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Toro MX4800 seems very thirsty
#1
B
BunyipOz
B
BunyipOz
Hi Guys,
I'm from "Down Under" where the grass grows when it rains (sometimes).
Recently I bought a new Toro MX4800, $AU 8,800.
I has a Kohler V2, 21hp, model ZT720 motor.
The fuel tank is not sufficient to do 8 or 9 hours mowing, it holds 18.9 litres of fuel, re-filling is a pain in the bum as the filler cap is quite small, about 60mm in dia and you cannot see the fuel level rising in the tank unless you stop pouring and look at the sight gauge on the front.
Re-filling when the motor is hot is a definite health hazard !
Q: Any clues on improving fuel consumption ?
On this model, Toro have seen fit to fit "wing tanks" over each drive wheel but they are cosmetic as no provision to hold any fuel.
A reserve supply would be a great asset.
I am looking for a LHS "wing tank" off a wrecked Toro or some other make that I could adapt to provide an additional 5 litres (1.3 gal in your lingo).
Q: Anyone got any ideas on this subject ?
Appreciate your considered responses.
Cheers,
BunyipOz
I'm from "Down Under" where the grass grows when it rains (sometimes).
Recently I bought a new Toro MX4800, $AU 8,800.
I has a Kohler V2, 21hp, model ZT720 motor.
The fuel tank is not sufficient to do 8 or 9 hours mowing, it holds 18.9 litres of fuel, re-filling is a pain in the bum as the filler cap is quite small, about 60mm in dia and you cannot see the fuel level rising in the tank unless you stop pouring and look at the sight gauge on the front.
Re-filling when the motor is hot is a definite health hazard !
Q: Any clues on improving fuel consumption ?
On this model, Toro have seen fit to fit "wing tanks" over each drive wheel but they are cosmetic as no provision to hold any fuel.
A reserve supply would be a great asset.
I am looking for a LHS "wing tank" off a wrecked Toro or some other make that I could adapt to provide an additional 5 litres (1.3 gal in your lingo).
Q: Anyone got any ideas on this subject ?
Appreciate your considered responses.
Cheers,
BunyipOz
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Ok,
That mower should be good for 2 to 4 acres /hour mowing and 1/2 to 1 acre /hour paddock slashing.
So if you are trying to mow more than 20 acres a day then you have bought the wrong mower and the Toro will be clapped out before the 4 year warrantee runs out.
And if you can sit in the seat on a mower for 9 strait hours you certainly have better control over your body functions than I.
2 to 3 litres of fuel per hour or put it another way, 1-2 liters / acre is quite reasonable fuel consumption.
This mower is designed for 5 to 10 acre yards, not 500 acre farms, that is what PTO mowers on deisel tractors were designed for.
As for filling. get a 4 liter or 10 liter can and fill from that after 2 or 4 hours.
Septre fuel cans are universally available from both mower shops, hardwear shops and stock & station agents. They have a standard filling spout that is only 1" diameter and you can get an extended spout that is near 18" long so you can see into the fuel tank while filling.
The filler cap is under the armrest, well foreward of the engine bay , towards the outer edge of the mower so any spillages should run down the side on to the deck, a long way from the hot engine exhaust.
This is not a commercial mower.
It is the top end residential for houses on larger acreages.
That mower should be good for 2 to 4 acres /hour mowing and 1/2 to 1 acre /hour paddock slashing.
So if you are trying to mow more than 20 acres a day then you have bought the wrong mower and the Toro will be clapped out before the 4 year warrantee runs out.
And if you can sit in the seat on a mower for 9 strait hours you certainly have better control over your body functions than I.
2 to 3 litres of fuel per hour or put it another way, 1-2 liters / acre is quite reasonable fuel consumption.
This mower is designed for 5 to 10 acre yards, not 500 acre farms, that is what PTO mowers on deisel tractors were designed for.
As for filling. get a 4 liter or 10 liter can and fill from that after 2 or 4 hours.
