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WHAT IS THE BEST PUSH MOWER?
#2
Two-Stroke
Two-Stroke
1977 Lawn-Boy model 7266 (or other Lawn-Boy from the 1970s)
It's light, powerful and will last decades if maintained properly -- and that's not too hard. :wink:
And parts are available.
It's light, powerful and will last decades if maintained properly -- and that's not too hard. :wink:
And parts are available.
#3
S
SirJohn
S
SirJohn
If I recall, there were some old 214 series hondas that were pretty legendary as well. If you want current best brand new models, and are looking at 21" non propelled models, I would say probably either the Honda HRC216PDA or the Toro commercial 22155.
#4
reynoldston
reynoldston
I am going to vote for Toro. I have two of them both over 30 years old and still going strong.
#5
rekees
Consumer Reports rates the Honda HRX2172HXA as the best self propelled.
rekees
Hi all. WHAT IS THE BEST PUSH MOWER? Price is no object.
Thanks in advance
Stephen
Consumer Reports rates the Honda HRX2172HXA as the best self propelled.
#6
S
SirJohn
S
SirJohn
I just thought I would add something. Best can be a relative term. You need to consider what would be best for your needs. Are you doing commercial mowing where you need ridiculous durability and longevity? If not, it may be better to look at some lower price models. There may be features on the consumer grade models that are handy as a homeowner that aren't found on a commercial grade model. Some people may need a lighter weight and commercial models tend to be heavier and if they are only using them for basic residential duty and giving proper maintenance, a residential model will last a good many years.
First step is to figure out your needs. What is the area that is to be mowed and how frequently? Do you need self-propelled? I know in my case a self-propelled wasn't feasible given that I have a small yard with a lot of tight areas with obstacles that would require a lot of pushing and pulling back on the mower. The size and weight of self-propelled and the extra hassle of having to constantly engage and dis-engage the drive meant that in my case, the standard push mower was a better option.
First step is to figure out your needs. What is the area that is to be mowed and how frequently? Do you need self-propelled? I know in my case a self-propelled wasn't feasible given that I have a small yard with a lot of tight areas with obstacles that would require a lot of pushing and pulling back on the mower. The size and weight of self-propelled and the extra hassle of having to constantly engage and dis-engage the drive meant that in my case, the standard push mower was a better option.
#7
L
LandN
the absolute best mower beyond the shadow of a doubt is the mower that YOU decided on AFTER your research,and comparison shopping,and finding YOUR needs of a mower to do the job that it's intended for.....commercial or homeowner mower? rwd or fwd? propelled or not? dealer or box store? how the mower fits you? rear bagger or side bagger? etc. etc. by doing a lot of homework/legwork and getting ideas on this forum will you THEN be able to go and buy the BEST mower for YOU. Everybody has different needs and requirements of a mower in different parts of the USA.just a side note here,It took me 6 months to end up with the BEST snowblower:biggrin: good luck in your journey
L
LandN
Hi all. WHAT IS THE BEST PUSH MOWER? Price is no object.
Thanks in advance
Stephen
the absolute best mower beyond the shadow of a doubt is the mower that YOU decided on AFTER your research,and comparison shopping,and finding YOUR needs of a mower to do the job that it's intended for.....commercial or homeowner mower? rwd or fwd? propelled or not? dealer or box store? how the mower fits you? rear bagger or side bagger? etc. etc. by doing a lot of homework/legwork and getting ideas on this forum will you THEN be able to go and buy the BEST mower for YOU. Everybody has different needs and requirements of a mower in different parts of the USA.just a side note here,It took me 6 months to end up with the BEST snowblower:biggrin: good luck in your journey
#8
R
robert
R
robert
Neighbor has the Honda with the 'plastic' deck, has not changed the oil in 6 years, machine runs perfectly AND the synthetic deck is in better shape than any metal deck I have ever seen-plus its alot quieter than any other I have listened to.
#9
JDgreen
One that is PAID FOR, STARTS EASILY, CUTS WELL, and best of all, RELIABLE. When you say price is no object, you are wrong. I doubt if anyone here can buy a mower and not be concerned about price. I am sure you could have a shop build your dream push mower, mine would have a 36 inch cut, an aluminum deck, a 20 hp Onan, and be able to run for hours on a gallon of fuel and be a true zero turn. And pull me behind on an air conditioned sulky while I watch dirty movies on a big screen...yes, someone would be willing to build me one if I wanted to pay the price. GET REAL.
