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simplicity champion consumers edition PTO shut down then engine quits

#1



unclecrash

Was loving my simplicity consumers edition champion till this last week cant figure out what is going on first pto shut off drove home replaced it. Thought all was good went cutting again only to find out after about ten 50 foot runs the blades shut down and seconds later the engine quits, I can put the parking brake on open the bars and try to restart noticed for the first couple trys it would just click then seem tto catch and restart run 2 more strips of 50 foot and die in the same spot mower seems to run all day without the pto engaged. Also sat it on the drive way with no load on the mower blades running and it still shuts down blades first then the engine im wondering if there is some sort of kill that is trigging this from overheat i think she is getting tired but no smoke running synthetic oil just put new plugs took the top off and made sure the engine was clean and still cant figure out what it is thought it might be the white wire i found broke or removed going to the engine plug but found it was the seat switch as when i stuffed it in the mower would die with it in or out even when i pushed the switch in, any ideas Thanks Dave she been running strong since my first post a couple or so years ago.


#2

R

Rivets

First thing you need to check is battery voltage. Electric PTO‘s need fully charged batteries to operate properly. If the battery voltage is below 12 VDC charge the battery and check the charging system, should be charging over 13 VDC. If you have a fully charged battery and a charging system that is working properly, test run the mower. If it quits, immediately test battery voltage. If battery voltage is again low, you need to have it checked, may no longer take a charge.


#3



unclecrash

I am charging it now after i just adjusted the clutch to see if that was it, about 10 minutes in it quit again. Will check the battery voltage, how do i check the charging system thanks Dave


#4

R

Rivets

If you post all numbers from the engine, I should be able to find you a service manual with instructions on how to test the charging system.


#5



unclecrash

i do not believe there are any on it bought at auction all i know its a kohler 20 hp unless there is a number stamped in the block because the labels are pealed off the cover.


#6

R

Rivets

Only ID would be on a black and silver tag on the shroud. Take a couple of pictures of the engine, maybe we will be able to identify it.


#7



unclecrash

Sorry guys been down with covid bro brought it home just got back on the mower my battery is holding strong that is not it today i cut off the plug going into the motor as the purple and orange fell right off, butt spliced it together thought it was the problem but after running for 15 minutes hard it does the same first blades shut down then the mower. Then it will refire and mow a couple strips and do it again the mower will sit and run all day with out the blades going any thoughts where to check next. I thought maybe the pto was out of adjustment so tightens it down to.016 still quiting.


#8

B

bertsmobile1

What is happening is exactly what Rivets said back in post # 2
The charging system is not keeping up with the drain the clutch is putting on the battery and when the voltage gets too low the blades shut off then the engine shuts off.
Please answer his question so we can help you


#9



unclecrash

bertsmobile1 said:
What is happening is exactly what Rivets said back in post # 2
The charging system is not keeping up with the drain the clutch is putting on the battery and when the voltage gets too low the blades shut off then the engine shuts off.
Please answer his question so we can help you
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how can that be after coming home i ran it on the drive with the blades on battery is holding at 13.3 volt not seeing it drain had a volt meter on it. Here is my past thread https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/simplicity-20-50-kohler-1694455-working-the-bugs-out.43597/


#10



unclecrash

hlw49 said:
Some people think this is 20 questions won't post what they have, Need to know model type and code number of the engine, and model and serial no. of the mower as well.
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i just said if you know how to read there IS NO LABELS ON THE MOTOR, Im on a new computer and dont even know how to post pics yet off my new phone so take a chill pill or go away dont need your bs comments like im not tryin g to give you info .


#11



unclecrash

hlw49 said:
Some people think this is 20 questions won't post what they have, Need to know model type and code number of the engine, and model and serial no. of the mower as well.
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who pissed in your cheerio's dont need to hear your crap 20 questions give me a brake you sound like an ass hole, Who is just trying to start shit and piss people off. Please stay off my thread if you dont have nothing good to add.


#12



unclecrash

unclecrash said:
how can that be after coming home i ran it on the drive with the blades on battery is holding at 13.3 volt not seeing it drain had a volt meter on it. Here is my past thread https://www.lawnmowerforum.com/threads/simplicity-20-50-kohler-1694455-working-the-bugs-out.43597/
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what question you want me to answer the TAG ON THE MOTOR IS MISSING, MY VOLTAGE IS 13.3 AFTER I MOWED FOR 10 OR 15 MINUTES BATTERY IS FINE!!


