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Recommendation between Honda & Toro

Jul 10, 2013#1

S

shekie777

Hi, new to the forum, I need a new mower, would like to keep it under $450, have approx. 12000 sq. ft. to mow, mostly flat terrain, a little uneven, but no slopes or hills. I'm near wetlands so unless I wait till late day, the grass can sometimes be damp. It also grows very quickly and I have a considerable amount of crabgrass & clover in the back yard, along with some grass I seeded this spring.

I'm considering the Honda HRR2169VKA, the Toro 20332 or 20333 with the Briggs & Stratton engine, and the Toro 20372 or 20373 with the new Toro engine.

Couple of questions, from what I can tell, the Toro 20333 & 20373 have the ability to let go of the handle while the motor continues running but the blades stop in order to move toys/furniture etc., the Toro 20332 & 20372, and the Honda do not have this feature. Worth getting?

Can anyone compare or recommend between the Briggs & Stratton engine and the new Toro engine if I decide to get a Toro?

Finally, between Honda & Toro, do I get the Honda which the guy at Home Depot said is a better cutting, more reliable machine, or one of the Toro's with the blade stop feature, the washport and the slightly lower pricing? I plan on mulching most of the time rather than bagging.

Thanks!

Jul 10, 2013#2

R

Rivets

I would recommend the Toro models 20382 or 20383 over the 20332 or 20333. The main difference, which is worth it, is the cast aluminum deck. I have found no disadvantages to the new Toro engineered engine. What ever you buy, please go to a local dealer and not the big box stores, you'll never regret it.

Jul 10, 2013#3

S

shekie777

Rivets said:
I would recommend the Toro models 20382 or 20383 over the 20332 or 20333. The main difference, which is worth it, is the cast aluminum deck. I have found no disadvantages to the new Toro engineered engine. What ever you buy, please go to a local dealer and not the big box stores, you'll never regret it.

Thanks for your reply. I'm not familiar with those models, can you explain the advantage of getting an aluminum deck over steel? Weight advantage, grass doesn't stick to the bottom, doesn't rust out?

Jul 10, 2013#4

R

Rivets

All of the above, plus better drive wheels, no flexing in the deck, more handle height adjustment, not fixed. For every 20332 we sell, we will sell 6 of the 20382. Just overall a better unit which will last twice as long.

Jul 10, 2013#5

lawn mower fanatic

shekie777 said:
Couple of questions, from what I can tell, the Toro 20333 & 20373 have the ability to let go of the handle while the motor continues running but the blades stop in order to move toys/furniture etc., the Toro 20332 & 20372, and the Honda do not have this feature. Worth getting?

...

Finally, between Honda & Toro, do I get the Honda which the guy at Home Depot said is a better cutting, more reliable machine, or one of the Toro's with the blade stop feature, the washport and the slightly lower pricing? I plan on mulching most of the time rather than bagging.

On these types of questions Rivets will most likely always say Toro, and I will always say Honda. But here goes. To answer your first question, the blade brake clutch (BBC) is a useful feature in my opinion. You can get the Honda HRR216VYA with that feature. The MSRP of the VYA is over your budget, but if you buy it from Home Depot (which I don't recommend) or a JD dealer, their prices can be $100 cheaper. I would get the Honda because I think it would mulch better and the engines are reliable, but then again in your case you might want to consider the Toro because it has the BCC without getting the mower out of your price range (looking at MSRP's). I don't care for the washout ports.

Jul 10, 2013#6

S

shekie777

I forgot to mention one other consideration in purchasing, is either brand's engine significantly quieter than the other?

Also, what is a JD dealer? I would much prefer to purchase from a smaller dealer than a big box unless the price difference between the two is prohibitive.

Jul 10, 2013#7

Ric

shekie777 said:
Hi, new to the forum, I need a new mower, would like to keep it under $450, have approx. 12000 sq. ft. to mow, mostly flat terrain, a little uneven, but no slopes or hills. I'm near wetlands so unless I wait till late day, the grass can sometimes be damp. It also grows very quickly and I have a considerable amount of crabgrass & clover in the back yard, along with some grass I seeded this spring.

I'm considering the Honda HRR2169VKA, the Toro 20332 or 20333 with the Briggs & Stratton engine, and the Toro 20372 or 20373 with the new Toro engine.

Couple of questions, from what I can tell, the Toro 20333 & 20373 have the ability to let go of the handle while the motor continues running but the blades stop in order to move toys/furniture etc., the Toro 20332 & 20372, and the Honda do not have this feature. Worth getting?

Can anyone compare or recommend between the Briggs & Stratton engine and the new Toro engine if I decide to get a Toro?

