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So I still can't get the first blade I tried to replace off yet, but I decided to try the other two. Came off no problem. Image below seems to suggest why not to wait seven years to replace your blades. I'm thinking if I can get the third one off and replace all three, I'll see a difference when I mow again.

You sure will definitely see a difference in mowing once all the blades are replaced with new ones.

Might I suggest the following.....

For that third stubborn blade to be removed, might I suggest using a "breaker bar" to remove the large nut/bolt.

1.) Install the other two new blades first (apply a bit of anti-seize to help prevent the blades from being too difficult to be removed in the future) and first hand tighten the large nut/bolt then apply a torque value setting to it (your manual should show or give a specified torque valve for the blades).

2.) Once the other two new blades are installed, secure one of them with a "secure blade holder" then remove that stubborn large nut/bolt with a good socket and large breaker bar.

Just my $0.02

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Didn't know there was such a thing as a blade removal tool! That's beats my chunk of 2x4 for sure. Going to pick one of those up today!

Thanks!

I often use a visegrips to block the blade from turning.

The Chairman said:

I often use a visegrips to block the blade from turning.

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That's probably a good idea for the block even so that I'm trying trying to hold the block while I start applying pressure etc. All of these things that don't seem obvious when you replace blades for the first time. Thanks guys.

And I guess it looks like five years for the blades maybe. Seems like I've had the mower longer than that. Can't get over the shape of the old blades. Looks like they've been sharpened before.

Hustler27 said:

And I guess it looks like five years for the blades maybe. Seems like I've had the mower longer than that. Can't get over the shape of the old blades. Looks like they've been sharpened before.

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I sharpen or replace my blades after just about every mow. Mind you, with almost 11 acres, that's every 8 to 9 hours of mowing. After you replace the blades, check your deck for being level. I use a 3" block of wood on a flat surface to accomplish this.

A chunk of 2x4 or 4x4 a 1/2" breaker bar with a 6 point socket and a 4 foot torque amplifier (pipe) and problem solved.

4x4 instead of 2x4 is another good idea I should have thought of. Probably have that lying around. Need to see what I have that could work as a pipe.

At lest 3 or 4 times a year A blade bolt has to be cut off.
It is no big deal.
Cut an X through the head then slip a cold chisel into the V of the X and give it a good hard smack.
once the head os off they undo with your fingers, the threads are never rusted in it is always simple over tightening.
In the workshop there is a 1" drive impact wrench and even that fails to remove a bolt 3 or 4 times a year.
In use they self tighten .
for on site there is an 8' length of 2x4 hollow steel tube that gets slipped over the blade, a 1" & 3/4" drive breaker bars so they are 6' & 4' long respectively.
A jack goes under the head of the breker bar so it does not fall off & the other end gets pushed with my legs .

So I'm starting to get pretty frustrated. Just went out and bought a 30" breaker bar. Tried it twice and instead of the bolt holding strong like with the ratchet, it slipped and left me with a round bolt. I wish I would have stuck with the ratchet because that at least didn't ruin the bolt.

Spray plenty of WD-40 around the large nut/bolt prior to removal (did you use the correct size socket for that specific size large nut/bolt? If not then when trying to force any over tighten nut without the exact fitting socket, wrench, etc. will definitely result in rounding out the nut).

If it still won't move then apply heat to the large nut/bolt area a few times, then right before it cools try removing it.

But as it looks now, your only other option to remove it is to either cut into it and use a chisel and heavy blow hammer or cut it off completely and replace the entire spindle maybe?

This is another good example of why I always encourage the use of applying a "Torque value setting" and using "Anti-Seize" when tightening any size nuts, bolts, etc. to prevent from over tightening.

Never use an impact to tighten one of these blade bolts/large nuts, always use a torque wrench when doing so.

(I have these, this is what I use to apply direct heat to an over tighten large nut/bolt area when called for, never have done so on my mowers but have used this method on helping neighbors mowers, etc.).....

Hustler27 said:

So I'm starting to get pretty frustrated.

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I feel your pain, bro. If you're using a long breaker bar, the socket should be the same. The art is to get the load "balanced" so the socket stays on the fastener, and then bounce the crap out of that breaker bar. I have a six foot, 3/4" breaker bar that I have to use every now and then.The further away you're from the fastener, the more diligent you have to be about getting that socket on square and getting that load just right. If you try the hot wrench as mentioned above, hit it with a penetrating oil at the hottest temp. The shock will help break the jam and the cooling effect will draw oil deep into the crack.

Every now and then, I find hitting it with a impact gun going forward and THEN reverse will break that lock. You might even take it by an automotive shop and offer one of the mechanics a few bucks to break it loose. Ingersol Rand has a great record in that regard.

