Standard vs Synthetic Oil in differential

slomo

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For the little I know about oils, I'd have to agree with Bert on everything he said.

350 Rocket's third party source is commenting on "some" similar things Bert is saying but attempting to say them in a far different way. Like the classic, that letter or number on the bottle is how fast that oil can get back up to the pump pickup screen?? WHAT?? Non of this third sources info is anything new or close to ground breaking about oil. Dude is a parrot.
 

clubairth

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There are no particles as I have strained it. Don't know what temperature it runs but it is very hot!
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.
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MParr

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Use whatever you like. I would definitely use an oil high in ZDDP (Zinc). Those high ZDDP oils tend to be some brand of racing oil. Oils to look at are Lucas Classic 20W50. Valvoline VR1, Mobil 1 15W50 (Synthetic), Hydo-Gear brand or other mower manufacturer’s oils. Some makers require a certain specific hydraulic oil.
The best recommendations come from your particular transmission’s manufacturer (Parker, Hydro-Gear, Tuff Torque).
 

enigma-2

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That is rubber hose bits flaking off getting into the oil. If heat was to do as you describe, that oil would be over 400F+. Which is hotter than any oil can stand and not deteriorate.
Its my understanding that synthetic usually turns black from several reasons, from soot particulars being carried out of the combustion cylinder or from blowby, or the reaction of the oils' additives in normal use.

 

mehan

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The manual says “Fill with SAE 20W50 motor oil, 15W50 synthetic oil or 20W50 synthetic oil (Hustler® Full Synthetic 20W50 Hydrostatic Transmission Oil is recommended).” I used a synthetic on my last mower, may do it again on this one when it’s due. Depends on what mood I’m in that day. I’m a journeyman hydraulic mechanic for the Dept of Defense..I say use whatever makes you feel better.
I agree: follow the manual. I would not trust an engine oil in this application. Viscosity may be OK but engine oil has a lot of additives which may not help in this application. Stick with transmission fluid of the recommended viscosity.
 

bertsmobile1

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What was being originally said is the best oil is what the item was designed to run on and not some new beaut formulation because it says so on the bottle.
Some times using a higher grade of oil will be beneficial, some times it will make no difference whatsoever and some times it will be detrimental .
Fluids, all fluids be they water oil or even honey follow the rules of fluid dynamics with relation to flow
and all fluids have a resistance to flow
The simple example we are all familiar with is water through a hose and the pressure loss over distance.
Run a a hose , no nozel on the end for a few minutes and see how far the water goes strait up
Then hook 2 together and do the same , then 3 if you have one and even four
The longer the hose the lower the flow rate despite the original pressure ( call it an oil pump ) remains the same and around here it is 80 psi
The lower rate of discharge is because of the internal friction of the water molecules caused by the ones nearest the wall of the hose suffering turbulant flow .
If the internal friction is lower this effect is less pronounced so more water will flow through the same space per unit of time .
And this effect is the same for any fluid from water through to bitumen and also powders if they are ground fine enough like flour or cement.

Because the molecule sizes in synthetic or even semi synthetics is both smaller and more consistant then they flow faster under pressure in confined spaces and in particular when being pressurised or forced through a constricted space
Inside your hydro the only reason it moves is because the resistance of the oil to flowing between the rotating cylinder block and the stationary kidney plate is higher than the resistance from the piston pushing the swash plate.
So when designed to run on synthetics the space between these two surfaces must be either closer or rougher.
And there is no seal between the pistons and the cylinders they run in either so again the resistance of the oil to flow around the side of the piston is all that is making a seal and preventing all of the oil flowing around the piston rather than make the piston move.
Most of the heat heat energy that is converted from the mechanical energy is derrived from this internal resistance to flow

I hope this is clearer than the previous that was written off the top of ones head

What is written on the web should always be taken at face value because I could be a retired 70 year old graduate with multiple degrees & diplomas who worked all his life in the oil industry ( and I am not ) or a 10 year old with advanced internet search skills who gets their jollies by pretending to be the above and fooling people or any where in between .
So Rocket is more than welcome to cross post everything written in order to validate what was posted with other electrons in cyber space that he believes in .
The fact that he felt compelled to cross post tells me either I failed to properly express myself (and yes it could have been better ) or he does not have sufficient understanding to evaluate it himself so sought the council of others whom he has faith in

Knowledge is some thing that is acquired over time and never from a single identifiable source and relying on any single source that can not be verrified as a primary source is always fraught with dangers as every step away from the primary source you get the facts get closer to opinion.
But to verrify you need to understand the basic principles be that mathematically or practically and with oils it is all about the molecules , the size shape distribution and valencies and the way they interact with each other & the materials they come in contact with
 

350Rocket

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For the little I know about oils, I'd have to agree with Bert on everything he said.