Septre fuel cans are universally available from both mower shops, hardwear shops and stock & station agents. They have a standard filling spout that is only 1" diameter and you can get an extended spout that is near 18" long so you can see into the fuel tank while filling.
The filler cap is under the armrest, well foreward of the engine bay , towards the outer edge of the mower so any spillages should run down the side on to the deck, a long way from the hot engine exhaust.
This is not a commercial mower.
It is the top end residential for houses on larger acreages.
#3
reynoldston
Confidant
Looks like 18.9 liters is close to our 5 gallons. I have ran my 21 HP Command with a 61in cut which has a 5 gallon tank for 8 hrs. cutting grass at a race track parking lot and only fill it at the beginning of the job for the full day. By the way I did take breaks because that is how we work it in the great USA. It looks like the Confidant is a new engine for Kohler and it looks like it not going to be fuel friendly. You might want to ask your dealer about this? but they might say it normal. I just have a feeling you will have to put up with it or as you said add another fuel tank.
reynoldston
Hi Guys,
I'm from "Down Under" where the grass grows when it rains (sometimes).
Recently I bought a new Toro MX4800, $AU 8,800.
I has a Kohler V2, 21hp, model ZT720 motor.
!
Q: Any clues on improving fuel consumption ?
.
).
Q: Anyone got any ideas on this subject ?
Appreciate your considered responses.
Cheers,
BunyipOz
Confidant
Looks like 18.9 liters is close to our 5 gallons. I have ran my 21 HP Command with a 61in cut which has a 5 gallon tank for 8 hrs. cutting grass at a race track parking lot and only fill it at the beginning of the job for the full day. By the way I did take breaks because that is how we work it in the great USA. It looks like the Confidant is a new engine for Kohler and it looks like it not going to be fuel friendly. You might want to ask your dealer about this? but they might say it normal. I just have a feeling you will have to put up with it or as you said add another fuel tank.
#4
B
BunyipOz
B
BunyipOz
Ok,
That mower should be good for 2 to 4 acres /hour mowing and 1/2 to 1 acre /hour paddock slashing.
So if you are trying to mow more than 20 acres a day then you have bought the wrong mower and the Toro will be clapped out before the 4 year warrantee runs out.
And if you can sit in the seat on a mower for 9 strait hours you certainly have better control over your body functions than I.
2 to 3 litres of fuel per hour or put it another way, 1-2 liters / acre is quite reasonable fuel consumption.
This mower is designed for 5 to 10 acre yards, not 500 acre farms, that is what PTO mowers on deisel tractors were designed for.
~~~~~~~~~~~
OK Bertsmobile1,
Thank you for your reply but I think you have the bull by the tail going on the figures you quote. As you rightly remind me, this Toro mower is the top end residential mower for large house blocks.
My 16400m2 block (4.1 acres) includes a big house and various sheds, I reckon the grass area to be about 14,000m2 or 3.5 acres. The yard is garden/parklike with many, many tress, shrubs and a few garden beds.
Previously, we mowed with a 42" Hustler Fastrac (ZTR) and to mow all this area took all day, 8 to 9 hours - a long day sitting out in the sun.
The 48" Toro obviously cuts a bit quicker but to mow the same area, in one go, takes at least 7 hours and doesn't carry sufficient fuel to do the job and get back to the garage before it runs out.
You say 2 to 4 acres an hour mowing but then you say 1/2 to 1 acre an hour paddock slashing.
Regardless of what garden type grass you're cutting, the speed will range between three-quarters and full travel speed but this is severely knocked back every time you've got to spin around a tree or a bush.
I took umbrage at the way you're lecturing me about mowers, I'm no novice.
The first ZTR I owned was a 42" Dixon with transaxle drive, mechanical, cone type clutches. It was a beauty, fast, extremely manoeuvrable, much more so than any hydrostatic I've driven. We sold it when we sold the property we had, that was in 1997. In 2007 we purchased the 42" Hustler, it is fitted with a 17hp Kohler Courage, it's got a shade over 1400 hours and burns oil like it's going out of fashion.
