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What's missing in this picture?

#1

S

StvnJ

The first picture is the one I'm asking the question about. It runs on high all the time. Shouldn't there be a throttle lever like in the second picture? What part am I searching for? The third picture he's up the whole mower. It's a Craftsman.


#2

S

StvnJ

Here are the pictures

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#3

M

mechanic mark

Craftsman Model number, starts with 3 #'s, & throttle cable is missing.


#4

R

Rivets

Don’t see anything missing in the first picture. You have two totally different throttle controls. First picture is a constant throttle control assembly, no speed adjustment. The second picture shows a speed control assembly, which is setup to change engine speed. Different engines use di Speed controls.


#5

S

StvnJ

Don’t see anything missing in the first picture. You have two totally different throttle controls. First picture is a constant throttle control assembly, no speed adjustment. The second picture shows a speed control assembly, which is setup to change engine speed. Different engines use di Speed controls.
The reason I think there should be a control lever is the Hi-Lo labels. If it's supposed to be left alone I don't know why the labels would be there.


#6

S

StvnJ

Craftsman Model number, starts with 3 #'s, & throttle cable is missing.
917. 380290


#7

S

StvnJ

Don’t see anything missing in the first picture. You have two totally different throttle controls. First picture is a constant throttle control assembly, no speed adjustment. The second picture shows a speed control assembly, which is setup to change engine speed. Different engines use di Speed controls.
Here's one exactly like it. I screen grabbed the pic from a YouTube video. I'm trying to figure out what replacement part to search for.

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#8

R

Rivets

To me you‘re over thinking it. Labels are cheap, doesn’t mean anything to me. That model Tecumseh engine had dozens of different uses and different control setups. Better to look on the type of equipment that engine was mounted on. That will indicate which control assembly was used.


#9

S

StvnJ

The first picture is the one I'm asking the question about. It runs on high all the time. Shouldn't there be a throttle lever like in the second picture? What part am I searching for? The third picture he's up the whole mower. It's a Craftsman.
This is exactly the same engine. The red lever is the part I'm searching for. How do I find it?

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#10

R

Rivets

I’ll bet that if you look on the engine ID tag you’ll find that the engines are different. You’ll also find that the linkage is different.


#11

sgkent

sgkent

what is the serial number? very little comes up on 917380290. What does shows most items on it are obsolete.


#12

S

StvnJ

I’ll bet that if you look on the engine ID tag you’ll find that the engines are different. You’ll also find that the linkage is different.


#13

S

StvnJ

Okay, I have to admit it runs great without an adjustment lever. It just idols fast. I put a forceps on it. That's all I need. Thanks for answering my question! Have a great weekend!


#14

StarTech

StarTech

well the original engine was 143.995502 (Tecumseh LEV115-355016D). None of the ipls even list the part shown as available. It is shown in the line drawings but not the part list.


#15

I

ILENGINE

well the original engine was 143.995502 (Tecumseh LEV115-355016D). None of the ipls even list the part shown as available. It is shown in the line drawings but not the part list.
But it does show the 33086 rpm adjusting lever on diagram two. Which is the arm that connects to the intake manifold for fixed speed engines.


#16

StarTech

StarTech

Yes I don't know Tecumseh very well at all. They were a dead breed when I started repairing these engines.


#17

V

VegetiveSteam

Some engines have speed controls and some don't. Yours doesn't. Pretty common on Craftsman mowers. Nothing is missing. I really never understood a speed control on a push mower. Why would you ever run the engine at less than full speed?


#18

B

bertsmobile1

Some engines have speed controls and some don't. Yours doesn't. Pretty common on Craftsman mowers. Nothing is missing. I really never understood a speed control on a push mower. Why would you ever run the engine at less than full speed?
you idle them down when moving stuff from the lawn , which of course you should have done before you started, moving garden furnature so you can mow underneath them or emptying the catcher
All good reasons to idle down an engine that does not have an "I AM THE STUPIDIST MORON ON THE PLANET" dead mans ignition that 99.9999% of the people tape to the bras in any case because it strains their fingers or gives them blisters.


#19

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Sears pioneered the cheapest pushmower movement. A mower without a throttle control and an engine with no ability to vary the speed is cheaper to make. It works just fine.