350 Rocket's third party source is commenting on "some" similar things Bert is saying but attempting to say them in a far different way. Like the classic, that letter or number on the bottle is how fast that oil can get back up to the pump pickup screen?? WHAT?? Non of this third sources info is anything new or close to ground breaking about oil. Dude is a parrot.
Just looking up the oil capacity for my snowblower and noticed on the maintenance tips tag.... viscosity is not even mentioned. The most important thing it says is "synthetic is recommended below 32f" which is what the conditions will be basically all winter. I wish you guys would just do some actual research. This information is available all over the place. Good luck finding anything that agrees with what Bert said, from a reputable source. This place is honestly mind baffling.
I'm not sure which part of his comments you're mentioning, because it was such a huge manifesto full of misinformation, but anyway just because you trust someone's knowledge in one area doesn't mean you should blindly trust them in another.
Oh and here is another chart just like most engine manufacturers have in their owners manual... proving that viscosity is not as critical as most think. And I reiterate that synthetic oil is not thinner just because it's synthetic.
 

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350Rocket

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I agree: follow the manual. I would not trust an engine oil in this application. Viscosity may be OK but engine oil has a lot of additives which may not help in this application. Stick with transmission fluid of the recommended viscosity.
But it calls for engine oil, so there really isn't a correct "transmission oil" for it. They want you to use 20w50 or 15w50 synthetic.
 

350Rocket

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What was being originally said is the best oil is what the item was designed to run on and not some new beaut formulation because it says so on the bottle.
Some times using a higher grade of oil will be beneficial, some times it will make no difference whatsoever and some times it will be detrimental .
Fluids, all fluids be they water oil or even honey follow the rules of fluid dynamics with relation to flow
and all fluids have a resistance to flow
The simple example we are all familiar with is water through a hose and the pressure loss over distance.
Run a a hose , no nozel on the end for a few minutes and see how far the water goes strait up
Then hook 2 together and do the same , then 3 if you have one and even four
The longer the hose the lower the flow rate despite the original pressure ( call it an oil pump ) remains the same and around here it is 80 psi
The lower rate of discharge is because of the internal friction of the water molecules caused by the ones nearest the wall of the hose suffering turbulant flow .
If the internal friction is lower this effect is less pronounced so more water will flow through the same space per unit of time .
And this effect is the same for any fluid from water through to bitumen and also powders if they are ground fine enough like flour or cement.

Because the molecule sizes in synthetic or even semi synthetics is both smaller and more consistant then they flow faster under pressure in confined spaces and in particular when being pressurised or forced through a constricted space
Inside your hydro the only reason it moves is because the resistance of the oil to flowing between the rotating cylinder block and the stationary kidney plate is higher than the resistance from the piston pushing the swash plate.
So when designed to run on synthetics the space between these two surfaces must be either closer or rougher.
And there is no seal between the pistons and the cylinders they run in either so again the resistance of the oil to flow around the side of the piston is all that is making a seal and preventing all of the oil flowing around the piston rather than make the piston move.
Most of the heat heat energy that is converted from the mechanical energy is derrived from this internal resistance to flow

I hope this is clearer than the previous that was written off the top of ones head

What is written on the web should always be taken at face value because I could be a retired 70 year old graduate with multiple degrees & diplomas who worked all his life in the oil industry ( and I am not ) or a 10 year old with advanced internet search skills who gets their jollies by pretending to be the above and fooling people or any where in between .
So Rocket is more than welcome to cross post everything written in order to validate what was posted with other electrons in cyber space that he believes in .
The fact that he felt compelled to cross post tells me either I failed to properly express myself (and yes it could have been better ) or he does not have sufficient understanding to evaluate it himself so sought the council of others whom he has faith in

Knowledge is some thing that is acquired over time and never from a single identifiable source and relying on any single source that can not be verrified as a primary source is always fraught with dangers as every step away from the primary source you get the facts get closer to opinion.
But to verrify you need to understand the basic principles be that mathematically or practically and with oils it is all about the molecules , the size shape distribution and valencies and the way they interact with each other & the materials they come in contact with
Yes knowledge comes from years of experience or reading. I'm not claiming to be an expert but years of reading various sources (mostly bobistheoilguy as it is actually run by a chemical engineer of some kind and has a great FAQ section) I wanted to make sure I wasn't going crazy since almost everything you said went against everything I had ever read except for myths from old farmers or mechanics. I tried my best, and double checked my sources of information, but I can't make you do the same.
 

enigma-2

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Just looking up the oil capacity for my snowblower and noticed on the maintenance tips tag.... viscosity is not even mentioned. The most important thing it says is "synthetic is recommended below 32f" which is what the conditions will be basically all winter.
This got me curious. I checked my Ariens LCT snowblower engine manual and they state that we should use detergent oil,, with API viscosity and service classification of SJ. No mention of use of synthetic.

Synthetic is superior in really cold climates, like Canada or Northern states where it hit -20°. Around here we generally see +5° or warmer where Dino juice works just fine. (I use Mobile 1 myself. But I break in all my engines with conventional oil. An engineer at Briggs told me that conventional oil is needed during break in to seat the rings properly. No matter what the OM states. Always followed his advice).
 
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