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Pre mixed fuel vs mix it up yourself
#1
C
coffeesnob
C
coffeesnob
I had always run my echo weed eater and husqvarna chain saw with my own mix of fuel and oil . as soon as i switched to the cannned pre mix fuel neither would start. Then i went back to the self mix and my echo starts and runs but not as good as it did. I have not tried the chsinsaw yet. Does this make any sense or is it a coincidence?
#2
kbowley
kbowley
Just use the Echo 2-stroke oil in the 2.6 oz. container mixed with .8 gallons as well as stabilizer. That canned fuel is a massive waste of money and no better than brand name pump gas. Use regular as it is more volatile than premium.
#4
C
coffeesnob
C
coffeesnob
Ok, thanks. I was told by a guy at ace hardware that the ethanol in reg gas destroys these small engines. But they did always seem to run ok on itJust use the Echo 2-stroke oil in the 2.6 oz. container mixed with .8 gallons as well as stabilizer. That canned fuel is a massive waste of money and no better than brand name pump gas. Use regular as it is more volatile than premium.
#5
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
Ethanol will not destroy the engine, but it will affect the carb. The diaphragms and gaskets will become brittle over time, and if ethanol fuel is left in a carb over the off-season, there's a good chance the carb will need a cleaning or rebuild. It's good practice to use ethanol-free fuel. I use ethanol-free fuel in all my equipment. My push mower is 13 yrs old. It's been used every season, and the carb has never been off of it. There are probably people here with equipment much older than that, that still runs like new.Ok, thanks. I was told by a guy at ace hardware that the ethanol in reg gas destroys these small engines. But they did always seem to run ok on it
#6
7394
We cut here @ 4 inches.. Lots of other pushers won't adjust that high.
7394
I also only use Ethanol-FREE gas, & my 22" B&S Flathead push mower is 18 years old & still runs good. And is well cared for. My vintage Honda FG-100 mini-tiller was made in 1998 & still doing it's job albeit 1x per year. (26 years).I use ethanol-free fuel in all my equipment. My push mower is 13 yrs old. It's been used every season, and the carb has never been off of it. There are probably people here with equipment much older than that, that still runs like new.
We cut here @ 4 inches.. Lots of other pushers won't adjust that high.
#7
kbowley
kbowley
I suggest you find out for a fact. Take two coffee cups, place the diaphragms and the rest of the carb in the cups. Fill one with forty dollar a gallon "true fuel" and the other with pump gas and allow both to fully evaporate. let set for a week, repeat the process for a year and then see if there is any difference between the components in each cup. We inquiring minds want to know. Alternately, you can watch YouTube videos and you decide. Hint: Gasoline turns to varnish and leaves behind said on components, ethanol does not. But being that it is only 10% ethanol, which leaves zero varnish, there will be zero difference. Using Sta-Bil WILL make a dramatic difference, period. As you see in the picture, I have a "couple" of restored or original machines around. Ethenol hasn't sent them to the heap yard yet.Ethanol will not destroy the engine, but it will affect the carb. The diaphragms and gaskets will become brittle over time, and if ethanol fuel is left in a carb over the off-season, there's a good chance the carb will need a cleaning or rebuild. It's good practice to use ethanol-free fuel. I use ethanol-free fuel in all my equipment. My push mower is 13 yrs old. It's been used every season, and the carb has never been off of it. There are probably people here with equipment much older than that, that still runs like new.
Attachments
#8
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
My equipment fires up every Spring. I'm happy with my current practices. I can't say the same when I was using E10.I suggest you find out for a fact. Take two coffee cups, place the diaphragms and the rest of the carb in the cups. Fill one with forty dollar a gallon "true fuel" and the other with pump gas and allow both to fully evaporate. let set for a week, repeat the process for a year and then see if there is any difference between the components in each cup. We inquiring minds want to know. Alternately, you can watch YouTube videos and you decide. Hint: Gasoline turns to varnish and leaves behind said on components, ethanol does not. But being that it is only 10% ethanol, there will be zero difference. Using Sta-Bil WILL make a dramatic difference, period.
#9
7394
7394
Ditto.,.My equipment fires up every Spring. I'm happy with my current practices. I can't say the same when I was using E10.
#10
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Based on several YouTube videos I have watched from known good sources, and personal experience seeing canned fuel in customer equipment, my opinion is to steer clear of canned fuel. 10% ethanol fresh fuel mixed 50:1 with good oil , such as Stihl, is the only way to go. 30-60 days old in handheld 2-stroke equipment. All I run is that evil 10% ethanol fuel in all my stuff and never have problems. Keep it fresh and keep it moving. Mix up one gallon at a time.I had always run my echo weed eater and husqvarna chain saw with my own mix of fuel and oil . as soon as i switched to the cannned pre mix fuel neither would start. Then i went back to the self mix and my echo starts and runs but not as good as it did. I have not tried the chsinsaw yet. Does this make any sense or is it a coincidence?
#11
StarTech
StarTech
Just use a Pro Multi Mix oil and don't worry mix ratios if the equipment running anything between 16:1 to 50:1. It contains stabilizers. Here I use to have multiple cans of fuel going bad due all the different mixes. Now I just have one container for all 2 cycle engines. A lot easier to use up and to keep it fresh.
As for the ethanol affecting rubber yes it does dries it out a little faster but even regular fuel does this. Even the fuel additives which is in all fuels will cause problems.
