Export thread

SOLVED: NOT INTERESTED IN WARRANTY ADVISE-27hp 49T877 V-twin rod bearing oil

#1

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

does anyone know how the rod bearings are designed get oil on a 27hp 49T877 series Vtwin?
there's pressure passages from the pump ported thru the case that flows thru the cam to the crank main journals and there are 2 oil holes in the crank rod journal but they dead end there and do not connect to the mains on the crank?
cant for the life of me see how the rods get oiled on the big end,
this is a new motor had a knocking rod and I'm wondering is it possible the crank wasnt cross drilled from the mains to the rod journal and they sent it like this from the factory? or is it not pressure fed to the rods? anyone have a repair manual that shows the lubrication pathway?
49T877-0010-G1 27HP commercial turf


#2

B

Bertrrr

Wouldn't surprise me if they're not cross drilled in todays age of quality control. If it's got an oil pump it has to be a pressurized system and getting oil though the crankshaft ports up to the rod bearings all the way up into the piston pin. Only way to verify is to pull it apart though


#3

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Bertrrr said:
Wouldn't surprise me if they're not cross drilled in todays age of quality control. If it's got an oil pump it has to be a pressurized system and getting oil though the crankshaft ports up to the rod bearings all the way up into the piston pin. Only way to verify is to pull it apart though
Click to expand...
It's apart and the crank is definitely not drilled from the rod journal to the mains.

20230616_112555.jpg


#4

StarTech

StarTech

Rotate the crankshaft 180 degrees.
1686935682926.png
Here is an image of the crankshaft itself with line showing oil passage to the rod journals
1686935945520.png


#5

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

StarTech said:
Rotate the crankshaft 180 degrees.

Here is an image of the crankshaft itself with line showing oil passage to the rod journals
Click to expand...
Thanks, On this crank, there's absolutely no passage from the rod journal to the main on the pto side, had a feeling it should have been cross drilled but it wasn't.
Must be a factory flaw and that's why the rod was knocking.


#6

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

I pulled an identical motor apart... the oil passage to the rod journal is right where it supposed to be.
Evidently someone was asleep in the crank drilling dept.
This crank has no oil passage to the rod journal.

20230616_141832.jpg

20230616_141902.jpg


20230616_141912.jpg


#7

B

Bertrrr

Wow , unbelievable - looks like you're goin to have to replace the crankshaft - that's the kinda luck I usually have - I'd be interested in how you move forward from this debacle -


#8

S

slomo

Just drill it out and polish her over. You have a perfect picture of what it should look like.

It's not the space shuttle..........


#9

B

Bertrrr

Drillin a Crankshaft might be a little tougher than it looks


#10

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Cast, shouldn't be bad drilling, need a .210" bit long enough to reach the rod journal.
And a good way to clamp it at the proper angle....but that's what it's looking like.


#11

G

GrumpyCat

If one hole is missing then what about the passages from that hole to the rod bearings' holes?

I think one should be talking to Kawasaki about a new engine in exchange for deleting this thread.


#12

B

bertsmobile1

If it is supposed to be crossdrilled and it is not them that is a maunfacturing defect and is warranty no matter how old the engine is.
The factory can not honour it because there is no way, you the customer could have done a Penn & Teller and made the oil holes vanish
I am assuming that you have put an air ile / oil can to the holes & verified that they are blind .
In this case take it back
However you need to check the specification of your engine
There is "pressure fed crank" and "full pressure lubrication" they are not the same thing


#13

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

Hey guys,, Just to clarify, I bought this in an auction parts lot with other motors. It was already knocking way before I got it
I'm not the consumer.
I assume they already got a warranty exchange and I'm not looking for any compensation from anyone.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

Well that is a totally different story
In that case , if the crank is otherwise in good shape, take it to a jobbing engineering workshop & get them to drill the cross drilling
Water jet drilling would be the preferred method considering it is a crankshaft and the hole is at an acute angle to the ground bush area .
Or just replace the crank with a new one


#15

S

slomo

If the part is no longer made, go for it. Nothing to lose.