#20

I

ILENGINE

Sears pioneered the cheapest pushmower movement. A mower without a throttle control and an engine with no ability to vary the speed is cheaper to make. It works just fine.
The no throttle control on push mowers because a big thing following the EPA emissions standards of 2004, In order for the engine to meet emission standards it had to pass exhaust requirements throughout it entire throttle range. Easily to meet those standards with a fixed throttle engine. When this occurred I had several customers that tried to bypass the fixed throttle control, and in some cases added throttle cables. But wouldn't work correctly because those engines also lacked the idle circuit in the carb so would run like crap at lower that expected rpm's


#21

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Back in about 1969 we had one of the first sears Eager 1 mowers. No deadman on the handle. The only control was a toggle switch on top of the engine shroud to kill the ignition. Push the primer and pull the rope and it ran at full speed till you flipped the switch. No idle circuit in carb so that is not a new idea. I have had people want me to "fix up" a throttle control on those fixed speed trashcumseh mowers. Sorry.


#22

I

ILENGINE

Back in about 1969 we had one of the first sears Eager 1 mowers. No deadman on the handle. The only control was a toggle switch on top of the engine shroud to kill the ignition. Push the primer and pull the rope and it ran at full speed till you flipped the switch. No idle circuit in carb so that is not a new idea. I have had people want me to "fix up" a throttle control on those fixed speed trashcumseh mowers. Sorry.
A lot of people complained about the Tecumseh engines being junk. Back when Tecumseh was still in business early 2000, Briggs had like 66% of the market, and Tecumseh had like 13%, and my Briggs to Tecumseh failure rate was 15:1 So they were not that bad of an engine from my own experience.


#23

B

Blaine B.

Does anyone ever run their mower on anything but full throttle?


#24

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

A lot of people complained about the Tecumseh engines being junk. Back when Tecumseh was still in business early 2000, Briggs had like 66% of the market, and Tecumseh had like 13%, and my Briggs to Tecumseh failure rate was 15:1 So they were not that bad of an engine from my own experience.
I am a fan of the old cast iron tecumseh engines. I still have and use a HH120 and a VH100. Got a few others laying around. Just not a fan of the newer push mower engines. Lots of broken con rods on the MH engines too.


#25

I

ILENGINE

I am a fan of the old cast iron tecumseh engines. I still have and use a HH120 and a VH100. Got a few others laying around. Just not a fan of the newer push mower engines. Lots of broken con rods on the MH engines too.
And after that series with the connecting rod issues, Tecumseh beefed up their connecting rods, and very seldom did one break after that unless ran without oil. The internal components on their V twins were overbuilt and had massive connecting rods and bearing surfaces.


#26

R

Rivets

Ditto IL on Tecumseh engines. I would take almost everyone of their models today, if they were available over 90% of the others on the market today.


#27

V

VegetiveSteam

Does anyone ever run their mower on anything but full throttle?
For some dumb reason they do. Some think the engine is too loud so they run it about about half throttle. I remind them that they are dealing with an "Air Cooled Engine" and when they run the engine slower they are also slowing down their cooling fan. I ask them if they would run their car's radiator half full?


#28

V

VegetiveSteam

you idle them down when moving stuff from the lawn , which of course you should have done before you started, moving garden furnature so you can mow underneath them or emptying the catcher
All good reasons to idle down an engine that does not have an "I AM THE STUPIDIST MORON ON THE PLANET" dead mans ignition that 99.9999% of the people tape to the bras in any case because it strains their fingers or gives them blisters.
It was somewhat of a rhetorical question and I know people do idle them down for the reasons you mentioned but is it really necessary? It's all personal preference of course but if I'm only taking 10 or 20 seconds to move something I just let it run full and keep as much cooling air flowing over that engine as possible.

When I bag I use a Snapper and I will either leave it a full throttle or shut it off. That set up on the mower is such that if you let the bag get a bit too full and idle the engine down to take the bag off, clippings want to fall into the discharge chute and at idle not all gets blown out. At full throttle it just blows it out. If I let the bag get way too full then I shut it off because I know I'm going to be having to pull some grass out of the chute and I don't want to be the cause of any more safety labels needing added to equipment.

I don't believe there is a wrong way. It's preference and what you've gotten used to doing. The only thing I believe is wrong is when people are mowing at less that full throttle.


