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Stens solenoid failure
#1
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I've had 3 failures of stens solenoids this year, same part numbers as well. and one on my own equipment just the other day.
anyway i replaced three total in 2021, one of which was on my Mule.
i repaired one mower back in the spring, March i think... that solenoid failed in July. i then went back with a OEM Kawasaki part.
i replaced another one in May, an it failed in October.
i replaced the on on my Mule in august and it failed last week.
Now the kicker is, they all failed the same way, you turn the key, and it doesn't retract or anything. just barely moves... i load tested the trigger wire by using a 12v30W tailight draw on it and it never dimmed. or flickered. So it appears the solenoid just gave up, and all in the same manner.
so it seems to be a stens/supplier issue.... so far the OEM kawasaki's are doing good.
Stens 435-864
I keep several of these on hand as i service a few older kawasaki Mule's which use the solenoid shift starters.anyway i replaced three total in 2021, one of which was on my Mule.
i repaired one mower back in the spring, March i think... that solenoid failed in July. i then went back with a OEM Kawasaki part.
i replaced another one in May, an it failed in October.
i replaced the on on my Mule in august and it failed last week.
Now the kicker is, they all failed the same way, you turn the key, and it doesn't retract or anything. just barely moves... i load tested the trigger wire by using a 12v30W tailight draw on it and it never dimmed. or flickered. So it appears the solenoid just gave up, and all in the same manner.
so it seems to be a stens/supplier issue.... so far the OEM kawasaki's are doing good.
#2
StarTech
StarTech
Hmmm. I don't even bother replacing the solenoid as I had good luck with the starters from DB. Beside the Kawasaki starter is only $75 from them with free shipping.
#3
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
That's normally what I do, but more cases of "I need it last week" , well if you would have told me last week I could have ordered a starter... I really need to take a tally of my most used and get a few starters...Hmmm. I don't even bother replacing the solenoid as I had good luck with the starters from DB. Beside the Kawasaki starter is only $75 from them with free shipping.
#4
StarTech
StarTech
Me too. But I did learn my lesson as I do have some from 2009 still on the shelf when I first started. Now it is most Kohler and Kawasaki starters. Those Briggs one are not failing as much around here; unless, uses a hammer.
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Have you told your rep ?
While it is good to make others aware of the problem it is better to let them know so they can take actions to recall or replace
While it is good to make others aware of the problem it is better to let them know so they can take actions to recall or replace
#6
StarTech
StarTech
Oh they could have a better policy than Briggs.
With Briggs you to get a local dealer to cooperate which none around will in order to get a part warrantied. I had two Briggs solenoid that fail right of the packaging. None of the local dealer would even try to get them replaced even with me having the invoice in hand from my Briggs distributor. So I was out over $100 on two defective anti after fire solenoids. It was the same with Kohler when I had an ignition coil failure which Kohler required both to be replaced. I told to get the local dealer to make them up. Again I got burned for coils.
So do I think Briggs and Kohler will honor their parts warranty well heck no.
With Briggs you to get a local dealer to cooperate which none around will in order to get a part warrantied. I had two Briggs solenoid that fail right of the packaging. None of the local dealer would even try to get them replaced even with me having the invoice in hand from my Briggs distributor. So I was out over $100 on two defective anti after fire solenoids. It was the same with Kohler when I had an ignition coil failure which Kohler required both to be replaced. I told to get the local dealer to make them up. Again I got burned for coils.
So do I think Briggs and Kohler will honor their parts warranty well heck no.
#7
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
I dont have an account with stens,I buy them from a stens dealer online, but I have contacted stens and got a "we'll look into it" reply ... I also contact arrowhead since they're supposedly the mfgr for stens... I've thought about trying to dismantle one and take a look and see if there is anything obviously wrong...but that may take more time than its worth.Have you told your rep ?
While it is good to make others aware of the problem it is better to let them know so they can take actions to recall or replace
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Depends weather you are a retail customer or a dealer .
