Tufftorq vs. Hydro-gear (again) - My convo with Tufftorq - comments?

[zadok]

Yeah so I'm looking for a 20 year machine on a budget! I'm moving to a home with roughly 3/4 acre, mostly flat, with lots of landscaping. So... the inevitable quest of how to take care of it I may need to use my push mower for some trimming. I have a commercial weed whacker, so am GTG there.

The current home owner has some rendition of a "LT big box John Deere." This prompted me to look at JD's "E" series, thinking I don't need a whole lot, no towing, no hills, etc. But those come with a TL-200 tranny. So I emailed TuffTorq asking the inevitable question: "What is the MTBF / life expectancy" I could get from this?

Answer: "If you change the oil every 150-200 hours, you should be fine." Change oil? Like disassemble it?... I'd more let it fail and replace it first... Ethically, it bugs me to spend $2k on something that may only last 150-200 hours. I sold my Broadmoor with K-57, and 240 hours of heavy use, no issues. But a TL-200? Maybe it's fine on the flats, with a 42", and no towing. But I don't like taking risks. Seems like a lot of residential builds are looking at 150 hours. In other conversations I've had with manufacturers, then stop testing at 150 hours. But of course, that may have little bearing on life expectancy under light use and good care.

Thus, am considering something like a Hustler Raptor, 42". Has ZT-2200s. IMO the 1" axle makes me happier. If I really did it, I'd get 2800s - I know. But the Raptor would cut this in 20 minutes giving me less than 20 hours / year on the thing.

I don't know what you guys think of those big box JDs with their low-end hydro. Bang for the buck I suppose.

 

[ILENGINE]

The statistical average for a riding mower is they are replaced every 4.5 years with an average if 138 hours of use,

 

[zadok]

Great. i got 240 hours and 11 years from my Broadmoor. 2 drive belts. Welded the tranny to frame mounts. Original mower belts. I babied it. Always started PTO at engine idle.

After reading horrible reviews on the cheap JD, I'm not buying one.

 

[bertsmobile1]

It is called the "free market economy" ,
If people will only pay for junk then junk is what they will get .
I currently have 3 Greenfields in fo repairs
They have 692, 2734 & 1393 hours on them and will run for 4 to 5 times those hours and should be good for another 15 to 20 years .
Greenfield are 30% to 50% dearer than the junk that is imported . Greenfields went bankrupt 2 years ago but Husqvarna had a record year .

 

[tom3]

I don't think the zt-2200 hydros are serviceable? Probably still last you a long time with your useage.

 

[Darryl G]

For a flat property with a lawn that size you'll probably be fine with the 2200 EZT. Heat is the big killer of hydro transmissions and you're not going to be running it for long intervals on a lawn that size. But if you're going to be hauling heavy loads in a cart, you weight 400 pounds or you'll be towing rear implements such as an aerator you'd probably want to step up to the 2800.

 

[cruzenmike]

One thing to consider regarding mower transmissions, is that only a rider type (with steering wheel) rated as having a "ground engaging" transmission should be used for towing any heavy loads. Yes, many have towed with K46's and alike without fail, but add the slightest grade or overloaded cart and the work that the transmission must do increases exponentially causing excessive heat and premature transmission failure. I have seen mowers with the K58 rated as ground engaging but I wouldn't settle for anything less than a K62 with steel cut gears or a K66 if I had a worry about what I was doing with it. As for ZTR's, the transmissions in these ONLY get better as the weight of the machine increases or he need for speed is there. The reason why a machine may have 2800s and not 2200s is that the cutting performance can support faster speeds while mowing or because that machine is significantly heavier than one utilizing a lesser transmission, BUT, this doesn't mean that you can tow with it. I have seen hitches on ZTR's but that is typically only on machines to make the consumer feel good about it having "versatility" that otherwise isn't suitable for the abuse that many homeowners might subject it to. Now, if you want to buy a ZTR with the best of the best transmissions, either integrated units (zt-5400's) or separate pump/motors, sure you could get away with some tough use here and there but you will pay over $10k for such a mower and it still isn't practical for hauling things around.

If the ZTR can save you time, certainly look to that and maybe an older gear type or tried and true hydro model just for hauling.

 

[zadok]

Thanks guys... I get the heat and hauling issues. I've never towed with a "riding" or "garden" tractor. As a kid, I started off with gear drive stuff, and never towed with those either!

As you may have discerned, my overall pet peeve is build quality. That JD would paint something green, stick the lowest end drive unit in it, and sell it to big box stores who may know what a 2x4 is, let alone a piece of power equipment, annoys me. In that, I would tend to avoid even a high-end JD.

Again, my last experience was with the Simplicity Broadmoor. I bought it mainly because of reputation, the Vanguard engine, 10 ga. etc, plus I knew the dealer. We talked about the K-57, but the dealer had no issues and neither did I.

I am leading toward a ZTR. A 2800 would be cool, but I'd feel compelled to offer to mow the neighbor's yard as well!

 

[Hammermechanicman]

Many years ago the CEO of JD decided that JD was losing too much market share. JD had over 50% of the high end market but none of the low end so JD brought out the box store green mowers. Stockholders want market share. Those mowers may be green but they are built to a price point not a durability point. You get what you pay for.

 

[Darryl G]

One thing to consider regarding mower transmissions, is that only a rider type (with steering wheel) rated as having a "ground engaging" transmission should be used for towing any heavy loads. Yes, many have towed with K46's and alike without fail, but add the slightest grade or overloaded cart and the work that the transmission must do increases exponentially causing excessive heat and premature transmission failure. I have seen mowers with the K58 rated as ground engaging but I wouldn't settle for anything less than a K62 with steel cut gears or a K66 if I had a worry about what I was doing with it. As for ZTR's, the transmissions in these ONLY get better as the weight of the machine increases or he need for speed is there. The reason why a machine may have 2800s and not 2200s is that the cutting performance can support faster speeds while mowing or because that machine is significantly heavier than one utilizing a lesser transmission, BUT, this doesn't mean that you can tow with it. I have seen hitches on ZTR's but that is typically only on machines to make the consumer feel good about it having "versatility" that otherwise isn't suitable for the abuse that many homeowners might subject it to. Now, if you want to buy a ZTR with the best of the best transmissions, either integrated units (zt-5400's) or separate pump/motors, sure you could get away with some tough use here and there but you will pay over $10k for such a mower and it still isn't practical for hauling things around.

If the ZTR can save you time, certainly look to that and maybe an older gear type or tried and true hydro model just for hauling.

We've had this disagreement before. You CAN haul/tow with a ZT mower and some manufacturers make this clear in their manuals. It's a matter of weight and duration. If you're hauling a load of firewood or wood mulch in a cart or dragging some brush a couple hundred feet across your yard (intermittent use) that's entirely different from continuous use such as towing an aerator.