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OK, this may seem a little naive, but its never occured to me until now. Is two stroke oil all the same? I have a Craftsman chain saw that uses a 40:1 mix and a Stihl edger that uses a 50:1 mix. I've run out of the 2.6 oz. oil containers that I've been using in my old 50:1 edger/trimmer. I have Craftsman two stroke oil in 3.2 oz. containers and it states that its for 40:1 mix. Is the Craftsman oil just labelled for 40:1 because of the amount in the container and it would be safe to use it in the proper ratio of 2.6 oz. per gallon in my Stihl edger? If so I can just dump 3.2 oz of the Craftsman oil into 1.25 gallons of gas. I rarely use my chainsaw and figured I might as well use up the oil I have for it before buying more if I can.

Other than the additives used by whatever brand the ration is determined by the volume and not what the oil is made of.

Cool. I figured it was strictly by volume, but sure enough, if I didn't ask I'd have been wrong and mixed a bunch of gas I couldn't use. Or worse yet, used it and messed something up. Thanks.

Yep, you're good to go.:smile:

Other than synthetic vs. dino. there are two types of 2-stroke oil, one for air-cooled engines and one for water-cooled. You don't really want to interchange those because air-cooled engines can run very hot and water-cooled ones, especially older outboards with no thermostats, can run below optimal temperature. Also, engine manufacturers will specify the mix ratio, usually with a specific recommended oil, whereas many oil manufacturers, particularly synthetic, will leaner ratios, claiming their oil is "superior". Unless you want to experiment, go by what the engine manufacturer recommends.

When I was young and living on the farm (40's) as I remember in all 2 cycle engines my father used non detergent 30 oil. They cut a lot of wood with big 2 cycle two man chain saws. Then in the early 60's when I first stated riding 2 cycle engine snowmobiles I used 30 non detergent oil. I never had any engine problems other then I used a lot of spark plugs. Bought spark plugs by the case. Then they started to come out with the 2 cycle oils and the spark plug troubles went away. Now this pass summer I was talking with a older person that heated his house with wood. I got talking with him about oil and he told me that the only oil he ever used in his 2 cycle chain saws was 10W30 car motor oil. Myself I use the proper 2 cycle oil in what I am using just because I don't want problems and it just doesn't cost any more and also I think it has to be better for the equipment. But as I see it it really wouldn't matter what 2 cycle oil you used as long as it mixes with the gas, needed oil in a pinch or wanted to use something up. The only time I real ever had a 2 cycle engine burn the piston up was when the engine was running with the fuel mixture too lean not the wrong oil.

a lot of the old saws called for 16:1 ratio and the recommended mix was 8 ounces of 30w non detergent motor oil. After they started using 2 cycle oil many were switched over to a 32:1 mix.

Wow, thanks for the history lessons in 2 stroke oil. So they actually came out with the engines before the 2 stroke specific oils to use in them? Well, on second thought I guess that makes sense. Just out of curiosity what happens if you run a higher oil content mix than required, i.e. 40:1 in a 50:1 motor? Will it just not run as well and foul the plug or will it likely damage the engine?

Not only can running a richer oil ratio foul the plug(s), it also leans out the fuel ratio (less gasoline to air). That can cause overheating and detonation. So, it's not a good idea to use more oil "just to be safe".

I have thought about that and has brought up at my engine update meetings but lets look at it in another way. Doubling the mix ratio say from 50:1 to 25:1 only makes a 2 % change in the amount of gas being consumed. If 2 % is enough to cause an engine to run lean and overhead I would think you already have a problem with the engine.

Oddball said:

Wow, thanks for the history lessons in 2 stroke oil. So they actually came out with the engines before the 2 stroke specific oils to use in them? Well, on second thought I guess that makes sense. Just out of curiosity what happens if you run a higher oil content mix than required, i.e. 40:1 in a 50:1 motor? Will it just not run as well and foul the plug or will it likely damage the engine?

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40:1 or 50:1 I can't see where it would make any difference. Now if you get it down say to 20:1 it would just foul your plug and if ran for long periods you would get a lot of carbon build up and problems like carbon on the piston hitting the head. The company that made and design the engine knows what oil to use and how much and for what it cost why not use the right oil and amount?

Probably wouldn't make a difference in a low performance application like a lawnmower. Most of my 2-stroke experience is from racing motocross and snowmobiles in the 1960s and '70s where I holed my share of pistons.

