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Scag Tiger Cub Ruins Batteries

#1

G

Geofft

I've never done a forum before, but I cannot for the life of me figure this out. I have a scag Tiger Cub STC61V-23BV that has the 23hp Briggs vanguard. It started to completely drain a battery as I cut and leave me stranded. First thought, put a new battery. After an hour or 2 of mowing, the battery was dead. Second thought, voltage regulator. Nope, still drained the battery. Checked stator output and it was fine. Then I started getting alot of chatter from the solenoid so I replaced it. Still drained the battery. I finally noticed that the female connector on the wiring harness that goes to the seat switch was missing and all 3 wires were wire nutted together. I'm assuming this is the issue, but I cannot find that female end without buying a whole harness. If anyone else has any other suggestions or input on what might be the issue or where to get a connector I would sure appreciate it.


#2

StarTech

StarTech

The connector can be gotten from Stens. PN 430-057 which replaces the Delta 96525-GY housing. Just note the shorting strip ( if present) need to be removed for use on the Scag harness.

But the way the wires are try together it just overrides the operator present switch and has nothing to do with the system draining.

Since you have the stator output did check the voltage regulator output voltage. If it is fine then it is likely that you have a partially shorted PTO clutch field winding. I have seen these to partially shorted pulling up to 20 amps and still operate but drain the electrical system.


#3

B

bertsmobile1

Checked the alternator output how & where and what was it ?
If the recharge current flows through the key switch, that can burn out.
Wire carrying the recharge current back to the battery can also be broken


#4

G

Geofft

bertsmobile1 said:
Checked the alternator output how & where and what was it ?
If the recharge current flows through the key switch, that can burn out.
Wire carrying the recharge current back to the battery can also be broken
Click to expand...
I'm wanting to say it was around 20v and then 13v coming out of the regulator. I forgot to add that I did put in a new switch. The batteries don't just get drained, they are bad after 1 mow. I put a brand new battery on cut for a couple hours and it was dead. I took the battery out and put it on a charger and then put it on another mower and it wouldn't work. It has to be hooked to a jump box every time no matter what you put it on. This has happened to 3 batteries now.


#5

S

slomo

Do the old school parasitic battery drain test.

Key OFF, mower OFF.

Remove negative terminal/connector at - battery post.
Insert meter set to AMPS. Measure between negative cable/connector and - battery post. Black robe on - battery post and + probe on - battery cable terminal/connector.

Make sure your meter has a FUSE to measure amps. This might be a nice healthy short since it's eating batteries.

slomo


#6

G

Geofft

slomo said:
Do the old school parasitic battery drain test.

Key OFF, mower OFF.

Remove negative terminal/connector at - battery post.
Insert meter set to AMPS. Measure between negative cable/connector and - battery post. Black robe on - battery post and + probe on - battery cable terminal/connector.

Make sure your meter has a FUSE to measure amps. This might be a nice healthy short since it's eating batteries.

slomo
Click to expand...
I'll give that a try. Thanks!


#7

B

bertsmobile1

Lets try this again.
20 what sort of volts and between which wires ?
13 what sort of volts and measured between what wires ?
Those two numbers do not add up
13V DC can not be obtained from 20V AC using the simple electronics found on mowers.

One thing that can destroy a light duty battery in a very short time is pumping AC into it .
Did you check for AC between the battery terminals ?

We are not standing there next to you drinking your beer and watching what you are doing
We have no idea on your level of understanding of mower electronics so we need to know EXACTLY what you did & how you did it.
Some people will squirt carb cleaner down the throat of a carb, engine off then tell us they have cleaned the carburettor.
Others will strip it down to the tiniest part including removing all of the welch plugs and dump it in an ultrasonic bath for an hour .


#8

B

Born2Mow

slomo said:
Do the old school parasitic battery drain test.

Key OFF, mower OFF.

Remove negative terminal/connector at - battery post.
Insert meter set to AMPS. Measure between negative cable/connector and - battery post. Black robe on - battery post and + probe on - battery cable terminal/connector.

Make sure your meter has a FUSE to measure amps. This might be a nice healthy short since it's eating batteries.
Click to expand...
You'll want to perform Slomo's test 2 ways: key OFF and key ON. And maybe a third way if you turn on any accessories while you mow. For instance if you run a car radio, then you'll need a third test: radio OFF and radio ON.
  • The charging circuit is generally the only thing connected to the battery with the Ignition OFF.
  • Obviously, Ignition ON cuts in the ignition circuit
  • You can probably figure out the radio
1. The first suspect is always any wiring you've added or the PO added, like the radio, added headlamps, or tow-behind BBQ trailer.
2. Burt is correct. The second suspect is the charging system trying to charge the battery with AC.

Hope this helps.


#9

StarTech

StarTech

bertsmobile1 said:
Lets try this again.
20 what sort of volts and between which wires ?
13 what sort of volts and measured between what wires ?
Those two numbers do not add up
13V DC can not be obtained from 20V AC using the simple electronics found on mowers.

