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I have allot of dead spots, pine needles, etc. in my yard and especially when mulching leaves in the fall generates quite a bit of dust.

Here is what my old Snapper's filter looked like after mulching leaves one fall. I can't understand how the engine did suffocate:



This would probably be what a filter on my car would look like after 100,000 miles. You know if I ran it that long.

Used to I'd just take the sock off the paper filter, rinse it out in kerosene then blow the paper filter element with compressed air. Usually about halfway through the season then at the start of the next season. Or maybe even in the middle of fall.

Awhile back I decided to see what would happen if I actually washed the paper element in kerosene. I let it out and It didn't fall apart. Mower runs just the same.

What were the pros and cons of the old oil bath filters and the foam rubber filters prior to paper filters?

I know foam rubber will eventually disintegrate. What about washing a paper element in kerosene?

Considering how much dust I generate, to me these paper style elements just clog up way too fast.

I looked to see if K&N made a filter for my lawnmower (21hp Intek B&S) but they do not. Not to say I couldn't make my own using some RTV, wire mesh and cotton gauze.

Anybody have the same problem?

The "right" thing to do is to buy several outer foam covers .
Wash them in hair shampoo , squeeze out excess water between flat sheets of paper , don't scrunch them up.
Then let them dry fully in shade.
Swap them every 2nd or 3rd mow which is why you have a couple.
Toss the dirty ones in the shower and wash them when you are having a tub yourself.

Never ever blow compressed air through a paper filter.
The same tiny water droplets that bugger you spray painting get blasted right through the filter paper.
Washing paper filters is a no no.
It weakens the fibre and you run the big risk of it getting sucked into the engine.

Oil baths work really well I could not recommend them enough.
They are just messy and in your case will require very regular cleaning.

Oiled foam filters are a mixed bag.
We tried several different ones in our desiel delivery vans because the paper ones were over $ 100 and needed replacement 3 times a year.
One was too high flow and we could not enrichen the pump enough till I blanked off 2/3 of it and not suprising it was found not to be filtering the air enough
We went through 4 different ones till we found one a system that worked but it was a huge 4 stage unit and required almost weekly servicing.

OTOH I run foam filters on my motorcycles and have no problems .
Again I have 3 of each size so there is always a nice clean one ready to be fitted.

Back to your situation, you really need to fit a snorkel to get the mower breathing in cleaner air rather than trying to work inside a dust cloud.
Also you should be removing the blower housing and cleaning off the engine cooling fins regularly if that is what your air filters look like.

The reason your filter looks like that is you are running your engine without an air filter cover. Second if you look closely, you will see that the filter is damaged and should not even be put in use. I don't care what kind of conditions you are in, operating an engine with a damaged filter and no cover is abuse, plain and simple. I service engines with operate around concrete dust and grain dust, which is a lot finer and will clog filters faster than leaves and dirt, and have not seen anything close to that. You should not be allowed to operate an engine if that is how you take care of them. If you want to wash your paper filter with kerosene, go ahead, that engine isn't going to be around very long the way it is pictured anyway.

Why try to save a few$$$ ? Its going to cost you 10 times more than you think your saving right now. Its not worth it .

Isn't that the cover sitting lop left in the picture and he dust is flat at the edges where it has been in contact with the inner surface of the cover.
I can see where the wrap has pulled away from the paper on the upper left but don't see obvious damage what am I missing ?

Where do people come up with this crap?
And I agree why no cover?
I wash my pre filter once a week with dish soap. I replace the paper filter once a month. But never blow it out with compressed air. That's worse then it being dirty.

Carscw said:

Where do people come up with this crap?
And I agree why no cover?
I wash my pre filter once a week with dish soap. I replace the paper filter once a month. But never blow it out with compressed air. That's worse then it being dirty.

Click to expand...

So what is the triangular thing sitting on top of the finger guard on the blower housing ?

bertsmobile1 said:

So what is the triangular thing sitting on top of the finger guard on the blower housing ?

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the filter cover. I run filter covers on all my mowers. This was after I mulched leaves one fall on a Snapper I used to own.

Bertsmobile1, you mention you run a foam air filter on your motorbikes. My idea was to use one of those foam filters made by a company like a Pipercross. That way I could wash it out every few times after I get done mowing (or inspect it) and stick it back on and 2 weeks later will be ready to mow again.





I'm sure they don't make air filters specifically to fit for small engines but they make that will fit the snout on my carburetor (like 1 to 1.5"). Maybe a crankcase breather filter.

I've heard these stories that K&N filters don't really filter air all that well. Or at least they don't flow any bettter than a paper filter.

I have thought of the idea of using a snorkel. Mainly to be able to inspect the filter more often. You might think from the filter that I don't maintain my mowers but I do. I check the oil before mowing, check the tire pressure, change it and the filter every 50 hours. I also take my leaf blower and blow all the grass out from on top of the deck, through the screen on the engine, actually the entire mower while blowing my driveway off. This may not be a good idea but I also take a pressure washer to it once a year. Just like a dirty car, I don't like riding a dirty mower!