Only sockets I had with my largest wrench were the 12 point, so I went and bought a hex that fits and the hex is still gripping. I'm going to give the breaker bar with the hex a chance. If not I'll have to see if I can social distance borrow something to try cutting it with. Just to be clear, I didn't over tighten it guys...I just didn't change the blades for five years because I'm afraid I'll do it wrong and throw a blade through he neighbor's window.

When using a breaker bar on a blade bolt I put a jack under the head of the breaker bar so it gets held on tight.

And once again blade bolts self tighten in use.
It does not matter if they started finger tight after a lot of use they will get that tight noting will shift them.
How long this takes depends upon the conditions they are used in,

The Chairman said:

I feel your pain, bro. If you're using a long breaker bar, the socket should be the same. The art is to get the load "balanced" so the socket stays on the fastener, and then bounce the crap out of that breaker bar. I have a six foot, 3/4" breaker bar that I have to use every now and then.The further away you're from the fastener, the more diligent you have to be about getting that socket on square and getting that load just right. If you try the hot wrench as mentioned above, hit it with a penetrating oil at the hottest temp. The shock will help break the jam and the cooling effect will draw oil deep into the crack.

Every now and then, I find hitting it with a impact gun going forward and THEN reverse will break that lock. You might even take it by an automotive shop and offer one of the mechanics a few bucks to break it loose. Ingersol Rand has a great record in that regard.

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HEat will not help getting a blade bolt off.
They are never ever rusted in
They are always overtightened
It is not a problem with the threads it is a problem with the head of the bolt
I have a 1300 ft lb impact that will shift most bolts
My landlord has a 2800 ft lb 1" drive impact and even that will not shift 3 to 4 bolts a year.
Usually it will be the right blade that self tightens to the point that the head has to be cut off.
Decks are designed so that the bolts self tighten in use because you do not want them to self loosen during use.

bertsmobile1 said:

They are never ever rusted in

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Any metal to metal contact has the ability to create a tight bond as it rusts together. It doesn't take much rust to seize a bolt and it's the rust you don't see that causes the problem. When this happens, you must break the bond between the two metals to get the bolt free. Heating up the bolt so that it swells can and does break the bond, but not always. Hitting the hot parts with penetrating lubricant will cause metals to shrink and often will suck some of the penetrant deep into the threads. It might take more than one or two cycles of heat and cold to get the bond to break. Steel also becomes plastic with heat. Heat the head enough, and the bolt will stretch a bit, releasing any pressure. You can argue with the physics all you want, but that's how it works. We call it the "hot wrench" for a reason. Do be careful though... heat can and will be transmitted through all metals and things like seals can be adversely affected. Just use reasonable care and you should be fine.

However, the absolute best way to bust things loose is prevention, prevention, prevention. Using anti-seize is an easy, cheap and incredibly effective way to prevent metals from creating any kind of bond. The carrier (grease) used in anti-seize will keep water out preventing any rust. In addition, the tiny, tiny flecks of a disimilar metal that can't rust does the rest and will continue to act as a lubricant should the grease dry out. Yeah, you don't like this and yet it seems that you have more than your share of stuck bolts. Perhaps you should give it a try. What have you got to loosen???

I was, at one time, an ASE Master Certified Auto & Truck Technician. My first job in the automotive world was back in 1969 and I spent 30 years in the service bays and learned how to deal with stubborn fasteners. I even moon lighted as a small engine mechanic and have never, ever met a blade bolt that would not come off. I'm the guy people would take their broken bolts to, because I know how to get them free without ruining the part.

Hustler27 said:

Only sockets I had with my largest wrench were the 12 point, so I went and bought a hex that fits and the hex is still gripping.

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Cool!!! 6 point sockets are the best and hopefully it's NOT chrome. Black (impact) sockets are slippery enough, but that chrome is just silly slippery. You'll find that black (impact) sockets also have a much thicker wall, which helps them to retain their size integrity under stress.

Hustler27 said:

So I still can't get the first blade I tried to replace off yet, but I decided to try the other two. Came off no problem. Image below seems to suggest why not to wait seven years to replace your blades. I'm thinking if I can get the third one off and replace all three, I'll see a difference when I mow again.