JDgreen
Hi all. WHAT IS THE BEST PUSH MOWER? Price is no object.
Thanks in advance
Stephen
One that is PAID FOR, STARTS EASILY, CUTS WELL, and best of all, RELIABLE. When you say price is no object, you are wrong. I doubt if anyone here can buy a mower and not be concerned about price. I am sure you could have a shop build your dream push mower, mine would have a 36 inch cut, an aluminum deck, a 20 hp Onan, and be able to run for hours on a gallon of fuel and be a true zero turn. And pull me behind on an air conditioned sulky while I watch dirty movies on a big screen...yes, someone would be willing to build me one if I wanted to pay the price. GET REAL.
#10
JDgreen
Has not changed the oil in 6 years...anybody who would treat a mower like that is a MORON.
JDgreen
Neighbor has the Honda with the 'plastic' deck, has not changed the oil in 6 years, machine runs perfectly AND the synthetic deck is in better shape than any metal deck I have ever seen-plus its alot quieter than any other I have listened to.
Has not changed the oil in 6 years...anybody who would treat a mower like that is a MORON.
#11
Two-Stroke
I agree -- not maintaining the mower properly is hardly something to brag about.
Two-Stroke
Has not changed the oil in 6 years...anybody who would treat a mower like that is a MORON.
I agree -- not maintaining the mower properly is hardly something to brag about.
#12
reynoldston
I hope you aren't living in a dream world. Being in the repair end of it I see it a lot. I person buys a cheap mower and never changes the oil from being a new mower and lucky to add any. Now when it starts to give them problems they get rid of it and buy another cheap new mower. When I get a mower repair the first thing I do is check the oil and go from there. Just because you or I take care of our equipment you will find a lot of good people that don't and that doesn't make them a MORON.. A mower is not there living and maintenance isn't their thing.
reynoldston
Has not changed the oil in 6 years...anybody who would treat a mower like that is a MORON.
I hope you aren't living in a dream world. Being in the repair end of it I see it a lot. I person buys a cheap mower and never changes the oil from being a new mower and lucky to add any. Now when it starts to give them problems they get rid of it and buy another cheap new mower. When I get a mower repair the first thing I do is check the oil and go from there. Just because you or I take care of our equipment you will find a lot of good people that don't and that doesn't make them a MORON.. A mower is not there living and maintenance isn't their thing.
#13
JDgreen
It amazes me that ANYONE could be too cheap and lazy to change their oil in a push mower. All you need is a dishpan to drain the oil into, an empty milk jug to pour it in, and a quart of oil.
JDgreen
I hope you aren't living in a dream world. Being in the repair end of it I see it a lot. I person buys a cheap mower and never changes the oil from being a new mower and lucky to add any. Now when it starts to give them problems they get rid of it and buy another cheap new mower. When I get a mower repair the first thing I do is check the oil and go from there. Just because you or I take care of our equipment you will find a lot of good people that don't and that doesn't make them a MORON.. A mower is not there living and maintenance isn't their thing.
It amazes me that ANYONE could be too cheap and lazy to change their oil in a push mower. All you need is a dishpan to drain the oil into, an empty milk jug to pour it in, and a quart of oil.
#14
R
robert
R
robert
I can't explain it either, but this is what he has done, what everyone can take away from this is that Honda makes one heck of an engine on the pushers, and that composite deck is amazing in how much BETTER it withstands wear than any steel or aluminum deck-add in either the lower noise level/lower frequency of the noise (its strikingly different from any other mower I have heard) and this is a winner.
#15
reynoldston
To you or me that is nothing to change the oil. I really don't think it is lazy or cheap. First of all a office worker doesn't want to get oil on there hands. They don't own a wrench and wouldn't know how to use it if they did and not going to learn. Now if they did change the oil they got to git of the old oil. It's just not going to happen. They are making big money so throw away the old mower and buy new that is if they mow there own grass. That gives them a nice new shining mower to show off how rich I am. There is a lot of money where I live and lawn care business is a good business to be in here.
reynoldston
It amazes me that ANYONE could be too cheap and lazy to change their oil in a push mower. All you need is a dishpan to drain the oil into, an empty milk jug to pour it in, and a quart of oil.