Stens have always been good with me but I do buy direct from them
So when I showed the rep, he replaced the defective parts but shortly latter we were advised that the part ( Honda gear change spring ) would not be available for x months and we would be credited for any we had bought .Same thing happened with a load of in line petrol taps that had neoprene seals not butyl .
Another supplier basically told me to go jump so I don't use any of their products any more & if I need a brand they import, I buy it retail from the USA .
Never had a problem with any part from RGS so I guess they have better QC than Stens do
Stens have always been good with me but I do buy direct from them
So when I showed the rep, he replaced the defective parts but shortly latter we were advised that the part ( Honda gear change spring ) would not be available for x months and we would be credited for any we had bought .Same thing happened with a load of in line petrol taps that had neoprene seals not butyl .
Another supplier basically told me to go jump so I don't use any of their products any more & if I need a brand they import, I buy it retail from the USA .
Never had a problem with any part from RGS so I guess they have better QC than Stens do
#9
B
bertsmobile1
Like all those 1/2 witts that cut open oil filters with can openers .
B
bertsmobile1
And unless you know what to look for you would just be wasting your time unless it was obvious like a spring or an anchoring shoulder that was too small .I dont have an account with stens,I buy them from a stens dealer online, but I have contacted stens and got a "we'll look into it" reply ... I also contact arrowhead since they're supposedly the mfgr for stens... I've thought about trying to dismantle one and take a look and see if there is anything obviously wrong...but that may take more time than its worth.
Like all those 1/2 witts that cut open oil filters with can openers .
#10
StarTech
StarTech
A Stens account isn't that hard to get if you have a business license and sales tax license. I only do $500 or more purchases from them though this coming I expect the sales to much to 2K.
here is the last four years...
here is the last four years...
#11
Scrubcadet10
Scrubcadet10
that's what i figured, ThanksAnd unless you know what to look for you would just be wasting your time unless it was obvious like a spring or an anchoring shoulder that was too small .
Like all those 1/2 witts that cut open oil filters with can openers .
#12
B
bertsmobile1
Although I am buying more & more direct from China because I can not price match the big retailers on much higher discounts than me .
The trick it to buy via Made in China so you are dealing mostly with a factory directly.
Just got 500 fuel filters ( 5 different styles ) at less than $ 1 each including freight.
Got 100 air filters on their way ( 50 each of 2 styles )
Next best is Alli Baba because they have a quality assurance system where the vendors do not get paid till after you have received the goods & verified they are good
After that is Alli-Express however that is retail so the prices are substantially higher but you can buy single items .
Ebay principally gets used for price checking , for seeing if aftermarket parts are available and to dispose of surplus stuff bought via one of the three sites above
I needed a clutch for a B & S Fun cart , down here it would have cost over $ 200 for original B & S .
Bought 12 ( minimum order size ) via Ali-baba, fitted one to the customers cart, kept 2 for stock then sold the remaining 9 for 1/9th the total cost of buying the 12 on ebay so the ones I used were free
Sold the 9 in a week 2 individually and the last 7 to a cart shop . Gave them the purchase details & they were over the moon as the factory made dozens of different models many of which they could not get locally.
Amazon is for crooks so I never buy there any more apart from print on demand books.
B
bertsmobile1
I do around $ 5000 pa with Stens and about the same with RGS .A Stens account isn't that hard to get if you have a business license and sales tax license. I only do $500 or more purchases from them though this coming I expect the sales to much to 2K.
here is the last four years...
View attachment 59396
Although I am buying more & more direct from China because I can not price match the big retailers on much higher discounts than me .
The trick it to buy via Made in China so you are dealing mostly with a factory directly.
Just got 500 fuel filters ( 5 different styles ) at less than $ 1 each including freight.
Got 100 air filters on their way ( 50 each of 2 styles )
Next best is Alli Baba because they have a quality assurance system where the vendors do not get paid till after you have received the goods & verified they are good
After that is Alli-Express however that is retail so the prices are substantially higher but you can buy single items .
Ebay principally gets used for price checking , for seeing if aftermarket parts are available and to dispose of surplus stuff bought via one of the three sites above
I needed a clutch for a B & S Fun cart , down here it would have cost over $ 200 for original B & S .