#29

V

VegetiveSteam

Back in about 1969 we had one of the first sears Eager 1 mowers. No deadman on the handle. The only control was a toggle switch on top of the engine shroud to kill the ignition. Push the primer and pull the rope and it ran at full speed till you flipped the switch. No idle circuit in carb so that is not a new idea. I have had people want me to "fix up" a throttle control on those fixed speed trashcumseh mowers. Sorry.
Was the mower deck orange and the engine gray? We had one when I was a kid. It worked fine but was hard to restart hot.


#30

V

VegetiveSteam

And after that series with the connecting rod issues, Tecumseh beefed up their connecting rods, and very seldom did one break after that unless ran without oil. The internal components on their V twins were overbuilt and had massive connecting rods and bearing surfaces.
The bad thing about Tecumseh engines was what I heard my former boss and mentor say many times. "You have to be a mechanic to work on a Tecumseh not just a parts changer."

If you knew how to work on a float style carb and new how to set the point gap with a dial indicator you would end up with an engine that was pretty hard to beat. The sadness is that when Tecumseh went out of business in 2007 there were building a really good engine. Greed and bad management killed Tecumseh.


#31

B

Blaine B.

The bad thing about Tecumseh engines was what I heard my former boss and mentor say many times. "You have to be a mechanic to work on a Tecumseh not just a parts changer."

If you knew how to work on a float style carb and new how to set the point gap with a dial indicator you would end up with an engine that was pretty hard to beat. The sadness is that when Tecumseh went out of business in 2007 there were building a really good engine. Greed and bad management killed Tecumseh.
Did Tecumseh manufacturer engines in China or Mexico like Briggs does?


#32

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

How many backyard mechanics took the coil/point assy off a tecumseh and not mark it and then try to get it back on right. Read the book procedure and bring you dial indicator. Not complicated at all


#33

V

VegetiveSteam

Did Tecumseh manufacturer engines in China or Mexico like Briggs does?
Everyone manufacture's engines in China today but to the best of my knowledge, Tecumseh never did. They moved most if not all of their engine production to Brazil and then got into some issue with the Brazilian government and the government locked them out from what I understand.


#34

I

ILENGINE

The bad thing about Tecumseh engines was what I heard my former boss and mentor say many times. "You have to be a mechanic to work on a Tecumseh not just a parts changer."

If you knew how to work on a float style carb and new how to set the point gap with a dial indicator you would end up with an engine that was pretty hard to beat. The sadness is that when Tecumseh went out of business in 2007 there were building a really good engine. Greed and bad management killed Tecumseh.
The Kohler K-series with their point setting was somewhat tedious also. They put .020 in the manual, but was just a starting point. The actual adjusted gap could be .016-.024 if following proper adjustment procedures. Either had to use a timing light to set the timing according to the timing marks, or use a ohm meter and play with the timing marks to get the points to open at the correct BTDC,


#35

V

VegetiveSteam

The Kohler K-series with their point setting was somewhat tedious also. They put .020 in the manual, but was just a starting point. The actual adjusted gap could be .016-.024 if following proper adjustment procedures. Either had to use a timing light to set the timing according to the timing marks, or use a ohm meter and play with the timing marks to get the points to open at the correct BTDC,
The timing light was my preferred method. I've seen a few holes burned through K-series cylinder heads because the points weren't set correctly. I normally didn't get a call until they burned a hole in the new replacement head in about 15 to 20 hours of being replaced.


#36

I

ILENGINE

@VegetiveSteam The timing light is a faster method, but in cases where accessing the point cover screws without removing the engine or the engine is not on the equipment the ohm meter works.


#37

V

VegetiveSteam

@VegetiveSteam The timing light is a faster method, but in cases where accessing the point cover screws without removing the engine or the engine is not on the equipment the ohm meter works.
And finding the site hole in the bearing plate could also be challenging some times depending on how the engine was mounted. Maybe not so much finding it but being able to see in it.


#38

B

bertsmobile1

It was somewhat of a rhetorical question and I know people do idle them down for the reasons you mentioned but is it really necessary? It's all personal preference of course but if I'm only taking 10 or 20 seconds to move something I just let it run full and keep as much cooling air flowing over that engine as possible.

When I bag I use a Snapper and I will either leave it a full throttle or shut it off. That set up on the mower is such that if you let the bag get a bit too full and idle the engine down to take the bag off, clippings want to fall into the discharge chute and at idle not all gets blown out. At full throttle it just blows it out. If I let the bag get way too full then I shut it off because I know I'm going to be having to pull some grass out of the chute and I don't want to be the cause of any more safety labels needing added to equipment.