Finally, between Honda & Toro, do I get the Honda which the guy at Home Depot said is a better cutting, more reliable machine, or one of the Toro's with the blade stop feature, the washport and the slightly lower pricing? I plan on mulching most of the time rather than bagging.

Thanks!

Out of the mowers listed or mentioned, my choice would be the Toro 20373. The BBC or Blade Override Control is a great feature to have, I use it on my Turf-Master all the time it saves a lot of time and I'd rather have the Kohler engine on the 20373 than the Briggs any day. As far as the washout ports go there about useless. Would the 20373 be a better mower than the Honda? For the money you're wanting to spend or your budget, it would definitely be a better choice.

Jul 10, 2013#8

J

JSB33

First a warning, I am a new Honda owner and I am pretty impressed with it.

I have always felt that the Honda engine runs much quieter than anything else. They sound as thought they are not running at full throttle when they are.
As far as mowing performance, I just got rid of a Toro recycler that I used for years before I picked up the new Honda and there was no comparison. The Mulching of even grass that is even a bit wet is far superior with the Honda.
If you do go Toro, I would take Rivets advice and get the aluminum deck over the pressed steel. You won't be sorry.
When I was shopping around, I checked out a Toro with a Honda engine. Its higher than your price limit but it looked pretty good.
Before you decide though take a good look at the wheels and how they are mounted. One area I was never crazy about with the steel decked Toro.

And as everyone above has said, go to a independent dealer, you will much better off. If the local dealer is priced higher than the Big Boxes, then ask them to match the price. The you will have the best of both worlds.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Jul 10, 2013#9

Ric

shekie777 said:
I forgot to mention one other consideration in purchasing, is either brand's engine significantly quieter than the other?

Also, what is a JD dealer? I would much prefer to purchase from a smaller dealer than a big box unless the price difference between the two is prohibitive.

Also, what is a JD dealer? JD stands for John Deere. As far as an engine being significantly quieter, there's no such thing. Some may have a different sound but none are quiet.:smile:

Jul 10, 2013#10

lawn mower fanatic

shekie777 said:
...

Also, what is a JD dealer? I would much prefer to purchase from a smaller dealer than a big box unless the price difference between the two is prohibitive.

Ric said:
Also, what is a JD dealer? JD stands for John Deere. As far as an engine being significantly quieter, there's no such thing. Some may have a different sound but none are quiet.:smile:

Yes, Honda mowers are now sold at John Deere dealers, too.

Jul 10, 2013#11

Carscw

lawn mower fanatic said:
Yes, Honda mowers are now sold at John Deere dealers, too.

That is so sad.
I thought Honda was better than that.

Maybe they will paint them that ugly green then all the Honda owners will think there farmers

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 10, 2013#12

lawn mower fanatic

Carscw said:
...Maybe they will paint them that ugly green then all the Honda owners will think there farmers

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Like the picture below I edited? I have nightmares of that! :wink:

Jul 10, 2013#13

Carscw

lawn mower fanatic said:
Like the picture below I edited? I have nightmares of that! :wink:

<img src="http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15570"/>

See what I mean

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 11, 2013#14

Ric

Carscw said:
That is so sad.
I thought Honda was better than that.

Maybe they will paint them that ugly green then all the Honda owners will think there farmers

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

I said along time ago Honda was going in the toilet.

Jul 11, 2013#15

R

Rivets

Lawn mower fanatic is going to say Honda over Toro, because that's what he likes to use as a young landscaper. I say Toro based on years of experience in working on them.

Jul 11, 2013#16

S

shekie777

Thanks to all who have replied, I've narrowed it down to either the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420). I like the Toro BBC & Personal Pace, but there are an awful lot of reviews touting the Honda engine and mulching capabilities, just can't decide.

Either way, I'll be purchasing this evening at a small local dealer, either Farina's in Watertown, MA or O'Connors in Billerica, MA. Last night, my old used Murray finally fell apart, rear left wheel just came off & the machine sat down in my back yard. Well, at least 1/2 my yard is mowed.

Any last minute advice and/or recommendations in choosing between the two?

Jul 11, 2013#17

Ric

shekie777 said:
Thanks to all who have replied, I've narrowed it down to either the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420). I like the Toro BBC & Personal Pace, but there are an awful lot of reviews touting the Honda engine and mulching capabilities, just can't decide.

Either way, I'll be purchasing this evening at a small local dealer, either Farina's in Watertown, MA or O'Connors in Billerica, MA. Last night, my old used Murray finally fell apart, rear left wheel just came off & the machine sat down in my back yard. Well, at least 1/2 my yard is mowed.