This problem mainly occurs under two conditions. One where we have a dry spell, yet the yard still needs to be mowed (weeds knocked down) and fall when I mulch leaves. When the grass is not dried out, I usually don't kick up that much dust. But there are still areas around my garage I cann't get grass to grow no matter what and creates a dust cloud.

Go to an aftermarket motorcycle shop and have a wander around.
Mower engines and motorcycle engines are around the same capacities and usually have similar choke sizes.
I ran Ducatti 750 filters ( K & N ) on the SR 500's we used for work and Unit filters on most of my BSA pill box filters..
The trick is getting the air induction away from where the dust & debris is getting stirred up.
The biggest push mower company down here ( 70% of the market ) used to fit snorkels to all their mowers including the B & S Sprints, Hondas & Tecumsehs.
I service some of them that are 20+ years old still with the original air filter, still is good condition.
Most of the ones that get replaced is because the damp air has got to them and they have collapsed or the spiders have made so many webs in the housing , the webs are blocking off the air inlets.

bertsmobile1 said:

Go to an aftermarket motorcycle shop and have a wander around.
Mower engines and motorcycle engines are around the same capacities and usually have similar choke sizes.
I ran Ducatti 750 filters ( K & N ) on the SR 500's we used for work and Unit filters on most of my BSA pill box filters..
The trick is getting the air induction away from where the dust & debris is getting stirred up.
The biggest push mower company down here ( 70% of the market ) used to fit snorkels to all their mowers including the B & S Sprints, Hondas & Tecumsehs.
I service some of them that are 20+ years old still with the original air filter, still is good condition.
Most of the ones that get replaced is because the damp air has got to them and they have collapsed or the spiders have made so many webs in the housing , the webs are blocking off the air inlets.

Click to expand...

I don't understand how a snorkel is going to help reduce clogging the filter when mowing through a dust bowel that goes ten feet up in the air. But I'd like to see what your talking about.

When I mulch leaves, the dust stirred up is so bad, I actually wear one of those disposable dust masks. Otherwise I'm blowing dirt out of my sinuses or coughing when I lay down at bedtime.

I didn't want to sound cheap but like your diesel truck fleet, I'd rather find a filter I could wash out instead of having to replace at $15 to $20 a pop a couple of times a year. Actually I probably should change it more often than that.

The old foam rubber filters I remember from when I was a kid, that were cleaned in soapy water, soaked in motor oil then squeezed out seemed to work pretty well. They appeared restrictive though but seemed to do the job. Eventually they would rot and need to be replaced.

What was the reason companies went away from using them? More money to be made selling people over priced paper filters? Less restrictive? More convenient? Appealing to people who do not want to get their hands greasy/dirty? As if changing the oil does not make an awful mess.

Now here is what I'm talking about. I just bought a Citroen 2CV and it has a foam element in it but looks like it needs to be replaced.

turbofiat124

What bert was talking about when he said a snorkle is just to raise the air intake a few feet higher then it is, it might still be in the dust cloud but it will be higher then most of the dust. I have about the same issue as you when it comes to mowing the field at my farm, unless it rained in the past few days it is very dusty and I clean the engine and air filter several times during the day of mowing. On my "Brush cutter from Hell" I used flexible electrical conduit to raise the air filter about 2 1/2 feet above the normal location and it stays much cleaner then in the stock location. I will be moving the air filter box on the rider as soon as I can figure it out
Tom

Found this which might work. I'll have to check to see if the 2 7/16" snout will fit my carburetor on my 21 HP Briggs. I may build me a snorkel while I'm at it.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Briggs-Ra...Racing-Clone-Engine-Air-Cleaner-/201031920202

Below is what I meant by snorkels

This is how we got most tecumsemh down here

Slight variation for a B &S sprint engine

Standard fitment on Victas ( US government would not allow you to buy one ) .
Filter is in the top of the tube and throttle cable runs down the inside so never gets snagged or damaged by bashing into shrubs.

And a thicker snorkel tube but it still uses the same filter.
These filter elements never get clogged as they are sucking clean air from near the top of the handle.

Honda offered a snorkel which replaced the square air filter cover on the 120's and because it was the same dimension as the Quantum series it could be fitted to Briggs engines as well.

Thanks for the photos. It looks like I could easily adapt one of those corrugated hoses from a vacuum cleaner!

The push mower is not a big deal. I only use it for mowing areas I cannot get my riding mower in and this hill behind my house with a 30 to 45 degree incline.

On my riding mower, I would at least like to get the filter outside the engine compartment so I could keep a check on it. I guess I could remove the shield so every time I check the oil and add gas it would be easier to inspect but removing the shield may add to the problem.