One thing that can destroy a light duty battery in a very short time is pumping AC into it .
Did you check for AC between the battery terminals ?

We are not standing there next to you drinking your beer and watching what you are doing
We have no idea on your level of understanding of mower electronics so we need to know EXACTLY what you did & how you did it.
Some people will squirt carb cleaner down the throat of a carb, engine off then tell us they have cleaned the carburettor.
Others will strip it down to the tiniest part including removing all of the welch plugs and dump it in an ultrasonic bath for an hour .
Click to expand...
I disagree if he has the 10 or 13 amp setup that you can't get 13+ dc from a 20 vac stator. Most likely the OP will have the 691185 regulator. But yes if it has failed and AC is at the battery it can cause problems.

Also if the OP is using one of the 6/12 automatic battery chargers it may be only charging to 6v on completely drained battery. The one I have here does that which why I got an 30+ yr old 12v charger or I use my 12v solar panel to recharge completely dead batteries. The batteries has to have at least 7vdc charge for the auto charger to charge to 12+ vdc. Actually the 12v 5a solar panel does a better job restoring completely drained 12v batteries.

.BS 10 A REG.JPG


#10

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

Question is: does mower have a charging issue or a high current drain issue or both.
Install a known good charged battery.
What is battery voltage with key off?
What is battery voltage with key on?
Turn on PTO clutch. What is battery voltage?
Turn off PTO and turn on any other accessories and what is battery voltage?
What is the measured resistance of PTO clutch?
If meter can measure over 30amps DC connect meter between negative battery terminal and battery cable.
What is measured current with key off?
What is measured current with key on?
What is measured current with PTO engaged?
Replace battery cable on battery and start mower and set to full throttle.
What is the battery voltage?
Turn on PTO and any other accessories.
What is the battery voltage?
These would be a good start to begin troubleshooting.


#11

S

slomo

Wondering if this engine gets a lot of idle time??

slomo


#12

G

garngail

Geofft said:
I've never done a forum before, but I cannot for the life of me figure this out. I have a scag Tiger Cub STC61V-23BV that has the 23hp Briggs vanguard. It started to completely drain a battery as I cut and leave me stranded. First thought, put a new battery. After an hour or 2 of mowing, the battery was dead. Second thought, voltage regulator. Nope, still drained the battery. Checked stator output and it was fine. Then I started getting alot of chatter from the solenoid so I replaced it. Still drained the battery. I finally noticed that the female connector on the wiring harness that goes to the seat switch was missing and all 3 wires were wire nutted together. I'm assuming this is the issue, but I cannot find that female end without buying a whole harness. If anyone else has any other suggestions or input on what might be the issue or where to get a connector I would sure appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Here’s something to try as I had a similar problem with a Tecumseh 23hp on a z-turn White (MTD). So that battery was fully charged I used a battery minder as , if I didn’t it wouldn’t have enough to start it when cold after running for an hour.
After checking many items I checked the draw of the electric clutch that put blades in gear. It was drawing 32 amps, certainly more than the charging circuit.


#13

StarTech

StarTech

Drawing 32A should blown the 20 amp fuse normally use as a main fuse; although, Scags uses 30 amp fuses which should still blown when the PTO was engaged with the engine not running.

I have however seen failures from just drawing at stator capacity to full blown shorts. For those without meters capable of high amp readings there is two options to check the PTO clutch. One is to do an ohms test and the other would catch partially shorted that intermittently grounds out. This involves installing an inline fuse holder in the PTO circuit and using a 7.5 - 10 amp fuse.


#14

S

slomo

Some fuses, rated at say 10 amps, might blow at say 16 amps AND for an overloaded period of time to make it pop. Those be the slow rollers. Cue up the Low Rider song......

slomo


#15

B

Born2Mow

Hammermechanicman said:
Question is: does mower have a charging issue or a high current drain issue or both.
Click to expand...
That's the whole question in a nut shell.

Sometimes I'll place an analog 10A meter between one battery terminal and the cable. Any shorts will peg the meter. Of course you need to be able to break that connection before you burn up the meter!! But you can sure save a lot of fuse replacement that way. Especially useful if the short is in the harness and you need to jiggle the harness or otherwise manually massage parts to get them to react.

A meter is a lot more sensitive than a fuse. If you have a 20A fuse, then a 10A draw-down due to a wire rubbing the frame (or some such) won't "blow" the fuse, but will definitely keep the battery from charging while running, and kill the battery over night when not running.

One time I used that trick to trace a short to inside a tail lamp bulb !!


#16

Hammermechanicman

Hammermechanicman

I don't like to put a lot of current through my Fluke 87V meters. I use a current shunt.
Easy way to check for parasitic draw is to simply disconnect a battery terminal lead when done mowing and wait a few days and see if the battery stays up.


#17

B

Born2Mow

Hammermechanicman said:
I don't like to put a lot of current through my Fluke 87V meters.
Click to expand...
That's exactly why I said to use an "analog meter"...

upd-a1052_xl.jpg


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