I don't believe there is a wrong way. It's preference and what you've gotten used to doing. The only thing I believe is wrong is when people are mowing at less that full throttle.
For an air cooled engine running at low idle for 2 minutes while you do one of those tasks is a lot better for the engines than shutting down & restarting this applies particularly for the cool bore unlined alloy barrels .
Remember we use mowers for our benefit and for a lot of people restarting 5 times when mowing can be quite a problem
I have a lot of older people in my run who are over the moon when I refill their mowers with 10W 40 oil so they can actually pull start them cold.
Women in particular are amazed when I take them a Honda powered mower and for the first time in decades they can start a mower.
Very few of these older people ( often widows ) would be up to starting their mowers 5 time a mowing session.I have probably removed the flywheel brake? dead mans ignition from at least 50 mowers so the older customers can use them.
It is a big problem that mowers seem to be designed by shaved gorillas with 10" long fingers.
I spent a long time modifing one of the Toro SP mowers that has 3 bails on it that make the handle bar cluster so dig I could barely get mu hand around it and it is nearly impossible to drop the motion clutch so you can pull the mower backwards without dropping the blade clutch & throttle at the same time .
Then there is one of the Hondas with variable speeds that is fine flat chat but if you are old & walk slow then the speed control bail is 3" below the handle bar another impossible grip .


#39

B

bertsmobile1

The bad thing about Tecumseh engines was what I heard my former boss and mentor say many times. "You have to be a mechanic to work on a Tecumseh not just a parts changer."

If you knew how to work on a float style carb and new how to set the point gap with a dial indicator you would end up with an engine that was pretty hard to beat. The sadness is that when Tecumseh went out of business in 2007 there were building a really good engine. Greed and bad management killed Tecumseh.
Bad management not greed
When you supply the bottom end of the market, the price pressures are massive so the instant some one offers one of you customers an engine 1¢ cheaper than yours, you loose a sale
All engine makers are just assemblers of mostly bought in parts so there is 5/8 of SFA profit per engine thus they must keep massive sales to cover the fixed cost .
Just loosing a small customer like Victa who sold about 3,000 tecumseh powered mowers a year can be enough to send the business to the wall.
So from the first day that the US push mower assemblers starting buying engines from China ,Tecumseh was doomed .
So the greed was not Tecumseh but the retailers like Walmart, Lowes , & HF who demanded lower prices from the factories .
And the retailers will say ( not really truely ) that it was the greed of the buying public that was driving their prices down .
So ultimately what killed Tecumseh is the same as what killed B & S and will kill every US made engine maker
1) management solely fixated on dividends
2) Chinese government policy designed to use the greed of foreign businesses to destroy the manufacturing base of the countries they operate in to undermine the governments


#40

I

ILENGINE

Bad management not greed
When you supply the bottom end of the market, the price pressures are massive so the instant some one offers one of you customers an engine 1¢ cheaper than yours, you loose a sale
All engine makers are just assemblers of mostly bought in parts so there is 5/8 of SFA profit per engine thus they must keep massive sales to cover the fixed cost .
Just loosing a small customer like Victa who sold about 3,000 tecumseh powered mowers a year can be enough to send the business to the wall.
So from the first day that the US push mower assemblers starting buying engines from China ,Tecumseh was doomed .
So the greed was not Tecumseh but the retailers like Walmart, Lowes , & HF who demanded lower prices from the factories .
And the retailers will say ( not really truely ) that it was the greed of the buying public that was driving their prices down .
So ultimately what killed Tecumseh is the same as what killed B & S and will kill every US made engine maker
1) management solely fixated on dividends
2) Chinese government policy designed to use the greed of foreign businesses to destroy the manufacturing base of the countries they operate in to undermine the governments
The funny thing is most of the fall of the US small engine manufacturer and various products all circles back around to the bankruptcy of Murray. Murray was a large user of Tecumseh engines With the purchase of Murray by Briggs set up the issue of MTD seeing Briggs no longer as an engine supplier but as a competitor, which ushered in the MTD powermore engine line.

Most of the small engine manufacturers have a much larger main business like Honda with their auto and powersports lines. Subaru with the auto line. Kohler with the plumbing fixture line. Tecumseh in the small engine world was known for their engines and transaxles but were actually a very large manufacturers of compressors for refrigeration systems. Briggs at one time was a large manufacturer of automotive parts.


