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I have a 6.5 hp B&S Vanguard (13L332-0036-F8) to power a Cyclone Rake I recently acquired. PO left ethanol in tank until it gelled/congealed. I pulled and cleaned the tank, replaced fuel line, pulled and cleaned carb thoroughly and now it will start with fuel valve open and choke on but only runs for a couple of seconds then dies. If I throttle it back to slow, it will run and gov will search a couple of times, then it dies. I'm thinking governor out of adjustment or maybe faulty spark switch...doubt its fuel, fuel line or carb at this point. It will run with carb cleaner, but I hate engine torture so I don't do that more than necessary. Are these V engines problematic or am I overlooking something in my ignorance of them? Another weird thing...if the air cleaner is off it won't start as above...with air cleaner completely on it runs for a couple of seconds than dies. Thanks in advance.

If you brought it in to me and told me what you posted, I would start by cleaning the carb again and rebuilding it with a new kit. It sounds to me like the carb is either still plugged or the float is not set correctly, resulting in a lean running condition. Not the first time I’ve seen this problem.

For the $4 difference between the cost of the repair kit and a complete carb, I would replace the carb.

Thanks IL, never looked up the prices, which I should have before I posted.

Thanks, that's the rub...waste more time/money on the cheap carb that's on there, or spend a like amount to replace with another cheap carb. Only to face a similar problem down the road? Who knows? Is there a better decent quality carb that will retrofit to this engine? Something with a real float needle? It's a wonderful Nikki.

timster said:

Thanks, that's the rub...waste more time/money on the cheap carb that's on there, or spend a like amount to replace with another cheap carb. Only to face a similar problem down the road? Who knows? Is there a better decent quality carb that will retrofit to this engine? Something with a real float needle? It's a wonderful Nikki.

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Just take the original apart and CLEAN IT. That's a good carb and not a knock off....

It's running super lean and something is still clogged.

Carb cleaner to keep it running verifies that. If you have access to an Ultra Sonic Cleaner use it.

We're assuming fuel IS FLOWING from the fuel line when off the carb, valve turn ON(if equipped), correct?

Okay, I'll have a 3rd go at it. I put a new float and needle in it, some gaskets, etc. from the pricey carb kit and found the main jet clogged down in the bowl. Cleared that and all other passages with carb cleaner and compressed air...so where is the other end of the main jet? Somewhere at the top of the tube that the float fits over?
Yes, fuel flow is good and clean. The bowl drain confirms that one.
No sonic cleaner available. If a 3rd clean fails to do the job...it gets heaved into the lake and replaced. If that fails, the engine gets heaved into the lake and replaced.

As stated Nikki makes a good carb, plus a doubt you can find a different carb for that engine.

timster said:

Okay, I'll have a 3rd go at it. I put a new float and needle in it, some gaskets, etc. from the pricey carb kit and found the main jet clogged down in the bowl. Cleared that and all other passages with carb cleaner and compressed air...so where is the other end of the main jet? Somewhere at the top of the tube that the float fits over?
Yes, fuel flow is good and clean. The bowl drain confirms that one.
No sonic cleaner available. If a 3rd clean fails to do the job...it gets heaved into the lake and replaced. If that fails, the engine gets heaved into the lake and replaced.

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The hole in the main jet (bowl) is usually what clogs...

ANYWHERE there's an orifice, spray carb cleaner or brake cleaner into it and make sure it COMES OUT SOME WHERE. If it doesn't, you've found a clog.

Usually spraying up where the main jet goes, cleaner will come out the bottom of the venture.

Here's a link for your carberator: https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...arburetor-carburetor-overhaul-kit-fuel-supply


Part #958 is apparently your built in fuel filter. If the carb is spotless, I'd be looking real hard at that filter assembly:

timster said:

Okay, I'll have a 3rd go at it. I put a new float and needle in it, some gaskets, etc. from the pricey carb kit and found the main jet clogged down in the bowl. Cleared that and all other passages with carb cleaner and compressed air...so where is the other end of the main jet? Somewhere at the top of the tube that the float fits over?
Yes, fuel flow is good and clean. The bowl drain confirms that one.
No sonic cleaner available. If a 3rd clean fails to do the job...it gets heaved into the lake and replaced. If that fails, the engine gets heaved into the lake and replaced.

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Here's a link for your carb... #117 is your main jet.... Yes those kits are pricey. A new carb for only a few bucks more....

