TORO Riding Mower 8-32 Clutch Problem

[Rick'sToro8-32]

I don't know why I am thinking some light fabrication is the answer for this problem, but I do. Now you have me thinking . . . with the plate on the back of the mower if I did some light welding and grinding on that 'slot' and made it smaller that might be enough for a fix.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Amazing the difference a touch of weld and a few minutes with a file can do

 

[Rick'sToro8-32]

Found info on mower:

Unit Model # 56145
Unit Serial # 7013195

Took off deck last night and I think the problem is in the rear pully / plate area.

Here's the whole mower: PLEASE CLICK ON PICTURES TO ENLARGE



Here's the front clutch assembly which looks good:



Here's the rear part at the bottom where it looks like the plate is not down for enough:




Finally, here is a close up of the rear plate. It's like the plate needs to be pulled down farther for everything to work (the angle of this picture is deceiving, there's plenty of room for the plate to go down in front of that bolt below it:




Thanks for any help, still after many hours still completely stumped. It's like that bottom plate needs to be pulled down about another 1/2" or so for things to work correctly but I don't see anything to put tension on it to pull it down or any way to adjust it.

 

[Rick'sToro8-32]

The only other thing I could add would be that when I was mowing with it last, when I pushed in the clutch I heard a noise like something sprung. or let go, or possibly broke before the mower took off again and I couldn't stop it.

I guess in addition to welding the slot on the plate smaller I could probably even put a bolt, lock washer, and nut in the slot and some locktite and would probably work, but at this point, I'd really like to know what the "real" fix is.

It's like something "happend /changed" mechanically with the clutch the last time I pushed the pedal in the other day all at once, it wasn't a gradually occuring problem, and the question is what "happened / changed"?

 

[bertsmobile1]

To my eye it all looks good.
The spring at the very back connected to the bottom of the plate pulls the bottom of that plate left ( as seen in the photo) which pushes the tensioning pulley right and engages the belt.
The clutch rod should pull that plate foreword against the spring and to do that the hole which rod got through must be to the right of the pulley.
It looks like the wear in the pulleys and belts has allowed the spring to pull the plate too far to the right and cross over the clutch rod.
You will most likely need to get a belt a couple of sizes shorter to make up for the wear in the pulleys.
Have a close look into the V grooves to confirm the belt has not been running on the bottom of the pully in which case the pulley will need to be replaced.
Ovalith in any of the pivoting holes will make this a lot worse so pull that plate out and have a close lok at the center hole the bolt got through, the spring engagement hole , the clutch rod hole and the rod itself.
Most likely all will need building up to replace the worn steel.

This is not an uncomon problem with big hour mowers.
I oft have to go a belt 3 or 4 sizes smaller in order to compensate for wear.
That tensioner pulley should never get any closer to the side rail than about 2/3 the distance from the strait belt run & the side of the mower.

 

[Rick'sToro8-32]

Thanks very much Bertsmobile!! Very kind an very helpful!! I printed it and studied it and learned much. Thanks also to the person who sent me the private message about this.

Bertsmobile, I have a very good understanding of this now thanks to you. Very nice of you to take the time to explain that.

The only thing I wasn't completely sure about what putting a smaller belt on the pulleys becuase when I mimick this by prying the idler pulley over to the left as if it had a smaller belt on it, that takes the plate farther up and in the wrong direction and makes things worse. I'm not sure in my case that a smaller belt is a help. And, possibly more importantly I would like to share som new info with you I just noticed while 'standing on my head' to look at this area more tonight.

In this picture I noticed a "tang" on the back of plate like it would be to attach another part or spring to it (please click on thumbnail photo to enlarge):




And, possibly even more important, down below this tang, to the right and low of the plate, I just noticed a bolt with shiny threads on it without a nut and around the bolt a clean mark that looks like there was a part bolted to it that "fell off:"




Obviously you are heads-and-shoulders above me in understanding this part of the mower, but based on the tang and shiny bolt area, and the fact that I thought I heard something let go when the mower went down, I have to think it is possible that I am missing parts here on this assembly.

I looked all over the internet for a diagram of this area and came up empty.

Thanks very much for any contined thoughts on this as I seek a solution while the grass keeps growing outside. :tongue:

***Also, NOTE ADDED: If you look at the crankshaft (to the left of the 'tang') you can see coring from where the edge of plate might possibly have hit it when the mower was going the other day as if it moved up in a higher position at that time. Or, maybe I'm just grasping at straws now?

 

[Rick'sToro8-32]

I like to leave things put together and dirty and greasy to look for clues when troubleshooting as long as possible (especially when I don't know what I'm doing), but if I can't find a diagram for this maybe it is time to pop that plate off as you say and turn it over and look for clues. This is really something. I haven't had to take a mower to a repair shop for 30 years, I've been able to fix every engine problem or any other problem
and rebuild small engines. I'm the one that has it right in front of me, I can't believe I can't figure this out.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Please look at the parts diagram below very carefully.
Note that the clutch rod is outboard of the clutch pulley.
Then compare that to your mower and you will see that the clutch rod is now inboard of the pulley .
In that position it can not pull because to do so it will need to be stetching the steel plate.
Now the plate sits on a bracket held on by two bolts and it looks like one of these has dropped off which has allowed the bracket to move out of position which has allowed the clutch rod to cross over the pulley .

It looks like bolt (11) has dropped out as the large hole in the plate is there to allow access to that bolt and in your phoos there is no nut visible through that hole.
So then the actual mounting plate ( 5 ) has moved foreword allowing the clutch rod ( 20 ) to cross over the pulley mounting bolt ( 16 )

 

[Rick'sToro8-32]

Okay, Bert'smobile . . . thanks to you, we have SUCCESS!!! :thumbsup:










The clutch pedal is in the full upright position again and actually noticeably stiffer than before.

You were so kind to hang in there with me on this repair I appreciate it very much. For what it's worth, it ended up being the nut on bolt (9) that fell off and caused all the problems. That bolt with the shiny threads that caught my eye the other day was (9) after closer inspection. When the assembly let go the other day, the assembly was so whopper-jawed that the bolt hole on the back bracket was hidden by the front plate. I know you know this, but just to be clear for any others who might have this problem, it was the nut on the bolt in the large access hole that loosened and fell off:




So I guess there's nothing to do at this point but chant, 'Who's the man? Bert's the man!.' :laughing:

I can't thank you enough.

I'm going to give the mower a good washing and lubricate that dry chain now and then get that grass cut and maybe even crack open a victory beer!

But, seriously, thank you very much,
Rick

 

[bertsmobile1]

Awe , gees Rick.
Now you have done it.
Can't get my swole head through the workshop door :ashamed:
Glad you are back in the seat and I have one more solution to a prooblem I have not come across, yet, in the back of the head.