Bought 12 ( minimum order size ) via Ali-baba, fitted one to the customers cart, kept 2 for stock then sold the remaining 9 for 1/9th the total cost of buying the 12 on ebay so the ones I used were free
Sold the 9 in a week 2 individually and the last 7 to a cart shop . Gave them the purchase details & they were over the moon as the factory made dozens of different models many of which they could not get locally.
Amazon is for crooks so I never buy there any more apart from print on demand books.
#13
StarTech
StarTech
My operation is too small for one thing and another is my location. For outgoing shipping all that is close is USPS office that only operates a couple hours a day open to the public.
I am fairly competitive pricing wise as I use the same suggested price lists though I must include a 1.5% upcharge to offset the fees one of the vendor charges for me to use my credit card. They offer ACH payments but so far have refused to change me over. Now the locals are pricing higher than the lists so that to my advantage.
The not switching me over is why I have been deleting my stock of their items since August. One OEM parts are actually cheaper through the secondary distributor. Gardner have lost over half of their potential sales to RBI which RBI don't mind getting.
I also was dealing with A&I [Sunbelt] but their products and service is no where near the quality that it was when Sunbelt ran the operation. If it wasn't for the Briggs parts I would have already dumped them.
For me I do buy off Amazon but usually from the same vendors that I deal with direct as they can have lower prices of Amazon then the direct prices sometimes and vice versa at other times.
Either way I should be depleting all my stock so I can retire in a few year with little on hand. I getting tired of the war with the customers and vendors.
I am fairly competitive pricing wise as I use the same suggested price lists though I must include a 1.5% upcharge to offset the fees one of the vendor charges for me to use my credit card. They offer ACH payments but so far have refused to change me over. Now the locals are pricing higher than the lists so that to my advantage.
The not switching me over is why I have been deleting my stock of their items since August. One OEM parts are actually cheaper through the secondary distributor. Gardner have lost over half of their potential sales to RBI which RBI don't mind getting.
I also was dealing with A&I [Sunbelt] but their products and service is no where near the quality that it was when Sunbelt ran the operation. If it wasn't for the Briggs parts I would have already dumped them.
For me I do buy off Amazon but usually from the same vendors that I deal with direct as they can have lower prices of Amazon then the direct prices sometimes and vice versa at other times.
Either way I should be depleting all my stock so I can retire in a few year with little on hand. I getting tired of the war with the customers and vendors.
#14
S
SamB
S
SamB
On my mowers,when the starter solenoid fails,and the OEM ones seem to be a weak point, I replace them with a common automotive one. That cures the issue pretty much forever. Usually less expensive,too.I've had 3 failures of stens solenoids this year, same part numbers as well. and one on my own equipment just the other day.
Stens 435-864
I keep several of these on hand as i service a few older kawasaki Mule's which use the solenoid shift starters.
anyway i replaced three total in 2021, one of which was on my Mule.
i repaired one mower back in the spring, March i think... that solenoid failed in July. i then went back with a OEM Kawasaki part.
i replaced another one in May, an it failed in October.
i replaced the on on my Mule in august and it failed last week.
Now the kicker is, they all failed the same way, you turn the key, and it doesn't retract or anything. just barely moves... i load tested the trigger wire by using a 12v30W tailight draw on it and it never dimmed. or flickered. So it appears the solenoid just gave up, and all in the same manner.
so it seems to be a stens/supplier issue.... so far the OEM kawasaki's are doing good.
Attachments
#15
StarTech
Now with the remote starter solenoids many OEMs uses a 80 amp version that fails due high current demands. Here I install 200 amp after market versions. Now they do only have 15% duty cycle.
StarTech
First one comment the Stens 435-864 is for the solenoid shift starters.On my mowers,when the starter solenoid fails,and the OEM ones seem to be a weak point, I replace them with a common automotive one. That cures the issue pretty much forever. Usually less expensive,too.
Now with the remote starter solenoids many OEMs uses a 80 amp version that fails due high current demands. Here I install 200 amp after market versions. Now they do only have 15% duty cycle.
