Should ZTR operators be ticketed if the ROPS bar is removed?

[Ric]

Ric,
Well maybe I need to Google "fatalities on Zero Turn Mowers" to get a perspective, as mentioned in one of these threads, about just what the statisics say about that. I'm just about to the point where if I could "change my vote" it would be 0 Yes votes and 15 No votes(or somebody is going to have to vote yes just so I don't feel so bad & lonely:0)

According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission it is estimated that there are about 12,000 serious injuries caused by ride-on mowers each year with fatalities ranging from 30 to 50.

 

[djdicetn]

According to the Consumer Product Safety Commission it is estimated that there are about 12,000 serious injuries caused by ride-on mowers each year with fatalities ranging from 30 to 50.

Well, 30 to 50 annually probably wouldn't spark a grass roots movement for mandantory safety legilsation but even that many makes me wanna slow down a little and be careful!!

 

[X-man]

After doing some reading, this is what I think about when it comes to the ROPS bar.

If all you do is mow on flat land, or if you have a bunch of trees hanging low that can cause a problem, then yeah, you don't have to worry about anything if you remove the ROPS. But, if you mow on hilly land or around a deep ditch, then I would definetly keeps the ROPS bar on my ZTR.

I don't think you should be fined if you remove the ROPS, because it is your decision on whether or not it is safe without it.

A seatbelt is different, however. Every time you are driving on the road, you are always at risk of colliding into some schmuck that doesn't know how to drive and fly out of the windshield. That's why it is a law (that saves lives) to wear your seatbelt (unless you are on private property). You don't have that risk driving a lawn mower because typically you are cutting the grass.

Again, I feel that you should not be fined if your ROPS is missing.

 

[jekjr]

Well, 30 to 50 annually probably wouldn't spark a grass roots movement for mandantory safety legilsation but even that many makes me wanna slow down a little and be careful!!

Of those accidents with mowers and those fatalities from mowers it would be interesting to know how many are roll overs from Zero turns.

Personally I find as much danger in trees coming in contact with ROPs as with a roll over. I run a zero turn all day lots of days and I have had more near misses from the ROPs coming in contact with trees and other obstacles than I have had near misses in roll over situations. I run my mowers with the ROPs folded and even with them folded they present problems of this nature.

It is the nature of the operation to have the operator's attention focused downward and not upward. Ditches, steep hillsides, and washouts are definitely dangerous. Because the operator's attention is focused on the ground however he is more apt to be able to see them and avoid them. Also ground speed is normally at a very minimum on steep inclines. Many times a low hanging limb will be a encountered on level ground where the ground speed is much higher.

One other thought if you are so hyped up on zero turns why not make ALL riding mowers have to have them regardless of size?

Personally I would 1000 times rather put my zero turns in steep one sided places than I had a lawn tractor that you seem to not be concerned about.

 

[djdicetn]

Of those accidents with mowers and those fatalities from mowers it would be interesting to know how many are roll overs from Zero turns.

Personally I find as much danger in trees coming in contact with ROPs as with a roll over. I run a zero turn all day lots of days and I have had more near misses from the ROPs coming in contact with trees and other obstacles than I have had near misses in roll over situations. I run my mowers with the ROPs folded and even with them folded they present problems of this nature.

It is the nature of the operation to have the operator's attention focused downward and not upward. Ditches, steep hillsides, and washouts are definitely dangerous. Because the operator's attention is focused on the ground however he is more apt to be able to see them and avoid them. Also ground speed is normally at a very minimum on steep inclines. Many times a low hanging limb will be a encountered on level ground where the ground speed is much higher.

One other thought if you are so hyped up on zero turns why not make ALL riding mowers have to have them regardless of size?

Personally I would 1000 times rather put my zero turns in steep one sided places than I had a lawn tractor that you seem to not be concerned about.

jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)

 

[jekjr]

jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)

Te thing about it is, if you cut your yard and only our yard you immediately know after one or two cuttings what obstacles to watch out for to keep from hanging the ROPs on. However if you cut many different yards you run into a problem of not seeing all of them and it is a major hazard in it's self. I hung one yesterday on my 326 and had the front wheels off the ground.