#13



unclecrash

hlw49 said:
Not Trying to start anything just was trying to get all the info I could to try and help. Will not stoop to your level of name calling have a good evening.
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you shit comment about asking 20 questions was really not needed, that is what people do on these forums ask questions. So get to steppin peace out .


#14



unclecrash

bertsmobile1 said:
What is happening is exactly what Rivets said back in post # 2
The charging system is not keeping up with the drain the clutch is putting on the battery and when the voltage gets too low the blades shut off then the engine shuts off.
Please answer his question so we can help you
Click to expand...
I posted the battery is holding strong charged left the house at 13.3 come home 13.3 now would i not have got home to find the battery had collapsed if that was the case ,just asking dont know the electric crap at all that is why i ask many questions but some idiot dont like questions i guess. If im incorrect please let me know how to run a test under load i had it running in the drive all day with out the pto on should i run the pto and hold a voltage meter on the battery as i figured if it was at the charge i left at 13.3 figured it was good when i got home at 13.3 and i even checked it after running for a long time with no drop from just the engine.


#15

B

bertsmobile1

Well this will be the last you will hear from me.
If people what to have abusive hissy fits then there are lots of nice people who are a pleasure to converse with to occupy my free time while I check parts books or write customer invoices .
Your symptoms are 100% compatiable with a bad battery , bad charging system including bad battery cables
A battery can have 1,000,000 but if there is not sufficient active plate surface area, it will not crank the engine


#16

R

Rivets

All I asked was for you to help yourself by helping us identify your engine. If it has no engine tag, then a unit model number would give us a starting point. I think I read somewhere it might be a Kohler, but different Kohler engines have different charging systems, so we need to know which engine you have, to help you. Your language and attitude doesn’t help your cause so I hope you have better luck on a different forum, because you’ve burnt every bridge you might have had by your comments. Many of us are on different forums so we’ll be watching for you. Your language and attitude will be easy to spot, as well as your lack of personality toward those who were trying to help you. We’ll call you out very quickly. Forgot to tell checking battery load tests, which the engine is running, is very easy for those of us who understand electricity and how a batteries work. Taught my 10th grade students how to do it, so someone with your vast expertise should be able to figure it out. Gook Luck, you’ll need it.


#17



unclecrash

Rivets said:
All I asked was for you to help yourself by helping us identify your engine. If it has no engine tag, then a unit model number would give us a starting point. I think I read somewhere it might be a Kohler, but different Kohler engines have different charging systems, so we need to know which engine you have, to help you. Your language and attitude doesn’t help your cause so I hope you have better luck on a different forum, because you’ve burnt every bridge you might have had by your comments. Many of us are on different forums so we’ll be watching for you. Your language and attitude will be easy to spot, as well as your lack of personality toward those who were trying to help you. We’ll call you out very quickly. Forgot to tell checking battery load tests, which the engine is running, is very easy for those of us who understand electricity and how a batteries work. Taught my 10th grade students how to do it, so someone with your vast expertise should be able to figure it out. Gook Luck, you’ll need it.
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another who skips over the pertinent info get a life cry baby, i posted the old thread with the mower numbers champion 1694455 have a nice life all ready figured it out you are all way off base, you actually think i would post to another forum not as dumb as you sound ,there are pleanty of others out there willing to help you must not of seen the dipshit who was stirring the piss pot youtube you people are so stuch on your selfs berts mobile what a joke probably the guy i here about all the time doing bad bad work


#18

R

Rivets

You’re the one who seems to be crying the most. Now your say I’m supposed to know you posted numbers on another thread???? If you think we’re all idiots here, you must be a bigger fool than we are for joining and asking questions here??? Why would you do that??? I hope you continue with your rant, as this is fun watching someone make a complete fool out of himself. I don’t even have to do much to keep you on my fishing line and I’m only using 2lb. test. As I used to tell my students about dealing with customers, “He who shouts the loudest and won’t listen to you, is probably hiding something or knows he wrong, but his ego won’t let him admit it”. Let them rant, and enjoy watching the hole get deeper and deeper, but try not to smile, they’ll only get louder.


#19

StarTech

StarTech

First not all of us know what is posted in other threads. I for one don't keep up with every thread as I simply don't the time and people like is the reason I am just about quit posting anything here.

The 1694455 did not comes with a 20hp Kohler but instead came with a 20hp Briggs 358777-0280-E1 which a v-twin which has a similar looking air filter box as a Kohler Command v-twin.