The Hustler wasn't trouble free although the main problem was continual bearing failure of the deck drive idler pulley, located back near the engine. I ended up having a larger, steel pulley made up and it too has proved to be not up to the road imposed on it. The hydrostatics (no filters) were becoming tired although I'd drained them (as best I could) at about 600 hours and refilled but performance was never improved. From memory, the 2 fuel tanks held around 22 litres which gave you a decent reserve supply. At 14150 smu hours, the starter motor died and I bought the 48" Toto. I then removed the Hustler hydrostatics, drained them, replaced, fixed the starter and it is now the garden runabout and tows Mother's little trailer.
Re the Toro, I looked at every brand I could find, with particular regard as to blade cost. I did a spreadsheet on Hustler, Kubota, Husqvarna, John Deere, Toro, Cub Cadet, MTD, Big Dog, and the green one, can't recall the name.
Hustler blades were $25 each. Kubota, $75 each, Toro, (3 of) $20 each. The Toro has a better deck drive tensioning arrangement so I bought it, overlooking the skimpy fuel capacity.
The Toro is much noisier than the Hustler but that's the under deck suction at work and it cuts cleanly.
Just want more fuel capacity for the damn thing !
I see you hail from down in Mexico, maybe the grass doesn't grow as strongly down your way ?
Cheers,
BunyipCut123
#5
B
BunyipOz
Hi Reynoldston,
Thanks for replying, yes, I think I'll get the dealer to look at it and tweak the carby settings but you're probably right, I'll just get fobbed off.
Cheers,
BunyipCut123
B
BunyipOz
Confidant
Looks like 18.9 liters is close to our 5 gallons. I have ran my 21 HP Command with a 61in cut which has a 5 gallon tank for 8 hrs. cutting grass at a race track parking lot and only fill it at the beginning of the job for the full day. By the way I did take breaks because that is how we work it in the great USA. It looks like the Confidant is a new engine for Kohler and it looks like it not going to be fuel friendly. You might want to ask your dealer about this? but they might say it normal. I just have a feeling you will have to put up with it or as you said add another fuel tank.
Hi Reynoldston,
Thanks for replying, yes, I think I'll get the dealer to look at it and tweak the carby settings but you're probably right, I'll just get fobbed off.
Cheers,
BunyipCut123
#6
D
DK35vince
D
DK35vince
5 gallon per 8 or 9 hours sounds good to me.
Well under 3/4 gal/hr.
My 35 HP Super Z uses just under 2 gal per hour.
Well under 3/4 gal/hr.
My 35 HP Super Z uses just under 2 gal per hour.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Grass definately is growing down here.
We just got 6" and 60 head icluding calves, 40 Alpacas and 4 of us can not make a dent in it.
Big problem being the Kykiu becomes toxic for the cattle here if we let it get higher than 2' and it is putting on 1' per week.
You queery struck me as strange and not that of a person well versed in ZTR's.
Blade cost was a silly thing to consider as some blades will do 10 x the hours of others in particular the Kubota blades which are manganeese molly steel same as your dozer blades and excaviator teeth which is why they are so expensive.
Most of the rest are high carbon, boron steel which dose not hold an edge any where near as well as the Mg Mo alloy does.
Blade overlap is far more important as that determines how far you can allow the blades to wear before you start mohawking your lawn.
A little late now but it is never a good idea to buy the biggest deck in any range regardless of weather it comes with a bigger engine or not.
I assume that the obstacles mowed around dictated the deck size.
We mow 3 orchards but use 2 different mowers to do it and very shortly it will be out with the 100Hp Oliver pulling the Howard or things will get out of hand.
Next season will be better as we are nearly finished the flail mower which can plow through the tussock grass.
As you are in bannana bending territory I seriously suggest you talk to Alloy & Stainless Products 07-3881-3464 .
As a primary producer ( regardless of weather you are or not ) you can open an account with them and you will find they do the best valve for money ZTR blades in OZ.
I have gone to them for most of my commercial customers as they supply a larger range of older blades and most are thicker to boot.
Run 2 or 3 sets and keep them sharpened properly which will reduce the mowing time & the fuel consumption.
