Toro Timecutter Z5000 issue with the starter solenoid

[macguy1959]

My question is about the wires connected to the small terminals. One side has a blue wire running to it for the starter switch ( which is getting power from the key switch) and the other side has 2 green wires running to it. What are those green wires ? Looks like they are coming from a relay? Everything I've read says it should be ground. I was mowing when the zero turn just died. Turning the key makes that relay click but doesn't engage the starter. I can turn the key to the ON position and jump the solenoid to start the tractor but I don't want to keep doing that. Parts I've replaced so far: New relay, new solenoid and new fuses. I've also jumpered both brake switches (push button switches for each stalk) and I jumped the seat switch. I've also tried running a wire from the negative batt cable to that post that has the 2 green wires. Still won't engage the starter. I'm stumped

 

[bertsmobile1]

The green wires are a switched ground , unswitched grounds are black usually .
On a Timecutter they come from the brake module & ignition relay .
Toro have a sort of wiring diagram in the owners manual , a better diagram of just the brake module in the service manual and a full wiring diagram in the "Demystification Guide " which seems to be about right for wiring diagrams as only about 0.5% of the population seem to understand them .
All are free downloads from Toro

 

[macguy1959]

The green wires are a switched ground , unswitched grounds are black usually .
On a Timecutter they come from the brake module & ignition relay .
Toro have a sort of wiring diagram in the owners manual , a better diagram of just the brake module in the service manual and a full wiring diagram in the "Demystification Guide " which seems to be about right for wiring diagrams as only about 0.5% of the population seem to understand them .
All are free downloads from Toro

Thank you. After further checking, I do have ground on the green wires with the key in the ON and CRANK positions of the key switch. I also have power on the blue wire coming from the key switch in the CRANK position but I haven’t measured that voltage yet. So with power to the blue wire and ground on the green wires, the starter should engage, correct ? With the key in CRANK position there is no power getting to the starter side of the solenoid. Weird. Maybe the voltage coming through the blue wire is too low ? Maybe the new solenoid is bad ? To check can I run a wire from battery positive to the post the blue wire attaches to ?

 

[bertsmobile1]

get a short wire & jump from the hot battery cable to the terminal the blue wire is on with key in the on position.
You should hear the solenoid click ( I like to say klack because it is quite loud ) and the engine should spin or at least the starter engage with the flywheel
IF not then the solenoid has burned out & needs replacing , they have a finite service life
I am assuming that you can rotate the engine by hand

 

[macguy1959]

get a short wire & jump from the hot battery cable to the terminal the blue wire is on with key in the on position.
You should hear the solenoid click ( I like to say klack because it is quite loud ) and the engine should spin or at least the starter engage with the flywheel
IF not then the solenoid has burned out & needs replacing , they have a finite service life
I am assuming that you can rotate the engine by hand

The solenoid is brand new and I can start and run the engine if I jump the solenoid. Engine is not seized

 

[Hammermechanicman]

If your timecutter has the brake control module they are famous for getting corroded connections. Everything goes through it. Try unplugging and plugging the connectors in a few times and see if it cranks. I personally think it is a POS system.

 

[StarTech]

With you able to start and run the engine jumpering the two main post of the starter relay (solenoid) that pretty leaves only one component that might be failing. That would be the kill relay. A simple test here should say if it is good or not. Even without the engine running can you hear the PTO clutch engage when you are on the seat or both control arms out at neutral position? IF the clutch engages then the relay is fine and you have wiring problem between the Kill relay and the starter relay (solenoid). Other test is to ground the green wire side of the circuit to frame. One note these relays needs at least 9 vdc to fully retract.

 

[macguy1959]

The tractor is finally starting normally now. The new solenoid was faulty. Went to an auto parts store and bought a 3 pole solenoid, eliminating the ground pole (and thus the relay). Tractor fires up every time now. Thank you

 

[hlw49]

Could be the PTO switch. Start circuit goes through the PTO Switch.

 

[macguy1959]

Could be the PTO switch. Start circuit goes through the PTO Switch.

See above but thanks for replying