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Z master 6000 spindles

#1

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

G'day fellow slashers from Sunny Aus. Have just joined after going goggle eyed via you tube vids trying to suss out the proper procedure for replacing bearings on my $ earner. I've read the operator manual & the additional docs. to do with these spindles & am still at a loss as to the proper way to tackle job. I believe I have the 119-8560 spindle assembly that has the 15/16 bolt & washer holding the blade on underneath & a 33mm nut on topside.
Most "how to's" state to take the 15/16 bolt & blade off 1st which has me stuffed how you go with ol' 33mm with nothing to wedge under deck against blade to stop the 33 from spinning !
Oh also the pulley had 3 x 9/16 nuts securing it down onto spindle hub. Does this hub have to be 'convinced' to lift off thus allowing the shaft to drop out the bottom, or am I missing something here regards the 33mm nut on top .
Any help/suggestions would be hugely appreciated guys & if more info. or pics. needed please sing out & I will post. I did search forum & reckon the help is here from what I read but man my eyes are burning & I couldn't read past page 7 !!
Killer forum, I think I'll like it here. Lol !!


#2

B

bertsmobile1

I would hope you have a detail of the spindle.
But just in case here is one
119-8560.jpg

So once the nut # 2 is removed the spindle knocks out of the housing down towards the blade.
No need to remove the housing unless you are thinking about using a press .
If you have an impact then just hold the blade , tightly so a glove would not hurt
If you don't have an impact then it becomes a bit more difficult but the trick is to block the blades from turning
Do not hold the blade bolt because it will turn
Use a hollow point drift on the spindle to avoid damage to the grease nipple .
The bottom bearing usually comes out with the spindle & the top one gets knocked out.
Note the circlip
Bearings are 6205's
I use a Z on the top and 2 RS on the bottom
You will stuff the grease seals which is why I use the shielded & sealed bearings but the grease seal must go back in to make up space.
It is a weird set up as there is nothing stopping the spindle rising up in the housing other than the fit between the lower bearing & the housing
For my professional customers I make up a spacer to go between the outer race of the lower bearing and the circlip.
The shielded bearings ( ZZ ) are not sealed so allow air & grease to exit the housing when you grease them.
I like to have them on the top because that is where the air space will be and also where water will get in unless you are silly enough to use the deck wash .
If you remove one of the rubber seals then the outer will pop when you grease the spindle sp leave both of them there but the inner shield can be removed which I normally do.
Full time users get about a full season out of the bearings .
I can not fathom out why Toro used such a light duty bearing in a very strong housing .
Allow an hour for each one till you get the hang of it.
I have not found any difference in the service life of the bearings between using sealed & unsealed bearings and the grease seal is dearer than the bearings .


#3

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

Cheers fella, sounds like you've spent more than a few minutes spannering with mowers. Appreciate you taking the time to post with a bit of detail. Yes I did have that illustration but again cheers for including it. I got this Z second hand & i'm starting to lean towards last owner may have loctited this damn nut as OMFG ! I've never worked on 1 so friggin tight. I actually joined here & posted & was prepared for watching more vids as last resort b4 taking the whole housing off.. I might learn how to detach the deck at some point as man it's a bastard spot to work on & forever wishing I had a 3rd arm !! I actually set up a looped chain over the blade with a snap on shackle other end to attach thru one of the many holes along front bottom edge, 33mm sock on 600mm long breaker bar stuck inside a 2 foot length of 40mm galv. pipe..... & still it sat there motionless & taunting me !
Is there a tell tale sign to determine if some sort of product has been applied with the nut ?
Oh yeah & that's gold with bearing #'s as was having no luck cross referencing on bearing suppliers sites & Ebay served up a match from " International seller " in US if I recall & think it was something like $18 bearing becomming a $70 purchase with shipping, customs & list goes on.
Ha this time of year I'd probably be lucky to have by end of January anyways..
Well enough chit chat , time to go back out & call my Z a few choice words . Lol !!


#4

B

bertsmobile1

If you are using an impact you have to remove the deck as the right hand spindle is under the frame.
As the deck almost falls off you are mad if you don't remove it to do spindles
Put some long 2 x 4's under the deck wit the extra length on the right ( discharge ) side then drop it onto the timber and uncouple
The tension idler has a square hole in it for a breaker bar
Take the tension off the belt then roll it off the left hand spindle pulley followed by the engine pulley
From there either slide the deck out on the wood like rails or lift the front of the mower over the deck & roll it backwards ( easier with 2 people ) .
And yes the nuts do get tighter than Packer's wallet.
I have a very big air impact and even it struggles with them some times.
If they have not been off for a long time, remove the pulleys then take the spindles out, leave the blades on toss them into the back & take it to a truck repair workshop & ask them to loosen the nuts for you.
They have the big boys tools and most like a beer or three
If you have a ute, van or flattie then take the whole deck.
And just in case I can not change my previous post the bearings are 6205 not 6305 .
Finally do not buy bearings off Amazone and be very wary about evilpay there are a lot of junk bearings out there and all of them are sold via web shops .
My customers pay around $ 20 for the bearings and 25 for the seals, the z's are a bit dearer than the RS's
If you go with unsealed bearings then the upper Victa power torque bearng seems to give the best service life of the various 6205's commonly used on mowers .