Like I said, as long as there is no drought going on or leaves to mulch, the filter doesn't clog up. Like right now, it hasn't rained in over 2 weeks, yet the yard needs mowing from where we got about 6" of rain over a course of 3 days prior to that.

So I'm sure I'll kick up quite a dust bowel come next week!

Got an idea.

We have these sort of filters where I work that are used to filter the incoming air from the outside to the plant. The material appears to be made of fiberglass and it's oiled.

Same material used in my parts washer.



What if I made a "sock" to go over the paper filter instead of using the foam filter that wraps around the paper element? You would think the foam pre-filter would catch most of the dust but it does not.

I've actually made pre-filters for K&N conical filters on cars by wrapping that black porous filter media around the the filter taught, then applying some black RTV to the ends, sticking it in a bench vice overnight to cure then trimming off what had squeezed out, then turn it inside out and wrap it over the filter.

Here is one I made for my Yugo turbo:



Works great on cars but not sure if it would catch most of the crap on a lawnmower in a dust bowel.

Would using the white fiberglass instead of foam be too restrictive? I guess if the mower runs the same it would be OK? Can't be anymore restrictive than a solid foam filter.

That way I can make two and wash one out in kerosene and swap them out every other time I mow or get's really dirty?

The biggest issue with a restrictive filter would be the engine running richer which might not be too bad as the engines are air cooled and it might run a tad cooler. Anything to keep dust and dirt out of the engine.

Does your Yugo engine produce enough HP to run the turbo? Just had to ask. ;-)

Tom

Pumper54 said:

The biggest issue with a restrictive filter would be the engine running richer which might not be too bad as the engines are air cooled and it might run a tad cooler. Anything to keep dust and dirt out of the engine.

Does your Yugo engine produce enough HP to run the turbo? Just had to ask. ;-)

Tom

Click to expand...

I have not dynoed the Yugo but based on the math, the 1500 Fiat engine makes 75 BHP over the 1100 engine which makes 55 BHP. These are the same engines, only larger pistons and a longer stroke. Yugo never used the 1500cc engine, they stopped at the 1300cc engine. If you can imagine, going from a 1100 to a 1500 is like swapping a 305 for a 350 on a Chevy.

Then 7 lbs of boost equals 50% more power. So I'm estimating around 110 BHP. The turbo I used was a T25 from a 2.1 liter Saab 9000. It is not sized for a 1500 engine but seems to work great. It spools up much faster than the T3 I have on my Fiat Spider which came from a Volvo 240 of the same engine size.

Yes the car really moves! Torque steer is horrendous though! Since going to a 2.25" exhaust system, If I shift to 2nd gear and stomp it, it makes full boost and will spin the tire. If the car had limited slip, wider tires, it would transfer more power to the wheels. These cars were not meant to be hopped up. I've had to strengthen the chassis the handle to power. Homemade strut tower brace with a fourth engine mount, suspension braces, Addco rear swaybar.

The increase of power puts quite a strain on the steering and suspension being front wheel drive. Right now the car needs new wheel bearings and tie rods. I have not lost interest in the car but have been caught up with my Trabant and my new Citroen 2CV!

I think the wheel bearings were my fault because I pressed them in wrong.

Here is the evolution of the car:

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/turbofiat/library/Yugo?sort=6&page=1

Concerning air cleaners for my B&S engine.

I found a few that might work. The flange ID on the B&S filter is 1.5".

Here is one here for a Honda Ruckus:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191871067620?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Here is another one with a 1.5" ID that appears to be solid foam. I'm considering going with this one. I think it might offer the best filtration.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UNI-Sin...46658b1&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=191871067620

Here is a K&N filter with a 1.5" ID only more expensive:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110931353973?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

And a K&N "clone" but the ID is 1.25". I might be able to stretch it over the carburetor snout or hogg it out a bit with a dremel tool.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/302051833595?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I'm going to mow the yard today and see if any of these filters conflict with the engine. And to see if the snout of the carburetor would accept a clamp on filter. I may be able to remove the piece that the filters slides onto a bolts to the engine and angle the filter away from the engine.

Whenever I come up with something, I'll post some pics.

I bet you can have some fun with your Yugo, I bet it is one fine street sleeper as who really thinks that a Yugo has any power?

Tom

Pumper54 said:

I bet you can have some fun with your Yugo, I bet it is one fine street sleeper as who really thinks that a Yugo has any power?

Tom

Click to expand...

Yeah but since they are now building cars with 400+ HP, I've sort of given up on sleepers. My latest cars (Trabant 601 and Citroen 2CV) have less than 30HP!

I mowed the yard yesterday. After three weeks of no significant rainfall, I created quite a dust bowel.

I inspected the filter before I mowed but did not take any before photos but this filter has I think 6 hours on it. I can't remember if this is the one I washed in kerosene or not. I know it was not advised but I blew it out with compressed air.