#16
S
SamB
S
SamB
There is a golf cart continuous duty solenoid rated for 300 amp also used on electric winches. My current draw requirement has never been that high,but they are available,20 bucks or so.First one comment the Stens 435-864 is for the solenoid shift starters.
Now with the remote starter solenoids many OEMs uses a 80 amp version that fails due high current demands. Here I install 200 amp after market versions. Now they do only have 15% duty cycle.
#17
StarTech
StarTech
The four post ones that I just stock for my customer only me 6.65 ea. which I sell to my customers for $11 ea.
#18
S
SamB
S
SamB
That's a good price! Can't get them at the auto parts store for that amount and sure beats the OEM from the mower dealer!The four post ones that I just stock for my customer only me 6.65 ea. which I sell to my customers for $11 ea.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
I am yet to come across one that has failed for no external reason.
The most common one is an out of tune engine so the owner cranks it till the battery goes flat ignoring the 30 seconds max printed in the owners manual
the most common failure is the plastic melting allowing the internal parts to no longer make contact .
They would be better made from a thermo setting plastic ( bakelite to some ) but that would cost three times as much .
B
bertsmobile1
If OEM solenoids are failing it is usually a sign of another problemOn my mowers,when the starter solenoid fails,and the OEM ones seem to be a weak point, I replace them with a common automotive one. That cures the issue pretty much forever. Usually less expensive,too.
I am yet to come across one that has failed for no external reason.
The most common one is an out of tune engine so the owner cranks it till the battery goes flat ignoring the 30 seconds max printed in the owners manual
the most common failure is the plastic melting allowing the internal parts to no longer make contact .
They would be better made from a thermo setting plastic ( bakelite to some ) but that would cost three times as much .
#20
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
Ordered some Briggs generic 3 and 4 post solenoids a few years back Like the Stens or Oregon generic one size fits most applications style. Everyone of them failed on the 3rd engine start. 5 different mowers involved. Briggs paid the warranty to replace everyone of them.If OEM solenoids are failing it is usually a sign of another problem
I am yet to come across one that has failed for no external reason.
The most common one is an out of tune engine so the owner cranks it till the battery goes flat ignoring the 30 seconds max printed in the owners manual
the most common failure is the plastic melting allowing the internal parts to no longer make contact .
They would be better made from a thermo setting plastic ( bakelite to some ) but that would cost three times as much .
#21
S
SamB
S
SamB
I agree that is usually the case. Most mower owners are not very mechanically inclined. The pesky B&S compression release that won't work with the valves out of adjustment or it being broken will damage a solenoid and starter in short order. Overdoing the cranking can and will melt the solenoid and also melt the brush holder in the starter. Blame this on the engine and starter being 'underbuilt'. A proper starter wouldn't need a compression release. My brother's Super Bee 440 six Pack is 11.5 to 1 and the starter spins it just fine without a compression release. All my mowers are "vintage" with the oldest being 1984 and the 'new' one being a 2005. Others somewhere in between. Sometimes things just wear out. The replacement solenoids I use are metal and rated 200A and continuous duty.If OEM solenoids are failing it is usually a sign of another problem
I am yet to come across one that has failed for no external reason.
The most common one is an out of tune engine so the owner cranks it till the battery goes flat ignoring the 30 seconds max printed in the owners manual
the most common failure is the plastic melting allowing the internal parts to no longer make contact .
They would be better made from a thermo setting plastic ( bakelite to some ) but that would cost three times as much .
#22
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
VRR.DYNDNS>BIZ
Shift fork is worn and therefore does not travel far enough to engage contacts or flywheel teeth mis meshed.I've had 3 failures of stens solenoids this year, same part numbers as well. and one on my own equipment just the other day.
Stens 435-864
I keep several of these on hand as i service a few older kawasaki Mule's which use the solenoid shift starters.
anyway i replaced three total in 2021, one of which was on my Mule.
i repaired one mower back in the spring, March i think... that solenoid failed in July. i then went back with a OEM Kawasaki part.
i replaced another one in May, an it failed in October.
i replaced the on on my Mule in august and it failed last week.