It is amazing how much energy is gobbled up by smashing grass with dull round edged blades rather than chopping off with sharp ones and you will never have enough time to sharpen them before you mow but swapping over only takes a few minutes, particularly if you set up a block & tackle around the back so you can quickly lift the mower high enough to sit in front of the deck, impact driver in hand.
All that wind noise you are hearing is what is costing you money. Moving air is expensive regardless of weather it is into a furnace, down a mine or under a mower deck.
The fuel consumption is still quite reasonable, so you are just going to work around it like filling up when you stop for crib from a 4 or 10 liter tank with extended filler tube.
The wing tanks fitted to the commercial Toros will not fit under your guards as they are designed to go on a bigger chassis.
The mowing rates are taken from Toro's own deck calculator, a tool dealers are supposed to use to work out what size deck to sell to customers. It assumes clean open access. The maximun mowing rate assumes you are lopping off an inch or so from a well kept lawn and it is 75% of the maximum speed x the deck width to come to an area/ hour figure .
The lower rate assumes a maximum cut the deck can cope with through heavy unkept ( pasture) paddocks and is calculated as 25% of max ground speed x deck width.
If your mowing area is only 3.5 acres , you are not bagging and it takes 7 hours to mow I would tend to think you may have been better off with a smaller deck on a faster more nimble machine or even using 2 mowers with something like a 30" to cut in around all the obstacles and the Toro to wipe out the clear areas in between. It is staggering how much faster small decks are in tight areas.
I sell a lot of 10/30's to customers who bought big 40" + ZTR's then found it takes longer to mow their blocks than it did with the old 36" tractor. Mind you most of these are on sub 5 acre blocks
We just got 6" and 60 head icluding calves, 40 Alpacas and 4 of us can not make a dent in it.
Big problem being the Kykiu becomes toxic for the cattle here if we let it get higher than 2' and it is putting on 1' per week.
You queery struck me as strange and not that of a person well versed in ZTR's.
Blade cost was a silly thing to consider as some blades will do 10 x the hours of others in particular the Kubota blades which are manganeese molly steel same as your dozer blades and excaviator teeth which is why they are so expensive.
Most of the rest are high carbon, boron steel which dose not hold an edge any where near as well as the Mg Mo alloy does.
Blade overlap is far more important as that determines how far you can allow the blades to wear before you start mohawking your lawn.
A little late now but it is never a good idea to buy the biggest deck in any range regardless of weather it comes with a bigger engine or not.
I assume that the obstacles mowed around dictated the deck size.
We mow 3 orchards but use 2 different mowers to do it and very shortly it will be out with the 100Hp Oliver pulling the Howard or things will get out of hand.
Next season will be better as we are nearly finished the flail mower which can plow through the tussock grass.
As you are in bannana bending territory I seriously suggest you talk to Alloy & Stainless Products 07-3881-3464 .
As a primary producer ( regardless of weather you are or not ) you can open an account with them and you will find they do the best valve for money ZTR blades in OZ.
I have gone to them for most of my commercial customers as they supply a larger range of older blades and most are thicker to boot.
Run 2 or 3 sets and keep them sharpened properly which will reduce the mowing time & the fuel consumption.
It is amazing how much energy is gobbled up by smashing grass with dull round edged blades rather than chopping off with sharp ones and you will never have enough time to sharpen them before you mow but swapping over only takes a few minutes, particularly if you set up a block & tackle around the back so you can quickly lift the mower high enough to sit in front of the deck, impact driver in hand.
All that wind noise you are hearing is what is costing you money. Moving air is expensive regardless of weather it is into a furnace, down a mine or under a mower deck.
The fuel consumption is still quite reasonable, so you are just going to work around it like filling up when you stop for crib from a 4 or 10 liter tank with extended filler tube.
The wing tanks fitted to the commercial Toros will not fit under your guards as they are designed to go on a bigger chassis.