As for the ethanol affecting rubber yes it does dries it out a little faster but even regular fuel does this. Even the fuel additives which is in all fuels will cause problems.
#13
S
SeniorCitizen
S
SeniorCitizen
I;ll ask my personal chemist , but i doubt there's more than a molecule or 2 difference between methanol and ethanol and i've pumped thousands of gallons of meth. from a 500 gal. tank through a rubber hose that's been on the pump for 30 years or more . The hose should be labeled WOG for either one .
#14
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
I used to race go-karts, and we used 100% methanol. I had to replace fuel lines every season, as they would get rock hard by the end of the season.I;ll ask my personal chemist , but i doubt there's more than a molecule or 2 difference between methanol and ethanol and i've pumped thousands of gallons of meth. from a 500 gal. tank through a rubber hose that's been on the pump for 30 years or more . The hose should be labeled WOG for either one .
#15
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
A few years ago, my mom, who was fairly knowledgeable on fuel and power equipment, had a trimmer that wouldn't start. I told her that it was probably bad fuel, but she assured me that it wasn't. The problem for her was that she and my dad used to run a gas station, and she was fairly knowledgeable on gas... from the 70's. Modern fuel is different, and doesn't last as long. She wasn't using her trimmer as much as she used to, and the fuel (E10) was going bad before she could use it up. I replaced her fuel with canned fuel, and her trimmer fired right up. I kept her supplied with canned fuel, and she stopped having "no-start" problems. I have the same trimmer. It runs fairly well on canned fuel, but not as well as premix. On canned fuel, it takes longer to warm up and start running clean. It also seems to cause more misfiring. When I only had a small subdivision lot to maintain, I used about 1 gallon per year, and I used canned fuel. Now, during the growing season, I use 1 gallon per month which would be a bit pricey with canned fuel. Ethanol-free fuel plus 2-cycle oil works out to around $5 per gallon, which seems a bit pricey, but that's still a far cry from $40 per gallon for canned.
#16
7394
7394
Yep, self mixer here...
#17
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
My X1901 2000 vintage Dixie Chopper runs like a champ. Though it is not the orginal engine. Orignal engine was a 19 HP Kawasaki. The engine on it now is a 2006 CV20 Kohler I took off a perfectly good Craftsman Garden Trractor. Never regretted it though.
Ethanol will not destroy the engine, but it will affect the carb. The diaphragms and gaskets will become brittle over time, and if ethanol fuel is left in a carb over the off-season, there's a good chance the carb will need a cleaning or rebuild. It's good practice to use ethanol-free fuel. I use ethanol-free fuel in all my equipment. My push mower is 13 yrs old. It's been used every season, and the carb has never been off of it. There are probably people here with equipment much older than that, that still runs like new.
#18
S
SeniorCitizen
ask or look for WOG stamped on the hose . water / oil / gas
S
SeniorCitizen
Was it WOG ?I used to race go-karts, and we used 100% methanol. I had to replace fuel lines every season, as they would get rock hard by the end of the season.
ask or look for WOG stamped on the hose . water / oil / gas
#19
TonyPrin
TonyPrin
IMO, ethanol can damage small engines, but the issue is over-hyped. Under most circumstances, the use of E10 gasoline in a small engine does little to damage it before the equipment fails for other reasons. Buying gasoline in only 60-day quantities is all that's needed and stabilizer can help if stored longer. It also helps to fully clear the gasoline at the end of the season.
#20
StarTech
StarTech
I agree that the issue is over hyped. But all equipment will have problems no matter what type of fuel is used. For 2 cycles the use of properly mix gives the best life. Many of us knows what when improperly mix fuel is used.
But there those among that things should last forever and are always getting upset when it doesn't.
But there those among that things should last forever and are always getting upset when it doesn't.
#21
G
GearHead36
G
GearHead36
No idea. It was clear line, at least, when new. At the end of the season, it had yellowed. As I recall, pretty much all my competitors used the same stuff.Was it WOG ?
ask or look for WOG stamped on the hose . water / oil / gas
#22
7394
7394
#23
Tiger Small Engine
To say that using 10% corn gas (ethanol) in small engines is overhyped, is the understatement of the decade. A lot of the fuel I drain from customer equipment has water in it. Fuel that they claim in non-ethanol fuel. Ethanol has become the go to excuse for why some equipment won’t run or start right. On handheld equipment especially, keep your gas fresh (30-60 days). After draining many tanks of gas over the years, you start seeing patterns. Old gas and water in gas is often a much bigger issue than ethanol.
Tiger Small Engine
IMO, ethanol can damage small engines, but the issue is over-hyped. Under most circumstances, the use of E10 gasoline in a small engine does little to damage it before the equipment fails for other reasons. Buying gasoline in only 60-day quantities is all that's needed and stabilizer can help if stored longer. It also helps to fully clear the gasoline at the end of the season.
To say that using 10% corn gas (ethanol) in small engines is overhyped, is the understatement of the decade. A lot of the fuel I drain from customer equipment has water in it. Fuel that they claim in non-ethanol fuel. Ethanol has become the go to excuse for why some equipment won’t run or start right. On handheld equipment especially, keep your gas fresh (30-60 days). After draining many tanks of gas over the years, you start seeing patterns. Old gas and water in gas is often a much bigger issue than ethanol.