To you or me that is nothing to change the oil. I really don't think it is lazy or cheap. First of all a office worker doesn't want to get oil on there hands. They don't own a wrench and wouldn't know how to use it if they did and not going to learn. Now if they did change the oil they got to git of the old oil. It's just not going to happen. They are making big money so throw away the old mower and buy new that is if they mow there own grass. That gives them a nice new shining mower to show off how rich I am. There is a lot of money where I live and lawn care business is a good business to be in here.
#16
D
djrussell
D
djrussell
I work in an office and still do all my own maintenance on everything. I make decent money but still like to use it all efficiently. Your perceptions are a bit skewed. Then again, I'm an engineer. Maybe that doesn't count. :smile:
#17
JDgreen
People need a wrench to open the oil fill cap on a push mower? That's news to me. If they can't get it open by hand it means they used a wrench or pliers to tighten it too much.....which means they have a wrench or pliers.
Funny, one of my neighbors is a medical care equipment salesman who works with doctors all week long but he changes his own oil. Two are cops, they change their own oil. The rest of us are retired, we change our own oil.
JDgreen
To you or me that is nothing to change the oil. I really don't think it is lazy or cheap. First of all a office worker doesn't want to get oil on there hands. They don't own a wrench and wouldn't know how to use it if they did and not going to learn. Now if they did change the oil they got to git of the old oil. It's just not going to happen. They are making big money so throw away the old mower and buy new that is if they mow there own grass. That gives them a nice new shining mower to show off how rich I am. There is a lot of money where I live and lawn care business is a good business to be in here.
People need a wrench to open the oil fill cap on a push mower? That's news to me. If they can't get it open by hand it means they used a wrench or pliers to tighten it too much.....which means they have a wrench or pliers.
Funny, one of my neighbors is a medical care equipment salesman who works with doctors all week long but he changes his own oil. Two are cops, they change their own oil. The rest of us are retired, we change our own oil.
#18
JDgreen
You are one smart man. There is a thread going around in Tractorbynet where someone took his nearly new Toyota truck to his dealership for an oil change and the morons who did the work failed to tighten the drain plug. The problem with having things like that done is most people assume the people they are paying big money to KNOW and CARE about what they are doing.
Well, most of them (paid dealer staff) don't give a flying f--- about what they are doing. Sad, but true.
JDgreen
I work in an office and still do all my own maintenance on everything. I make decent money but still like to use it all efficiently. Your perceptions are a bit skewed. Then again, I'm an engineer. Maybe that doesn't count. :smile:
You are one smart man. There is a thread going around in Tractorbynet where someone took his nearly new Toyota truck to his dealership for an oil change and the morons who did the work failed to tighten the drain plug. The problem with having things like that done is most people assume the people they are paying big money to KNOW and CARE about what they are doing.
Well, most of them (paid dealer staff) don't give a flying f--- about what they are doing. Sad, but true.
#19
reynoldston
I am not saying every one does not change their oil. But for some reason it just seems I see it on the repair jobs that come to me often but not always. When there is just a little oil on the end of the oil stick , when the rod is broken and the journal is scored or the engine looks like a bomb went off inside it I can sure tell you the reason why and it isn't because of too much maintenance. I don't call these people bad names moron, lazy, etc. I call them good customers. It must be your repair customers are a lot different then the ones I see because yours are all perfect. Now I am in the repair side not the mowing side. The only lawn I mow is my own.
reynoldston
People need a wrench to open the oil fill cap on a push mower? That's news to me. If they can't get it open by hand it means they used a wrench or pliers to tighten it too much.....which means they have a wrench or pliers.
Funny, one of my neighbors is a medical care equipment salesman who works with doctors all week long but he changes his own oil. Two are cops, they change their own oil. The rest of us are retired, we change our own oil.
I am not saying every one does not change their oil. But for some reason it just seems I see it on the repair jobs that come to me often but not always. When there is just a little oil on the end of the oil stick , when the rod is broken and the journal is scored or the engine looks like a bomb went off inside it I can sure tell you the reason why and it isn't because of too much maintenance. I don't call these people bad names moron, lazy, etc. I call them good customers. It must be your repair customers are a lot different then the ones I see because yours are all perfect. Now I am in the repair side not the mowing side. The only lawn I mow is my own.
#20
JDgreen
If you get customers because some people are morons I don't know whether to feel happy for you or sorry for them....
