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15hp 597cc Kohler vs. 16hp 452cc Toro

#1

I

islandwide

I am looking at the Toro SS3200 zero turn riding mower. Apparently it is available with a 15hp 597cc Kohler motor OR a 16hp 452cc Toro motor. Frankly, I think the unit w/the Kohler motor has been discontinued but they are still available. Both are the same price. The Toro has 1 more HP, but the Kohler is a larger motor.

Which should I buy?

Thanks.

Brian Myers on Long Island


#2

Grass ala Mowed

Grass ala Mowed

Generally a larger motor will have more torque. Does the larger size have a longer stroke; that's like a longer prybar.


#3

I

islandwide

Here's what my research has found.

Kohler motor: Courage SV470
Max HP: 15
Max Torque: 27
Bore: 94mm
Stroke: 86mm

Kohler Engines: SV470: Courage: Product Detail: Engines



The "Toro" motor is model LC1P92F-1 and is seemingly made by "Loncin".
Max HP: 16
Max Torque: 27
Bore: 92mm
Stroke: 68mm

Toro | Toro Engine LC1P92F-1 Certified Power Ratings Chart

Loncin LC1P92F-1 16HP Vertical Shaft Engine ｻ Mikes Chainsaw Shop


Considering the Toro's smaller size, the power is impressive. But frankly, w/those specs I'm not sure it will make a difference which model I get. Do you agree?


#4

reynoldston

reynoldston

When I read this trend I didn't know Toro made a engine. I did a search and found they do make a engine. Alway learning. I find my Wheel horse and two Toro mower are well made but know nothing about Toro engines and never heard of them so I am going to say you would be better off with a Kohler. Just guessing on this but is the Toro engines something new and who makes them?


#5

K

KennyV

I can't imagine Toro would Make their own engine... there are just too many to out there to choose from.

It has to be like the "John Deere" labeled B&S..
But then you do always hear of someone trying to reinvent the wheel... :smile:KennyV


#6

P

possum

What little I can find on that Toro engine would seem to be a larger version of the Toro Chinese engines. Someone has to take the leap of faith and try these engines this year but I am to cowardly unless I can get one from a dealer. Many of the Toro lawnmowers are going to have the Toro Chinese engines on them this year but I had not heard about a larger version. Toro is really stepping out this season .


#7

I

islandwide

Here's what I was able to find:

Kohler motor: model sv470
Max HP: 15
Max Trq: 27
Bore: 94mm
Stroke: 86mm

"Toro" motor: model LC1P92F-1 (possibly made by "Loncin"?)
Max HP: 16
Max Trq: 27
Bore: 92mm
Stroke: 68mm


I tried posting links to my sources but the post got blocked for moderation. Maybe it will appear soon.

Brian


#8

jmurray01

jmurray01

Grass ala Mowed said:
Generally a larger motor will have more torque. Does the larger size have a longer stroke; that's like a longer prybar.
Click to expand...
If it is a larger motor, is will have a longer stroke, as you rightly said, and will be better than something with one extra HP!

I now own a 2.6HP Walk Behind, and it has just the same power as the 3.5HP engine I had in my previous mower.

The only difference is that because the 2.6HP engine is only 100CC, compared to the 150CC engine in the 3.5HP engine, it bogs down when I go through some thick grass.

It has never stalled out though, so I'm happy to keep using it and will just cringe slightly when she chugs going through the tough stuff!

You know something ? I think I may have a gift for saying something that could be said in 20 words in 200 words :laughing:


#9

reynoldston

reynoldston

possum said:
What little I can find on that Toro engine would seem to be a larger version of the Toro Chinese engines. Someone has to take the leap of faith and try these engines this year but I am to cowardly unless I can get one from a dealer. Many of the Toro lawnmowers are going to have the Toro Chinese engines on them this year but I had not heard about a larger version. Toro is really stepping out this season .
Click to expand...

When I seen Toro engines the same thought came to my mine. Chinese keep away but didn't come across where they are made?


#10

pugaltitude

pugaltitude

I was on a Toro/Hater course a few weeks ago and they had the Toro engine in for stripdown.
Looks spitting image of a Kohler.
Ball race bearings on the cranks and the balancers which would usually be a bush.
Ok Toro will be strict on there specifications when building them but it is chinese and not a Briggs.

I would expect it to be built in the same factory as jmurray01's Mountfield engine.