#24
TonyPrin
TonyPrin
I agree. The fact is that ethanol, itself, does not cause water in a gas tank. Water is introduced primarily by condensation and secondarily by water in the gas station storage tank or as water vapor. Ethanol actually helps eliminate water by attaching to it. The problem comes when the gasoline becomes saturated and phase separation occurs. As Tiger Small Engine and I stated, keeping gas fresh (under 60 days) together with proper storage techniques can virtually eliminate this issue.To say that using 10% corn gas (ethanol) in small engines is overhyped, is the understatement of the decade. A lot of the fuel I drain from customer equipment has water in it. Fuel that they claim in non-ethanol fuel. Ethanol has become the go to excuse for why some equipment won’t run or start right. On handheld equipment especially, keep your gas fresh (30-60 days). After draining many tanks of gas over the years, you start seeing patterns. Old gas and water in gas is often a much bigger issue than ethanol.
#25
7394
7394
Yep,, ok.
#26
X
xj61975
X
xj61975
Before ethanol free gasoline became widely available, I used a bit of true-fuel at the end of each season to prep my two stroke motors for winter storage. My "ritual" went like this: Line up all the two stroke devices on the garage floor; dump the fuel out of all the tanks; add a small amount of true-fuel to the first tank; start the engine and run for a minute or so until warmed up; shut off and dump the true fuel into the next machine; restart the "warmed up" machine and allow it to run out of fuel; repeat until all engines are done. I probably used a cup of true-fuel per year, and the machines always started and ran well the next spring. Now that I can buy ethanol free, I mix and run that all the time and don't use true fuel. I still dump out and run dry each fall. I've been doing this probably 15 years with no two stroke carb issues.
#27
G
Gebo
G
Gebo
Well, I’m the outlier. I only use the Stihl Motomix in all my 2 strokes. Yep, it’s expensive but I’ve never had any problems. Chickanic has multiple videos on premixed fuels. Some are bad and cause problems. But I only use about 1 gal/year.
#28
rhiebert
rhiebert
Ethanol creates/attracts water in the fuel. I suppose it could be a problem if the engine isn't run longer and heats up, as in a car.Ok, thanks. I was told by a guy at ace hardware that the ethanol in reg gas destroys these small engines. But they did always seem to run ok on it
#29
W
whaning
W
whaning
there is a website chickanic on youtube, she says the premix is junkI had always run my echo weed eater and husqvarna chain saw with my own mix of fuel and oil . as soon as i switched to the cannned pre mix fuel neither would start. Then i went back to the self mix and my echo starts and runs but not as good as it did. I have not tried the chsinsaw yet. Does this make any sense or is it a coincidence?
#30
G
Gord Baker
G
Gord Baker
Ethanol Free gasoline has been banned in Canada thanks to Feds. Ethanol absorbs moisture. Keep containers full and tightly capped. Gasoline does not evaporate to Varnish. Try to use it in 30 days, then get fresh fuel.I suggest you find out for a fact. Take two coffee cups, place the diaphragms and the rest of the carb in the cups. Fill one with forty dollar a gallon "true fuel" and the other with pump gas and allow both to fully evaporate. let set for a week, repeat the process for a year and then see if there is any difference between the components in each cup. We inquiring minds want to know. Alternately, you can watch YouTube videos and you decide. Hint: Gasoline turns to varnish and leaves behind said on components, ethanol does not. But being that it is only 10% ethanol, which leaves zero varnish, there will be zero difference. Using Sta-Bil WILL make a dramatic difference, period. As you see in the picture, I have a "couple" of restored or original machines around. Ethenol hasn't sent them to the heap yard yet.
#31
C
Chuter
C
Chuter
When I was at the JD store in northern Michigan, we had a lot of Stihl equipment come in for various smoking/non starting/ not running right complaints. We'd ask the owner what fuel they were using. Most bragged about using rec gas from the local co-op. The assumption was this was ethanol free. We'd always drain the gas and fill with the Stihl pre-mix. about 50% of the time this was the fix. Expensive though, at $120/hour, and not covered by warranty. So we suggested it to the owner before taking the unit in. Most were too smart to believe it, paid up later. My own stuff, I use the same gas as I put in my vehicles, with some Stabil added year round. I don't use a lot of gas, some of my engines get used only a few times a year, and don't know when the next use will be. It's worked out well for me. But I do still avoid 2 strokes like the plague!there is a website chickanic on youtube, she says the premix is junk
#32
S
Shady oak
S
Shady oak
I use 91 non oxy premium in all the 2 cycle stuff, and recommend yit for my daughters snowblower and mower since she isn’t conducive to treating it, or running the carb dry when she puts it away. All the 2 cycle gets Sea Foam. Since I started doing that 20 yrs ago I have not made a trip to the small engine shop.
I think some of this stuff is overthought! 22 yrs ago I bought a Kubota 3 cylinder 21 hp mower. I still havent touched the carb or the plugs. Rule of thumb, the smaller the csrb the bigger the problem. Mix, IIRC 30 ml of 50-1 with a gallon of non oxy, and a splash of Sea Foam. Drain the tank at the end of the season, and run the carb dry. Rinse and repeat!
I think some of this stuff is overthought! 22 yrs ago I bought a Kubota 3 cylinder 21 hp mower. I still havent touched the carb or the plugs. Rule of thumb, the smaller the csrb the bigger the problem. Mix, IIRC 30 ml of 50-1 with a gallon of non oxy, and a splash of Sea Foam. Drain the tank at the end of the season, and run the carb dry. Rinse and repeat!
#33
MyGrassHasCrabs
MyGrassHasCrabs
I may as well add my 2c - after I started using Stabil in all lawn equipment gas, my problems with difficult/not starting vanished. I don't know the technical reasons why, just my experience over the past several years.