As for me when I was working I did spend a lot of time as a maintenance mechanic fixing other people's careless work. I had plenty to do otherwise and it irked the heck out of me when I wasted time correcting other peoples stupid mistakes or carelessness.
JDgreen
I am not saying every one does not change their oil. But for some reason it just seems I see it on the repair jobs that come to me often but not always. When there is just a little oil on the end of the oil stick , when the rod is broken and the journal is scored or the engine looks like a bomb went off inside it I can sure tell you the reason why and it isn't because of too much maintenance. I don't call these people bad names moron, lazy, etc. I call them good customers. It must be your repair customers are a lot different then the ones I see because yours are all perfect. Now I am in the repair side not the mowing side. The only lawn I mow is my own.
If you get customers because some people are morons I don't know whether to feel happy for you or sorry for them....
As for me when I was working I did spend a lot of time as a maintenance mechanic fixing other people's careless work. I had plenty to do otherwise and it irked the heck out of me when I wasted time correcting other peoples stupid mistakes or carelessness.
#21
reynoldston
I agree I should just start just start calling them names when they want their mower repaired and tell them how dumb they are. I just feel so bad because it is my fault that they don't maintain their mower. I will just hang my head in shame as to how bad of a person I am. Thank-you for letting me know this. I know I should just go to there house and change their oil for free once a year and then would that make me a good boy? Just to let you know this repair business is nothing I need, it is more something I use to keep myself busy in retirement. If I was doing it to make money it sure won't be repairing mowers and spending my time on this forum. Been there an did that long hours of work. It just looks like you might have just a little more aggressive personalty then me. YOU WIN
reynoldston
If you get customers because some people are morons I don't know whether to feel happy for you or sorry for them....
As for me when I was working I did spend a lot of time as a maintenance mechanic fixing other people's careless work. I had plenty to do otherwise and it irked the heck out of me when I wasted time correcting other peoples stupid mistakes or carelessness.
I agree I should just start just start calling them names when they want their mower repaired and tell them how dumb they are. I just feel so bad because it is my fault that they don't maintain their mower. I will just hang my head in shame as to how bad of a person I am. Thank-you for letting me know this. I know I should just go to there house and change their oil for free once a year and then would that make me a good boy? Just to let you know this repair business is nothing I need, it is more something I use to keep myself busy in retirement. If I was doing it to make money it sure won't be repairing mowers and spending my time on this forum. Been there an did that long hours of work. It just looks like you might have just a little more aggressive personalty then me. YOU WIN
#22
Two-Stroke
Two-Stroke
While I wouldn't call someone names for not properly maintaining a mower or other piece of equipment, doing that doesn't speak well for that person.
But the original point on which this thread got sidetracked was that not changing the oil for six years implies that the [still running] mower is a good one. I reject that -- it doesn't imply that the mower is better -- maybe the owner was just lucky. And the mower in question was a Honda -- not an el cheapo brand. Why pay a premium for a good machine like that and not maintain it?
I'm also a "white collar" worker who changes his own oil, etc -- but I realize that that I'm unusual. I had consistently bad experience with the service department at my local Nissan dealer and have been much happier after the truck went off warranty and I started doing the service myself.
But the original point on which this thread got sidetracked was that not changing the oil for six years implies that the [still running] mower is a good one. I reject that -- it doesn't imply that the mower is better -- maybe the owner was just lucky. And the mower in question was a Honda -- not an el cheapo brand. Why pay a premium for a good machine like that and not maintain it?
I'm also a "white collar" worker who changes his own oil, etc -- but I realize that that I'm unusual. I had consistently bad experience with the service department at my local Nissan dealer and have been much happier after the truck went off warranty and I started doing the service myself.
#23
L
LandN
L
LandN
well, during further thought on this subject and based on my post on the 1st page,i went out today and cut the front yard with my cylinder(reel) mower(been in storage) and it did not disappoint. Its a different experience cutting than that of the popular rotary mowers.the lightweight, easy to finesse little 14" cut reel makes the yard somehow look nicer.so now i'm on a learning journey of the vast amount of 'reel' mower brands and all about them.wow,this is getting good.maybe, just maybe a brill or frisker mower is in the garage NEXT SEASON. hhhhmmmm.