#16

StarTech

StarTech

bertsmobile1 said:
If it is supposed to be crossdrilled and it is not them that is a maunfacturing defect and is warranty no matter how old the engine is.
The factory can not honour it because there is no way, you the customer could have done a Penn & Teller and made the oil holes vanish
I am assuming that you have put an air ile / oil can to the holes & verified that they are blind .
In this case take it back
However you need to check the specification of your engine
There is "pressure fed crank" and "full pressure lubrication" they are not the same thing
Click to expand...
1686997666242.png


#17

S

sessman55

No. Drilling the crank is definitely NOT the correct course of action. Contacting the B & S rep is the way to go. Allowing B & S to trace the issue back to its source will address the issue properly. And, you’ll get a new engine for your efforts.


#18

B

bertsmobile1

sessman55 said:
No. Drilling the crank is definitely NOT the correct course of action. Contacting the B & S rep is the way to go. Allowing B & S to trace the issue back to its source will address the issue properly. And, you’ll get a new engine for your efforts.
Click to expand...
If you go back & read the whole post you will note this was purchased in job lot of broken mowers at auction
So the inference would be that a warranty claim had already been made on it and what was supposed to go for scrap metal managed to end up at auction .
These have become very poplar down here as importers have no repair facility so they recoup some of the warranty losses by selling the returned goods by the pallet load as "defective returns " if the auction house is honest or "untested " if the auction house is less than honest .
some of the electronics geeks make a fortune repairing defective TV's many of which have nothing more wrong than a loose card or a badly soldered joint
A friend got a whole pallet load that had nothing more wrong than blown fuses which are now inside where the owner can not access them


#19

R

RevB

At this point, if it's a newish engine, I'd push for a whole new engine. Screw you having to fix their mistake. Get on the phone and send them a video of the rotating crank.....


#20

R

RevB

RevB said:
At this point, if it's a newish engine, I'd push for a whole new engine. Screw you having to fix their mistake. Get on the phone and send them a video of the rotating crank.....
Click to expand...
If you are post 18 and that info was divulged in post 13.....kinda important to lay it all out in post 1.


#21

B

bertsmobile1

RevB said:
At this point, if it's a newish engine, I'd push for a whole new engine. Screw you having to fix their mistake. Get on the phone and send them a video of the rotating crank.....
Click to expand...
Please read the whole f'ing thread before posting a reply
It is not a bloody new engine it is a job lot of crap engines bought at auction as a pallet of stuffed engines for spares .
So no NOT NEW


#22

M

mmoffitt

WTF! (Womens Tennis Federation)


#23

M

mcspeed

@BurntFingers, keep us posted on the drilling. IMO seems like an easy fix providing the longitudinal oil passage is there. If it isn’t, will still be easy but not a fix LOL.


#24

Northshoredoug

Northshoredoug

bertsmobile1 said:
Please read the whole f'ing thread before posting a reply
It is not a bloody new engine it is a job lot of crap engines bought at auction as a pallet of stuffed engines for spares .
So no NOT NEW
Click to expand...
Unfortunately some people can't stay on topic!
The topic is ROD BEARING OILING on a 49xxxx series, I don't know why people
mcspeed said:
@BurntFingers, keep us posted on the drilling. IMO seems like an easy fix providing the longitudinal oil passage is there. If it isn’t, will still be easy but not a fix LOL.
Click to expand...
That crank is on the shelf for the time being but I'll definitely drill that oil passage..
the motors reassembled with a good crank and rods and already put into service.


#25

C

Cajun power

couple of thoughts.

considering the two crank oil channels were not drilled, there is a non zero chance that if you did a DIY drill out or water jet the crank will not be balanced...no? I've never done the machining myself, but it would appear that removing that much material in two directions on the same "plane" would necessitate some kind of crank balancing work afterwards, no? just intuitively, that looks like at least about 2 ounces of metal that would be removed if you did the drill out. two ounces is probably going to cause problems with bearing at 3600 rpm..I would imagine. I dunno...not a machinist...but it would seem there is more to this job than just drilling it out.

also this: there does appear to be some crank wear likely due to lack of lubrication (not lube channels).that dull gray streak looks like a red flag to me...I'm not aware of how this crank is built or how one would relap even if that is possible...