#34
H
Have_Blue
H
Have_Blue
Exactly right. The problem with ethanol is that it absorbs water and gets stinky and rotten when it sits in a tank too long. You can let a small engine sit all winter with pure gasoline in he tank, fill it up in spring and it will usually run fine. Do the same with ethanol gas and you will be lucky if it starts and you don't have to clean the carb bowl, needle, seat, jet, and passages. I'm so forgetful I stopped using ethanol gas altogether. It makes the exhaust stinky anyway.Based on several YouTube videos I have watched from known good sources, and personal experience seeing canned fuel in customer equipment, my opinion is to steer clear of canned fuel. 10% ethanol fresh fuel mixed 50:1 with good oil , such as Stihl, is the only way to go. 30-60 days old in handheld 2-stroke equipment. All I run is that evil 10% ethanol fuel in all my stuff and never have problems. Keep it fresh and keep it moving. Mix up one gallon at a time.
#35
R
rutbuster1
R
rutbuster1
I've used both my own mix and canned fuel for years and never had a problem. If the canned fuel you got was "TruFuel", that's most likely your problem. I dunno what it is, but that fuel is horrible. There's videos on the tube about it and at first I didn't believe it but I had to try it out for myself. That fuel is garbage. Using a tachometer really tells the tale. When I use canned fuel I use either SEF or Husqvarna. SEF is made by VP racing fuels but costs less. The Wally World canned fuel is SEF. Haven't researched the Husqvarna fuel. The thing about the canned fuel is to remember to shake it before you use it. At least that's what I do. You can in all reality use whatever fuel you want but just mix it correctly and remember that it's only good for a couple of months storage. Try to use non ethanol if possible cause it will last longer. If commercial, you can use whatever fuel cause it gets used daily. As with any equipment, if it is to be stored for a long time, it's best to run the gas out. I know a lot of people on here will gig me on that but I've done this for decades and have had good success. But I also keep maintenance up on my equipment as well. Most of the equipment I work on with carburetor problems are the ones that have been stored for long periods of time with stale gas in the carbs.I had always run my echo weed eater and husqvarna chain saw with my own mix of fuel and oil . as soon as i switched to the cannned pre mix fuel neither would start. Then i went back to the self mix and my echo starts and runs but not as good as it did. I have not tried the chsinsaw yet. Does this make any sense or is it a coincidence?
#36
R
rutbuster1
R
rutbuster1
I tinker with R/C nitro cars running with 20-30% nitro and depending upon how long they sit and not used, the lines will either harden or gel up. I think the oil content whether 9% or 15% is the factor with that.I used to race go-karts, and we used 100% methanol. I had to replace fuel lines every season, as they would get rock hard by the end of the season.
#37
Piros1
Piros1
This seems to be quite a controversial subject so I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I had a similar discussion with an engineer from my fuel supplier for my business. To sum it up he told me that summer fuel stores longer than winter fuel due to operating conditions in cooler climates winter fuel has more additives to boost its volatility. Now if you live in warmer climates that don’t have the cold weather your fuel may not have these same additives. He did state typically the additive package was regional based on temperature. It boils down to keep your fuel fresh. I don’t really think that the 10% ethanol affects your equipment especially if you have always used it. On the other hand if you started using the 10% ethanol fuel after using standard fuel the ethanol can release deposits within the fuel system and may cause some pour operating issues. In personally won’t spend the money for the premixed fuel. I run the oil recommended by the manufacturer of my equipment and little to no issues unless I don’t run the equipment for several months and the fuel drys out. Most of my equipment is Stihl and I use their oil.
#38
7394
7394
Use 100% gas & Amsoil Saber oil mix
#39
T
TobyU
T
TobyU
Everybody has strong opinions on this and lots of people like to present what they do as fact or the only way to do it or the best way.
This is not really the case as there are many ways to obtain the desired results.
I would never touch that can fuel because it's ridiculously overpriced
I've heard people have good results with it though but again I'm not paying that for it.
Ethanol does not destroy engines and the only thing ethanol has really ever destroyed would be arrested up carburetor or corroded up or whatever that you couldn't disassemble and even that could have occurred with standard not ethanol fuel.
It doesn't even destroy the rubber and plastic parts etc it just shortens their life.
If I had my choice for about the same price I would definitely take ethanol free fuel but I haven't had that option in my area for well over 20 years.
Actually it's easier to find ethanol free gas now than it was 20 years ago because there's a demand for it but they want a lot more money for it.
I don't use any of it.
It also is irrelevant whether you use the most expensive premium gas you can buy or plan old 87 if that's the lowest in your state. In my state it's 87 89 and 91 typically. It used to be 5 cents for each grade up and then 10 and then 20 and then 40 and now it's 50.
It's literally a dollar more for premium fuel than for 87 so again I'm not buying that either.
Tons of people have just as many no starts and problems using premium fuel so it's just a waste of your money.
I've done thousands upon thousands of these commercially for decades and all you need to do is put fresh stabilized fuel into them.
This is where some people drop the ball, have a bad experience with stabilizer and then claim it doesn't work.
This is usually because they grab some old four or five month old fuel from their gas can and added some stabilizer to it right before they put their mower away or added some into the gas tank of the mower and then poured the gas in there too which is the completely wrong way to do it.
Always start with an empty gas can!