#24
S
Stephen0523
S
Stephen0523
Hi all. Thanks for the comments. I do need self propelled. I am looking for a unit that can withstand major use (commercial) and that will lass me a lifetime, if that is possible!
Stephen
Stephen
#25
R
robert
R
robert
If anyone can show me another brand mower, 4 stroke, that has ran for six seasons without an oil change, with the majority of the initial fill still in the engine, which does not smoke;I will buy one..
#26
JDgreen
Your lifetime or the lifetime of the mower ROTFLMAO....
JDgreen
Hi all. Thanks for the comments. I do need self propelled. I am looking for a unit that can withstand major use (commercial) and that will lass me a lifetime, if that is possible!
Stephen
Your lifetime or the lifetime of the mower ROTFLMAO....
#27
JDgreen
If somebody asked me to fix something that they neglected or abused I would tell them straight out they were STUPID AND NEGLECTFUL. Maybe some people have dollars to throw away, that doesn't excuse stupidness or neglect. Want to hear about the moron I met maybe 12 years ago? He borrowed my work truck an a state-owned $75000 Ford F-700. I told him to be sure to check the oil when he filled it with fuel. Know what the idiot did? He thought the oil pressure gauge was reading low, and despite the dipstick reading full, he kept adding quart after quart trying to get the gauge to read higher, until the oil began pumping out of the filler cap hole and set the engine on fire.
HTF can ANYBODY BE THAT STUPID!!!!????
JDgreen
I agree I should just start just start calling them names when they want their mower repaired and tell them how dumb they are. I just feel so bad because it is my fault that they don't maintain their mower. I will just hang my head in shame as to how bad of a person I am. Thank-you for letting me know this. I know I should just go to there house and change their oil for free once a year and then would that make me a good boy? Just to let you know this repair business is nothing I need, it is more something I use to keep myself busy in retirement. If I was doing it to make money it sure won't be repairing mowers and spending my time on this forum. Been there an did that long hours of work. It just looks like you might have just a little more aggressive personalty then me. YOU WIN
If somebody asked me to fix something that they neglected or abused I would tell them straight out they were STUPID AND NEGLECTFUL. Maybe some people have dollars to throw away, that doesn't excuse stupidness or neglect. Want to hear about the moron I met maybe 12 years ago? He borrowed my work truck an a state-owned $75000 Ford F-700. I told him to be sure to check the oil when he filled it with fuel. Know what the idiot did? He thought the oil pressure gauge was reading low, and despite the dipstick reading full, he kept adding quart after quart trying to get the gauge to read higher, until the oil began pumping out of the filler cap hole and set the engine on fire.
HTF can ANYBODY BE THAT STUPID!!!!????
#28
RobertBrown
Are you saying that the vehicle belonged to the state, the tax payers?
RobertBrown
If somebody asked me to fix something that they neglected or abused I would tell them straight out they were STUPID AND NEGLECTFUL. Maybe some people have dollars to throw away, that doesn't excuse stupidness or neglect. Want to hear about the moron I met maybe 12 years ago? He borrowed my work truck an a state-owned $75000 Ford F-700. I told him to be sure to check the oil when he filled it with fuel. Know what the idiot did? He thought the oil pressure gauge was reading low, and despite the dipstick reading full, he kept adding quart after quart trying to get the gauge to read higher, until the oil began pumping out of the filler cap hole and set the engine on fire.
HTF can ANYBODY BE THAT STUPID!!!!????
Are you saying that the vehicle belonged to the state, the tax payers?
#29
reynoldston
Maybe you are mad because you did a no no and let someone borrow a state owned truck and got in trouble over it? I don't know what happen but you do and I can see you are very upset with that person. I just don't call people names not even you. Could it be that we have different personalities? I find most people have good in then, even you. No matter what you tell me I am not going to change my mine on that. Just why are you so aggrieve we don't even know each other. I am sorry if I offended you and I think this is a very foolish thing to argue about. How about, it lets you and me just along with each other you call them names and I won't. Looks like we agree on one thing we both like cats.
reynoldston
If somebody asked me to fix something that they neglected or abused I would tell them straight out they were STUPID AND NEGLECTFUL. Maybe some people have dollars to throw away, that doesn't excuse stupidness or neglect. Want to hear about the moron I met maybe 12 years ago? He borrowed my work truck an a state-owned $75000 Ford F-700. I told him to be sure to check the oil when he filled it with fuel. Know what the idiot did? He thought the oil pressure gauge was reading low, and despite the dipstick reading full, he kept adding quart after quart trying to get the gauge to read higher, until the oil began pumping out of the filler cap hole and set the engine on fire.