Once upon a time, in the mid 80s, I had a 1971 100hp Johnson outboard. I was under the impression that a richer mixture of oil-gas, the more oil the better off the motor would be, was the way to go. One day the motor started missing, thought it was a fouled plug.....not. I had to pull the motor apart due to almost zero compression on one of the cylinders. I found all the pistons were a total gummy mess, rings stuck, etc. So, I cleaned everything up,:ashamed: replaced the rings and all was well. But, the a well respected boat mechanic told me 50:1 ratio was only needed at high speeds, and that at low and trolling speeds the motor did not need even half that. So, what I was doing was killin' my motor with that 'extra' oil richness instead of helping it. An expensive lesson......

Well, back in the day when I had my first outboard (late 50s - early 60s) I remember a ratio of 1:16 being common. (Well, before that, when I was into model airplane engines I remember 1:3.) Anyway, I thought I was being adventurous using Mercury oil that was mixed 1:32. Then came 1:50 and eventually 1:100. Of course, the engines improved greatly over the years, going from plain bearings to needles and rollers and better piston alloys, as well as better oils.

We are probably close to the same age, me 63. Dad had a service station about a mile from Watts Bar Reservoir, Tennessee River. 'Bout '59 through '65 I also well remember putting MANY cans of 30w oil into MANY 6 gallon gas cans for the boats stopping in. Best I remember everybody wanted a qt. of oil to the 6 gallons. That same 30w we also put into cars. I remember one dude always had his own oil for his boat, said it was special made for his engine..............:biggrin:

wildbill said:

We are probably close to the same age, me 63. Dad had a service station about a mile from Watts Bar Reservoir, Tennessee River. 'Bout '59 through '65 I also well remember putting MANY cans of 30w oil into MANY 6 gallon gas cans for the boats stopping in. Best I remember everybody wanted a qt. of oil to the 6 gallons. That same 30w we also put into cars. I remember one dude always had his own oil for his boat, said it was special made for his engine..............:biggrin:

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WildBill, you're showin' yer age there ole timer! :wink: You've got me by 17 years. What a difference a generation makes sometimes. Or sometimes not even a full generation. I don't think I ever remember hearing of a two stroke engine until I was well into my teens. We always had four stroke mowers, the only engine powered equipment we suburbanites needed back in the day, other than a car. If we wanted weeds cut or lawns edged, we broke out the clippers, scythes and hand push edgers. We never had a boat, but my best friend's dad did. It had a 40hp outboard Evinrude, but it was a four stroke also. At least I assume it was. I was with them on it a lot and never remember his dad mixing oil in the gas tank.

Oddball said:

WildBill, you're showin' yer age there ole timer! :wink: You've got me by 17 years. What a difference a generation makes sometimes. Or sometimes not even a full generation. I don't think I ever remember hearing of a two stroke engine until I was well into my teens. We always had four stroke mowers, the only engine powered equipment we suburbanites needed back in the day, other than a car. If we wanted weeds cut or lawns edged, we broke out the clippers, scythes and hand push edgers. We never had a boat, but my best friend's dad did. It had a 40hp outboard Evinrude, but it was a four stroke also. At least I assume it was. I was with them on it a lot and never remember his dad mixing oil in the gas tank.

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Wow! I guess at 70 I'm a really old fart! Back when you thought outboards were only 4-strokes, I thought 4-stroke outboards were a novelty. Very heavy, low performance, expensive and complicated. Nothing you could rebuild out on the lake with tools in your tackle box. I still have a boat with a 1969 Merc 650 (the good ones with 4 cylinders, not the new 3-cylinder ones) on it and you mix the oil with the gas. I guess the next generation won't even know what 2-strokes are. So sad.

Drop the 'r' in the descriptive word to an 'ah', its gives it grace and wisdom. (faaht) It would be a Boston type of 'r'.
:smile:
You being 70 is cool! I only hope I can still ring in as well for years to come. :wink:

My Dad purchased a Sears lawnmower in 1954, and it was a 2-stroke, 18" cut. We had a 1/2 acre yard and that's aot of laps with 18". The mower finally croaked about 1966 due to needing rings which could not be found at the time. :smile:

It wasn't too long ago (at least in my time scale) that 2-stroke push mowers were still sold. They were the cheapest ones. I guess it was environmental concerns and dumb people forgetting to add oil to the gas that finally led to their demise. It's interesting that most weed whackers are still 2-stroke. Four-strokes will never equal their light weight and power/weight ratio.