And while you're at it get a flashlight look in there and see if there's any crap floating around because you might want to blow it out or shake it out or let it sit upside down all night long to dry out and then shake it..
But start with an empty gas can and then put 1 oz of stabilizer if you're using stable regular which is what I use because it's pretty much the cheapest and I really don't trust the Walmart brand as much...
Yes, 1 oz per gallon and not the 1 oz treats every 2 and 1/2 gallons for normal stuff. You want the long-term storage like they used to call it.
1 oz per gallon into the empty gas can and then get your gas from the gas pump at the station.
This is as fresh as you can get it. Now go home and fill your gas tank of your push mower all the way to the top and then mow with it. When you're done top it off again.
This is the best insurance you have for starting and running properly next year and all you need to do. You do not need to run it dry and in fact it is worse to run them dry because you will have cracking and sealing problems with rubber parts far earlier than if you store them with a fresh wet tank of stabilized fuel.
I will claim this is the best way to do it all factors considered, cost, convenience, chances of no problems, etc.
A person could go above and beyond and use premium fuel and ethanol free fuel and then make sure it's fresh and use a stabilizer and probably increase their chances but it's probably overkill.
I'm a minimalist and I don't like Overkill unless it's horsepower in a car.
My dad always said that my friends and I always did what little dab we had to...to get by.
I've always seen that as meeting your goal!
This is not really the case as there are many ways to obtain the desired results.
I would never touch that can fuel because it's ridiculously overpriced
I've heard people have good results with it though but again I'm not paying that for it.
Ethanol does not destroy engines and the only thing ethanol has really ever destroyed would be arrested up carburetor or corroded up or whatever that you couldn't disassemble and even that could have occurred with standard not ethanol fuel.
It doesn't even destroy the rubber and plastic parts etc it just shortens their life.
If I had my choice for about the same price I would definitely take ethanol free fuel but I haven't had that option in my area for well over 20 years.
Actually it's easier to find ethanol free gas now than it was 20 years ago because there's a demand for it but they want a lot more money for it.
I don't use any of it.
It also is irrelevant whether you use the most expensive premium gas you can buy or plan old 87 if that's the lowest in your state. In my state it's 87 89 and 91 typically. It used to be 5 cents for each grade up and then 10 and then 20 and then 40 and now it's 50.
It's literally a dollar more for premium fuel than for 87 so again I'm not buying that either.
Tons of people have just as many no starts and problems using premium fuel so it's just a waste of your money.
I've done thousands upon thousands of these commercially for decades and all you need to do is put fresh stabilized fuel into them.
This is where some people drop the ball, have a bad experience with stabilizer and then claim it doesn't work.
This is usually because they grab some old four or five month old fuel from their gas can and added some stabilizer to it right before they put their mower away or added some into the gas tank of the mower and then poured the gas in there too which is the completely wrong way to do it.
Always start with an empty gas can!
And while you're at it get a flashlight look in there and see if there's any crap floating around because you might want to blow it out or shake it out or let it sit upside down all night long to dry out and then shake it..
But start with an empty gas can and then put 1 oz of stabilizer if you're using stable regular which is what I use because it's pretty much the cheapest and I really don't trust the Walmart brand as much...
Yes, 1 oz per gallon and not the 1 oz treats every 2 and 1/2 gallons for normal stuff. You want the long-term storage like they used to call it.
1 oz per gallon into the empty gas can and then get your gas from the gas pump at the station.
This is as fresh as you can get it. Now go home and fill your gas tank of your push mower all the way to the top and then mow with it. When you're done top it off again.
This is the best insurance you have for starting and running properly next year and all you need to do. You do not need to run it dry and in fact it is worse to run them dry because you will have cracking and sealing problems with rubber parts far earlier than if you store them with a fresh wet tank of stabilized fuel.
I will claim this is the best way to do it all factors considered, cost, convenience, chances of no problems, etc.
A person could go above and beyond and use premium fuel and ethanol free fuel and then make sure it's fresh and use a stabilizer and probably increase their chances but it's probably overkill.
I'm a minimalist and I don't like Overkill unless it's horsepower in a car.
My dad always said that my friends and I always did what little dab we had to...to get by.
I've always seen that as meeting your goal!
#40
Tiger Small Engine
I can sum my personal experience and opinion up in one paragraph. I agree with TobyU.
I use 87 ethanol in all my equipment. Keep it fresh and moving. 30-60 days old. Not uncommon to pour out customer pre-mix in handheld equipment and put in my fuel and it starts and runs.
Tiger Small Engine
Everybody has strong opinions on this and lots of people like to present what they do as fact or the only way to do it or the best way.
This is not really the case as there are many ways to obtain the desired results.
I would never touch that can fuel because it's ridiculously overpriced
I've heard people have good results with it though but again I'm not paying that for it.
Ethanol does not destroy engines and the only thing ethanol has really ever destroyed would be arrested up carburetor or corroded up or whatever that you couldn't disassemble and even that could have occurred with standard not ethanol fuel.
It doesn't even destroy the rubber and plastic parts etc it just shortens their life.
If I had my choice for about the same price I would definitely take ethanol free fuel but I haven't had that option in my area for well over 20 years.
Actually it's easier to find ethanol free gas now than it was 20 years ago because there's a demand for it but they want a lot more money for it.
I don't use any of it.
It also is irrelevant whether you use the most expensive premium gas you can buy or plan old 87 if that's the lowest in your state. In my state it's 87 89 and 91 typically. It used to be 5 cents for each grade up and then 10 and then 20 and then 40 and now it's 50.
