Would you buy a lawn mower with a 2 cycle engine ?

[Fat_Bollocks]

...Most self appointed enviromental crusaiders , while being very passionate, have no understanding of science.
his is why I cancelled my life subscription to Greenpeace...

Those organizations start up with benevolent intention. But, over time, many of them get corrupted. American trade unions are a prime example of this, differing from environmentalist groups in that the trade unions mentioned were infiltrated by organized criminals. These other humanitarian organisations become aware that once an environmental problem is solved, there would no longer be a reason to donate to these organizations. Therefore, they would have to disband and their administrators would suddenly be left without income

... crusaiders...

:laughing: You even write with an Australian accent, Mait

 

[bertsmobile1]

Those organizations start up with benevolent intention. But, over time, many of them get corrupted. American trade unions are a prime example of this, differing from environmentalist groups in that the trade unions mentioned were infiltrated by organized criminals. These other humanitarian organisations become aware that once an environmental problem is solved, there would no longer be a reason to donate to these organizations. Therefore, they would have to disband and their administrators would suddenly be left without income :laughing: You even write with an Australian accent, Mait

No spell checker on the computer & I am a 40wpm typist on a good day.
I don't think it is a case of consultants disease, just a case of cherry picking "cute " causes or becoming obsessed.

hazelwood power station down here is a perfect example.
The "office dwelling greenies" are hell bent on closing it down.
It sits on top of the largest deposit of brown coal ion the planet.
Scientists want the brown coal gassified ( in fact all coal should be gassified before being burned but that is a different story ) , then the existing power station converted to direct gas turbines.
Thus thousands of tons of steel towers and hundreds of tons of copper wire, tansformers etc all remain in use.
The byproducts of the gassified coal are all valuable inputs to the chemical industry so again more employment.
Even better is the effluent from Melbourne ( 3.5 million people ) could be membrane processed into industrial grade water to feed the turbines thus solving Melbourne's lack of water problems.
The water processing is directly scaleable so could be used to balance the grid.

But no the greenies are getting their way and the plant is closing , hundreds will be out of work & electricity will become 30% more expensive so more people will use wood fires to heat their homes therefore subsantially increasing the overall pollution.

 

[nbpt100]

Yeah there 4-stroke, there owned and made by Toro now and to my knowledge Toro doesn't make and never has made a 2-stroke.

Lawnboy is part of Toro.
Toro has made 2 stokes but they don't any longer.

I have owned a few two stroke mowers and I would prefer to not own one again. One was a Lawn boy and the other a toro. The Toro was a very nice mower, but not because it was a two stroke. I say that inspite of it being a two stroke. It had an aluminum deck so rust would never be an issue.

Two strokes require mixing gas. You usually need to use higher octane gas. Some reiquire 89 octane and some even higher. They do smoke more than a 4 stroke even if they improve them they will still smoke more and drink e gas faster. That alone makes them pollute more.

The weight difference is not a big deal on most walk behinds. If you have a heavy mower or have some imparement you can always get a self propelled.

It is a pretty easy decision for me.

The only real benefit would be if you have to mow a hill of any size. And I do not.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Smoke is not the only pollutant that comes out of an engine, two stroke or four strokes.
The dangerous stuff is what you can not see.
When doing emission tests the primary focus is on unburned hydrocarbons and then on Carbon monoxide & dioxide.
They largely ignore nitrates & nitrides and these are far more dangerous pollutants than the first two.
Because of the lean burn requirements on all engines, except jets for aircraft the volumes of nitrogen compounds has skyrocketed.
It is still 5/8 of SFA in total volumes which is where the stupidity lies.
Then there is embedded pollution, that which is made during the manufacture & distribution of the mower.
The difference between a 2 stroke & 4 stroke is equivalent to around 100 hours for a 160cc 2 stroke.
So the "dirty two stroke " is two years ahead of the "clean 4 stoke" before they come out of the box total pollution wise.
Most 4 stroke engines are only EPA compliant for 2 to 3 years, meaning that after 3 years their exhausts are just about the same as that of the 2 stroke which barely changes over a 10 year period.
The only test I heard of tested our 160 cc 2 stroke power torque engine against a 160 cc Honda & a 145 cc Briggs as they all claimed the same 6 hp output.
After 5 years the ( lab simulated ) use the Briggs exhaust was the same as the Victa and it rapidly got worse.
It took the Honda 8 years to get to par with the Victa, emissions wise and after that it just got dirtier.
Now when you changed the fuel il ratio from 25:1 to 50:1 the two stroke was on par with the 4 strokes from day one.
With a fuel oil ratio of 100:1 the emissions from the 2 stroke engine were actually less that the Briggs and only marginally dirtier than the Honda from new.
This study used 60 hours as a years worth of mowing and assumed that each engine would run for 10 years.
The life of a Powertorque is yet to be determined as most dating from 1982 when it was introduced are still running.

Now part of the problem has to be shouldered by ignorant boards & marketing experts.
The Victa's used to be 25:1 when we were mixing motor oil into petrol.
When marine 2 stroke oil was blended the mowers could have gone to 50:1 but boards of white men who have never mowed a lawn decided that their customers were too stupid to understand that better mixing oils would allow the engines to be run with less oil .
When ashless 2 stroke oil was blended you could safely push this out to 70:1 but the powers decided to stick with 25:1.
This caused a lot of carbon fouled engines that became hard to start and lost a lot of power so the public dumped their Victas in favour of Hondas so the board shot themselves in the foot.
When Tier II was announced the "research teams" found that with a modification to the carby cam, Diaphragm spring & main jet the mowers would run 100:1 all day and all night.

There is no arguement that a 2 stroke uses more fuel but to call them more polluting is way off beam.
If there is still petrol powered mowers in 20 years the truth about pollution from mowers will come out.
But all of the engine makers have confirmed thay can not meet the new emission regulations without going to fuel injection and then it will be touch & go.

Interesting where the requirement for high octane petrol comes from.
The Briggs, Victa , Suzuki two strokes sold here all run on plain old unleaded.
Marie two strokes did require higher octane fuel but they have not been made for near 20 years.

 

[Fat_Bollocks]

Over here, in Europe, octane isn't an issue, bacause all of our fuel now starts at 95. I think, in Switzerland, they still offer 92. The others abolished 92, simply so that they could reap more profits selling unneeded octane for perhaps the majority of motorists at 95 profits while maintaning one less pump. So much for that.
As far as the future of 2-cycles getting marginal because of emissions claims, you could run a clean propane or cleaner natural gas-powered 2-cycle, as long as it has pressure induction oiling. If older fuel-mix mowers can't be adapted accordingly, tough luck, unfortunately