#11

I

islandwide

jmurray01 said:
If it is a larger motor, is will have a longer stroke, as you rightly said, and will be better than something with one extra HP!
Click to expand...

As per the ratings I posted elsewhere in this thread, both motors have the same torque rating. Should I just forget about the 1 extra HP on the Toro and consider the Kohler motor because it is larger? Side-by-side, which do you think would perform better? Which would last longer?

Thanks.


#12

reynoldston

reynoldston

islandwide said:
As per the ratings I posted elsewhere in this thread, both motors have the same torque rating. Should I just forget about the 1 extra HP on the Toro and consider the Kohler motor because it is larger? Side-by-side, which do you think would perform better? Which would last longer?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Who would have a answer to which would last longer. As I see it the Toro is a new engine and that is something that has to be proven thought the years of use. As for myself being in the repair business all my life I have found that something new takes some time to get all the bugs out and don't be one of the first person to try it out . My vote would be Kohler because they have been around for years, not to say you can't get a dud.


#13

S

Shedmechanic

My two cents......I would not touch a chinese rebranded engine. If the other mower with the Kohler is still available I would scoop up that one in a heartbeat.


#14

reynoldston

reynoldston

:
Shedmechanic said:
My two cents......I would not touch a chinese rebranded engine. If the other mower with the Kohler is still available I would scoop up that one in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

I guess that is what I would say but was trying to put it in a softer way :thumbsup:


#15

S

Shedmechanic

reynoldston said:
:

I guess that is what I would say but was trying to put it in a softer way :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I have been known to rub folks the wrong way, but not on purpose. The way I figure it with these junk engines is "why should we in the U.S. tolerate buying these engines when they don't offer the support that is required to maintain these engines?" Just bad business sense to me. I would have hoped a company like Toro would refuse to serve junk like that to their customers. The unfortunate thing is that these mowers will sell because people want cheap instead of quality.


#16

P

possum

From what I have been told Toro is going to support these engines just like any other company does that brands their name on it. They are supposed to be well tested and the parts available. I really do not think any more can go wrong with these than has in the past with Briggs or Tec or Kohler. The branded snowblower engines have been in service now for a good many years from several companies and have performed about as well as any other engine in that service. This is a big deal for Toro and it does not look like they intend to look back much. I think this is going to be the norm , and I think from the looks of most companies lineups the old Lheads are going to gone before much longer. If Troybilt offered the Powermore on their lawnmowers I would already own one as I have a dealer nearby. But I am still to cowardly to buy one from a boxstore or any distance away.


#17

reynoldston

reynoldston

possum said:
From what I have been told Toro is going to support these engines just like any other company does that brands their name on it. They are supposed to be well tested and the parts available. I really do not think any more can go wrong with these than has in the past with Briggs or Tec or Kohler. The branded snowblower engines have been in service now for a good many years from several companies and have performed about as well as any other engine in that service. This is a big deal for Toro and it does not look like they intend to look back much. I think this is going to be the norm , and I think from the looks of most companies lineups the old Lheads are going to gone before much longer. If Troybilt offered the Powermore on their lawnmowers I would already own one as I have a dealer nearby. But I am still to cowardly to buy one from a boxstore or any distance away.
Click to expand...

I for some reason thought the L heads were a thing of the pass. Who still makes them? I really don't know anything about the Toro engine other then said on this forum but if you think it is better it must be. As for me I would want the Kohler and one of the last engines I would buy is Kawasaki and a lot of people love Kawasaki.


#18

S

Shedmechanic

I know Briggs still makes the L head in the quantum engine they put on some push mowers and the 550 series engines are L heads that are used on the MTD brand push mowers and some 2200 psi powerwashers. I just bought a Snapper consumer model self propel this past year just because the L head engines are getting phased out. But Briggs is the only one I know of.------Also, before I forget; I have a Toro dealer that I have bought from in the past that will sit on inventory from year to year because he can't move it. As a result, he has self propel mowers that he is still trying to sell that are from the model year 1998. So if you are going to buy a mower from another year, I would try to find out how old it is, I know that even though a mower is an older mower but is still new it will carry a new warranty with it, but who wants a self propel or any other mower that is supposedly "brand new" that is actually ten years or so old. Hopefully the guy I know that owns the shop is the only one with this old of mowers still trying to sell them as a new unit.