 

[jekjr]

My personal belief on all of this is that people that run equipment ought to be the ones that determine what is safe and what is not. People that sit in offices and are as clueless as a pig looking at a wrist watch ought not be telling those that operate equipment daily what they need to do for their own safety. If you feel safer with a ROPs on your mower and a seat belt on the leave it on and wear the belt. For many it is a trade off and they have more concern of the thing flipping them from hitting an obstacle than they do operating on in level ground. Like I said above I hung the ROPs on my 326 yesterday with it folded. About any equipment you can name is dangerous. Mandating across the board things that have to be done are not always the best thing for all concerned.

 

[jekjr]

jekjr,
It's not so much lack of concern over lawn tractors, but due to the nature of the industry. You don't see a majority of "lawn tractor" manufacturers(Husqvarna, Cub Cadet, etc.) that sell those machines as explitly being a "Commercial" mower even though it is a given that many Lawn Care maintanance companies use them. Now the big ole John Deere's have them, but mostly because that model line evolved from "John Deere tractors"...not consumer "lawn tractors". Good point, though, in regard to singleing out ZTR's. And like user Ric has pointed out, what about standers, walk-behinds with sulky, etc?? Can't really put a ROPS on those, right? Even though my Avatar shows my ROPS down, I have since added a sunshade so now it is always up. I understand when time is money, your point about an operator's focus being downward, but scanning the area before beginning and remembering where overhead obstacles may be encountered(or maybe a pre-walkthrough placing small red flags in the ground to warn of overhead obstacles). I have a relatively flat lawn with mild grade but have not been wearing my seat belt. I hear ya about bailing out versus being fastened to the machine but if the ROPS is up and the seat belt on if I roll it won't I be OK(just hanging upside down)???? If not...the ROPS/seatbelt is useless as the tits on a boar hog:0) I am leaning towards ALWAYS wearing my seat belt when mowing going forward unless I can be convinced I'm safer without it(and the likelihood of me turning over is relative to me watching out for my mimosa trees:0)

If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.

Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.

 

[Ric]

If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.

Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.

I agree the same rules should apply to the homeowners and your assumption is most likely right the majority of accidents, injuries and deaths are on the side of the homeowner and is caused by not reading the manuals from the manufacturer and not knowing how to properly operate the equipment they purchase.

 

[djdicetn]

If you are so concerned about commercial operators, why should those same rules not apply to the home owner? I would imagine that there are many, many, many more injuries and deaths from home owners on mowers than commercial operators.

Wh not just ban home owners from owning a mower period and mandate that only commercial operators can cut grass? Ten fine the home owner if he has limbs or other overhead objects that will interfere with a ROPs on a commercial mower? Tat makes about as much sense as you pushing to get a commercial operator find for not using a ROPs.

jekjr,
I started the other thread but not this poll and the OP of this poll did NOT specifically target "commercial operators". Initially, I did in my thread, because the news story that got me thinking about this was indeed a commercial operator fatality. To an extent I agree with you(in regards to the manufacturers and dealers providing homeowners the necessary safety equpment and operating guidlines when a homeowner insists they want a "Commercial ZTR) that the same rule should apply across the board. But if I buy a Commercial ZTR(which I did), the manufacturer provides the ROPS and seat belt and the selling dealer ensures that I have been "educated" to the dangers and how to properly use the safety equipment that pretty well makes my wife only able to sue me if I kill myself on it and did not heed the advice I received when I bought it. On the other hand, a commercial operator brings a second party(the homeowner) into the mix and indeed the operators wife could include that homeowner into a lawsuit for requiring the ZTR operatior to mow that great big steep ditch. Aren't those two scenarios a little different???? I mean you do have a liability insurance policy for your business....right? If I don't have a life insurance policy(and don't really know if the insurance company would protest a death benefit payment for a ZTR accident) that's my bad. But if you destroy a customer's property or there is a operator casualty on a customer's property that's your bad(or liability).....right? Really, couldn't some legislation/restriction/enforcement in the long haul would actually "protect" the Lawn Care Maintenance business owner....not "punish him". Just trying to sort out all of the underlying what if's and pros/cons to a sensitive topic.