It's literally a dollar more for premium fuel than for 87 so again I'm not buying that either.
Tons of people have just as many no starts and problems using premium fuel so it's just a waste of your money.
I've done thousands upon thousands of these commercially for decades and all you need to do is put fresh stabilized fuel into them.
This is where some people drop the ball, have a bad experience with stabilizer and then claim it doesn't work.
This is usually because they grab some old four or five month old fuel from their gas can and added some stabilizer to it right before they put their mower away or added some into the gas tank of the mower and then poured the gas in there too which is the completely wrong way to do it.
Always start with an empty gas can!
And while you're at it get a flashlight look in there and see if there's any crap floating around because you might want to blow it out or shake it out or let it sit upside down all night long to dry out and then shake it..
But start with an empty gas can and then put 1 oz of stabilizer if you're using stable regular which is what I use because it's pretty much the cheapest and I really don't trust the Walmart brand as much...
Yes, 1 oz per gallon and not the 1 oz treats every 2 and 1/2 gallons for normal stuff. You want the long-term storage like they used to call it.
1 oz per gallon into the empty gas can and then get your gas from the gas pump at the station.
This is as fresh as you can get it. Now go home and fill your gas tank of your push mower all the way to the top and then mow with it. When you're done top it off again.
This is the best insurance you have for starting and running properly next year and all you need to do. You do not need to run it dry and in fact it is worse to run them dry because you will have cracking and sealing problems with rubber parts far earlier than if you store them with a fresh wet tank of stabilized fuel.
I will claim this is the best way to do it all factors considered, cost, convenience, chances of no problems, etc.
A person could go above and beyond and use premium fuel and ethanol free fuel and then make sure it's fresh and use a stabilizer and probably increase their chances but it's probably overkill.
I'm a minimalist and I don't like Overkill unless it's horsepower in a car.
My dad always said that my friends and I always did what little dab we had to...to get by.
I've always seen that as meeting your goal!
I can sum my personal experience and opinion up in one paragraph. I agree with TobyU.
I use 87 ethanol in all my equipment. Keep it fresh and moving. 30-60 days old. Not uncommon to pour out customer pre-mix in handheld equipment and put in my fuel and it starts and runs.
#41
J
jviews12
J
jviews12
I use gas pump and mix my own. Once done sawing, I drain the saw, turn over and drain tank, then run dry dry. No problems as ethanol gas is gone when I am done using saw. If pre-mix is "old" I use in my older car/truck and get a new batch. I cannot get ethanol free but would if I could.
#42
7394
7394
I do same with my saw, since it is rarely used.
#43
T
TobyU
I have had generators sit for 3 years and still start right up and run fine that only had fresh 87 10% ethanol fuel with 1 oz of stable stabilizer per gallon put in them the last time they were used before they were stored.
It's a better idea to start them at least once a year and even better to start them every 6 months or even every 3 months and let them run 30 or 40 seconds or so.
Also, when you start a piece of equipment it's been sitting like this and have it running well, it's best to turn the choke back on a couple of times and let it chug for 3-4 seconds at a time and if is anything larger than a string trimmer or leaf blower but still has a primer bulb like snow blowers and some of the older push mowers, push that nice and firmly several times as it's running because this, and closing the choke back causes it to force (or suck) more fuel through the main jet which can help clear things out and keep that very important passageway closer to 100% open.
T
TobyU
I don't even drain anything.I can sum my personal experience and opinion up in one paragraph. I agree with TobyU.
I use 87 ethanol in all my equipment. Keep it fresh and moving. 30-60 days old. Not uncommon to pour out customer pre-mix in handheld equipment and put in my fuel and it starts and runs.
I have had generators sit for 3 years and still start right up and run fine that only had fresh 87 10% ethanol fuel with 1 oz of stable stabilizer per gallon put in them the last time they were used before they were stored.
It's a better idea to start them at least once a year and even better to start them every 6 months or even every 3 months and let them run 30 or 40 seconds or so.
Also, when you start a piece of equipment it's been sitting like this and have it running well, it's best to turn the choke back on a couple of times and let it chug for 3-4 seconds at a time and if is anything larger than a string trimmer or leaf blower but still has a primer bulb like snow blowers and some of the older push mowers, push that nice and firmly several times as it's running because this, and closing the choke back causes it to force (or suck) more fuel through the main jet which can help clear things out and keep that very important passageway closer to 100% open.
#44
S
Skippydiesel
S
Skippydiesel
Always do your own mix. It's easy and the only way to have control over the quality of the oil & fuel used and the ratio applied.
#45
7394
7394
Amsoil Saber
#46
T
TobyU
Amsel isn't the first to do this. There was some "super high tech fully synthetic magic oil" one of the lawn mower shops was selling back in the mid 80s for my dad bought some commercial equipment that said no matter what your equipment called for, use this stuff at 50 to 1.
It probably got by okay because it was a high quality oil but still I'm not going to run any piece of equipment that happens to call for 32 to 1:00 at 50 to 1 no matter how good the oil claims to be.
Amsoil will tell you some of this stuff is fine to run at 100 to 1 and probably because some of the outboard motors that are injected do this but again these engines are not those.
While you may get by and still have as much life as you expect out of the equipment, it is certainly not the best situation for the cylinder walls, piston and rings.
It's always better to err on the side of too much oil because the only thing that can really happen is it might clog up your exhaust screen a little more quickly but on well designed equipment that takes about 6 seconds to pull the old one out and slap the new one in or burn it off with the torch and slide it back in.