The Toro shop wanted $ 35 each for the bearings when I ordered a pair to check the sizes so I could have them ready for the customer because it was to be an overnight service.


#5

StarTech

StarTech

Considering Toro specs unsealed bearing the RS can be used if you simple remove the seals. But not non sealed 6205 do have beefier outer shells are they are not cut for the seals.

Here I would use is the Koyo bearings but the Spinco I buy for homeowners mover usually holds just as well. But I do replace all the grease in the sealed bearing with EP2 grease. What comes packed with is just poor quality and dries up too quickly.

I do have a customer currently with Hustler using 6205 Spinco bearings with the seals removed. He been cutting 5 acres weekly since I installed them.


#6

B

bertsmobile1

StarTech said:
Considering Toro specs unsealed bearing the RS can be used if you simple remove the seals. But not non sealed 6205 do have beefier outer shells are they are not cut for the seals.

Here I would use is the Koyo bearings but the Spinco I buy for homeowners mover usually holds just as well. But I do replace all the grease in the sealed bearing with EP2 grease. What comes packed with is just poor quality and dries up too quickly.

I do have a customer currently with Hustler using 6205 Spinco bearings with the seals removed. He been cutting 5 acres weekly since I installed them.
Click to expand...
That works fine if the grease seals are in good order or you are going to replace them .
The top seals can usually be reused one or two times but the lowers will usually be wrecked .
I can not find a reasonably priced alternative to the $ 40+ Toro grease seal down here so the instructions are for not replacing the grease seals.
The open Victa bearing is an NTN supplied through RGS and it is one of their biggest selling bearings. At less than 1/2 the price of the same bearing from Briggs most mower shops use it.
The ZZ is Stens Hustler spindle bearing and the 2 RS is another NTN from RGS .
THe seals on a bearing are there to keep the contaminants out of the bearing, not to keep the grease in and if the inside seal is removed to allow the grease in the spindle housing to get to the balls then the outer seal will pop the first time the housing is greased.
As the grease is being applied from the top of the deck, I put the ZZ in the top so I can tell when the housing is full of grease.
IT would be better from a mechanical view to have the zz on the bottom where contamination is a greater problem but that makes the deck that little bit harder to service & I don't like making work harder for myself


#7

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

*update* Thanks to all who responded & special mention to Bertsmobile1 for detailed responses. I got bearings from CBC bearings @ $14.10 a pop & believe it or not ( coz stupid me forgot to buy new seals ) I managed to re-use both seals. Turns out my air compressor just wouldn't cut it so despite not wanting to initially I removed the entire assembly & took it to a mate's place & his vice & big boy air comp. soon sorted out that bastard nut.Was in no rush so really took my time & took no short cuts. Had a slight " OH F*CK " moment when realised 2 of the 3 threads on the hub were worn so i had to take a thread file to them before putting pulley back on.. Tightened all back up , rechecked & greased & so far so good I was cutting yesterday for about 4-4.5 hrs.
Next up is sorting out a damn throttle cable that wont stay fully opened for length of time instead creeping back down . Had a quick look & it's that plastic housing the actual cable goes thru as when you push the lever forward the housing moves forward with the cable. Was getting around it by slipping needle nose pliers down the crack to hold housing back as pushed lever but time to sort properly !
Once again thanks boys & I know where to come to with any future problems.
Hope ya's ( & loved ones ) enjoy the festive season, Laugh, love & drink lots & stay safe !!
cheers


#8

StarTech

StarTech

You might be surprised to later to find out it may not be the compressor size but is either your impact or restrictions in the air supply lines like the couplers and plugs. What i have found here was that I need hi-flow coupler and plugs as I was line pressure drops at the impact. Even I had 125 psi to start, it instantly dropped to 20 psi as soon as I pulled the trigger change the couplers and plugs; now I got full pressure at the impact when in use.