Click to expand...

i always keep a small 2x4 around for stuck blades, wedge it between the blade and deck shell as you use a breaker bar to loosen the nut. on some i had to use a cheater pipe as well and i had one the whole mower was rotating and i had to get a guy to hold it still. some of those bolts just get over tightened to the point of impossible to get off

I kinda gave up on the breaker bar with a 6 ft cheater after I got a AirCat 1150, installed hi flow couplers and adaptors. I got power now with the proper sockets to loosen and install even those 7/8 cross threading center locking nuts. which torqued to 300 ft-lbs. So far only twisted in two one 1/2" extension. 1300 Ft lbs can usually take about anything loose or break it trying. I have removed nuts that with breaker bar, cheater bar and me boucing near the end of the cheater. I weight over 250 lbs. But the impact don't complain as much as I do the next day.

The Chairman said:

Any metal to metal contact has the ability to create a tight bond as it rusts together. It doesn't take much rust to seize a bolt and it's the rust you don't see that causes the problem. When this happens, you must break the bond between the two metals to get the bolt free. Heating up the bolt so that it swells can and does break the bond, but not always. Hitting the hot parts with penetrating lubricant will cause metals to shrink and often will suck some of the penetrant deep into the threads. It might take more than one or two cycles of heat and cold to get the bond to break. Steel also becomes plastic with heat. Heat the head enough, and the bolt will stretch a bit, releasing any pressure. You can argue with the physics all you want, but that's how it works. We call it the "hot wrench" for a reason. Do be careful though... heat can and will be transmitted through all metals and things like seals can be adversely affected. Just use reasonable care and you should be fine.

However, the absolute best way to bust things loose is prevention, prevention, prevention. Using anti-seize is an easy, cheap and incredibly effective way to prevent metals from creating any kind of bond. The carrier (grease) used in anti-seize will keep water out preventing any rust. In addition, the tiny, tiny flecks of a disimilar metal that can't rust does the rest and will continue to act as a lubricant should the grease dry out. Yeah, you don't like this and yet it seems that you have more than your share of stuck bolts. Perhaps you should give it a try. What have you got to loosen???

I was, at one time, an ASE Master Certified Auto & Truck Technician. My first job in the automotive world was back in 1969 and I spent 30 years in the service bays and learned how to deal with stubborn fasteners. I even moon lighted as a small engine mechanic and have never, ever met a blade bolt that would not come off. I'm the guy people would take their broken bolts to, because I know how to get them free without ruining the part.

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Since I have been repairing mowers for a living I would have replaced several thousand blade bolts and am yet to come across one with the slightest amount of corrosion on them apart from on the outside of the head where they are exposed to the acid from the cut grass. They lock in because they self tighten in use .
It is a pure a simple case of dynamic loads causing the blade to rotate on the spindle and because the bolt head can not slip on the blade as it is under spring tension the bolt tightens.
This is also plain physics, the spindle is rotating in one direction and the blades resist the rotation so tighten .
Blade bolts fitted into a spindle never ever rust solid in place.
They can not do this unless fitted wet as the hole is blind , points up and the spindle / blade / washer / bolt interface is airtight when done up to the recommended torque.
Blade carriers on the other hand do rust in place because they are open to the atmosphere so you can get an oxidizing agent in there, usually water to start a galvanic cell and allow corrosion to occur
Or if you want to sound knowlegable, allow the high energy steel to revert to a lower energy state according to the laws of thermodynamics.
metals that have the same crystal structure or are in fact the same will form oxides that will grow into each other and form a single oxide layer.
Weather this is a problem depends upon thinsg like the strength of the oxide and the volume increase of the oxide, which in the case of rust is the big problem as rust is very very weak.
This is usually not a big problem unless it is a metal like stainless steel where the oxide is particularly strong, we call this gauling if it is on a fastener or stiction if it is something that is supposed to be a sliding fit.
Zinc carb slides are notorious for stiction & stainless bolts for gauling but neither of these are applicable to blade bolts .

Heating nuts & bolts works because one part gets heated more than the other part so it moves with respect to the other part and this movement can cause a fracture line to happen through one of the oxide to metal interfaces if and only if the amount of differential movement is sufficient .however, if not heated to red hot where a phase change causes a massive volume change, the amount of actual expansion is quite small. Like every process it has places where it is very appropriate and places where it actually makes the problem worse and a blade bolt is one of these cases.

I do use grease , copper, nickel & graphite anti sieze but being properly trained,only in places where it is appropriate to do so and then because I am properly trained the tension applied to the fastener is reduced to the appropriate level to compensate for the reduction in the dynamic friction between the contact faces of the threads .

A blade bolt into a spindle is not an appropriate place to use any type of thread lubricant because it MAKES THE SELF TIGHTENING WORSE even if the fastener was only tightened to 62.5 % of the printed dry thread torque to compensate for using copper anti sieze .
If the bolt is done up to the full listed tension then it will already be over tight and unless the anti sieze was also under the head, where it should never go the bolt will be a lot harder to remove and you run the risk of breaking the bolt because they are only grade 5 ( on commercial ) or standard ( on domestic) grade bolts thus you run the real risk of necking the shaft under the head thus allowing the bolt to fail under use.