#19

reynoldston

reynoldston

Shedmechanic said:
I know Briggs still makes the L head in the quantum engine they put on some push mowers and the 550 series engines are L heads that are used on the MTD brand push mowers and some 2200 psi powerwashers. I just bought a Snapper consumer model self propel this past year just because the L head engines are getting phased out. But Briggs is the only one I know of.------Also, before I forget; I have a Toro dealer that I have bought from in the past that will sit on inventory from year to year because he can't move it. As a result, he has self propel mowers that he is still trying to sell that are from the model year 1998. So if you are going to buy a mower from another year, I would try to find out how old it is, I know that even though a mower is an older mower but is still new it will carry a new warranty with it, but who wants a self propel or any other mower that is supposedly "brand new" that is actually ten years or so old. Hopefully the guy I know that owns the shop is the only one with this old of mowers still trying to sell them as a new unit.
Click to expand...

Maybe if you were paying 1998 prices it wouldn't be too bad but not 2012 prices. I really don't see anything wrong with a new 1998 mower but would want it for a good price. It just seems some dealers don't want to give you a break on prices and maybe this is they they still have 1998 mowers to sell.


#20

S

Shedmechanic

lawnhero said:
Go with the Kohler. You may want to visit a decent site that has some tips and advice on that kind of stuff.
lawnmowerandtractor com Just a thought so good luck!
Click to expand...

WOW, was that a plug for another website or what?......


#21

K

KennyV

Shedmechanic said:
WOW, was that a plug for another website or what?......
Click to expand...

Every post from this spammer has been cheesy pitch for a poor site... :smile:KennyV


#22

P

possum

I am to computer stupid to understand the spamming thing. What is it they get to benefit them from this type of thing?


#23

K

KennyV

You never know until it's too late...
But anytime a new poster is always urging you to go to a site you have never seen... It is Very likely going to be something that You or your Computer will not enjoy....
Anyway he is gone as are all the posts... so others that are reading this now are likely wondering what is up...
Just someone sneaking spam forwarding links into threads ... but it's gone now, :smile:
:smile:KennyV


#24

F

fastback

Just got back in service. I had a virus and couldn't fix it myself had to send it out. I've been off line since Sunday. I don't know what caused it, but like Kenny said some of the stuff out there will not be enjoyed by you or your computer.


#25

K

Kiwicut

Shedmechanic said:
My two cents......I would not touch a chinese rebranded engine. If the other mower with the Kohler is still available I would scoop up that one in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Hey, weren't we saying this very thing about Japanese copied stuff back in the day? And look at the quality they produce today. Anything can be copied well, and with cheaper labor, the price is right. Everyone NEEDS a bargain these days!


#26

R

Rivets

Toro is using more and more of the Chinese engines this model year. You will see then on both their lawn equipment and snow equipment. At this time I would recommend going with the Kohler. Yes it is probably last years model, but there aren't really any other changes. Chinese engines ran well this past winter and seemed to be pretty good. They did have a recall last year on carbs (on the snow pup machines) having a problem with ethynal added fuels. Redid the carbs and fuel line and seemed to solve the problem for now. I think we will see more problems with the Chinese vs fuel problems in the years to come. As most of you know the ethynal is bringing us a lot of work. I have seen the Chinese engine with Kohler, Cub, Toro, MTD, and Murray names on the engine. I wish someone would come back with Tecumseh Snowking engine!!! Best winter engine ever built.


#27

K

Kiwicut

The ethanol problem can be solved by NOT using regular grade fuel which can have up to 10% ethanol and lasts only a week or two before causing problems. I switched to premium grade which doesn't use ethanol. No more problems!


#28

R

Rivets

We recommend that to our customers, but people just don't seem to listen very well. We even put a sticker saying that on ever engine which comes through the shop. What more can we do?


#29

E

Edward L. Adair

It's just vmy opion,But keep buying Chinese and be owned by the Chinese and O Bama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:


#30

K

Kiwicut

Edward L. Adair said:
It's just vmy opion,But keep buying Chinese and be owned by the Chinese and O Bama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:
Click to expand...

Thought this was about lawnmowers!!!


#31

K

KennyV

Some new folks just can not control themselves ... they have to try to make blanket & pointless political statements...
Guess it must make them feel like they know something.
It would be nice to keep this about engines... :smile:KennyV


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