Now if it does have a Kohler CV20 or similar it is a transplanted engine and I do hate it when the label goes missing. This is why I records every customer equipment numbers as I have seen labels to go awol between time they are in the shop.

As for the shutdown both PTO and fuel solenoid operates off the same ignition switch circuit and be as simple as a bad wire terminal loosing contact since they use F56 terminals.

In this case the wiring schematics for the 1694455 are dealer only accessible. I could post them but the flame throwing here has cause me not to be willing to do that.


#20



unclecrash

StarTech said:
First not all of us know what is posted in other threads. I for one don't keep up with every thread as I simply don't the time and people like is the reason I am just about quit posting anything here.

The 1694455 did not comes with a 20hp Kohler but instead came with a 20hp Briggs 358777-0280-E1 which a v-twin which has a similar looking air filter box as a Kohler Command v-twin.

Now if it does have a Kohler CV20 or similar it is a transplanted engine and I do hate it when the label goes missing. This is why I records every customer equipment numbers as I have seen labels to go awol between time they are in the shop.

As for the shutdown both PTO and fuel solenoid operates off the same ignition switch circuit and be as simple as a bad wire terminal loosing contact since they use F56 terminals.

In this case the wiring schematics for the 1694455 are dealer only accessible. I could post them but the flame throwing here has cause me not to be willing to do that.
Click to expand...


#21



unclecrash

flame my nuts that was not necessary , everyone in here is so hell bent on the state of affairs in the world you totally skip over shit your post was the most informative and sorry dont need your schematics as i have them. like i stated once again you read between the lines as i posted the link right HERE IN THIS THREAD but you neglected to see them for what ever reason, my problem is solved nice try though im a mechanic my self and smarter than most these a holes , after stating that the battery checked out fine why no one tell me to check the resistance of the clutch OH SHIT NO PAINS NO BRAINS AND THE RIVET ASS CALLS HIMSELF A TEACHER LMMFAO. They were all so hell bent on trying to lecture me on my potty mouth when they should have told the other ass haT WHO STARTED THIS CRAP WITH ME TO STICK IT, HE WAS VERY QUICK TO CHECK OUT TOO EMBARRASSED OF HIS STUPID POST HLW49 YOUR A STRAIGHT UP DICK HEAD THE KIND OF GUY I USED TO SMACK FOR LESS!!!


#22

R

Rivets

So I guess my 2lb. test line is still holding. You’re starting to shout louder, notice all caps and poor language. Looks like my recent observation might be coming true. Badmouthing members on this forum only shows use that you’re not a smart as you want us to think you are. If you’re such a good mechanic, you should at least be able to tell us what engine you without the ID tag. A Courage, Command, K-Series, etc. plus a basic model number by cross referencing HP. A good small engine mechanic can tell by looking at the engine. Model and spec. numbers tell us the differences in the different engines as specified by the equipment manufacturer. I can tell you this, clutch manufacturers do not publish electrical specifications on their products. If you get lucky when you contact them, you might get that info depending on who you talk to. You don’t even tell us the manufacturer of the clutch, could be Warner, Extreme, Rotary, Stens, Bornag, Norman, etc. each manufacturer has different specs. Maybe this answers your question, but I’m sure you’ll tell me I’m wrong again, then I’ll switch to a 1 lb. tippet.


#23

StarTech

StarTech

What you got to remember is that many mechanics are great when it comes to the mechanical stuff but have no idea what they are doing when comes to electrical and electronics. Now I was trained in electronics and electrical with the mechanical side self taught. even after 12 yrs of working on these engines I still pull the manuals for specs. Far too many to remember like the back on my hand.

I got a brother that is a heavy equipment mechanic but is totally lost when comes to the wiring of them. He can't find his way out a wet paper bag with both ends open. He has this attitude that he knows it all. Well when it to electrical I can run rings around him which like you gets pissed off when I try to help him out. I have learned just don't even bother to try to help any more. All can do is just sit back and watch him waste his money over something all he had to do was a few electrical checks. The last job I was pull in on he had already spent nearly $400 when it was only a fifty cent terminal that was bad.

As I said I came in late to this thread but had to verify what the equipment was so I could even pull the manuals on this end. As I said the electrical information (schematics) are flagged as dealer only item on the Power Portal.

1629575460888.png

IF you guys were on the Professional forum that I administrate all parties showing their backsides would be kick off; after a fair warning. The offending posts would be deleted no matter what. I don't put with the BS at all over there at all.