I decided to order that oiled/washable foam air cleaner off Ebay for $17.

Got my foam air cleaner today and it fits perfect on a 21HP Intek Briggs engine:

This was before I oiled it by the way. Fits the 1.5" snout and no hacking on the engine cover to make it fit either!






If anyone is interested here is where I got it:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UNI-Sin...ash=item4aece67e9b:g:~4AAAOSw9N1VnGRN&vxp=mtr

Have you had a chance to mow with the filter on yet? Any issues that you could identify? Looks great there BTW, kinda "Hot rod-ish "

Tom

Not yet. I did crank it up and the mower runs fine. I have to mulch some leaves tomorrow. So I'll check to see how much dust the new filter catches.

turbofiat124 said:

Not yet. I did crank it up and the mower runs fine. I have to mulch some leaves tomorrow. So I'll check to see how much dust the new filter catches.

Click to expand...

I mulched some leaves the other day and the new filter seems to be catching allot of junk. So I'd recommend this filter!

I wished I had taken some photos but yesterday of my new foam filter. I mowed my yard for the first time in 2 months due to the drought so you can imagine the dust I stirred up. Mainly to mulch leaves and knock down some weeds. This time i had enough sense to wear a dust mask thank God.

Afterwards, the new foam air filter looked almost as bad as the one on a Snapper I once owned:



So it's catching quite the dust. Otherwise if this had been a paper filter, I would have had to replace it.

I gave it a dunk in my parts washer filled with kerosene and the dust fell right off. I had used K&N filter oil to oil the filter.

I've wondered if K&N filter oil is actually automatic transmission fluid thinned down because it's red. Maybe a poor assumption. I mixed up a jar of kerosene and automatic transmission fluid at a 50/50 ratio and gave the filter a dunk and let it drain off. This seemed to work quite well. I guess just about any kind of oil would work.

I thought about making my own filter for my backup 18.5 B&S Troy Bilt. That filer is flat. The company "UNI" that made the one on my 21HP Intek sells sheets:

http://www.unifilter.com/accessories/

But Hobby Lobby sells foam rubber sheets as well for a lot less.



I'm into restoring 8 track tapes and vintage audio and have made my own pressure pads out of this stuff.

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/turbofiat/library/vintage audio?sort=2&page=1

The current recommendation is to not oil the foam wrap that is on the cartridge type filters, because people have a tendency to over oil the foam, and then it gets absorbed into the paper and results is clogging. They are better off installed dry. the foam only type filters still need to be oiled to work properly.

ILENGINE said:

The current recommendation is to not oil the foam wrap that is on the cartridge type filters, because people have a tendency to over oil the foam, and then it gets absorbed into the paper and results is clogging. They are better off installed dry. the foam only type filters still need to be oiled to work properly.

Click to expand...

I have and have not oiled the foam wrap that goes over the paper filter but have noticed that dust still get's past it and penetrates the paper element.

That's why I wanted something entirely made of foam like before manufacturers started using paper elements. I guess to sell more parts. Swapping out a paper filter I guess is quicker, more convenient and not as messy as washing the foam element in kerosene or soapy water then soaking it in oil and squeezing the excess out. But nowhere near as messy as changing the oil and filter.

But at $17 a pop considering when mulching leaves, drought conditions or dead spots these clog up fairly quickly and I'd rather spend $17 on a case of Red Bulls than a new paper filter times 5 every mowing season.

The wrap is only there to collect the big bits, coarse dust & mowing debris.
The paper actually does the filtering.
A double wrap would probably do you fine and forget about the cover.
Rule of thumb is a filter is too dirty to use once you see discolouration on the inside.
I never oil a wrap.
On a foam only filter, like a sprint engine I dip my gloved finger in engine oil when wipe it over the top side ( engine side ) of the filter like honey on toast.
Gravity will pull it down about 1/2 the filter depth and that is all you need.
Could not count how many sprint engines I have serviced , running really rich with great dags of damp dust hanging off the air entry holes while the top of the filter looks like new

That's the problem with leaves, a lot of dust.
A K&N filter, a pre-cleaner, all these are good tips but I can't see getting away from the dust.

What is the part number on the filter you are using?

Way back at the beginning I seem to have recommended fitting a snorkel tube over the filter.
A Donaldson extreme dust filter would work really well being it is what demolition equipment is generally fitted with.
But for this purpose, a trig down to the 4WD wreckers ( breakers to some ) and a few $ for a snorkel tube off any 4WD would have done the job with the existing filter.
It is just a matter of breathing in where the air is cleaner.

I get the dust, we're not talking minor sediment stir...

