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This year when I fired up my snow blower for the first time, the engine was a little funny. It surges kind like the choke is on, but it does this with no choke on. And under no load, if I put it on half choke, it kind of smoothes out.

We just got a big storm so I was clearing my driveway and what was interesting was that the machine would surge like crazy UNLESS it was chowing down on snow. Under snow load, the engine would smooth right out. Then as soon as it was done, it would start surging again.

It also conks out at about 25% throttle, so you can't leave it idling at "turtle" while you go clear off a car.

This behavior is all new. This is a 5 year old blower and it has always run great before this. I always change the oil ever spring. It did have half a tank of stabilized old gas in it from last winter. But once I burned through that, I put in fresh gas and the engines behavior was exactly the same.

The last thing I did was put a good amount of sea foam in the current gas, though I haven't used it yet so none of that has actually gone through. And I was planning on replacing the spark plug today for good measure, and hoping between those two things, one would be the fix.

Here is a clip of it surging under no load:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4s6obZD8zQ

Engine surges when the air fuel mixture is lean. More air than fuel.
So you either have a fuel blockage, or a vacuum leak sucking in air.
I would be sure fuel lines arent blocked.
You may try running it with the gas cap loose also, but a plugged cap vent normally doesnt cause surging.
The most likely is just a carburetor cleaning will fix it.
To me it looks like the engine is a Honda or Honda clone...

this video should show you how to clean it, if it is a Honda.or clone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHdhuDpeKw

If you can get any WD40 in a trigger pack (no aresol can) and spray around where the carburetor mounts to the engine, if it revs up when you do that you have a vacuum leak. Usually a tore gasket.

Scrubcadet10 said:

Engine surges when the air fuel mixture is lean. More air than fuel.
So you either have a fuel blockage, or a vacuum leak sucking in air.
I would be sure fuel lines arent blocked.
You may try running it with the gas cap loose also, but a plugged cap vent normally doesnt cause surging.
The most likely is just a carburetor cleaning will fix it.
To me it looks like the engine is a Honda or Honda clone...

this video should show you how to clean it, if it is a Honda.or clone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAHdhuDpeKw

If you can get any WD40 in a trigger pack (no aresol can) and spray around where the carburetor mounts to the engine, if it revs up when you do that you have a vacuum leak. Usually a tore gasket.

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So why would it stop surging when it was under heavy snow load? If it was running lean, wouldn't that cause even more bogging down under load?


Also, if the problem turns out to be a bad gasket, not a dirty/clogged carb, you are referring to gasket #32 in this diagram, correct?
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...-storm-tracker-2690xp-2014/370-suc-carburetor

The reason it doesn't surge when there is a load on it has to do with the governor on the engine, and it giving it more fuel.
And it smooths out when you choke it because choking it ritchens the fuel mixture (less air mixing with fuel).

Most likely it would be that gasket if it failed. But I would try cleaning the carburetor first. Especially since it dies at low throttle.

General retail mark ups are between 30% to 50% of the retail price.
So when you see a shop that is selling everything at near cost they are either in serious financial trouble & desperate for cash flow or they are very cashed up & are trying to send all local competitors bankrupt.
Both business plans have a very short life.

bertsmobile1 said:

General retail mark ups are between 30% to 50% of the retail price.
So when you see a shop that is selling everything at near cost they are either in serious financial trouble & desperate for cash flow or they are very cashed up & are trying to send all local competitors bankrupt.
Both business plans have a very short life.

Click to expand...

.... uh, what?

Scrubcadet10 said:

The reason it doesn't surge when there is a load on it has to do with the governor on the engine, and it giving it more fuel.
And it smooths out when you choke it because choking it ritchens the fuel mixture (less air mixing with fuel).

Most likely it would be that gasket if it failed. But I would try cleaning the carburetor first. Especially since it dies at low throttle.

Click to expand...

So I replaced the spark plug, since its only $2.60, but that didn't help. Hopefully if it's a dirt issue, running through the next storm with this sea foam in there will start to make it run a little better.

Regarding spraying WD40 around the gasket to see if it has an air leak, you have to take half of this machine apart to get to the carb! It's crazy. They cover it with a metal shield, but put some of the bolts to that shield behind the belt cover, that itself is behind the chute arm. It's a ridiculous process, so I figure for now ill just leave it as is, run it through the next storm and if theres no improvement at all by the end of THAT, then I'll start taking it apart and see what I can find.