And since this thread is about 2-stroke oil, I have an interesting story. Back in the day, a friend of mine used to road race a Manx Norton. Back then the ultimate racing oil was Castrol "R", the main ingredient of which was castor oil. It was quite expensive, about $4/quart (cheap motor oil was 40 cents). After he drained the oil from his Manx at the end of a day of racing, he used it in the gas for his 2-stroke lawn mower. When he cut the grass, the whole street was bathed in the sweet aroma of "R".

Amazing how technology has changed over the years. There are several different job-specific specially formulated 2-stroke oils out there, including biodegradeable versions for use in water craft.:thumbsup:

This spring I bought a new mower and I have been mixing one ounce of synthetic 2 stroke oil per gallon of gas for a little upper cylinder lubrication.

Black Bart said:

This spring I bought a new mower and I have been mixing one ounce of synthetic 2 stroke oil per gallon of gas for a little upper cylinder lubrication.

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All you are doing is making carbon on top of the pistons and valves. Doing more harm then good.

reynoldston said:

All you are doing is making carbon on top of the pistons and valves. Doing more harm then good.

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That small amount will burn during combustion.

I have seen engine run top oilers for years without carbon buildup.

2 things you are not considering #1 it is a premium synthetic made to be run through the engine and #2 it is a much smaller amount than what would be used in a 2 stroke.

Old myths die hard don't they.

wildbill said:

We are probably close to the same age, me 63. Dad had a service station about a mile from Watts Bar Reservoir, Tennessee River. 'Bout '59 through '65

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WOW ..... I live in Chattanooga, and have fished Watts Bar for many years. More likely than not, I have purchased fuel from your Dad's station somewhere along the line. :thumbsup:

wildbill said:

I also well remember putting MANY cans of 30w oil into MANY 6 gallon gas cans for the boats stopping in. Best I remember everybody wanted a qt. of oil to the 6 gallons. That same 30w we also put into cars. I remember one dude always had his own oil for his boat, said it was special made for his engine..............:biggrin:

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Wait a minute ........ you were putting 30W engine oil in the fuel and NOT 2-cycle oil? I never heard of that being done before.

When I owned my hovercraft I had a 2 stroke Rotax on it. The mix was 50:1 and she had HIGH rpm's, I think it was around 6000 rpm at full throttle. There was an additive that made the exhaust smell like blue berries, I will try and find it again. It was really interesting and I received a lot of comments about it.

Dave

kermit911 said:

There was an additive that made the exhaust smell like blue berries, I will try and find it again. It was really interesting and I received a lot of comments about it.

Dave

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There are several "aromatic" additives that are available for addition to the fuel mixture. Most (if not all) do nothing for the lubrication are are advertised as such. The only "aromatically recognizable" lubricant that I can recall was KLOTZ 2-cycle Racing Oil. We used it extensively in our 2-stroke Kart engines and also our bass boats. It has a very distinctive aroma.

Hidalgo said:

There are several "aromatic" additives that are available for addition to the fuel mixture. Most (if not all) do nothing for the lubrication are are advertised as such. The only "aromatically recognizable" lubricant that I can recall was KLOTZ 2-cycle Racing Oil. We used it extensively in our 2-stroke Kart engines and also our bass boats. It has a very distinctive aroma.

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I used that stuff years ago in a CZ race Bike that I rode Motor X with.:biggrin:

Black Bart said:

I used that stuff years ago in a CZ race Bike that I rode Motor X with.:biggrin:

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Hey, you rode a CZ? I had two of them, a twin-pipe 250, then a '69 250. Rode 250 Junior in Southern Ontario and a couple of times in NH, VT and MA. I won the Ontario Junior Championship and came 2nd in the Canadian Junior Championship in 1966.

oldyellr said:

Hey, you rode a CZ? I had two of them, a twin-pipe 250, then a '69 250. Rode 250 Junior in Southern Ontario and a couple of times in NH, VT and MA. I won the Ontario Junior Championship and came 2nd in the Canadian Junior Championship in 1966.

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Small world isn't it. Mine was a 1970 360

I also drove a sprint car for about 10 years.

oldyellr said:

Hey, you rode a CZ? I had two of them, a twin-pipe 250, then a '69 250. Rode 250 Junior in Southern Ontario and a couple of times in NH, VT and MA. I won the Ontario Junior Championship and came 2nd in the Canadian Junior Championship in 1966.

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A CZ? The only CZs that I ever saw were running behind my OSSA Plunker ....... :wink: :laughing:

Hidalgo said:

A CZ? The only CZs that I ever saw were running behind my OSSA Plunker ....... :wink: :laughing:

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Hey, I still have a 1971 250 Ossa Enduro in the shed. Ossas were okay, but not the World Championship calibre of CZs. While on the subject, I also had a Bultaco Sherpa 'T' trials bike. Lots of 2-stroke experience.