I have a leaf vac and what it does is suck up the leaves, shred them and blows them into a bag... The dust, which is really particles of leaves and dirt, comes out through the bags fabric and when it does it's EVERYWHERE, because with an 8hp engine it blows a TON of air. There's no getting away from it unless you plan on running some 'snorkel' all the way into another part of the yard like to the other side of the house or a good 10 or 20 feet away from the machine or straight up in the air because the cloud of dust engulfs the whole machine. We're not wearing dust masks because the air is clean a few feet above ground, even with the mask I have to be careful breathing because in great quantities that amount of dust can actually kill you... The entire machine and my body is covered in filth after about an hour or two of using that thing, and I mean caked, the stuff literally falls off, it's thick and it will turn washing machine and shower water BLACK it's so bad.
That kind of dust, sandstorm quality dust, it will choke a brand new air filter in an hour if it takes that long.

Best I can recommend is start looking for a washable filter such as a K&N
Or... Look for a filter in bulk quantities, they might be cheaper that way.
Another solution would be start using Pre-cleaners, those I do wash, once dirty I throw them in the washing machine, then let air dry.

What I've done before but you have to be careful, is spray it off 'gently' with compressed air.
You have to be careful and I won't guarantee that it won't tear the fabric, problem is we can't always see minor rips and tears but I blow at it sideways and just try to get the bulk dirt off, also gently tapping and banging the filter against a hard surface can help get some of the worst off... But I wouldn't wash it, not a paper filter.

bertsmobile1 said:

Way back at the beginning I seem to have recommended fitting a snorkel tube over the filter.
A Donaldson extreme dust filter would work really well being it is what demolition equipment is generally fitted with.
But for this purpose, a trig down to the 4WD wreckers ( breakers to some ) and a few $ for a snorkel tube off any 4WD would have done the job with the existing filter.
It is just a matter of breathing in where the air is cleaner.

Click to expand...

I hear what your saying but the dust still blows in an 8 feet diameter from the mower. I'd need a snorkel 10 feet tall to get away from it.

sidemouse said:

That's the problem with leaves, a lot of dust.
A K&N filter, a pre-cleaner, all these are good tips but I can't see getting away from the dust.

What is the part number on the filter you are using?

Click to expand...

Here is the one that fits a 21HP B&S Intek. This filter sells for the same price as a replacement paper filter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-UNI-Sin...ce67e9b:g:~4AAAOSw9N1VnGRN&vxp=mtr&rmvSB=true



Unlike oil filters which seem to fit all B&S engines, for some reason air filters tend to be totally different between engine sizes. I have an 18.5 B&S that is rectangular. Dirty air enters from below, get's filters, makes a 90 then another 90 into the carburetor.





The one on my Honda self propelled motor uses a square type which I believe fits about all Honda engines throughout the years.

I picked up some of this foam rubber at Hobby Lobby the other day:



The goal is to cut the screen out with a Dremel tool and cut off saw, remove the paper element and use the rubber piece as a gasket and then cut some foam rubber down and use it as the filtering element on both the 18.5 B&S and the Honda engine.

The main question is how do you cut a 6" piece of foam rubber? I need to take off about 1/2" to make it 1.5" thick. I have seen upholstery shops use an electric meat carving knife. I don't know if I have one.

My idea was to soak it in water, stick it in a freezer and use a fillet knife or something. So it's hard enough to cut through. Sort of like cutting a corn beef brisket when it's cold verses hot before sticking it in the microwave.

Try cutting the foam with a very sharp knife before you stick in the freezer. Seems that would make it way harder to cut. Also draw out where you want it cut and see if a local upholstery shop will cut it for you.
Tom

Serrated bread knife is the only easy way. Place 2 1.5" boards on the sides of the foam. Lay knife on both pieces of wood and start cutting. Now comes the bad part. That foam will not breath enough to work. It is too dense. Test it to with mouth on foam lightly blow on it and see if you can feel your breath on the other side.

Electric carving knives, the ones with two blades working against each other like a hedge trimmer will work even better.
As for being too dense, probably correct but the poster is having fun with his conspiracy theories on over priced & ineffectual air filters so let him run with it.
Worst that can happen is the engine choke, the highly flamiable foam get saturated with fuel then the mower catch fire & burn.
But the important thing is it didn't do it with the overpriced $ 15 air filter in situ.

When I was jockying an emmission spectrograph, it sat in an airconditioned room , in an airconditioned room in an airconditioned bulding.
Now these were fairly standard widow models with a finer foam pre-filter th a paper filter . The principle reason was dust exclusion.
One bright spark decided we could use dressmaking foam sheeting to replace the very expensive duel filters.
And it worked a treat, in fact they were finer than the paper ones and we had significantly less dust in the spectro room, a big bonus for me as I used to have to clean it 4 times a shift.
Then during a time of high humidity they both froze destroying one of the air con units and ending up flucuating temperatures in the spec lab to the point the results could not be trusted so in place of a 3 minute emission analysis, we had to do a full wet analysis for the major elements and atomic adsorbtion for the impurities.
To do the latter we had to buy 9 new tubes at over $ 1000 each and then near 100 analytical grade certified volumetric flasks to make up the synthetic refference solutions and run an extra chemist till we could get the air con unit replaced which was no longer available so the building had to be altered to fit the new unit and then wired up 3 phase.
Several batches of alloy had to be recalled and reprocessed and then muggins here had to spend a full week working 12 hour shifts in the total dark while I realigned all of the photo tubes, all 278 of them, after which we had to buy in several dozen more certified standard samples so the machine could be recalibrated followed by a month of double shifts to clear the back log.