I don't even run equipment that's made for 50 to one at 50 to one even though I use a highly rated synthetic oil.
And by rated I don't mean reviews or hype but rather API and JASO specs.
I run everything at 40 to 1 because with the good oil even if I hit an old 32 to 1 one it will be fine and for the 50:1 stuff I'm offering it a little bit better lubrication than it even wanted from the factory plus the better oil so when it does finally fail or wear out it won't be from lubrication issues of the piston and cylinder.
T
TobyU
But NEVER at the ratios they recommend.Amsoil Saber
Amsel isn't the first to do this. There was some "super high tech fully synthetic magic oil" one of the lawn mower shops was selling back in the mid 80s for my dad bought some commercial equipment that said no matter what your equipment called for, use this stuff at 50 to 1.
It probably got by okay because it was a high quality oil but still I'm not going to run any piece of equipment that happens to call for 32 to 1:00 at 50 to 1 no matter how good the oil claims to be.
Amsoil will tell you some of this stuff is fine to run at 100 to 1 and probably because some of the outboard motors that are injected do this but again these engines are not those.
While you may get by and still have as much life as you expect out of the equipment, it is certainly not the best situation for the cylinder walls, piston and rings.
It's always better to err on the side of too much oil because the only thing that can really happen is it might clog up your exhaust screen a little more quickly but on well designed equipment that takes about 6 seconds to pull the old one out and slap the new one in or burn it off with the torch and slide it back in.
I don't even run equipment that's made for 50 to one at 50 to one even though I use a highly rated synthetic oil.
And by rated I don't mean reviews or hype but rather API and JASO specs.
I run everything at 40 to 1 because with the good oil even if I hit an old 32 to 1 one it will be fine and for the 50:1 stuff I'm offering it a little bit better lubrication than it even wanted from the factory plus the better oil so when it does finally fail or wear out it won't be from lubrication issues of the piston and cylinder.
#47
M
MParr
M
MParr
I run 40:1 in all of my stuff too. I don’t see any reason to keep two mixes on hand.But NEVER at the ratios they recommend.
Amsel isn't the first to do this. There was some "super high tech fully synthetic magic oil" one of the lawn mower shops was selling back in the mid 80s for my dad bought some commercial equipment that said no matter what your equipment called for, use this stuff at 50 to 1.
It probably got by okay because it was a high quality oil but still I'm not going to run any piece of equipment that happens to call for 32 to 1:00 at 50 to 1 no matter how good the oil claims to be.
Amsoil will tell you some of this stuff is fine to run at 100 to 1 and probably because some of the outboard motors that are injected do this but again these engines are not those.
While you may get by and still have as much life as you expect out of the equipment, it is certainly not the best situation for the cylinder walls, piston and rings.
It's always better to err on the side of too much oil because the only thing that can really happen is it might clog up your exhaust screen a little more quickly but on well designed equipment that takes about 6 seconds to pull the old one out and slap the new one in or burn it off with the torch and slide it back in.
I don't even run equipment that's made for 50 to one at 50 to one even though I use a highly rated synthetic oil.
And by rated I don't mean reviews or hype but rather API and JASO specs.
I run everything at 40 to 1 because with the good oil even if I hit an old 32 to 1 one it will be fine and for the 50:1 stuff I'm offering it a little bit better lubrication than it even wanted from the factory plus the better oil so when it does finally fail or wear out it won't be from lubrication issues of the piston and cylinder.
#48
7394
7394
Yep, I mix @ 50:1 using the Amsoil & my stuff runs much better than when I used Red Armor..
#49
J
Joed756
J
Joed756
Agreed, but I live in Florida and don't have a non-growing season.Based on several YouTube videos I have watched from known good sources, and personal experience seeing canned fuel in customer equipment, my opinion is to steer clear of canned fuel. 10% ethanol fresh fuel mixed 50:1 with good oil , such as Stihl, is the only way to go. 30-60 days old in handheld 2-stroke equipment. All I run is that evil 10% ethanol fuel in all my stuff and never have problems. Keep it fresh and keep it moving. Mix up one gallon at a time.
#50
T
TobyU
I have noticed a different color of the gas and often more or less smoke coming out the exhaust and sometimes a different smell of the exhaust but never have they run any differently.
I think for most people, if you could blindfold them or give them the equipment that was totally disguised so they wouldn't know and so they wouldn't know which fuel was in it, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference even though it seems there is a running difference when they know these things.
I like to be 100% accurate in what I do and say. I have some strong personal opinions too but for things like my comments on Heinz being the only catch up with eating or at least being the best, I have done blind taste tests many times with things like multiple brands of ketchups and I mean 10 and 12 at once, and I've also done all the local donuts in the area.
People are always jumping up and down talking about how someone so has the best donuts etc when most these people haven't even tried all the competitors or haven't tried them in decades. They know one thing and they stay with it.
If you sit this person down at a table in front of me and I can let them taste test eight different of the same style of donut, and let them rank them and make comments on each one, almost always they won't pick the one they thought was the best.
T
TobyU
I have never, ever notice any running difference in any two-stroke equipment due to what type of oil was being used.Yep, I mix @ 50:1 using the Amsoil & my stuff runs much better than when I used Red Armor..
I have noticed a different color of the gas and often more or less smoke coming out the exhaust and sometimes a different smell of the exhaust but never have they run any differently.
