Scag Tigercat dies

[Bryan Taylor Johnson]

We'll have to wait and see how Bryan fairs with his TC, hopefully it is just the seat switch.
billymagg, I think that you will find the Tiger Cat to be an excellent machine. Should you need info on the TC, get the model and serial numbers of the machine, go to scag.com, in the L/H column there is a link to manuals, click on it. Click on STC Scag Tiger Cat and find your serial number group. The manual is a pdf download that you can save and or print. The wiring diagram in in the last pages of the owners manual portion, I suggest that you print it as it is good to make notes on it that will make understanding the electrical system easier as you become more familiar with the machine.
As a retired mech I no longer have the dealers parts dept available, so I stock parts for my own machines to keep service down time to a minimum.
I certainly hope that Bryan's dealer stocks seat switches, if they don't, I suggest that he find a quality servicing dealer. The seat switch may not be the culprit, but on Scags if the seat switch isn't functioning correctly, then the machine won't function. I even stock a new electronic control module, something that some Scag dealers don't stock and at $119 each, you will probably not find anyone like me who does this. I even stock new electric clutches for my machines! Some of this attitude that I have comes from having been an aircraft mech in the US Army and what I had to beg, borrow or steal to keep in my secret parts stash to keep them flying!!! Could be why my fellow soldiers nicknamed me Mad Mackie and a few unmentionables!!!
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

This is Bryan again. My tiger cat worked well one time after I bypassed the seat switch. I picked up a new seat switch but decided to leave it bypassed to see if it would act up. I mowed for 35 min and parked it outside my shed, I don't like to park hot mowers inside until they cool off. Two hours later I got on it to park it and it wouldn't crank. No battery voltage at all going to the start side of the starter solenoid. The battery is not the problem. When I picked up the seat switch at the dealer I was told it had already been replaced twice. I new then that it wasn't the problem. I have 12 volts on both sides of my bypass wire. I plugged the new seat switch to the harness and worked it by hand and it didn't make any difference. Since it is still under warranty I turned the dump valves and winched it on my trailer. I took it to the dealer on sat the 5th only to find out they were closed for the holiday, another 32 mile round trip. I finally took it to the shop while it was acting up and nobody there. I took it to another dealer in the next county and talked to a guy that really seemed concerned about my problem. He said the problem my be in the pto switch or the park brake switch. They couldn't look at it Saturday because their shop was closed, but while I was there the t cat made a fool out of me again, it started right up. I took it back home and finished my yard. I didn't dare shut it off until I got thru mowing. Now I have to decide which dealer to take it to, the one where I bought it or the one closest to home. I'm not made at the dealer but at the situation. I'm about to contact scag corp because I'm getting desperate. The mower had never quit while I was mowing, only when I stop to get off. This is the first time it wouldn't start after I parked it for a while. When it didn't start I video tape with my smart phone to show that I wasn't crazy. Oh well back to the old drawing board next week. THANKS BTJ

 

[Mad Mackie]

Under the panel with the keyswitch and close to it is the cranking relay. When all the safety circuits are in the correct order, (seat switch, parking brake switch, L/H and R/H travel lever switches, PTO off, power is then felt at the control module. The control module will then ground the coil in the cranking relay, closing the contacts which allow power to the engine start solenoid and the engine will crank.
When the engine is running and all the safety circuits are in the OK to operate the mower, then the PTO switch can be pulled on and the deck will operate.
The cranking relay is a known problem and will get intermittent before it finally quits. This relay had a diode in it and should be replaced with like part.
Of course loose, dirty and or corroded contacts anywhere in the electrical system can give you problems.

 

[billymagg]

This is Bryan again. My tiger cat worked well one time after I bypassed the seat switch. I picked up a new seat switch but decided to leave it bypassed to see if it would act up. I mowed for 35 min and parked it outside my shed, I don't like to park hot mowers inside until they cool off. Two hours later I got on it to park it and it wouldn't crank. No battery voltage at all going to the start side of the starter solenoid. The battery is not the problem. When I picked up the seat switch at the dealer I was told it had already been replaced twice. I new then that it wasn't the problem. I have 12 volts on both sides of my bypass wire. I plugged the new seat switch to the harness and worked it by hand and it didn't make any difference. Since it is still under warranty I turned the dump valves and winched it on my trailer. I took it to the dealer on sat the 5th only to find out they were closed for the holiday, another 32 mile round trip. I finally took it to the shop while it was acting up and nobody there. I took it to another dealer in the next county and talked to a guy that really seemed concerned about my problem. He said the problem my be in the pto switch or the park brake switch. They couldn't look at it Saturday because their shop was closed, but while I was there the t cat made a fool out of me again, it started right up. I took it back home and finished my yard. I didn't dare shut it off until I got thru mowing. Now I have to decide which dealer to take it to, the one where I bought it or the one closest to home. I'm not made at the dealer but at the situation. I'm about to contact scag corp because I'm getting desperate. The mower had never quit while I was mowing, only when I stop to get off. This is the first time it wouldn't start after I parked it for a while. When it didn't start I video tape with my smart phone to show that I wasn't crazy. Oh well back to the old drawing board next week. THANKS BTJ