Now I rarely bother to play the "qualificatins game" on the web because readers should read all of what is posted then make up their own minds not blindly follow the person with the higher quaifications.
But as you think it is appropriate I started off my career as a metallurgist, graduating with a higher diploma, followed with an undregraduate degree in metallurgy and one year of a masters in materials science which I never got around to fininshing .
Add to that post graduate diplomas in NDT and a stand alone radiology diploma , followed by a radiation diploma so I could rent isotopes to x-ray welds in pipes followed by a diploma in accoustic emissions , then audiology
diploma ( for workers comp ) and a diploma in adult eduction so could teach TAFE students part time. to be able to sign off on defense work NATA required me to get further qualifications in microscopy & metallography so as one of my ex- business partners used to say, more degrees than a thermometer .

But again people should read a post , work it through for themselves then try what they think is appropriate as this is the web & I could really be a 12 year old girl who gets her jollies by fooling people on line.

bertsmobile1 said:

but being properly trained

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Properly trained to use anti-seize? The water came out of my nose when I read this. That's too funny. Who did your training? Was it University or industry sponsored? Here's the only direction you need: a little dab'll do ya.

bertsmobile1 said:

Weather this is a problem depends upon thinsg like the strength of the oxide and the volume increase of the oxide, which in the case of rust is the big problem as rust is very very weak.

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Actually, it depends on the friction coefficient generated by the bond and the contaminate. When you're putting a lot of pressure, it doesn't take much to really jam things up.

FWIW, I live in Florida. It's not unusual to have very high humidity as you assemble things. Anti-seize is the way to go for me.

bertsmobile1 said:

.however, if not heated to red hot where a phase change causes a massive volume change,

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No. This is false. In college, I apprenticed in a machine shop and that was a great study in metals for me. Right after, I ran a materials science lab and machine shop for UF's college of architecture where that hands on learning was formalized. We had a 60,000 psi Tinius Olsen Stress Strain machine, where we could stress various items to failure. Adding heat was amazing. All metals have a modulus of elasticity. When stressed it will go through predictable ranges of being elastic like a rubber band and then being plastic, where permanent deformation occurs. 250F is enough for most steels to severly alter that modulus so that the steel enters the plastic stage almost rather quickly. This is why fires in steel buildings are so catastrophic. You don't need to go anywhere near "cherry red" in order to get that bolt a little loose.

Way way back I adopted the practice on not getting into spats with people on forums. particularly as like this one they tend to get way off topic & become both boring & confusing and thus no help to the original poster.
Thus as previously mentioned it is up to the reader to make their minds up.
There are places where copper anti sieze is the correct thing to use
There are places where graphite is the right stuff
There are places where nickle is the right stuff
there are places where plain old grease is absolutely fine
and there are places when anything on the threads should be avoided and the fastener should be done up dry
And Hustler 27's blade bolts is one of these cases
This is what training to use never sieze is all about not how to apply it, any monkey can do that and many monkeys do with absolutely no understanding of what they are doing .

As for the temperature dependence of elastic modulus, that has been the topic of millions of papers from undergraduate level right up to Phd level and it is specific to the alloy being used and the method of production of the item , grain size & orientation and the direction and type of loading.
It is also totally irrelvant to this situation.
A good engineer knows hundreds of equations & formulea .
A proficient one knows when & where to apply them

And a ceiling fire can run well over 1000 deg C and the fire strenght of steel truss roofs is dependent upon the type of steel in the truss, it's cross section on weather it is cold or hot rolled or extruded , open or closed section etc etc etc and yes you are right in one thing. fire men hate walking on a steel framed roof.
However they suffer from a double whammy because like bridges with insufficent expansion plates the uncontrolled EXPANSION of the hot steel can cause a failure and it is a bigger problem than heat reducing the stiffness unless you are talking about RSJ's riveted to cast plates and these need to get really hot .
many people mix up stress relief which will cause wrought structures to fail with softening of the steel which should never happen under 400 deg C in plain carbon structural steels

My blades look like the OP's after 7 hours of mowing, not 7 years! I usually get to sharpen them once and then they are pretty much worn away. I use an impact every time to take them off and then put them back on. Once I hit something with the left side blade and it took a lot more effort to get that bolt loose, but it finally moved. My neighbor came over to get help changing his blades for the first time on his gravely (I think). The first two came off with the impact no problem, but we had to get a cheater bar to remove the left one.

bertsmobile1 said:

it is specific to the alloy being used

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Le sigh... not really. Heat changes each and every alloy. Yes, the degree that it changes might differ, but heat will have an affect on any steel. On every steel. Especially carbon steels. The best way to relieve stress in most any steel is to heat it and let it cool. That's pretty universal. You seem to think this can't work, yet the metallurgy and physics disagrees with you. Again, it's why we call a torch the hot wrench.

bertsmobile1 said:

And a ceiling fire can run well over 1000 deg blah, blah, blah, blah...