HTF can ANYBODY BE THAT STUPID!!!!????
Maybe you are mad because you did a no no and let someone borrow a state owned truck and got in trouble over it? I don't know what happen but you do and I can see you are very upset with that person. I just don't call people names not even you. Could it be that we have different personalities? I find most people have good in then, even you. No matter what you tell me I am not going to change my mine on that. Just why are you so aggrieve we don't even know each other. I am sorry if I offended you and I think this is a very foolish thing to argue about. How about, it lets you and me just along with each other you call them names and I won't. Looks like we agree on one thing we both like cats.
#30
JDgreen
JDgreen
Yes it was a state owned truck my tax $$$ paid for it too no I did not get in trouble it just amazed me people can be so stupid as to not have any mechanical aptitude the guy who kept pouring oil in the truck engine was a sports nut he could name every player in the NBA but can't read a dipstick? Sorry if I seem abrasive but I have no tolerance for people who neglect mechanical things.
#31
P
possum
P
possum
Alot of folks do not have the mindset for such things . What you ran into with the truck is typical of someone trying to do right but doing harm by doing so. A little knowledge is dangerous. I know my neighbors pretty well, most of them never change the oil in their small lawnmowers. Most of them still run well after a few years of this and the engine does not cause the loss of the mower it is the other things breaking or falling apart. The scrap yard here that takes mowers to junk has stacks of engines they sell to some buyer down south. My neighbor across the street has a small shed full of cheap lawnmower engines and other parts from folks who just drop a mower off at his place on their way to buy another. The young mother across from my fatherinlaw rolls her pusher over every spring to ask him to check the oil. She then mows all season with it. Most mowers get bought around here when income tax money comes back. Buying a new pusher every year or two is common due to bad carbs, or the wheels break.
#32
D
Darl Bundren
D
Darl Bundren
I had one of the Hondas with the Xenoy decks, and while the deck held up well, it did not do too well for mowing--finely mulched grass from the double blade setup would glom on there and I'd have to scrape under the deck after every mowing. And then the transmission went out and they wanted $300 for a replacement. Whew. I sold it.
I like my Lawnboys a ton, but they've been giving me trouble with the carbs getting all gunked up. If they're running right I'd put them up there among the best, but in my experience it's hard to keep them running right because the plastic carbs are a weak link in a great engine.
I like my Lawnboys a ton, but they've been giving me trouble with the carbs getting all gunked up. If they're running right I'd put them up there among the best, but in my experience it's hard to keep them running right because the plastic carbs are a weak link in a great engine.
#33
lawn mower fanatic
Personally I would say Honda. You said you didn't like the Zenoy decks, well the HRX mower (the on on the left in the picture) has a NeXite deck, which is durable AND functional. I love it!
lawn mower fanatic
I had one of the Hondas with the Xenoy decks, and while the deck held up well, it did not do too well for mowing--finely mulched grass from the double blade setup would glom on there and I'd have to scrape under the deck after every mowing. And then the transmission went out and they wanted $300 for a replacement. Whew. I sold it.
I like my Lawnboys a ton, but they've been giving me trouble with the carbs getting all gunked up. If they're running right I'd put them up there among the best, but in my experience it's hard to keep them running right because the plastic carbs are a weak link in a great engine.
Personally I would say Honda. You said you didn't like the Zenoy decks, well the HRX mower (the on on the left in the picture) has a NeXite deck, which is durable AND functional. I love it!
#34
R
ramaglia375
I actually experienced the same thing with another major auto manufacturer after dealer servicing. The oil plug actually fell out when I was driving down the highway.
R
ramaglia375
You are one smart man. There is a thread going around in Tractorbynet where someone took his nearly new Toyota truck to his dealership for an oil change and the morons who did the work failed to tighten the drain plug. The problem with having things like that done is most people assume the people they are paying big money to KNOW and CARE about what they are doing.
Well, most of them (paid dealer staff) don't give a flying f--- about what they are doing. Sad, but true.
I actually experienced the same thing with another major auto manufacturer after dealer servicing. The oil plug actually fell out when I was driving down the highway.