Please don't throw the engine in the lake... LOL.... If you are serious about that I'll pay for it to be shipped to me ...... I can clean that carb up and get that engine running in a short time ............

Plus Tard Mon Ami ~!~!

www.jackssmallengines.com/jacks-par...arburetor-carburetor-overhaul-kit-fuel-supply

Thanks for the encouragement...no experience with Vanguards so this is a new and more complicated than it needs to be beastie for me. 117 is what I found plugged on #2 carb cleaning...now open/clean. I've also gone through the fuel filter/valve and it is working...free flow of clean gas gets to the carb and drains from the bowl. I'll check the venturi and redouble efforts to clean every orifice I can find and blow it out again with compressed air.
Is there a telltale sign I can check to make sure the governor is set correctly? It lives under the fuel tank. You have to pull the blower/impeller from the crankshaft, unbolt the engine from it's stand and blower housing and move it sideways to get the fuel tank off (1 awkward bolt, no access) so you can see the governor linkage/setup. I've done that once already, but didn't notice anything bent or unhooked in the linkage. Just assumed it was probably correct given the difficulty of getting to it.
The big unknown with this engine/equipment is the husband of the PO...dumb enough to let a tank of gas evaporate into goo/gel, but smart enough to know what a wrench is and possibly use it before fiddling around. Lazy factor unknown...

timster said:

Thanks for the encouragement...no experience with Vanguards so this is a new and more complicated than it needs to be beastie for me. 117 is what I found plugged on #2 carb cleaning...now open/clean. I've also gone through the fuel filter/valve and it is working...free flow of clean gas gets to the carb and drains from the bowl. I'll check the venturi and redouble efforts to clean every orifice I can find and blow it out again with compressed air.
Is there a telltale sign I can check to make sure the governor is set correctly? It lives under the fuel tank. You have to pull the blower/impeller from the crankshaft, unbolt the engine from it's stand and blower housing and move it sideways to get the fuel tank off (1 awkward bolt, no access) so you can see the governor linkage/setup. I've done that once already, but didn't notice anything bent or unhooked in the linkage. Just assumed it was probably correct given the difficulty of getting to it.
The big unknown with this engine/equipment is the husband of the PO...dumb enough to let a tank of gas evaporate into goo/gel, but smart enough to know what a wrench is and possibly use it before fiddling around. Lazy factor unknown...

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The clogged jet will cause your issue.

With that clean, I would start the engine and see how it runs.

*I would NOT mess with the governor un-less you have other issues.

Some governors can be a PIA to adjust, I wouldn't open that can of worms un-less you have to. \

Very likely, (their usually hidden / hard ti get to), the PO didn't mess with it..

Hmmm...I'll check the main jet again then. After the first cursory cleaning with only carb cleaner, it wouldn't start at all despite clean tank and fresh fuel. New fuel line and 2nd cleaning with compressed air and carb cleaner followed...when the main jet clog was solved. After that it will start but die immediately with air cleaner on and throttle on FAST. With throttle on SLOW, it will run a second or two longer and the governor hunts back and forth. I'm hoping this is all due to gelled ethanol in the tank, I hate the slow process of discovering all the PO's adjustments/tweaks/alterations.

timster said:

Hmmm...I'll check the main jet again then. After the first cursory cleaning with only carb cleaner, it wouldn't start at all despite clean tank and fresh fuel. New fuel line and 2nd cleaning with compressed air and carb cleaner followed...when the main jet clog was solved. After that it will start but die immediately with air cleaner on and throttle on FAST. With throttle on SLOW, it will run a second or two longer and the governor hunts back and forth. I'm hoping this is all due to gelled ethanol in the tank, I hate the slow process of discovering all the PO's adjustments/tweaks/alterations.

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I thought(post above this one), that you found crap in the main jet and cleaned it.

In any event, make sure the tank is spotless, if an in-tank fuel filter-it's clean.

That main jet MAY have two small holes going SIDEWAYS THRU IT. If so, make sure you can see light thru it.

Seems now your getting a little fuel to the engine, but the main (and it's orifices) have to be clear for full power/RPMs.


I gather you are getting fuel to the bowl (if you loosen the bowl bolt, fuel comes out)?

It is getting fuel...fresh, clean gas from the bowl drain when openend. Don't remember seeing side orifices on the main jet...just one small one that was clogged, now open.