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This is argumentum per deluvium... how does any of this matter to the one bolt we are heating? Can we stay on topic?

Again, I have to ask what "training" you got for anti-seize? Was it university or industry sponsored training? I'm guessing it's more apocryphal OJT with someone telling you what THEY think is true. I have been to product seminars by two manufacturers, and the amount of time they spent on anti-seize was pretty minimal. I've been successfully using anti-seize since 1969 when I first worked in a shop. For what it's worth, I can find absolutely no reference to using or not using anti-seize by Hustler. Apparently, they don't see it as a problem either way.

Let's consider some more physics. Bolts are held in by friction caused by tension. Sometimes, we add a lock washer or loctite to increase that friction to stop bolts from inadvertently backing out. When you tighten a nut, the the tension or stress between the bolt and the surface increases with the friction of the threaded components. Tighten it too much, and you get galling, which is a deformation caused by excessive friction in the threaded components. Even a tiny bit of galling can make the removal of any fastener far more problematic. The force needed to remove a fastener with galling and/or corrosion is amplified by the normal friction in the fastener.

Anti-seize was developed to inhibit any galling and corrosion. In fact, the application of anti-seize affords a small reduction in the torque needed for a fastener to achieve full holding power. Over tighten the fastener, like when hitting a stump, and the strength of the bolt, ie the stress between the head and the underlying surface, will be the limit for how much the blade overtightens tightens. Anti-seize will reduce the chance of it galling or seizing and you having to cut off the bolt. Amazingly, it's why they call it "anti-seize". Amazingly x2, it works as advertised, unless you fail to use it and have to keep cutting bolts off. Here's a definition of the stuff...

from www.Wiktionary.org :

About "spats". Unless it devolves to name calling, which I haven't done to you, it's not a spat but a disagreement. We disagree on two issues and we're both pretty passionate about that. That's what's great about a forum. You can read two or more sides of an issue and decide who is right and who is not. You have set yourself up as being "the authority" and yes, I have indeed challenged that. I'm not going to demean you and hopefully, I can expect the same from you. I've asked for clarifications (twice now) as to the nature of your training, but I absolutely feel no ill will towards you. Except for your treatise on burning buildings, both heating bolts and using anti-seize are germane to this topic.

I am here to learn just as much as anyone else.
When I see some thing that is wrong I like to correct it because what goes on the web stays there forever.
In the same vein when I post something that is factually wrong and others correct me I try to acknowledge it and modify the incorrect post.

If I wanted to set myself up as an authority then I would have included my full credentials in the footer of my posts but you will have noticed there is nothing there, not even the business name to affirm I am in fact currently a mower technician . On occasions I do mention that x number of cases have presented with this problem but apart from that it never gets a mention, on purpose. What is posted on the web should always be taken at face value and the reader should decide what is fact, what is fiction & what is urban myth.

Debates like this can very quickly go into esoteric levels where we could argue about the definition of gauling for instance and the different between gauling and mechanical surface welding .
There is nothing wrong with heating fasteners to facilitate their removal, I do it all the time, when it is the right thing to do.
There is nothing wrong with using anti-sieze , when it is the right thing to do

Now if Hustler 27 was trying to undo a deck bolt , a head bolt , or any other statically loaded bolt then heat is an appropriate mechanism to use as the fastener would most likely be corroded in place.
THis includes any fastener subject to varying stress like head bolts & muffler bolts.
But this is not the case
Hustler has a blade bolt that is under dynamic loading in a direction that causes the bolt to tighten in use.
Applying anti sieze to this bolt will facillitate over tightening by lowering the friction co-efficient even more than a dry thread would do.
If anything it should get a touch of low strength lock tite to prevent over tightening during use, some thing I never thought about till writing this post but will give a try the next time one of the problem child mowers comes in for a blade change.

Hustler27's bolt could be anything from 1/2 turn to 2 1/2 turns over tightened . much more than this exceeds the torsional elastic yield point of the steel & the bolt will start to neck & break the head off.
From what you have already posted you should be aware that forces applied on 2 planes drastically reduces the elastic yield point. This is why metal spinning works , not that it is used much now days.
For heat to work the shaft of the bolt has to expand more than the spindle, blade & washers to a length of at least 1/2 turn to relieve the pressure that the head of the bolt is applying to the shank of the bolt and that just is not going to happen without getting well & truely into forging temperatures and phase changes .
If the spindle used tapered roller bearings like a lot of the better old stuff did then it would have a nut on the blades and in that case heat would be appropriate but in this case it is not.