Wow Bryan, we may be cousins, I always thought those things just happened to me, and yes I have hauled my John Deere while it was running, we had some real problems with the anti-dieseling solenoids on one of our mowers, and have bypassed it completely. Now I hope the Scag will behave herself, and the two John Deeres are each running better now that they are separated, but I am extremely glad I found this thread just in case. I used to live at Walter Hill, Tenn. before my Dad sold our farm and moved the whole shebang to Central Obamastan to pursue some fool dream of farming, yep, tractors, cattle herd and all. He was an IP in the C-130, and was stationed at Sewart AFB, but I was born a tar-heel, LOL.

 

[mechanic mark]

403 Forbidden

 

[monkfarm]

You are correct. The seat switch on Scags has a dual purpose, one being in the primary safety circuit and two in the engine cranking circuit, but all in conjunction with the safety interlock module. The cranking relay and the key switch are next in the troubleshooting process.
The seat switch is an easy item to replace, but the electrical connector must be removed first and it has a locking loop on it that must be carefully lifted before the connector can be disconnected.
I have bypassed the seat switch on my Ingersoll 4018 GT so the engine will keep running when I'm off the seat and being a hand controlled machine, I can move the tractor while standing beside it, however I am not an advocate of bypassing seat switches and I will not do it to any customers machine regardless of their insistence to do so!!!

??Mad Mackie, I should be able to just cut the wires to the seat switch and connect them together to bypass the seat switch, right>?? I am the one with the dead 27 hp kaw in the Scag Cougar, I am having so much problems with. . . It runs great for 20 -30 seconds, and then cuts out. I live in the sticks, and the local scag dealer takes a couple weeks in Red Wing MN to get any parts. I don't really have a backup, the John Deere has a tiller hooked up to it.

 

[monkfarm]

Would a failing cranking relay shut down the engine, or just forbid it to start?

 

[Mad Mackie]

I would have to see the wiring diagram for your machine, not familiar with the Cougar, I will look at the diagrams for the Cougar on the Scag site.
A failing cranking relay will only affect the cranking circuit and not affect running. I'm leaning toward the key switch on your machine, but I need to look at the Cougar wiring diagrams. When the cranking relay on my machine was intermittent, I could start the engine by jumping battery positive to the start solenoid.

 

[monkfarm]

Thanks so much for the reply, Mad Mackie!! Old finnlander? I am 3 /8s finn, my father knew finn before he knew english.
I have also posted in the Scag, and the Kawasaki, and the repair forums about this. "Scag Cougar. . ."
I do have a new ignition switch coming, should be here by friday at the latest. . . It does seem a little worn, but I did blow out the debris out of the connections, and used electronic cleaner on those, the connections on the key switch seem fine. I appreciate any help! We've had a lot of rain, and the grass getting out of control!
I am going to blow out the fuel lines, and see what that does. . .

 

[Mad Mackie]

As a kid I knew some Finns and Sweeds, nice folk, they knew how to eat!!! There was a large community of both in Providence, RI when I was a youngster there.
Is the Kawasaki on your machine a liquid cooled engine? I also see a fuel pump in the Kawi wiring diagram, but not in the parts manual, does it have an electric fuel pump?
I also see more electrical safety circuits as the Cougar has a blower and hopper system as standard equipment. The seat switch and the cranking relay are wired in the typical Scag manner. I don't recommend cutting out the seat switch connector, but you could makeup a jumper to temporarily bypass the seat switch. Not a good idea to remove safety circuits on these machine, if you are like me, I get forgetful at times and that can be a problem!!!! Maybe it's just old Scotsmen like Mackie that forget to put underware on under their kilts in winter!!!!! HaHa!!!
Mad Mackie in CT

 

[monkfarm]

Mackie is a very finnish name, so I made some assumptions, sorry. I'm 62, so I tend to forget stuff, also. I'm also a little sliver scotch on my mother's side.
It does have an electric fuel pump, and it is odd about the schematics. The electric fuel pump is only listed (in the SCR owners manual in the Kawasaki Electrical schematic, not in the fuel and hydraulic components diagram or the Kawasaki electrical system diagram. The electric fuel pump is not listed in any of the parts lists either, that I could find.
This is a liquid cooled engine, yes.
Yes, as soon as i have it running, I will put back the seat safety switch, but in the meantime, I just cut the wires, and wire nutted them together. . .