Also of note, new gaskets are like $5 on ebay. But new carburetors are like $11 on ebay.

bertsmobile1 said:

General retail mark ups are between 30% to 50% of the retail price.
So when you see a shop that is selling everything at near cost they are either in serious financial trouble & desperate for cash flow or they are very cashed up & are trying to send all local competitors bankrupt.
Both business plans have a very short life.

Click to expand...

You okay there buddy?

Your surging problem is the idle circuit in the carb is blocked. With no load the engine will be running on the idle circuit unless the engine is near or at full throttle. Under load it runs on the high speed circuit. Watch the top of the throttle shaft when it is surging. It will be bouncing open/close with the surging. You need to clean the carb and especially the idle circuit. I see this all the time. Completely drain the fuel system at the end of the season will fix the problem in the future.

l008com said:

Also of note, new gaskets are like $5 on ebay. But new carburetors are like $11 on ebay.

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Those are aftermarket carburetors so the performance is pot luck. But as suggested do a good cleaning and it should resolve the problem.

bertsmobile1 said:

General retail mark ups are between 30% to 50% of the retail price.
So when you see a shop that is selling everything at near cost they are either in serious financial trouble & desperate for cash flow or they are very cashed up & are trying to send all local competitors bankrupt.
Both business plans have a very short life.

Click to expand...

Hmmm...Maybe I should charging more. I getting my Briggs parts at 20% or more off list. By your comment instead marking them back up to list I should be charging another 30-50% GPM of suggested retail price. Now all the other parts that I don't the retail on I mark-up 35% GPM above my cost except for for my JD and Stihl parts which I do 20% GPM as I give a 10% discount to 65+ seniors.

Or are we misunderstanding what you posted?

AVB said:

Hmmm...Maybe I should charging more. I getting my Briggs parts at 20% or more off list. By your comment instead marking them back up to list I should be charging another 30-50% GPM of suggested retail price. Now all the other parts that I don't the retail on I mark-up 35% GPM above my cost except for for my JD and Stihl parts which I do 20% GPM as I give a 10% discount to 65+ seniors.

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I price match to a couple of big on line retailers because if a customer googles the part numbers on the invoice those companies will come up.
Down the bottom of the invoice is the disclaimer " unless stated all parts are OEM after market parts and warranted for 12 months -- Bert's does not use cheap Jackmax parts "
The original reply was just general pricing and noting that a cheap parts supplier may be very temporary.
The mark up was on true wholesale parts not discounted retail prices that a dealer may give to another company as a trade discount.

In my area the dealer to dealer discount is usually 10% off list, Parts distributor to dealer discount can vary from 10-50% off of list with some wholegoods being as low as 5% discount. And then the customer complains that you can't negotiate the price of some low profit items. Manufacturers are also guilty of selling directly to the customer on places like Amazon for less than the dealer can purchase it, or in some cases box stores sell several hundred below dealer cost.

bertsmobile1 said:

I price match to a couple of big on line retailers because if a customer googles the part numbers on the invoice those companies will come up.
Down the bottom of the invoice is the disclaimer " unless stated all parts are OEM after market parts and warranted for 12 months -- Bert's does not use cheap Jackmax parts "
The original reply was just general pricing and noting that a cheap parts supplier may be very temporary.
The mark up was on true wholesale parts not discounted retail prices that a dealer may give to another company as a trade discount.

Click to expand...

Ahhh that sounds better. Personally lately I have been avoid aftermarket parts myself especially with the current distributors I do make a decent profit margin. Some of the OEM are even cheaper to buy than the aftermarket for me now. No reason to use el cheapo parts especially when my business reputation is on the line.

I really got burned last year on v-belts where my normally good supplier which to an India company that was sending out belts that 1-2 inches short. I lost nearly 1000 usd as they refused to replace them; unless, it at the time of delivery. I also tried several aftermarket carburetor for handhelds and every one of them failed to perform as the OEM carburetors.

One good thing came out that problem and that is now I a v-belt measurer tool that measures up to 170".

ILENGINE said:

In my area the dealer to dealer discount is usually 10% off list,

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It would nice they did that around here but they don't they are taking JD's attitude.

Parts distributor to dealer discount can vary from 10-50% off of list with some wholegoods being as low as 5% discount. And then the customer complains that you can't negotiate the price of some low profit items. Manufacturers are also guilty of selling directly to the customer on places like Amazon for less than the dealer can purchase it, or in some cases box stores sell several hundred below dealer cost.