If no progress or your going in again, check that jet for a very small hole going sideways thru it.

On current B&S engines, almost all of them have it.

I'm not sure about yours but it can be easily missed..

Got it running. Pulled bowl, pulled main jet & it was clean/open. Note for others: only one orifice on this main jet and it mates to a similar orifice in a secondary Venturi tube that adjoins the main riser tube surrounded by the float. Blew out all the holes with carb cleaner...including the main jet after I checked and reinstalled it. Put it back together and it started without air cleaner and with air cleaner. Also ran with and without the tank cap so that rules out the tank vent being clogged. Idles good and throttles up and down smooth so governor must be good. FAST didn’t sound like 3600 rpm but it is a quiet engine...muffler looks pretty complex. Thanks for the help, advice and encouragement.

Congrates!

Seems this cleaning did it. Apparently the orifice going upwards from the main was the issue.

They do sell cheap tachometers that clip over the spark plug wire(s) to check RPM's.

This is what I use and on most engines I encounter, the RPMs are set way too low:



Besides helping to adjust the high RPMs on a mower engine, helps a bunch adjusting two stroke engine carbs.

Broke down an ordered a Chinese wonder digital photo small engine tach this morning off the auction site. Can't go wrong for the price as long as I don't drop it...No Dropse, No Dropse!
From what I read the Vanguard 6.5 has a fixed rpm...tops out at 3800. If it's anywhere near that I'll use it as is on the Cyclone Rake. If not, lessons on over-riding the governor begin.
Thanks again.

timster said:

Broke down an ordered a Chinese wonder digital photo small engine tach this morning off the auction site. Can't go wrong for the price as long as I don't drop it...No Dropse, No Dropse!
From what I read the Vanguard 6.5 has a fixed rpm...tops out at 3800. If it's anywhere near that I'll use it as is on the Cyclone Rake. If not, lessons on over-riding the governor begin.
Thanks again.

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Might want to double check the top end RPMs. Call Briggs directly.

Almost every 4 stroke I've encountered, lawn mower type engine top speed is 3,600. (This is NOT counting 4 stroke blowers, etc.)

I'd bet your actual RPMs right now is under 3,000 from your description. Cranking it up to 3,600 makes a BIG DIFFERENCE..

Per Briggs (I called awhile ago), they stated the RPM's to be approx. 200 RPM's lower to lower the "BLADE SPEED" (safety reasons) for my 7HP Intek. It's set at just shy of 3,600 NOW.

I would not be setting the governor to run more than that or you'll shorten the life of the engine...Torque and HP goes down past that RPM...

Most of the newer engines, the governor adjustment is much simpler with just a simple spring. They'll be a tab the spring attaches to (with the governor/throttle plate). Bending that tab so the spring is TIGHTER, raises the RPM's. **I do NOT know if this is the case for your particular engine but very likely is...

Plz post back what your actual RPMs are and adjustment.

SRTsFZ6 said:

Might want to double check the top end RPMs. Call Briggs directly.

Almost every 4 stroke I've encountered, lawn mower type engine top speed is 3,600. (This is NOT counting 4 stroke blowers, etc.)

I'd bet your actual RPMs right now is under 3,000 from your description. Cranking it up to 3,600 makes a BIG DIFFERENCE..

Per Briggs (I called awhile ago), they stated the RPM's to be approx. 200 RPM's lower to lower the "BLADE SPEED" (safety reasons) for my 7HP Intek. It's set at just shy of 3,600 NOW.

I would not be setting the governor to run more than that or you'll shorten the life of the engine...Torque and HP goes down past that RPM...

Most of the newer engines, the governor adjustment is much simpler with just a simple spring. They'll be a tab the spring attaches to (with the governor/throttle plate). Bending that tab so the spring is TIGHTER, raises the RPM's. **I do NOT know if this is the case for your particular engine but very likely is...

Plz post back what your actual RPMs are and adjustment.

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I agree with SRT on the rates of speed....... Lawn mowers are different cause of blade tip speed... 32 to 3600 RPM's

Leaf blowers and cyclones like yours hold a lil more than a mower....... Log splitters and such are rated different.... You can google a PDF sheet on the different engines and applications.... Briggs will only give you computer generated answer in the chat section.........Then tell you to contact a dealer.....

I would stick with the RPM's that's recommended to make your engine last longer..... Those Vanguards are pricey.....