And metallurgy is an applied science involving physics, chemistry & engineering so yes I did study fasteners at both university & trade school levels and this included things like making lead bolts for cyrogenic use ( mine failed by the way ) and all sorts of weird things . We had to calculate the stresses on individual threads , yield stress on the thread roots & deformation of the thread face.
Nuts & bolts are a lot more complicated than most would think.

Overtightened heads get chopped off because it is the quickest & easiest way to remove them if my 1300 ft lb rattle gun will not shift them
Takes about 5 to 10 minutes and can be done by any one at home with an average home owners tool kit .
I used to take mowers up to the machinery shed, fire up the Boomwade compressor , lift the mower with the tractor then hit them with the 1" rattle gun.
Some came out but most broke .
Close examination of the ones that came out showed deformations in the plating under the head signifing that there had been some movement between the head & shaft so the bolt was compromised in any case thus could not be reused hence it became a pointless waste of a 1/2 hour and now only gets done if 2 or more bolts refuse to loosen with my rattle gun.

Bertsmobile1. I got a metallurgy ticket back in the 70's and followed you through your explanations. Spot on. I torque all bolts and know the value of doing so. I went trucking in the 80's and one of my customers supplied Kopr-Kote to the oil industry and gave me a pail. He warned me to torque 1/3 less. I was always leery about using it where torque was important as in mower blades and wheel nuts for example. I use it a lot where bolts don't need to come off often. Or holding two pieces of metal together. This was my rule of thumb.
A friend of mine brought me his Kubota ZTR to replace the blades a couple years ago. I grabbed my torque wrench and tried to torque to the manual's specs and it wouldn't tighten. I asked him if anyone put the blade on with an impact wrench and he was proud to tell me the last guy did and really gave it to the bolt. I told him the bolt was stretched and I wouldn't put them back on. He cussed but got new ones.

That is freaky,
I got my diploma in 72 , higher diploma in 73, BsApSci in 75 then started a delivery business in 88 when the metals industry collapsed and land prices skyrocketed so raiders bought out most of the metal business to sell off the real estate at massive profits.
Still a member of Aust Institute of Metals , an associate of American Society of Metals , American Foundrymens Society and a couple of other local associations.
Never lost the passion but one has to eat and delivery drivers always were paid more than technical staff.

So, for the end user: you have at least two methods of approaching this dilemma. The one that works for you, works for you.

I'm wondering if I don't have that issue because invariably, some anti-seize gets on the bolt face. Rather than spinning the bolt when it hits an obstruction, the blade spins under it. All I know is that it works for me and I'll continue to keep applying it as needed. It works as advertised. I had a few times where I had to really use a breaker bar to loosen the nut. After I started using anti-seize, I haven't had an issue with it at all. My 18V Ryobi Impact zings it right off and then it zings it back on. I sharpen or replace blades every 8 hours or so, which is a single mowing.

Just wondering when the threads will so worn that you will need parts.

I get in mower with blades so worn that you would definitely they have been off in years. Matter of fact I got sitting in my junk mower a Honda mower that has about a 12" long blade that should be 21" and the customer was only complaining that it was hard to start.

I think that one might just needing a slight touch-up to make it cut like new again.

The Chairman said:

So, for the end user: you have at least two methods of approaching this dilemma. The one that works for you, works for you.

I'm wondering if I don't have that issue because invariably, some anti-seize gets on the bolt face. Rather than spinning the bolt when it hits an obstruction, the blade spins under it. All I know is that it works for me and I'll continue to keep applying it as needed. It works as advertised. I had a few times where I had to really use a breaker bar to loosen the nut. After I started using anti-seize, I haven't had an issue with it at all. My 18V Ryobi Impact zings it right off and then it zings it back on. I sharpen or replace blades every 8 hours or so, which is a single mowing.

Click to expand...

That could actually be happening.
Had not thought of that

I had a Cub Cadet 52 inch deck model first and now have a Toro zero turn model 74778. On both I use(d) a length of pipe that is about 3ft. long and has reducers to drop down from about a 3" OD to 1" that I slide over the end of a blade to hold it still while I use a ratchet and socket with an extension bar to remove and install the blades. I have not had to use anti-seize compound on the bolts so far.