Click to expand...

And yes I have ran into this too which not problem as I am independent shop so I am free to purchase where ever I get the best price. I only had a hand to complain about the price that I resale items for. For those customers they can just he items themselves and install them themselves. That way they deal any problems that they run into with the parts. It does make a good feeling with they spend for unnecessary parts that they can't return. A few have tried to me to buy their unused parts but most times I can buy for less than what they paid on eBay or Amazon for the exact same parts. Just got to careful when buying from a non distributor as some of the online claims OEM parts but send aftermarket parts.

For those that buys equipment from the big box stores they can either deal that store for warranty work or just pay as if they had no warranty.

AVB, I don't have the luxury of refusing warranty work from the box stores sometimes since I have a couple lines that the stores can't warranty, and I am the only service center within the area.

Interesting conversation. I have had people ask if i do warranty work on the cheap mowers from the big box stores. I don't have any affiliation to any mfgr or distributor other than tax free accounts from some parts houses. I tell them sorry but no. Everybody pays. I have heard some horror stories from people trying to get something covered under warranty on big box mowers, especially Huskee from Tractor Supply. ILENGINE, how is it you are forced into warranty work? Do you sell the brand or some type of mfgr affiliation? The local JD/Stihl dealer has many bad war stories about working with mfgrs about warranty work. I don't need that headache.

ILengine, Then you must OEM dealer then as I am independent shop and I can't get reimburse for anything. Plus here most of the local OEM dealers will not even deal with an item under warranty even if they are dealer; unless, they sold the unit themselves. Makes very to get warranty service done. I had a couple bad ignition coils that Kohler told me was under warranty and for me to them to a local for replacement. Guess what they wouldn't do it.

Here Hammer the local JD dealer has a bad rep on repairs. It got so that one of my customer brought a 950 ZTR and won't even let the dealer do the warranty work. He rather pay me to do the work. They also a Stihl dealer that couldn't even find a bad spark plug on a HS56 hedger that was under warranty. I ended up having to fix it for the customer.

Now we do need to get back to OP problems. We are getting far off the subject.

Hammermechanicman said:

Interesting conversation. I have had people ask if i do warranty work on the cheap mowers from the big box stores. I don't have any affiliation to any mfgr or distributor other than tax free accounts from some parts houses. I tell them sorry but no. Everybody pays. I have heard some horror stories from people trying to get something covered under warranty on big box mowers, especially Huskee from Tractor Supply. ILENGINE, how is it you are forced into warranty work? Do you sell the brand or some type of mfgr affiliation? The local JD/Stihl dealer has many bad war stories about working with mfgrs about warranty work. I don't need that headache.

Click to expand...

Check my signature under my post. If you are a listed dealer/service center you are required to warranty products no matter where they were purchased from. I am also the only Greenworks service center within a 50 mile radius from me. But Greenworks also includes Snapper, Husqvarna, Poulan Pro battery operated mowers, trimmers, blowers, etc.

l008com said:

So why would it stop surging when it was under heavy snow load? If it was running lean, wouldn't that cause even more bogging down under load?


Also, if the problem turns out to be a bad gasket, not a dirty/clogged carb, you are referring to gasket #32 in this diagram, correct?
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...-storm-tracker-2690xp-2014/370-suc-carburetor

Click to expand...

When an engine is running without a load it is actually drawing fuel from the idle circuit of the carb. But because the idle circuit in your carb in clogged the engine is is slowing down due to lack of fuel which then the governor spring pulls the throttle to run faster which exposes the high speed jet of the carb to the low pressure air in the carb, and then slows back down after getting a gulp of fuel. When you put a load on the engine the engine governor tries to maintain the engine speed, and in doing so gets fuel from the high speed jet.

AVB said:

ILengine, Then you must OEM dealer then as I am independent shop and I can't get reimburse for anything. Plus here most of the local OEM dealers will not even deal with an item under warranty even if they are dealer; unless, they sold the unit themselves. Makes very to get warranty service done. I had a couple bad ignition coils that Kohler told me was under warranty and for me to them to a local for replacement. Guess what they wouldn't do it.