I'll see what I can find for you .....

Re RPM's, from B&S:

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...ualSearch.html?searchrequested=13L332-0036-F8

Click on the "operators manual", page 11 for the below info:



3,600RPM's max for YOUR engine.

Your specific engines owners manual and parts manual are both at that link...


Page 20 in the PARTS book also shows your governor spring. As stated earlier, it's adjusted by bending a tab that holds the spring.

SRTsFZ6 said:

Re RPM's, from B&S:

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/n...ualSearch.html?searchrequested=13L332-0036-F8

Click on the "operators manual", page 11 for the below info:



3,600RPM's max for YOUR engine.

Your specific engines owners manual and parts manual are both at that link...


Page 20 in the PARTS book also shows your governor spring. As stated earlier, it's adjusted by bending a tab that holds the spring.

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Yes again.........3600 RPM's which is higher than a mower engine. Like I said before it depends on the length of the blade and you don't have one....... You have a impeller.......

I looked in my Briggs Power Portal and you have a service engine..... I think this engine wasn't original to your cyclone rake unless they bought a few thousand service engines to install on their leaf collectors.....

Can you find out from the guy you bought it from if he replaced the engine ????

According to their (Cyclones) website they use Vanguard engines:

https://www.cyclonerake.com/

I suspect it's the original engine..

Well the PO is the genius who let ethanol gel in the tank. The Vanguard engine is OEM. Can't check rpms until my new Asian toy arrives, but I'll post back with results. On the up side, it cranked over first pull this evening after work and ran strong. I'm glad it has a bowl drain, and that the fuel filter also has a removable bowl...makes keeping the carb empty and clean in the off season much easier. Here's the toy the Vanguard powers...sorry, don't have a shot of the engine side. The engine/crankshaft spins a large plastic impeller in the blower/fan housing and pulls debris/grass/leaves from the deck discharge chute through the tube to the impeller, which shoots it up the green upright chute into a heavy-canvas, vented container on wheels...the whole thing tilts back to dump the load when the container gets full. A necessary evil when age/shoulder surgeries, etc., make it impossible to use a rake and fire to clean an ocean of leaves from your place in the fall/winter. Thanks again.

Nice set up! Even better now that it works!!

Haven't raked a leave (fall/winter) since 1979.

You can have em!!!

I found out thru Briggs that Cyclone bought the V-Guard engines for those...... Didn't have a chance to post the info though.... I am in the process of making a Crawfish A-2-Fay cooking video.......

Gotta eat LOL...............

Plus tard ............

Well, my el cheapo Asian toy arrived and it actually works. Tested the Vanguard 6.5 hp today and it's running about 3480 rpm at WOT, and the engine is rated at 3600 rpm. Close enough for biscuits I guess...there could be that much variation in calibration of the Asian toy at the factory, or the cyclone rake folks might set the engines to run just under 3600 rpm, or it could have been that I took the reading on the rake impeller right next to the crankshaft and not on the end of the crankshaft itself. Now we'll see if the Vanguard lasts over time.

timster said:

Well, my el cheapo Asian toy arrived and it actually works. Tested the Vanguard 6.5 hp today and it's running about 3480 rpm at WOT, and the engine is rated at 3600 rpm. Close enough for biscuits I guess...there could be that much variation in calibration of the Asian toy at the factory, or the cyclone rake folks might set the engines to run just under 3600 rpm, or it could have been that I took the reading on the rake impeller right next to the crankshaft and not on the end of the crankshaft itself. Now we'll see if the Vanguard lasts over time.

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Yep, that's pretty close, better under than over revved.

BTW, put your new tool right on the spark plug cap for the most accurate reading. It's reading the spark and calculating the RPM's from that..

You'll find yourself fine tuning other machines for the correct RPM's, VERY, VERY handy!!

(Used mine today!)

My old tiny tach used the plug wire. The new toy uses a laser and reflective tape...a $10 maarvel.

timster said:

My old tiny tach used the plug wire. The new toy uses a laser and reflective tape...a $10 maarvel.

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Interesting! Never heard of that.

The only downside is on a machine where both ends of the crank are covered(pull starter and say a 2 stroke cutting ((clutch)) shaft)..

The lasers & tape type are used by wood turners & machinists to check lathe speeds.
They used to be a common part of sound recordists kits as well the ensure tape speeds were correct.