#24



unclecrash

StarTech said:
What you got to remember is that many mechanics are great when it comes to the mechanical stuff but have no idea what they are doing when comes to electrical and electronics. Now I was trained in electronics and electrical with the mechanical side self taught. even after 12 yrs of working on these engines I still pull the manuals for specs. Far too many to remember like the back on my hand.

I got a brother that is a heavy equipment mechanic but is totally lost when comes to the wiring of them. He can't find his way out a wet paper bag with both ends open. He has this attitude that he knows it all. Well when it to electrical I can run rings around him which like you gets pissed off when I try to help him out. I have learned just don't even bother to try to help any more. All can do is just sit back and watch him waste his money over something all he had to do was a few electrical checks. The last job I was pull in on he had already spent nearly $400 when it was only a fifty cent terminal that was bad.

As I said I came in late to this thread but had to verify what the equipment was so I could even pull the manuals on this end. As I said the electrical information (schematics) are flagged as dealer only item on the Power Portal.

View attachment 58002

IF you guys were on the Professional forum that I administrate all parties showing their backsides would be kick off. I don't put with the BS at all over there at all.
Click to expand...
no see that is where you are wrong im not pissed off cause your trying to help i get pissed at the stupid comments you people have to bring that is it. not for the good help no one needs to lecture people and say stupid shit like people are flame throwing that does not help when people are all ready upset at another bozo who started the crap with me it just adds to the bullshit and makes one like me think much less of you!! Not too hard to figure out.
Rivets said:
So I guess my 2lb. test line is still holding. You’re starting to shout louder, notice all caps and poor language. Looks like my recent observation might be coming true. Badmouthing members on this forum only shows use that you’re not a smart as you want us to think you are. If you’re such a good mechanic, you should at least be able to tell us what engine you without the ID tag. A Courage, Command, K-Series, etc. plus a basic model number by cross referencing HP. A good small engine mechanic can tell by looking at the engine. Model and spec. numbers tell us the differences in the different engines as specified by the equipment manufacturer. I can tell you this, clutch manufacturers do not publish electrical specifications on their products. If you get lucky when you contact them, you might get that info depending on who you talk to. You don’t even tell us the manufacturer of the clutch, could be Warner, Extreme, Rotary, Stens, Bornag, Norman, etc. each manufacturer has different specs. Maybe this answers your question, but I’m sure you’ll tell me I’m wrong again, then I’ll switch to a 1 lb. tippet.
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shove it where the sun dont shine ass hole dont need your bullshit go back to school and figure out how to fix your brain to help instead of lecture people your, your help tactics are ignorant, try helping someone instead of preaching your bullshit you sound like peebody lmmfao at you.


#25



unclecrash

Rivets said:
So I guess my 2lb. test line is still holding. You’re starting to shout louder, notice all caps and poor language. Looks like my recent observation might be coming true. Badmouthing members on this forum only shows use that you’re not a smart as you want us to think you are. If you’re such a good mechanic, you should at least be able to tell us what engine you without the ID tag. A Courage, Command, K-Series, etc. plus a basic model number by cross referencing HP. A good small engine mechanic can tell by looking at the engine. Model and spec. numbers tell us the differences in the different engines as specified by the equipment manufacturer. I can tell you this, clutch manufacturers do not publish electrical specifications on their products. If you get lucky when you contact them, you might get that info depending on who you talk to. You don’t even tell us the manufacturer of the clutch, could be Warner, Extreme, Rotary, Stens, Bornag, Norman, etc. each manufacturer has different specs. Maybe this answers your question, but I’m sure you’ll tell me I’m wrong again, then I’ll switch to a 1 lb. tippet.
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your 2lb test must be choking off your nuts lmmfao better remove it you cry baby hey maybe a rivet is your repair for everything sure seems that way as you didnt have a clue when it came to the right diagnosis on my mower you remind me of my doctor what an ass he is , come there tell him the problem gives you a med send you home come back for the next five months with the same problem as he ignores what is said ,then they finally start bashing you cause they are so stupid like you and cant figure it out so they start hazing and trying to push ya away lmmfao what a poindexter you sound like go retrain your brains as its lacking oxygen from you choking your nuts off with your silly string.


#26



unclecrash

hey douche bag its all ready fixed just goes to show how stupid you sound.