Any last minute advice and/or recommendations in choosing between the two?

If you have narrowed it down to the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420) you had better go with the Toro because you wont be happy with that GCV 160cc engine. I'll tell you from my experience I Had one and the thing is terrible. It doesn't do the job, mine had no power, it bogged down all the time in most any type of grass, It was a joke.

Jul 11, 2013#18

lawn mower fanatic

Ric said:
If you have narrowed it down to the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420) you had better go with the Toro because you wont be happy with that GCV 160cc engine. I'll tell you from my experience I Had one and the thing is terrible. It doesn't do the job, mine had no power, it bogged down all the time in most any type of grass, It was a joke.

It can bog down in tall grass, but if the grass isn't very tall or wet it will do fine. And you think the 159cc engine on the Toro will do better?

Jul 11, 2013#19

S

shekie777

Ric said:
If you have narrowed it down to the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420) you had better go with the Toro because you wont be happy with that GCV 160cc engine. I'll tell you from my experience I Had one and the thing is terrible. It doesn't do the job, mine had no power, it bogged down all the time in most any type of grass, It was a joke.

lawn mower fanatic said:
It can bog down in tall grass, but if the grass isn't very tall or wet it will do fine. And you think the 159cc engine on the Toro will do better?

Where I live, there are wetlands behind my house around 1/3 mile away and my town is known for its high water table. There are times when the grass will be a bit wet, though I try not let the grass get too high. I have approx. 11500 sq. ft. divided between the front and back yard, the terrain while mostly flat is a bit bumpy in places in the back yard.

Are you both saying that either of the mowers I'm considering are underpowered and aren't up to the task? For reference, I was using some old Murray I was gifted with 7.25 ft. lbs. of torque and it seemed to work fine until the back wheels fell off last night.

Is there something else I should be considering without blowing up my budget? I'm willing to go up to around $500 if I have to, but I am not looking at something in the $600-$700 range. Please advise as I intend to get this done this evening after work. Thanks...

Jul 11, 2013#20

Parkmower

I have no experience with either of the two you listed. But i'd go with the Toro. I am a fan of Honda engines. I am a bigger toro fan.

Jul 11, 2013#21

Ric

lawn mower fanatic said:
It can bog down in tall grass, but if the grass isn't very tall or wet it will do fine. And you think the 159cc engine on the Toro will do better?

Do I think the Toro will do better, I really don't know but what I do know is it sure couldn't do any worse. The thing is when I purchased my Honda with the GCV I sold it like two or three weeks later because it was so bad and I know people mite say well you just had a bad mower and I mite agree if it wasn't for the fact I ended up with another with the same engine that had never been used from my parents and it was just as bad as the one I purchased so it just wasn't the one I bought. IMO he do well to stay as far away from that Honda 160 as he could.

Jul 11, 2013#22

Ric

shekie777 said:
Where I live, there are wetlands behind my house around 1/3 mile away and my town is known for its high water table. There are times when the grass will be a bit wet, though I try not let the grass get too high. I have approx. 11500 sq. ft. divided between the front and back yard, the terrain while mostly flat is a bit bumpy in places in the back yard.

Are you both saying that either of the mowers I'm considering are underpowered and aren't up to the task? For reference, I was using some old Murray I was gifted with 7.25 ft. lbs. of torque and it seemed to work fine until the back wheels fell off last night.

Is there something else I should be considering without blowing up my budget? I'm willing to go up to around $500 if I have to, but I am not looking at something in the $600-$700 range. Please advise as I intend to get this done this evening after work. Thanks...

If I had 11500 sq. ft. I wouldn't be looking any less than a 190cc engine. My experience with the Honda is underpowered and not up to the task, Kohler I can't say but I'd rather take a chance on it than the Honda. Thing is Honda had to have something to pass off to the consumer or residential owner because the 190cc they were using they put on their cheaper commercial mower so the 160cc was there choice and IMO and it may not be nice but the Honda160 is pure JUNK.

Look you can buy what ever you want, it doesn't make any difference to me but if I were you I'd postpone your purchase and do a little more research because you can do a lot better for your money.

Jul 11, 2013#23

Carscw

I agree the 160 is under powered on both mowers. I you looked at a used mower?
Might get more mower for your money

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 11, 2013#24

Ric

Shekie777 if your set on the honda and your budget is $500 or less try this,

Craftsman 190cc Self-Propelled Mower: Hassle-Free Mowing At Sears

Not that I'm a fan of sears but it at least has the 190cc Honda engine and BBC and the other goodies your looking for and it's $474.00.... My point is there are mowers out there in your price range.