But OTOH we saved about $ 1000 on filters and the new units were genuine laboratory air con units with a coarse prefilter & electrostatic final filter which is what the General manager vetoed when the gear was first installed.

If it starts, which I doubt it will it, will be because it is bypassing the new filter completely.
You have a good point about the over priced air filtration on mowers. I have always thought all the manufactures of air filters are getting together in a scantily lit room fixing prices so the consumer has to pay way too much for them. My cost this mowing season for air filters was a whopping $48.00. Less than 1% of what I made mowing. It is just killing my profit margin. Some one needs to make a cheaper one that is for sure.

Filters are cheap until you buy trimmer filters and bp blower filters lol. My 3 z masters use the same filters . I may have spent 40 all year on them . I replaced filters in 1 bp blower and 2 trimmers last week that cost me 45 . Given the fact that was a whole season use no complaints. Think I'll try a new filter maybe one I can make myself and risk destroying a 10k$ mower or a 600$ blower lol. Not a chance!!!!!!

OK so you guys think I'm too cheap to replace a paper element?

Or I think there is some conspiracy theory about the price of replacement filters? I never said there was a conspiracy theory. Just the fact that they tend to clog up fairly rapidly when my yard is concerned. People who have well manicured lawns less than 1 acre who probably have water sprinklers may not have to replace an air filter that often as I do.

I've never heard of a poly foam filter catching fire. These were used on lawnmowers before paper elements were introduced. Why did they stop using them? Lawnmowers catching fire?

Thanks for the support guys!

bertsmobile1 said:

Electric carving knives, the ones with two blades working against each other like a hedge trimmer will work even better.
As for being too dense, probably correct but the poster is having fun with his conspiracy theories on over priced & ineffectual air filters so let him run with it.
Worst that can happen is the engine choke, the highly flamiable foam get saturated with fuel then the mower catch fire & burn.
But the important thing is it didn't do it with the overpriced $ 15 air filter in situ.

When I was jockying an emmission spectrograph, it sat in an airconditioned room , in an airconditioned room in an airconditioned bulding.
Now these were fairly standard widow models with a finer foam pre-filter th a paper filter . The principle reason was dust exclusion.
One bright spark decided we could use dressmaking foam sheeting to replace the very expensive duel filters.
And it worked a treat, in fact they were finer than the paper ones and we had significantly less dust in the spectro room, a big bonus for me as I used to have to clean it 4 times a shift.
Then during a time of high humidity they both froze destroying one of the air con units and ending up flucuating temperatures in the spec lab to the point the results could not be trusted so in place of a 3 minute emission analysis, we had to do a full wet analysis for the major elements and atomic adsorbtion for the impurities.
To do the latter we had to buy 9 new tubes at over $ 1000 each and then near 100 analytical grade certified volumetric flasks to make up the synthetic refference solutions and run an extra chemist till we could get the air con unit replaced which was no longer available so the building had to be altered to fit the new unit and then wired up 3 phase.
Several batches of alloy had to be recalled and reprocessed and then muggins here had to spend a full week working 12 hour shifts in the total dark while I realigned all of the photo tubes, all 278 of them, after which we had to buy in several dozen more certified standard samples so the machine could be recalibrated followed by a month of double shifts to clear the back log.

But OTOH we saved about $ 1000 on filters and the new units were genuine laboratory air con units with a coarse prefilter & electrostatic final filter which is what the General manager vetoed when the gear was first installed.

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A few years ago I tried one of those 3M Filtrete heatpump filters. Thinking it might help control some of the dust in our house.

Within a couple of days I noticed air was not blowing from the vents. I went down to the unit and as I suspected, the filter was blinding over with ice which always seems to happen if I forget to change the filter at the first of the month. I turned the A/C off and let the unit thaw out and replaced it with one of those thin fiberglass filters. 3M makes good products but their Filtrete filters are way too restrictive.

An AC repair man told me those are actually the best filters to use. Anything thicker causes stress on the blower unit.

One day I found a bunch of these at Ben Franklin's for about 50 cents a piece and bought a year's supply worth. The reason I bought so many was this heatpump takes an odd sized filter that nobody seems to stock. I usually have to buy a slightly larger filter and break the corners down so it fits and no air bypasses around it.

One day I was at Lowes and was looking for a filter in the size I needed. They did not sell any. So I tried one of these:



Same thing happened. No air coming from the vents. Filter blinded over with ice.

turbofiat124 said:

OK so you guys think I'm too cheap to replace a paper element?