The one thing that causes the blades to become dull in my yard is that we have lots of crayfish which create mud towers after rains. The soil is clay and when it hardens the towers are hard as bricks! I sometimes have to resort to using my John Deere 5105 with a brush-hog to knock them down and then proceed with the Toro. We live in the country and have about 20 acres. The riding lawnmower only takes care of about 2.5 acres near the house and our barn.

We each seem to find solutions that work for us. I use a grind wheel mounted on a table with wheels to sharpen the blades. This helps the work go quicker. I recently had to replace one blade which had hit a piece of steel protruding above the ground that put a large notch in the blade. I check balance to make sure I am not creating excessive vibration.

I clean off the top of the mowing deck using compressed air after mowing. I make sure that the cooling air intake is clean and also check and clean the air intake for the engine.

I guess i am the outlaw here. I don't use antiseize compound on blade bolts. I just wipe some #2 grease on the threads and zip the blades on with an impact gun. Never had a blade come loose or one i couldn't get back off with a few hits of the impact. Only ones i have to cut off are the ones customers bring in with bolt heads already rounded off (not by me).

Must have a tiny yard and no sand. After two years of cutting my half acre Florida lawn my blades are 1/2 an inch shorter and an inch narrower at the tip. Invest in an electric impact wrench or if you have an air compressor get a half inch air impact tool. Get a set of impact sockets to go with them. Cheap Harbot Freight tools are good enough for occasional home owner use.

Bottom line here on this subject is, go with what works best and most comfortable for you when replacing / removing blades on your mower.

My blade removal tool is an impact gun. Never had to fight any blades in 10 years of daily repairs for customers.

Today's electric ones are amazing, as well. Almost as powerful as a pneumatic. Some brands are right there. That Harbor Freight Earthquake has proven itself in commercial settings. Best bang for the buck out there, I'd say.

Hex socket instead of 12 point, an a 30" breaker bar an it came right off. New blades make it feel like a new mower.

I use an air impact wrench

I use a Dewalt 20 volt battery powered DCF880 Impact wrench. Never have a problem getting the blades off (or on, never use a torque wrench). Usually the blade nut just pops after a few impacts.

Had a blade on an old tractor years ago. Used a corded Impact wrench on it, took about 5 minutes of pounding, but it finally popped loose. Had been on ?? years.

Can't recommend Dewalt 20 volt tools stronger. They make all work simple and last and last.

BTW, I don't use impact sockets. Never had a regular socket fail (I use Craftsmen). Suppose I should, but can't justify the price based of how little I need them.

Yeah Craftsman sockets (that my DAD owned ) and Never-seize on the bolts have given me years of trouble free service

Electric 1/2" drive impact wrench. $50 at Harbor Freight.

Hustler27 said:

So I still can't get the first blade I tried to replace off yet, but I decided to try the other two. Came off no problem. Image below seems to suggest why not to wait seven years to replace your blades. I'm thinking if I can get the third one off and replace all three, I'll see a difference when I mow again.

Click to expand...

Looks like someone owns a grinder. Grinders take off an excessive amount of material. I use a hand file. Easy to sharpen the blade and most of the time, blade doesn't need balancing adjustments. Only takes two minutes per blade, nearly the same as a grinder. Plus with a hand file, the bevel and edge is flatter.

Once you get the blade bolts off, use anti-seize on the threads. Check your manual but most take around 40 ft/lbs of torque.

slomo

slomo

slomo said:

Looks like someone owns a grinder. Grinders take off an excessive amount of material.

Click to expand...

Actually they appear to have normal wear for an age of seven years. (Remember that some yards, especially those in the south, have very tough grasses. Not to mention sand and dirt). My blades (northern Indiana) wear like this after several years.

I sometimes use a file, it takes forever if their not new. All blades should be balanced. It's not how much you removed, it's how much wear they been exposed to.

bertsmobile1 said:

I do use grease , copper, nickel & graphite anti sieze but being properly trained,only in places where it is appropriate to do so and then because I am properly trained the tension applied to the fastener is reduced to the appropriate level to compensate for the reduction in the dynamic friction between the contact faces of the threads .

Click to expand...

In my metallurgy course we spent a couple weeks on thread lubricants, anti corrosion and thread locking products. I have a chart showing thread compounds and torque compensation % + or - of dry torque.

I just use an electric impact and never have a problem getting my blades off. I don't even have to block them to keep them from turning. They impact is so fast it breaks them loose before they turn.

enigma-2 said:

Never had a regular socket fail (I use Craftsmen).

Click to expand...

I've had the chrome flake off hard enough to cut my face. Glad I was wearing glasses. I don't use chrome on impacts anymore. Of course, I only use that cheap SnapOn stuff.