#26

StarTech

StarTech

Just easier to accept that this happen during the crankshaft and somehow made it pass QA inspection. As op said he just installed a good crankshaft so the engine in back operation. A DIY type repair is going possibly throw the crankshaft out balance but it may be already out balance from the lack of the cross drill hole., just depends what got done at the factory.

None of us has the equipment to do this properly other than the crankshaft factory or a machine shop that does crankshaft regrinds.

Sometimes it costs less to just to replace the item. Custom work is expensive. Otherwords just bite the bullet and go on.

Its like the customer yesterday that was insisting on his vertical Himore pressure pump to be rebuilt. Well my cost on the needed parts were more than his cost for a complete new pump that was an actual upgrade to what currently had. After pointed this out he opted for the new pump.

It is the first I have seen check valves melted in one. Still thinking on what might had caused this. I do know one complaint was the unloader was working as it kills the engine when he releases the wand trigger. I thinking that the pump just over heated itself.


#27

B

biggertv

Bertrrr said:
Drillin a Crankshaft might be a little tougher than it looks
Click to expand...
It will piss you off how Soft they are. I once installed a Roll Pin in place of a worn out keyway...Thru the Flywheel. Cheap Harbor Freight drill bit went through that Crank like Butter. For the Oil Passage, simply dremel a small area enough to drill the correct angle. With Oil in the passage it may be less Unbalanced and as Taryl says and we all know...It ain't the Space Sh....


#28

T

TobyU

Personally I wouldn't spend the money for a new crank and I would just drill it and chamfer the hole a little bit.
I don't think it's going to make much difference on the vibrations. You really think they take too much concern or time to balance these cranks on any really high-end, recently calibrated machine?? To these things are low performance little turds and that's how they get treated by the manufacturers.

You could possibly check with a couple of local machine shops to see if they can mount such a small crank in their engine balancing machine just to check the balance because I would think you'd be able to get someone to balance it for 20 or 30 bucks. Heck, let them drill the hole out too.

The rest of the crank doesn't look anywhere near damaged like they get when they run low on oil and snap a rod so that might benefit from mild polish or buffing but that looks to be about it.


#29

J

jbugj

Keep in mind that drilling may throw everything out of balance, and might have a lot of vibration. I would have to assume that even small engine cranks are balanced when manufactured, and if so, would have been balanced with all the mass of the hole that should have been drilled. Drilling it out is the option, but be aware of likely vibration. (edit - was posted in another comment also)


#30

S

SamB

StarTech said:
Just easier to accept that this happen during the crankshaft and somehow made it pass QA inspection. As op said he just installed a good crankshaft so the engine in back operation. A DIY type repair is going possibly throw the crankshaft out balance but it may be already out balance from the lack of the cross drill hole., just depends what got done at the factory.

None of us has the equipment to do this properly other than the crankshaft factory or a machine shop that does crankshaft regrinds.

Sometimes it costs less to just to replace the item. Custom work is expensive. Otherwords just bite the bullet and go on.

Its like the customer yesterday that was insisting on his vertical Himore pressure pump to be rebuilt. Well my cost on the needed parts were more than his cost for a complete new pump that was an actual upgrade to what currently had. After pointed this out he opted for the new pump.

It is the first I have seen check valves melted in one. Still thinking on what might had caused this. I do know one complaint was the unloader was working as it kills the engine when he releases the wand trigger. I thinking that the pump just over heated itself.
Click to expand...
IMHO, another point to consider is that the engine this crank came out of is back in service with a replacement crank.
Since there is no engine to put this crank into, what's the point of wasting any time or effort on it.


Footer Links 1

Top