going to take a good bit of changing of how we mow. It is fast, comfortable and I find it easy to be precise with. I upped the rear springs and it helped, but it is still scalping a bit when I cut around trees, or if I turn with any speed at all, I will up the fronts as well for next cut. The scalping on any sloped ground is a definite downside to not busting a kidney in the rough section of the lawn. I have found I have to mow straight up and down the slope, not across it, it it scalps as the mower body rolls with the slope..

I changed pattern up front and it countered the scalping from last week, but also much slower mowing. I will try another pattern next time so see if I can find a balance. I will say being "slower" is relative, it is still faster than the old mower...

On the bagger front I am thinking more and more I will have to pony up for it. That or I have to mow at least 2x a week in spring. I went 5 days and grass clipping are thick ontop of cut grass, just too much growth. I have a hard time believing that it could be mulched down in but I will look at picking up the mulch kit next as it is much less expensive than the bagger.

Overall I am happy with it though 4hrs on the clock so after the next session it gets an oil change.

lamrith said:

Another update after second cutting session. The Ferris Def going to take a good bit of changing of how we mow. It is fast, comfortable and I find it easy to be precise with. I upped the rear springs and it helped, but it is still scalping a bit when I cut around trees, or if I turn with any speed at all, I will up the fronts as well for next cut. The scalping on any sloped ground is a definite downside to not busting a kidney in the rough section of the lawn. I have found I have to mow straight up and down the slope, not across it, it it scalps as the mower body rolls with the slope..

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If the deck rollers are adjustable, drop them a bit to help keep the deck from dipping and scalping.


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tbzep said:

If the deck rollers are adjustable, drop them a bit to help keep the deck from dipping and scalping.


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Yeah that would work too, but they are not, at least not the ones in front.

lamrith said:

Yeah that would work too, but they are not, at least not the ones in front.

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Congratulations on the new mower. I found slowing down a little made a nicer overall cut. Less scalping. Now I’m slowly easing UP the cutting height and found a real nice cut job. Just more frequent. But I love running this machine.
SNAPPER 360Z 25hp Briggs/52” ZT2800s.

Thanks. I love mowing with mine as well, definitely glad I bought it..

lamrith said:

Thanks. I love mowing with mine as well, definitely glad I bought it..

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For the conditions you've described I think a mulch kit is a mistake. I recommend you give Gator G5 mulching blades a try and use them to discharge. Or just raise up 1/4 to 1/2 imch and give a quick second cot to mulch up and disperse the heavy clippings.

Learning the quirks more and more. I firmed up the springs all around on it and that has helped with the scalping when turning. I might start to ease the rears off a bit as it does ride a bit hard now. One trick I have found is when I am doing my cuts around trees I raise the deck 1/2" and do my close tight cuts that I do before I do the bulk cutting. Then back to normal cut height for my long passes and not having to get super close to the obstacles. The new rig definitely has cut the moving time by at least half. I mowed the back last week in <1hr when it used to take over 2.

Just finally got the mulching kit in and installed. My gut is telling me it will not be an option in spring time of year here but I have to give it a shot. It works ok when the growth is not severe, quite well in fact. The heavy growth areas, I went back over again as Darryl recommended and that second pass seemed to help, but I still have a fair bit of clumping.

lamrith said:

Learning the quirks more and more. I firmed up the springs all around on it and that has helped with the scalping when turning. I might start to ease the rears off a bit as it does ride a bit hard now. One trick I have found is when I am doing my cuts around trees I raise the deck 1/2" and do my close tight cuts that I do before I do the bulk cutting. Then back to normal cut height for my long passes and not having to get super close to the obstacles. The new rig definitely has cut the moving time by at least half. I mowed the back last week in <1hr when it used to take over 2.

Just finally got the mulching kit in and installed. My gut is telling me it will not be an option in spring time of year here but I have to give it a shot. It works ok when the growth is not severe, quite well in fact. The heavy growth areas, I went back over again as Darryl recommended and that second pass seemed to help, but I still have a fair bit of clumping.

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Thanks for the update. Sounds like overall it's working out for you. As far as going back over areas, I usually mow them and keep going to other areas, then come back and run them over again. Just letting the grass sit and dry for a little while can make a big difference. Some clumps are just too dense to break up. That's when my backpack blower comes into play.