Or I think there is some conspiracy theory about the price of replacement filters? I never said there was a conspiracy theory. Just the fact that they tend to clog up fairly rapidly when my yard is concerned. People who have well manicured lawns less than 1 acre who probably have water sprinklers may not have to replace an air filter that often as I do.

I've never heard of a poly foam filter catching fire. These were used on lawnmowers before paper elements were introduced. Why did they stop using them? Lawnmowers catching fire?

Thanks for the support guys!

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1. No I think you are trying to find a way to save a few dollars on your yard mowing. This Started out kind of ok but still had elements of disaster. Cleaning a paper filter with a flammable liquid seens a bit drastic and expensive as well. It did not seem to be effective or safe from git go but I figured you would figure it out for yourself.

2. No manicured lawns here. Filthy dusty crap to mow all year long. I clean and replace the outer poly filter lots. Inner filter as needed. That is around 5 times a year.

3. What you are wanting to use is not the same as what engine manufactures use. This is why I chimmed in.

4. I will more than be happy to support you all the way when you get to a place that looks like it will work. Until then I will warn of potential problems so you can avoid disaster.


In the final thought. I have no malice in my heart. I only speak up when I think it needs to be said. The foam you are dealing with is designed to be used for your bottom not for cleaning moving air. What you are doing is how people come up with wonderful inventions so do not stop. As most successful people say. The difference between one who succeeds and fails is you do not give up.

Skid steers, power brooms and the similar used in construction use Donaldson filters.
They have 2 fabric elements that are dry cleanable .
No idea about the US but a friends demolition company used to buy the filters by the box load , change the outers daily then get me to drop them off for cleaning.
This is a low pressure pulse cycle followed by a low pressure spray from the inside out with dry cleaning fluid.
Apparently you can do it 12 to 20 times depending upon how good the filter was in the first place.
Two of his excavators were fitted with snorkels that breathe from the top of the cab and their filters went about a month.
While you get dust quite high you will be amazed at how little gets sucked down a suitable snorkel.
The other option is a wet filter or a separate cyclone prefilter with dust bag,
A smaller version of what you see hanging off a sawmill.

BlazNT said:

1. No I think you are trying to find a way to save a few dollars on your yard mowing. This Started out kind of ok but still had elements of disaster. Cleaning a paper filter with a flammable liquid seens a bit drastic and expensive as well. It did not seem to be effective or safe from git go but I figured you would figure it out for yourself.

2. No manicured lawns here. Filthy dusty crap to mow all year long. I clean and replace the outer poly filter lots. Inner filter as needed. That is around 5 times a year.

3. What you are wanting to use is not the same as what engine manufactures use. This is why I chimmed in.

4. I will more than be happy to support you all the way when you get to a place that looks like it will work. Until then I will warn of potential problems so you can avoid disaster.


In the final thought. I have no malice in my heart. I only speak up when I think it needs to be said. The foam you are dealing with is designed to be used for your bottom not for cleaning moving air. What you are doing is how people come up with wonderful inventions so do not stop. As most successful people say. The difference between one who succeeds and fails is you do not give up.

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OK maybe I took your post wrong. My initial post should have been titled "Alternatives to paper air filters".

You did mention those foam filters worked great on dirt bikes so I was wondering what you had against them. Or is seemed like I was being cheap by blowing paper filters off with compressed air or trying to wash them in something. As far as washing the paper filter in kerosene, I only did this one time and allowed it to dry until the next time I mowed (like two weeks). But yeah, I figured these type of filters were throw-away. I just wanted to look into something besides paper filters that I could clean and reuse. I don't care to get my hand's dirty.

My guess would be the reason they don't use this type of filter anymore is because it's quick and you don't get your hands dirty. As if changing the oil is not going to get your hands dirty!



All you had to say was, "maybe look into the same material your UNI filter is made of and buy sheets of it you could trim out instead of using something from a crafts store, that it was the wrong material for the wrong application" and I would have understood. No I did not think about the foam rubber I was going to use as being too restrictive.

I did visit UNI filters' website and they do sell sheets of the same material the filter material I can cut down.

http://www.unifilter.com/accessories/


My father's yard is in much better condition than mine. Last time I changed the oil in his mower, I looked at the air filter and it was barely dirty and not worth changing as of yet. Yet he mows more often than I do. Like twice a week compared to me where I mow every 2 weeks and both of our yards are about the same size. I just happen to have "natural native" and azolla grass that doesn't grow as rapidly and he has some genetically engineered grass he fertilizes.

Concerning these paper filters. Yes they are over priced to be honest. Why a B&S air filter no bigger than it is sells for the same price as some automotive air filters. Just like a "Genuine" B&S oil filter sells for twice as much as a WIX or Bosch oil filter for an car.

I just recently did some maintenance items on my 1998 Chevy Van. New transmission filter, fuel filter and air filter.