The Chairman said:

I've had the chrome flake off hard enough to cut my face. Glad I was wearing glasses. I don't use chrome on impacts anymore. Of course, I only use that cheap SnapOn stuff.

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Standard chrome sockets are not made for impact guns. That's why we have the black ones made for impact guns.

slomo

I fought for a few months trying to remove my blades before I broke down and bought the Blade Removal Tool (Hustler pn# 381442). Those bolts are torqued to 118 ft lbs (per my owners manual). This tool slips over the ends of two blades and keeps them from turning while you break the nuts loose, but I still needed a breaker bar. Perhaps if anti-seize had been used a chunk of 2x4 would have been enough. Anyway, this tool was one of the best ~$25 I've spent. Good luck!

Hustler27 said:

So I still can't get the first blade I tried to replace off yet, but I decided to try the other two. Came off no problem. Image below seems to suggest why not to wait seven years to replace your blades. I'm thinking if I can get the third one off and replace all three, I'll see a difference when I mow again.

Click to expand...

You will see a differancew as the grass will be cut off rather than beat off.

I have a Grasshopper. There is a fiber washer above the blade and below between the steel washer. I assume this works as a clutch to lessen impact to the machine if a blade hits an obstruction. Are other mowers not set up like that. I am not familiar with many mowers.

Also I use never seize on the bolts. Remove with a 1/2 inch impact and replace with a 3/8 cordless that has an absolute maximum of 100 ft./lbs. Iusually remove and sharpen the blades every 10 acres, 2nd mowing. Maybe once a month.

qmark said:

.......I have a Grasshopper. There is a fiber washer above the blade and below between the steel washer. I assume this works as a clutch to lessen impact to the machine if a blade hits an obstruction. Are other mowers not set up like that......

Click to expand...

Could you post a picture of exactly what you stated above?

i'd like to see that....never heard of that.

This is an ebay listing for them. As stated, one between the spindle and the blade, one between the washer on the bolt and the blade.

....i appreciate your effort qmark but that wasn't exactly the picture that I was asking about for you to post.

I was hoping that you would of posted a picture of the actual assembly from your mower's spindle showing the exact arrangement of the washer's and blade?

It's ok though, it's all good.

I take it that in a typical setup, blades would be locked to the shaft by a blade adapter with pins/star that would shear off on impact, protecting the drive system. It sounds like in this setup, there are no pins, but the blade is held against a fiber washer by the blade bolt, with the fiber washer providing enough friction against the metal washer to hold the blade for normal cutting, but allow some slippage if the blade hits an object?

Blade bolts self-tighten as you mow, they have to or they would come off, so they can be REAL TIGHT!
I've never met a blade bolt I couldn't get out, even completely rounded off bolt heads!

But the morale of this story is....I disassembled vehicles in an Auto Recycler / Salvage Yard for 25+ yrs so I figured out how to get ANY & ALL bolts out!

Mr. Mower said:

....i appreciate your effort qmark but that wasn't exactly the picture that I was asking about for you to post.

I was hoping that you would of posted a picture of the actual assembly from your mower's spindle showing the exact arrangement of the washer's and blade?

It's ok though, it's all good.

Click to expand...

It is simple enough. Spindle ---fiber washer----blade----fiber washer------steel washer-----bolt.

I sure learned a lot about metal. Thank you.

Off with 1/2" Ingersoll, on with a torque wrench to spec. I always torque to spec. I do not want my wrench to be the inspiration for a Pixar movie about an expensive, lonely torque wrench in the back of the drawer. Although I could use some of that "Toy Story" money.

lefty2cox said:

I sure learned a lot about metal. Thank you.

Off with 1/2" Ingersoll, on with a torque wrench to spec. I always torque to spec. I do not want my wrench to be the inspiration for a Pixar movie about an expensive, lonely torque wrench in the back of the drawer. Although I could use some of that "Toy Story" money.

Click to expand...

While all of the Snap-On and Matco tools hang out together and make fun of him....

that might fly....

Hustler27 said:

So I still can't get the first blade I tried to replace off yet, but I decided to try the other two. Came off no problem. Image below seems to suggest why not to wait seven years to replace your blades. I'm thinking if I can get the third one off and replace all three, I'll see a difference when I mow again.

Click to expand...

what i found makes the job easy is get a 3/4" metal plumbing pipe about 2ft long and two short sections of chain with nut and bolt to make two loops around the pipe with, then slip one chain and pipe over one blade end and then the other end of the blade to make a sort of blade extension then rest it against the other spindle wedged under that blade to secure it. now nothing can slip and you get a large cheater pipe and breaker bar to break the stuck nut loose. it breaks loose easy then

When all else fails use the blue wrench.