The mowing rates are taken from Toro's own deck calculator, a tool dealers are supposed to use to work out what size deck to sell to customers. It assumes clean open access. The maximun mowing rate assumes you are lopping off an inch or so from a well kept lawn and it is 75% of the maximum speed x the deck width to come to an area/ hour figure .
The lower rate assumes a maximum cut the deck can cope with through heavy unkept ( pasture) paddocks and is calculated as 25% of max ground speed x deck width.
If your mowing area is only 3.5 acres , you are not bagging and it takes 7 hours to mow I would tend to think you may have been better off with a smaller deck on a faster more nimble machine or even using 2 mowers with something like a 30" to cut in around all the obstacles and the Toro to wipe out the clear areas in between. It is staggering how much faster small decks are in tight areas.
I sell a lot of 10/30's to customers who bought big 40" + ZTR's then found it takes longer to mow their blocks than it did with the old 36" tractor. Mind you most of these are on sub 5 acre blocks
#8
B
bertsmobile1
From what I have seen, unless there is a problem with your carb, particularly the amount of obstructions in the air filter, there is very little a dealer can do about fuel consumption.
The jetting is fixed, so unless you are at better than 5000' above sea level and need high altitude jetting, then you are restricted.
Kohler claim a 1% drop in power output for every 10 deg F above 60 F so the only other thing to consider is that the temperature up there is so high , you need a bigger engine to compensate for temperature.
This should be noticeable to you as the motor always struggleing and running WFO all day trying to keep up.
The same deck gets the same engine way down in Tassie where it is a tad cooler in summer than your place gets in winter ( unless you are in Stanthorpe) and contry to logic, a bigger engine can oft be a lot more economical although I would hope the local dealers would be on top of that problem.
B
bertsmobile1
Hi Reynoldston,
Thanks for replying, yes, I think I'll get the dealer to look at it and tweak the carby settings but you're probably right, I'll just get fobbed off.
Cheers,
BunyipCut123
From what I have seen, unless there is a problem with your carb, particularly the amount of obstructions in the air filter, there is very little a dealer can do about fuel consumption.
The jetting is fixed, so unless you are at better than 5000' above sea level and need high altitude jetting, then you are restricted.
Kohler claim a 1% drop in power output for every 10 deg F above 60 F so the only other thing to consider is that the temperature up there is so high , you need a bigger engine to compensate for temperature.
This should be noticeable to you as the motor always struggleing and running WFO all day trying to keep up.
The same deck gets the same engine way down in Tassie where it is a tad cooler in summer than your place gets in winter ( unless you are in Stanthorpe) and contry to logic, a bigger engine can oft be a lot more economical although I would hope the local dealers would be on top of that problem.
#9
B
BunyipOz
B
BunyipOz
Hi Bertsmobile1,
Thanks for persevering with me. After reading your post here I wish to apologise for my ‘testy’ reply to you first post, another ignorant Welshman bites the dust ! (Wonder if the Yanks will work that out ?)
Thank you also for the good advice re Alloy & Stainless Products, I will suss them out.
When we bought our Hustler in 2007 I found the first few blades lasted around 90 hours, we were turning paddock grass into what resembes ‘lawn’. As the Bride got closer to managing the grass and the height fell, blade life came down quite a bit and all entreaties to keep the blades out of the dirt went mostly, unheeded. I lost track of blade life as she began using the Hustler as a garden go-fer and it spent many hours at an idle putting her and her tools around the garden. As you would know, the SMU collects the same hours be it at full throttle or at an idle.
I note the Toro however, captures only blade hours.
I did try once with sharpening the blades, off the machine, with an angle grinder but didn’t seem to make much difference so I never continued with it. The Bride has now come to the realisation that our ‘paddock’ grass lawn seems to do better if it’s not cut one inch above the ground and now she seems to have accepted the odd long stalks that appear everywhere. On this basis, I think the blade cost is fairly critical re ownership costs but It’s something I’ll keep my eye on. El Nino is here now where we are so there mightn’t be much mowing until good seasons return.
In summary, I’ll stop wingeing about the Toro fuel filling and usage and tally up when it’s got 2 - 300 hours on the clock.