#27

StarTech

StarTech

unclecrash said:
no see that is where you are wrong im not pissed off cause your trying to help i get pissed at the stupid comments you people have to bring that is it. not for the good help no one needs to lecture people and say stupid shit like people are flame throwing that does not help when people are all ready upset at another bozo who started the crap with me it just adds to the bullshit and makes one like me think much less of you!! Not too hard to figure out.
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No problem I just set you handle to ignore so I don't see your posts any more. That solve the problem on my end as your attitude stinks and I don't want my kids seeing your posts.


#28



unclecrash

StarTech said:
No problem I just set you handle to ignore so I don't see your posts any more. That solve the problem on my end as your attitude stinks and I don't want my kids seeing your posts.
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suck it ass wipe you just come here to fuck with me just like the rest after telling your dumb ass i all ready fixed it you posted links just to make you look good sorry stuff your links in your ass i have asked to be deleted but hey the dumb fucks want to keep hazing people so here we go fuck you all right in your ass you little butt hurt bitches


#29



unclecrash

StarTech said:
No problem I just set you handle to ignore so I don't see your posts any more. That solve the problem on my end as your attitude stinks and I don't want my kids seeing your posts.
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and that just shows your iggnorance as my last comment was not directed at you it was for the dumb school boy teacher.


#30



unclecrash

unclecrash said:
no see that is where you are wrong im not pissed off cause your trying to help i get pissed at the stupid comments you people have to bring that is it. not for the good help no one needs to lecture people and say stupid shit like people are flame throwing that does not help when people are all ready upset at another bozo who started the crap with me it just adds to the bullshit and makes one like me think much less of you!! Not too hard to figure out.

shove it where the sun dont shine ass hole dont need your bullshit go back to school and figure out how to fix your brain to help instead of lecture people your, your help tactics are ignorant, try helping someone instead of preaching your bullshit you sound like peebody lmmfao at you.
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#31



unclecrash

IM TRYING REALLY HARD TO GET MY ACCOUNT SHUT DOWN , BUT IT SEEMS YOU FUCK STAINS MUST HAVE RUN OFF MOST THERE PEOPLE AS I HAVE SEEN A THREAD WHERE LOTS ARE WANTING THERE ACCOUNTS CLOSED GO FIGURE WITH HELP LIKE THIS NO WONDER THEY WILL NOT BUT AN EASY BUTTON TO DELETE AN ACCOUNT THIS USED TO BE A DECENT PLACE FOR INFO NOT ANYMORE TOO MANY FUCK STAINS IN HERE WHO THINK THERE SHIT DONT STICK I GOT NEWS YOUR ALL SMELLY IN HERE LMMFAO AT YOU PUSSY TWITS


#32



unclecrash

CANT BELIEVE NOT A ONE OF YOU SMALL ENGINE DICK WEEDS FIGURED OUT TO TEST THE CLUCTCH BUNCH OF WHINNY LOSERS IN HERE WHO KNOW NOTHING, AS OLD AS THE MOWER IS YA ITS THE CLUTCH LMMFAO AT RIVITS AND BURT BOY YOU SUCK, I EVEN TOLD YOU THE BATTERY IS GOOD AND YOU CRYED ABOUT THAT IT COULD BE A MILLION PLATES LMMFAO GREAT SMALL ENGINE REPAIR GUYS IN HERE FUNNY IM A MECHANIC BUT NEVER SAID NOTHING ABOUT BEING SMALL ENGINE MECH SO YOUR STUPID POST RIVITS ABOUT IF I WAS A GOOD MECH I WOULD KNOW MY OWN MOTOR IS ASSINIGN TO SAY THE LEAST. GUESS YOU WERE ASSUMING AGAIN.


#33

R

Rivets

Shoutings getting louder and dumber!!! Holes getting deeper!!! Wonder what part of the country this guys from??? Pity anyone who has to deal with him face to face!!! Maybe it’s 13 year old Karen trolling us again???


#34

StarTech

StarTech

Rivets said:
Shoutings getting louder and dumber!!! Holes getting deeper!!! Wonder what part of the country this guys from??? Pity anyone who has to deal with him face to face!!! Maybe it’s 13 year old Karen trolling us again???
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Probably more like a 2 yr old.

If he screaming he is going have to be a lot louder as I can't hear or see him.

He probably thinks we don't know how to test a PTO electric coil. Well is an example of the Warner with the actual resistance values blanked out so he has no point of reference other than a new PTO clutch or someone willing to give a guess at the values. Only applies to the models listed.

1629583246220.png


#35

H

hlw49

I quit the thread to try and avoid what happened could see nothing good would come from it.


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