Now the kicker is, they all failed the same way, you turn the key, and it doesn't retract or anything. just barely moves... i load tested the trigger wire by using a 12v30W tailight draw on it and it never dimmed. or flickered. So it appears the solenoid just gave up, and all in the same manner.
so it seems to be a stens/supplier issue.... so far the OEM kawasaki's are doing good.
#23
StarTech
StarTech
Not always the problem. For me it is the electrical contacts inside the solenoid being burned not allowing the starter motor to even get any juice. I do just replace the complete as normal the whole unit is worn enough to justify it.Shift fork is worn and therefore does not travel far enough to engage contacts or flywheel teeth mis meshed.
#24
B
bertsmobile1
Because these engines are made as cheaply as humanly possible ( cheap & nasty ) only Hondas have a fuel cut off tap
Because carb overflows have to be internal you now are set up for a petrol hydro lock .
A stronger starter will blow the head gasket & bend the con rod with a strong hydro lock.
So you fit a low strength starter .
Better quality engines ( Honda ) do not have this problem .
And of course a flimsey starter only requires a flimsey mounting point both of which reduce costs.
B
bertsmobile1
It is a chicken & egg thingI agree that is usually the case. Most mower owners are not very mechanically inclined. The pesky B&S compression release that won't work with the valves out of adjustment or it being broken will damage a solenoid and starter in short order. Overdoing the cranking can and will melt the solenoid and also melt the brush holder in the starter. Blame this on the engine and starter being 'underbuilt'. A proper starter wouldn't need a compression release. My brother's Super Bee 440 six Pack is 11.5 to 1 and the starter spins it just fine without a compression release. All my mowers are "vintage" with the oldest being 1984 and the 'new' one being a 2005. Others somewhere in between. Sometimes things just wear out. The replacement solenoids I use are metal and rated 200A and continuous duty.
Because these engines are made as cheaply as humanly possible ( cheap & nasty ) only Hondas have a fuel cut off tap
Because carb overflows have to be internal you now are set up for a petrol hydro lock .
A stronger starter will blow the head gasket & bend the con rod with a strong hydro lock.
So you fit a low strength starter .
Better quality engines ( Honda ) do not have this problem .
And of course a flimsey starter only requires a flimsey mounting point both of which reduce costs.
#25
S
SamB
S
SamB
I've purchased a number of items from DB,both mower and automotive, and have always been pleased with the quality and also the price. I would recommend them highly.Hmmm. I don't even bother replacing the solenoid as I had good luck with the starters from DB. Beside the Kawasaki starter is only $75 from them with free shipping.
#26
S
SamB
A stronger head gasket would not be a good solution either. Then ,if in the event of hydro lock,you'd get a bent rod or at the very least.a sheared flywheel key. Maybe even broken flywheel teeth.
So I guess the (cheap) weak starter is the best solution to all of the above worst case scenarios. I have fuel shut-offs on my mowers but I might forget from time to time to turn that petcock handle. Electric NC valve might be a wise addition to the ones with gravity flow tanks
S
SamB
Again,I have to totally agree with bertsmobile1. A strong starter and a poor carb needle valve + a weak design head gasket is a recipe for disaster.It is a chicken & egg thing
Because these engines are made as cheaply as humanly possible ( cheap & nasty ) only Hondas have a fuel cut off tap
Because carb overflows have to be internal you now are set up for a petrol hydro lock .
A stronger starter will blow the head gasket & bend the con rod with a strong hydro lock.
So you fit a low strength starter .
Better quality engines ( Honda ) do not have this problem .
And of course a flimsey starter only requires a flimsey mounting point both of which reduce costs.
A stronger head gasket would not be a good solution either. Then ,if in the event of hydro lock,you'd get a bent rod or at the very least.a sheared flywheel key. Maybe even broken flywheel teeth.
So I guess the (cheap) weak starter is the best solution to all of the above worst case scenarios. I have fuel shut-offs on my mowers but I might forget from time to time to turn that petcock handle. Electric NC valve might be a wise addition to the ones with gravity flow tanks