Cheers,
BunyipOz
Thanks for persevering with me. After reading your post here I wish to apologise for my ‘testy’ reply to you first post, another ignorant Welshman bites the dust ! (Wonder if the Yanks will work that out ?)
Thank you also for the good advice re Alloy & Stainless Products, I will suss them out.
When we bought our Hustler in 2007 I found the first few blades lasted around 90 hours, we were turning paddock grass into what resembes ‘lawn’. As the Bride got closer to managing the grass and the height fell, blade life came down quite a bit and all entreaties to keep the blades out of the dirt went mostly, unheeded. I lost track of blade life as she began using the Hustler as a garden go-fer and it spent many hours at an idle putting her and her tools around the garden. As you would know, the SMU collects the same hours be it at full throttle or at an idle.
I note the Toro however, captures only blade hours.
I did try once with sharpening the blades, off the machine, with an angle grinder but didn’t seem to make much difference so I never continued with it. The Bride has now come to the realisation that our ‘paddock’ grass lawn seems to do better if it’s not cut one inch above the ground and now she seems to have accepted the odd long stalks that appear everywhere. On this basis, I think the blade cost is fairly critical re ownership costs but It’s something I’ll keep my eye on. El Nino is here now where we are so there mightn’t be much mowing until good seasons return.
In summary, I’ll stop wingeing about the Toro fuel filling and usage and tally up when it’s got 2 - 300 hours on the clock.
Cheers,
BunyipOz
#10
B
BunyipOz
B
BunyipOz
Hi Bert,
Thanks for this response, on top of my Toro problem now, can't change the fuel supply without a lot of drama, not with the hassle.
I'm in northern New England, 690m (2,200odd feet) and it rarely gets past 32F. Just lovely !
Cheers,
BunyipOz
Thanks for this response, on top of my Toro problem now, can't change the fuel supply without a lot of drama, not with the hassle.
I'm in northern New England, 690m (2,200odd feet) and it rarely gets past 32F. Just lovely !
Cheers,
BunyipOz
#11
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well it was 36 inside the shed today & tomorrow will be hotter.
Sharp blades do make a big difference.
My trade customers all run multiple sets with the sole exception of one with a council contract for verges.
He hits so may tyres, bottles , old car engines, etc he recons they would work better as hammers than blades.
Generally you can sharpen them to about 1/2 the edge thickness of a new blade, just don't make the ground length too wide of you loose out on support for the blade and bend the edge thus defeating the reason for a sharp edge.
The important thing is to keep them balanced end to end as the spindle bearings are not particularly good and the spindle housing is too small for the lenght of the blade so the bearings are a little too close together.
FWIW I use an angle grinder a well.
I was going to uy a blade grinder but by the time I add the cost of grinding & balancing, it is cheaper for them to get new blades fitted.
All the commercial customers who have gone over to Toros are having troubles, particuarly those who went cheap and bought Time Cutters.
I will be interested in how the Kohler goes, all my mob bought kawakasi's and two have done heads in already, both replaced under warrantee as the dealers never checked them on the first service
Sharp blades do make a big difference.
My trade customers all run multiple sets with the sole exception of one with a council contract for verges.
He hits so may tyres, bottles , old car engines, etc he recons they would work better as hammers than blades.
Generally you can sharpen them to about 1/2 the edge thickness of a new blade, just don't make the ground length too wide of you loose out on support for the blade and bend the edge thus defeating the reason for a sharp edge.
The important thing is to keep them balanced end to end as the spindle bearings are not particularly good and the spindle housing is too small for the lenght of the blade so the bearings are a little too close together.
FWIW I use an angle grinder a well.
I was going to uy a blade grinder but by the time I add the cost of grinding & balancing, it is cheaper for them to get new blades fitted.
All the commercial customers who have gone over to Toros are having troubles, particuarly those who went cheap and bought Time Cutters.
I will be interested in how the Kohler goes, all my mob bought kawakasi's and two have done heads in already, both replaced under warrantee as the dealers never checked them on the first service