#9

B

bertsmobile1

Same as Star.
Fitted Nitto connector to the compressor and got a much better response .
Next trick was to change the line from the compressor to the tank to a bigger diameter solid copper tube with reducer bushings both ends so it would bolt up.
Now that you have them off.
make sure you pull them off at least once every season .
Both the nuts self tighten in use co by regularly removing the blades for sharpening you prevent the nuts over tightening .
I try to encourage my customers to buy 2 sets of blades, one on the mower & one set sharpened and ready to be fitted so when the blades become dull it is only a 10 minute job to swap blades & finish mowing.
Next question is what size deck are you running ?
All of my customers with Z masters & Titans are now running substitute belts, either Hustler or Exmark deck belts depending upon the deck size they seem to run fine and are as little as 1/2 the Toro price.
IF you are mowing for a living then a fresh set of sharp blades at least weekly if not daily will make a big difference.
Not only will the mower cut better but you will also be able to cut quicker .
As you have little control over the ground that the mower will be running over you also need those spare blades in the truck just in case you find that hidden star picket end , not fully rotted fence post or tree stump.
Ditto for a spare belt or two ,
All bar 2 of my commercial customers do this and their mowers are a doddle to service.
As for the 2 who run a set till they are stumps and leave a 4" wide uncut strip between blades, the less said about them the better , but their nuts get cut off & replaced if the impact will not knock them off in a couple of minutes.
IF you can't find a block of hardwood to lock the blades then get a blade holder that clamps onto the deck rim for doing blades in the field .
Also get a ring spanner to fit the nuts for field changes as they tend not to pop off when being pushed by your foot like a socket will.
A lot cheaper than a battery impact that will always be in the wrong place when you need it if you have a ramp set up that allows you clean access to the deck ( most use full with ramps which don't )


#10

StarTech

StarTech

I am currently running a 1300 ft-lb impact with V style couplers and plugs on a 3/8 100ft run on air line to a 25 gallon compressor system. I even take the 7 cu-ft air on job sites and usually don't need extra air as it usually just bump of trigger..


#11

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

bertsmobile1 said:
Same as Star.
Fitted Nitto connector to the compressor and got a much better response .
Next trick was to change the line from the compressor to the tank to a bigger diameter solid copper tube with reducer bushings both ends so it would bolt up.
Now that you have them off.
make sure you pull them off at least once every season .
Both the nuts self tighten in use co by regularly removing the blades for sharpening you prevent the nuts over tightening .
I try to encourage my customers to buy 2 sets of blades, one on the mower & one set sharpened and ready to be fitted so when the blades become dull it is only a 10 minute job to swap blades & finish mowing.
Next question is what size deck are you running ?
All of my customers with Z masters & Titans are now running substitute belts, either Hustler or Exmark deck belts depending upon the deck size they seem to run fine and are as little as 1/2 the Toro price.
IF you are mowing for a living then a fresh set of sharp blades at least weekly if not daily will make a big difference.
Not only will the mower cut better but you will also be able to cut quicker .
As you have little control over the ground that the mower will be running over you also need those spare blades in the truck just in case you find that hidden star picket end , not fully rotted fence post or tree stump.
Ditto for a spare belt or two ,
All bar 2 of my commercial customers do this and their mowers are a doddle to service.
As for the 2 who run a set till they are stumps and leave a 4" wide uncut strip between blades, the less said about them the better , but their nuts get cut off & replaced if the impact will not knock them off in a couple of minutes.
IF you can't find a block of hardwood to lock the blades then get a blade holder that clamps onto the deck rim for doing blades in the field .
Also get a ring spanner to fit the nuts for field changes as they tend not to pop off when being pushed by your foot like a socket will.
A lot cheaper than a battery impact that will always be in the wrong place when you need it if you have a ramp set up that allows you clean access to the deck ( most use full with ramps which don't )
Click to expand...


Cheers mate, yeah it's a 60" deck & I hear ya about the blades. As I've got a few sites of irrigated turf obviously like to have prime blades. Also got a load of vacant block jobs leading up to start of fire season so I've always had 2 sets of blades .I will stick with Toro blades as I did source some ring in Gator blades off Ebay that were piss weaker than a butter knife & the last straw was when my far left blade snapped 1/3 off end & shot back into the main tyre. I'm a fan of that tyre slime that I put into my spare that seemed to have a weep in it but the fist size hole left in that pummelled tyre was er.... asking too much. Lol ! Near fell over when quoted $330 for new 24"x12"x12" tyre !
Also gd. advice on the ring spanner & bit of calf muscle grunt for out in field that i was already alert to having been shown many moons ago back in my Council days fanging around on front deck Toro Groundmaster's.
I'm loading the Z up & taking it out for job today & I have swapped belts over to one I got from US that's OEM specs so it says. Placed the order on 4th & missed postie people trying to deliver it on 20th which I thought wasn't too bad being Xmas & all & with postage, customs etc. was exactly half price of a Toro(alleged) belt.
All spot on advice that I couldn't agree more with. Cheers.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

Does your mower take the #114-4420 ,$ 235 , 202.75" belt or the #105-8783 , $ 264 , 242" belt ?


#13

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

bertsmobile1 said:
Does your mower take the #114-4420 ,$ 235 , 202.75" belt or the #105-8783 , $ 264 , 242" belt ?
Click to expand...


neither mate. it's the 114-5858.......$164..........or $86 via USA.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

So it's a B 196,25" belt.
I sub the Hustler 784207 belt for that one
At 195" it is a little shorter but a lot cheaper at $ 110 Aus to my customers.
When you get to these lengths +/- 2" makes SFA difference


#15

bbbobbbo69

bbbobbbo69

so far so gd. with this US belt on but cheers for info. I'll keep in mind.
I won't be rude & continue my new problems on here I shall start another thread** hint hint ol' mate bertsmobile1** Lol !


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