Jul 11, 2013#25

lawn mower fanatic

shekie777 said:
...

Is there something else I should be considering without blowing up my budget? I'm willing to go up to around $500 if I have to, but I am not looking at something in the $600-$700 range. Please advise as I intend to get this done this evening after work. Thanks...

Yeah I would wait to buy a mower until a bit later. I would say buy one of the Honda's with the 190cc engines (GCV190 on the HRX's) because they are plenty powerful, but even if you buy the HRX217VKA (the cheapest HRX), and you buy it from a John Deere dealer, or even Home Depot

mur

, where the prices are $100 cheaper than the MSRP, it still costs $599. :confused2:

Jul 11, 2013#26

lawn mower fanatic

Ric said:
Shekie777 if your set on the honda and your budget is $500 or less try this,

Craftsman 190cc Self-Propelled Mower: Hassle-Free Mowing At Sears

Not that I'm a fan of sears but it at least has the 190cc Honda engine. $474.00 My point is there are mowers out there in your price range.

It looks cheap IMO, but it is in your budget! :thumbsup:

Jul 11, 2013#27

Carscw

Craftsman is a good mower for what you are looking to spend.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 11, 2013#28

Ric

lawn mower fanatic said:
It looks cheap IMO, but it is in your budget! :thumbsup:

Well it has the Blade stop feature with a steel deck, the Honda 190cc engine, Varible speedcontrol with a dual trigger, a single point cutting height adjustment from 1.50 to 4 inches,Wheel bearing front and back and a clean out for what thats worth and it' has 7.25 ft. lbs. of touque which he asked about. What more could you ask for for $474.00 and sears isn't bad for standing behind there stuff as I hear it. Oh you could at least put up the right picture.

Jul 11, 2013#29

exotion

Ric said:
If you have narrowed it down to the Honda HRR2169VKA ($430) or the Toro 20373 ($420) you had better go with the Toro because you wont be happy with that GCV 160cc engine. I'll tell you from my experience I Had one and the thing is terrible. It doesn't do the job, mine had no power, it bogged down all the time in most any type of grass, It was a joke.

interesting I have and use the 160 engine everyday in all types of grass wet or dry long and short weeds etc the thing has never bogged down... not once. Its been more than enough power. I have used the toro with the kaw engine the proline series and yes I agree that engine is 1000 times better. But the 160 engine is a good engines.

The rest of the hrr... well if you plan on using it a lot be prepared to buy drive wheels. Belt quite often and get rid of the quadra cut blades they are garbage. Grab the micro cut and put them on they fit and are superior in every way.

Jul 11, 2013#30

Carscw

exotion said:
interesting I have and use the 160 engine everyday in all types of grass wet or dry long and short weeds etc the thing has never bogged down... not once. Its been more than enough power. I have used the toro with the kaw engine the proline series and yes I agree that engine is 1000 times better. But the 160 engine is a good engines.

The rest of the hrr... well if you plan on using it a lot be prepared to buy drive wheels. Belt quite often and get rid of the quadra cut blades they are garbage. Grab the micro cut and put them on they fit and are superior in every way.

So what you are saying is that the RPMs never change when you get into long wet grass?

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 11, 2013#31

exotion

Carscw said:
So what you are saying is that the RPMs never change when you get into long wet grass?

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Hardly ever and when the sound does change it doesn't affect cutting power or walking speed it has never bogged down enough to slow the blade or stop completely. I am saying that pretty much everything else on the hrr seems to be put on there for the effort of cheap. I have replaced the front wheels with some with bearings. The rear tires with rubber hr215 the blades with microcut blades. Had to remove the pop washer from rear wheels. Add a couple washers to both front quarters and I've dented the deck

The only things I have been impressed with is the gcv160 and the smart drive. So between the two if pressed with an option I would go with the toro as the honda is kinda ..well cheap. I have not used the gcv190 and have no opinions on it but the toro briggs engine I have on my super recycler is also crap the only way I could suck any power out of it was putting a manual throttle cable on it and running it wot.

Jul 11, 2013#32

Carscw

Forget all the fancy stuff just get a snapper

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

Jul 11, 2013#33

exotion

Carscw said:
Forget all the fancy stuff just get a snapper

<img src="http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15584"/>

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

That's a bit of a crazy mower sir. One of yours?

Jul 11, 2013#34

Carscw

exotion said:
That's a bit of a crazy mower sir. One of yours?

The guys at the snapper dealer were bored so they built this.
My only part in it was to show them how to put a blade on it.

I started to build one but never finished it.
Can never have to much horse power.

(( racing is the only sport that you need two balls ))

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Recommendation between Honda & Toro

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