ILENGINE said:

I have thought about that and has brought up at my engine update meetings but lets look at it in another way. Doubling the mix ratio say from 50:1 to 25:1 only makes a 2 % change in the amount of gas being consumed. If 2 % is enough to cause an engine to run lean and overhead I would think you already have a problem with the engine.

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This is my entry onto this forum, so here goes. I've been a LB user since mid 90's My first one was a basic lightweight deck model (no self propelled) and it ran for 23 years in Rochester, NY without a problem. Two years ago I started it and it made a horrible noise that suggested the internals had broken. Haven't opened it up as my wife had just bought me a new self propelled Snapper with electric start at Walmart I think. Next LB was a 2005 self propelled 10323 I bought for my house in Dallas. Much smaller lawn, and not as maneuverable as the old model. I've had starting problems with it and brought it to a local repair store and that helped. Now my questions: I've always used the 32:1 gas to oil mixture (2 gallons of premium gas to 8 oz. of 2 cycle oil and occasional additions of the white Sea Foam as an additive. I remember that a local small engine store said that 40:1 or even 50:1 ratio would work with not as much smoking. My 10323 does smoke when it starts up and it goes away after five minutes of use, but I considered that normal. I've googled 40:1 ratios and most replies say it works if one uses a high quality oil and results in less smoking, One thing I've read is that in "older" self propelled LB's, the drive mechanism needs the 30:1 ratio for maintaining lubrication. Does this apply to my 10323?
Another question: I saw a 1.8 fl. oz. tube of US-2 2 cycle lubricant ("smokeless E-GD++") at a Walmart stating "one mix for ALL 2-cycle engines". Directions - "mix with one gallon of gas & agitate thoroughly" I googled the product and found one user praising it on a Tractor Supply web site. He has a Husqvarna handheld 125B blower, "This, when mixed with a gallon of fuel (128 ounces), gives you a mix ratio of 71:1. " Using this instead of 8 oz. of 2-cycle oil seems VERY RISKY. I might try 3 tubes to my 2 gallons of premium unleaded. Your comments?

2 stroke oil has improved in quality over the years which is one reason for the higher and higher mix ratios. I am not a fan of the one mix stuff I just think that you run into running too lean on oil since some of those products are 100:1. Which I think could cause issues in some of the older 32 or 40:1 stuff, maybe not so much in 50:1. Poulan went from 40 to 50:1 on their products and never even made a mention about it, and their premix gas cans are labeled both 40:1 and 50:1, which doesn't seem possible or are they saying it is safe to use 50:1 in products that were previously 40:1 or are they just trying to shorten the life of older equipment so it gets replaced.

ILENGINE said:

2 stroke oil has improved in quality over the years which is one reason for the higher and higher mix ratios. I am not a fan of the one mix stuff I just think that you run into running too lean on oil since some of those products are 100:1. Which I think could cause issues in some of the older 32 or 40:1 stuff, maybe not so much in 50:1. Poulan went from 40 to 50:1 on their products and never even made a mention about it, and their premix gas cans are labeled both 40:1 and 50:1, which doesn't seem possible or are they saying it is safe to use 50:1 in products that were previously 40:1 or are they just trying to shorten the life of older equipment so it gets replaced.

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Thanks for the quick reply. One of my questions was buried in my long text and unanswered. It's the one about the LB drive mechanism using the oil in the 32:1 mix for lubrication. Does that force me to stay at 32:1 for my 10323 LB?

Retired, I don't do much work with LB so somebody else would be a better reference than I would on the working internals of that setup.

I've read some on oiling these motors and as usual, the more I read the less I know. But a LB motor runs at about 3000 rpm while most other two strokes these days runs three times that rpm or more. I run Lawn Boy oil in the stronger mix as they recommend. Runs fine, no smoke, plug burns just right.

Amsoil has a 2 stroke oil called Saber (IIRC) they say it is so good, it can run @ 100:1 ratio in otherwise 50:1 Lawn tools..

Maybe, but I don't think I'm gonna try it. Looked at pricing, low cost, but shipping is outrageous.

Is that not a belt drive? Nothing special internally in the engine?

Retired Lucky said:

Thanks for the quick reply. One of my questions was buried in my long text and unanswered. It's the one about the LB drive mechanism using the oil in the 32:1 mix for lubrication. Does that force me to stay at 32:1 for my 10323 LB?

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