Here Hammer the local JD dealer has a bad rep on repairs. It got so that one of my customer brought a 950 ZTR and won't even let the dealer do the warranty work. He rather pay me to do the work. They also a Stihl dealer that couldn't even find a bad spark plug on a HS56 hedger that was under warranty. I ended up having to fix it for the customer.

Click to expand...

There are different types of dealers. Listed dealers are required to service and warranty items sold anywhere. Unlisted dealers are only required to service what they sell.

Hey, i hit something with my new mower and now it shakes real bad. You will fix it under warranty. Right?
Hey, i left the key on for a few days on my new mower. Battery is dead. It's under warranty isn't it?
Hey, i forgot to put oil in the new mower and it locked up. I did put oil in after the fact to fool you. Should be under warranty I'm sure.
Hey, i hit a tree because this new mower turns too tight and broke the hood. Warranty repair isn't it?

ILENGINE said:

When an engine is running without a load it is actually drawing fuel from the idle circuit of the carb. But because the idle circuit in your carb in clogged the engine is is slowing down due to lack of fuel which then the governor spring pulls the throttle to run faster which exposes the high speed jet of the carb to the low pressure air in the carb, and then slows back down after getting a gulp of fuel. When you put a load on the engine the engine governor tries to maintain the engine speed, and in doing so gets fuel from the high speed jet.

Click to expand...

+1

There is also one other possibility that I have seen and that is the idle speed itself can be set too low; therefore the starves for fuel as even the idle bleed circuit is partially blocked by the throttle vane.

But as noted if it started surging after sitting over a month a carburetor cleaning is recommended first as fuel does evaporate leaving the additives behind plugging the tiny fuel passages in the carburetor. Ethanol fuel have a lot more of these additives plus the alcohol attracts moisture from the air which it more prone to causing problems but non ethanol fuel also have additives just not as much so both can cause problem if left unused for extended peroids.

Hammermechanicman said:

Hey, i hit something with my new mower and now it shakes real bad. You will fix it under warranty. Right?
Hey, i left the key on for a few days on my new mower. Battery is dead. It's under warranty isn't it?
Hey, i forgot to put oil in the new mower and it locked up. I did put oil in after the fact to fool you. Should be under warranty I'm sure.
Hey, i hit a tree because this new mower turns too tight and broke the hood. Warranty repair isn't it?

Click to expand...

I haven't read a warranty yet that covers stupid things. Most don't cover anything other than factory defects in materials and workmanship plus most warranties are written in such a way that technically everything is not covered. Basically it is only warranteed until up start it up or the warranty period expires which ever comes first.

Update!!

I finally got around to ordering a new carb. $10 shipped off ebay. I threw it on tonight and it immediately ran like it was brand new. Started right up, ran great, lowered the throttle to idle and it idle'd great. So as far as that main problem, mission accomplished!

But I had a slight problem during reassembly
Spare parts! I looked close and watched videos and could not find where these parts go!
The loop looks like it would go in the belt area, but the video I watched had no such loop. But then it was a similar model but not the exact same model so I'm not sure.
And the two screws, they may or may not be the screws that keep that loop bolted down. They look like they are similar to the screws holding the outer body panels on, but they are longer. And I looked everywhere and couldn't find any 'missing' screws. Unfortunately I had to leave the blower disassembled for a few weeks while I waited for the new carb. Just long enough to forget where everything goes!

It is in the low speed circuit, Remove the idle speed adjusting screw and look stright under where you took that screw out and you will see a black pc of plastic or a phillips screw. gently remove the plastic pc and clean the jet I think it is about .013 hole size and then blow it out the jet is the pc of plastic. Now if you have the phillips screw type you remove the screw and then with the 013 cleaning tip reach down in and clean the brass jet. Sometimes this is very hard to get to with the carb installed.

I'm not convinced it was the low speed circuit. While my original post said it ran fine under load, that was only after the first snow storm. As time went on, it would run poorly under load too. Still much better than when idle, but definitely not normal.

Also I've already replaced the carb with a new one and that problem is long gone.

Also regarding my spare parts, I looked through a bunch of parts lists and couldn't find that metal loop. I watched video after video until I finally found one that had it! So now I know where that goes! And I suspect the two extra bolts go on the inside of the airbox area. So next time I have a few hours to work on it, that beast should be good to go.

Follow-up follow-up: Everything is back together properly and the machine is running great. The wire loop went where pictured in the previous post, and the two bolts were part of the airbox. Now we just need some snow.... wait I mean heat waves.