Yeah, can't beat it for what it really is...a cheap reliable enough way to check rpms in some circumstances/equipment. Cheap plastic laser pointer about the size of a pack of cigarettes, with digital read-out/scale, and memory recall function. Runs off a 9V battery, like a smoke-detector. Should last a few years in my special tools toolbox, unless I forget and leave the battery in it, or drop it on concrete. Doesn't appear to be very robust/durable, but it'll do. Can't post a pic for some reason, search the auction site for digital photo tachometer and look for the Hecho En China products.

I'm a "tool-a-holic" and prefer to buy (fortunate enough to), the best tools I can.

Whether it be a mano-meter, lazer heat temp gun, portable tach, welder, etc.

If used enough, they pay for themselves, many times over.



I just adjusted the exhaust valves (shim and bucket) last week end on my 4 cyl, 4 valves/cylinder, dual OHV motorcycle. First pic is that of the exhaust cam removed, ready to pull "buckets and shims" for new shims.

Second pic is that of a manometer (at idle) after a slight adjustment( Yamaha spec's allow for 10mms-the large line), which I'm well within 2mm's. That job would have cost over $600 and you wouldn't know for certain IF it was even done! Two exhaust valves were tight by .001"

W/O the proper (and good tools), I could NOT have done the job, period. That one job paid for every tool I used for that one job..

Sweet. I spend whatever is necessary to enable me to maintain my equipment according to my skills, beyond that I hire it out to guys like you.:laughing:

SRTsFZ6 said:

Interesting! Never heard of that.

The only downside is on a machine where both ends of the crank are covered(pull starter and say a 2 stroke cutting ((clutch)) shaft)..

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I have a You tube buddy that uses that type of TACH for mowers... He puts a piece of the tape on the blade and shoots it with the laser ....

It is an older one though..... I'll try and find a vid for you ...................

Here ya go Scott I found he made ........ Enjoy ...............

https://youtu.be/gTsLVdbErhg

timster said:

Sweet. I spend whatever is necessary to enable me to maintain my equipment according to my skills, beyond that I hire it out to guys like you.:laughing:

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I have a Tree Service company that I now do all his machines. Heck, he has me working on his Vermeer Stump grinders, the large trailer, tree / stump shredders and all his chain saws, blowers, back pack blowers, pole saws (high end stuff-Echo's, Stihls, Red Max, etc).

I currently have an extending Echo pole saw PPT266 (branch came down wrong and snapped the extending pole, Echo weed wacker, waiting on a clutch brake for a CS 355 and waiting on a carb gasket for an OLD 11 HP, 5,000 watt, Briggs generator. Got it running but the top main gasket is leaking, flooding the engine after it's turned off...

Actually, before I met him (after Hurricane Irma hit down here, I hired him, lost an entire seawall), I had no experience with the Echo's and Stihls (or Vermeers). As posted above, You Tube is usually a BIG HELP. TARYL, even more (LOL).. I have no manuals for anything, just mostly use Jacks Parts diagrams and the ole noggin..


Neat tach too, never saw that before...Thanks..

BTW, if you didn't catch it in that video, the spring was attached in the wrong place. He doesn't show him moving it.. It should be attached to that slightly "upper arm" with the hole in it.. That's how you'd adjust the RPM's, bending that arm... A zip tie doesn't belong there..

I think you will find the name is TARYL

bertsmobile1 said:

I think you will find the name is TARYL

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Fixed!

Hello all,

First time post, I was browsing the forum on getting some help on a
Brand:Briggs & Stratton
Model:13L332/0117-F8
Vanguard Power Rake
After confirming spark and that the fuel line was getting fuel to the cut off, I was starting to be at a loss. If I put fuel down the carb it would fire up briefly then throttle up then die.

I did some cleaning and blowing out of the carb, removed the bowl etc... I was about to just buy a new carb and took one more stab at it. In not sure what this is called but it's at the bottom of the cut off valve clear so you can see fuel (there was always fuel showing but it wasn't getting to the bowl of the carb. I removed it and there is a very fine metal mesh screen that covers the return path for the fuel. Cleaned it up and I'm up and running. I just wanted to thank everyone and give a little back. Picture attached of what removed and cleaned.

That is the sediment bowl with included screen filter. The water and heavy stuff goes to the bottom and the finer stuff gets caught in the screen.