The air filter had about 10,000 to 15,000 miles on it. It wasn't too dirty but I replaced it anyway. Yet I was not having any performance or fuel economy issues. I think I paid around $20 for it. If I cut down this filter into the size of an 18.5 hp B&S filter, I could make about 8 of them.

I know I've posted this photo before but as you can tell this filter should have been replaced a long time ago but the engine never seemed to have starved for air. How it was breathing is the question.



So am I replacing filters before they actually need to be replaced? If the engine is still running fine and the filter looks dirty does it really need to be replaced or cleaned? Maybe replace the filter every time I change the oil regardless of what it looks like?

My plan is to do some mulching tomorrow or Saturday and as dry as it's been, I know I'll kick up a dust cloud. I will post a photo of what my UNI filter looks like after I'm done.

Sorry if I took offense to your post.

The price has nothing to do with the size of the filter.
It is all about how many are made , how fast they sell and what else is in the logistics chain.
Down here for instance Deer parts are the cheapest mower parts by a long way.
Original Deere part retail for about 15 to 25% more than I can buy pattern parts wholesale.
This is because Deere have a warehouse in every state full of farm equipment, and in one tiny corner near the dunnies is a couple of racks of mower parts.
The same storeman that picks the $ 2000 headder part also picks the $ 5 mower part & they travel on the same trucks.
So when I order something it is picked on the day shift and sent 50km to the local delivery center then another 65 km to me.

MTD have a stand alone warehouse only in Melbourne so my parts have to go overnight 1400 km to a regional despatch center then to my shop.
Thus the entire cost of running the warehouse is bourn by the mowers & mower parts.
MTD original parts retail for 6 times the wholesale price of the aftermarket parts.
Belts I buy from Stens for $ 35 retail at the MD shop for $ 140.

In the case of air filters, shipping would be almost the same cost as the actual manufacture

turbofiat124 said:

Sorry if I took offense to your post.

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I am a matter of fact type of person. I have given the wrong impression a few times. It is a problem I have. I corrected what I wrote 3 times before I posted because my wife read it and asked if I was mad at you. I said no why and she pointed out a few things. I reread and figured she was right. I corrected and then thought it was ok to post. I guess I did not correct enough. I try but can not always "clean" up what I type. So do not worry about reading my post as offensive.

Now on too your filter issue. If I was you I would clean the pre filter after every mow. It will make the filter last a lot longer. I test my filters by dropping them to the concrete and if lots of stuff comes out then replace time. I do remove the prefilter before I do the drop test. I buy my filters on line and normally what I need for the year. Much cheaper that way. I spend about $8.00 each. That is filter and prefilter. I also buy extra prefilters. Normally 2 to 1. So 8 filters with prefilters and 8 extra prefilters. I buy oil filters the same way.

BlazNT said:

I am a matter of fact type of person. I have given the wrong impression a few times. It is a problem I have. I corrected what I wrote 3 times before I posted because my wife read it and asked if I was mad at you. I said no why and she pointed out a few things. I reread and figured she was right. I corrected and then thought it was ok to post. I guess I did not correct enough. I try but can not always "clean" up what I type. So do not worry about reading my post as offensive.

Now on too your filter issue. If I was you I would clean the pre filter after every mow. It will make the filter last a lot longer. I test my filters by dropping them to the concrete and if lots of stuff comes out then replace time. I do remove the prefilter before I do the drop test. I buy my filters on line and normally what I need for the year. Much cheaper that way. I spend about $8.00 each. That is filter and prefilter. I also buy extra prefilters. Normally 2 to 1. So 8 filters with prefilters and 8 extra prefilters. I buy oil filters the same way.

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Things always sound worse on the internet!

I could probably buy these air filters in bulk compared to one at a time. I found a good deal on some Rapture oil filters for B&S engines, 3 for $12 with free shipping instead of the usual $9 a pop+ tax from Lowes.

I think the consensus was it's not recommended to blow out a paper filter with compressed air. Or soaking the foam pre-filter with oil because it can contaminate the paper element.

I had been blowing the paper off with compressed air (inside and out) and washing the foam filter (un-oiled) with water for ages and never really seemed to have an issue. I've never blinded over an air filter to the point the engine would not run. So maybe when I look at the air filter, and it looks dirty but the engine runs just fine, it could go longer without being changed?

One day my co-worker barely made it into work. He had this old beat up 1976 Ford F-150 with the "Big 6" engine. Someone had installed one of those small 4" Mr. Gasket air cleaners on the carburetor!

He pulled it into the maintenance shop and starting looking around. He pulls the plugs and they were carbon fouled. He asked me if I would drive him to an auto part store for new plugs and I said, "Stick them in that bead blast cabinet and clean them up". While he was doing that I pulled the air cleaner and held it up to the light and could not see through it!

With the air filter removed, the engine idled smooth.