#41

B

bertsmobile1

The funny thing is most of the fall of the US small engine manufacturer and various products all circles back around to the bankruptcy of Murray. Murray was a large user of Tecumseh engines With the purchase of Murray by Briggs set up the issue of MTD seeing Briggs no longer as an engine supplier but as a competitor, which ushered in the MTD powermore engine line.

Most of the small engine manufacturers have a much larger main business like Honda with their auto and powersports lines. Subaru with the auto line. Kohler with the plumbing fixture line. Tecumseh in the small engine world was known for their engines and transaxles but were actually a very large manufacturers of compressors for refrigeration systems. Briggs at one time was a large manufacturer of automotive parts.
That is exactly how it goes when you send a business down the high volume low mark up route
only takes one hiccup and the whole lot collapses in a heap
As for MTD it was more likely they were looking for an excuse to source cheaper engines rather than their hand being forced.
And stupidly B & S fell for the threat hook line & sinker.
Had they kept Murray then they probably would not have been bankrupt twice since then.

Manufacturing , as compared to assembling requires a lot of capital invested in machinery and even more in R & D
When we entered the period of shareholders calling the shots and shareholder greed demanding higher returns businesses that used to manufacture dumped that side in order to liberate capital ( to pay the the shareholders as dividends ) .
At this time the P:E ratio became the sole criteria for boards in order to maintain the share price they had to show a better return on capital.
Down side of this was manufactures then only had the single source of profit, the difference in value between a pile of parts & the assembled item , which is a lot less than the difference between a pile of raw materials & a finished component ,
Thus the real percentage of the profits per item sold actually reduced so requiring a larger slice of the market to maintain cash flow .
It is the single most stupid management theory to have come out of Princetown University ever , but the theory of " contraction to your core business" ripped through world markets faster than Covid 19 and the planets financial institutions were awash with cash from selling off "non core assets" which pushed up share prices & generated lots of income, for a select few .
However eventually there was nothing left in the box to sell off and the capital supply went big time into flakey financial products which of course ended up in the GFC.
Sims Metal became the worlds largest scrap metal company because scrap metal ended up being less than 1/3 of the total business as in every boom time Albert G Sims bought out more of his supply chain including all of the land his plants sat on and then diversified into things like underpants , TV's , chemicals, glasswear , agricultural equipment , railways, radio stations , travel agencies, work clothes, spectacles , etc, etc etc to the point I could run almost any business and use nothing from outside the group .
Unfortunately they got taken over by Geo Peko ( former version of Peko Wallsend ) when the ranger uranium discovery pushed up the 50¢ shares to over $ 100
and they installed their freshly minted USA Princetown educated graduate who immediately broke the business down & sold off all of the "non core" assets to provide dividends to the Peko shareholders till the mine was actually in operation many years latter .


#42

V

VegetiveSteam

For an air cooled engine running at low idle for 2 minutes while you do one of those tasks is a lot better for the engines than shutting down & restarting this applies particularly for the cool bore unlined alloy barrels .
Remember we use mowers for our benefit and for a lot of people restarting 5 times when mowing can be quite a problem
I have a lot of older people in my run who are over the moon when I refill their mowers with 10W 40 oil so they can actually pull start them cold.
Women in particular are amazed when I take them a Honda powered mower and for the first time in decades they can start a mower.
Very few of these older people ( often widows ) would be up to starting their mowers 5 time a mowing session.I have probably removed the flywheel brake? dead mans ignition from at least 50 mowers so the older customers can use them.
It is a big problem that mowers seem to be designed by shaved gorillas with 10" long fingers.
I spent a long time modifing one of the Toro SP mowers that has 3 bails on it that make the handle bar cluster so dig I could barely get mu hand around it and it is nearly impossible to drop the motion clutch so you can pull the mower backwards without dropping the blade clutch & throttle at the same time .
Then there is one of the Hondas with variable speeds that is fine flat chat but if you are old & walk slow then the speed control bail is 3" below the handle bar another impossible grip .
A lot of older people can't start the mowers because they have never read the user manual or been shown how to start them correctly. It doesn't work for everyone but I know of several new electric start lawnmowers that weren't sold because the customer was shown how to properly start their recoil start mower.


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