I think for most people, if you could blindfold them or give them the equipment that was totally disguised so they wouldn't know and so they wouldn't know which fuel was in it, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference even though it seems there is a running difference when they know these things.
I like to be 100% accurate in what I do and say. I have some strong personal opinions too but for things like my comments on Heinz being the only catch up with eating or at least being the best, I have done blind taste tests many times with things like multiple brands of ketchups and I mean 10 and 12 at once, and I've also done all the local donuts in the area.
People are always jumping up and down talking about how someone so has the best donuts etc when most these people haven't even tried all the competitors or haven't tried them in decades. They know one thing and they stay with it.
If you sit this person down at a table in front of me and I can let them taste test eight different of the same style of donut, and let them rank them and make comments on each one, almost always they won't pick the one they thought was the best.
#51
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
5 years ago I got rid of four gas cans and now I only have one. Mix a pouch of Opti-2 with one gallon of fuel and use it in all equipment, mine or customers. Never have had a problem since I switched over.
#52
J
Joed756
Catch Up?????????
J
Joed756
I too, try to be 100% accurate, like asking people to clarify if they mean Ketchup, Catsup, or (OMG!!!!!) Catch Up?I have never, ever notice any running difference in any two-stroke equipment due to what type of oil was being used.
I have noticed a different color of the gas and often more or less smoke coming out the exhaust and sometimes a different smell of the exhaust but never have they run any differently.
I think for most people, if you could blindfold them or give them the equipment that was totally disguised so they wouldn't know and so they wouldn't know which fuel was in it, they wouldn't be able to tell any difference even though it seems there is a running difference when they know these things.
I like to be 100% accurate in what I do and say. I have some strong personal opinions too but for things like my comments on Heinz being the only catch up with eating or at least being the best, I have done blind taste tests many times with things like multiple brands of ketchups and I mean 10 and 12 at once, and I've also done all the local donuts in the area.
People are always jumping up and down talking about how someone so has the best donuts etc when most these people haven't even tried all the competitors or haven't tried them in decades. They know one thing and they stay with it.
If you sit this person down at a table in front of me and I can let them taste test eight different of the same style of donut, and let them rank them and make comments on each one, almost always they won't pick the one they thought was the best.
Catch Up?????????
#53
7394
7394
It can be a conundrum..
#54
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well where do we start ?
most mixing bottles will be about +/- 10% and most mixing formulas do not take into account the volume of oil added increases the total volume so 50ml in 5,000ml is not 100:1
The most common chamber bottle for oil is nothing like accurate . Even using the saches can be problematic , do you wring then out to get every last drop ?
Engines that specify 30:1 ( usually 32:1 ) were designed to use standard motor oil not modern synthetic 2 stroke oil.
Those of us over 50 will remember the days of having to shake the hell out of fuel cans to get the oil back in suspension every time the piece of gear was used and tipping the unused fuel back out of hand held devices and even worse almost strait oil filling the float bowl on mowers that have sat over winter .
All of this is gone now days with modern dispersants that keep the oil molecules in suspension for years and do so without the need for shaking .
Now ball & roller bearings need almost zero lubrication and in fact will be happy with the lubrication effect of just the strait fuel and in most cases that is all they get .
The important place is the ring to piston gap & the ring to cylinder wall interface .
So on most mowers you can safely run 100:1 and the only problem will be the engine will run rich, because there is more actual petrol in each cc of fuel drawn through the main jet so you end up with sooty plugs if you do not starve the engine off regularly.
most mixing bottles will be about +/- 10% and most mixing formulas do not take into account the volume of oil added increases the total volume so 50ml in 5,000ml is not 100:1
The most common chamber bottle for oil is nothing like accurate . Even using the saches can be problematic , do you wring then out to get every last drop ?
Engines that specify 30:1 ( usually 32:1 ) were designed to use standard motor oil not modern synthetic 2 stroke oil.
Those of us over 50 will remember the days of having to shake the hell out of fuel cans to get the oil back in suspension every time the piece of gear was used and tipping the unused fuel back out of hand held devices and even worse almost strait oil filling the float bowl on mowers that have sat over winter .
All of this is gone now days with modern dispersants that keep the oil molecules in suspension for years and do so without the need for shaking .
Now ball & roller bearings need almost zero lubrication and in fact will be happy with the lubrication effect of just the strait fuel and in most cases that is all they get .
The important place is the ring to piston gap & the ring to cylinder wall interface .
So on most mowers you can safely run 100:1 and the only problem will be the engine will run rich, because there is more actual petrol in each cc of fuel drawn through the main jet so you end up with sooty plugs if you do not starve the engine off regularly.
#55
7394
7394
Agreed.
#56
J
JD14SB
J
JD14SB
You brought up a hot topic with me. I always buy Ethanol-free Gasoline and mix it 40:1 with Red Armor oil. Never had any issues. I went out-of-State to help out a Friend clean up his yard so brought my 2-cycle equipment but didn't bring Gasoline as I didn't know a good way to transport it. I bought 1 gallon of Tru-Fuel when I arrived. They only had the Red can which was 50:1. Filled up the tank on my Shindaiwa String Trimmer. Went to work and the Trimmer just didn't run at full RPM. I thought oh well, and kept knocking down weeds and brush. After about 20 minutes, the Trimmer slowed way down and stopped. Let it cool down before restarting it. Well, the Engine had seized. I later took it apart and the cylinder and piston were badly damaged. I had to junk the String Trimmer which, by the way, was the best Trimmer I ever have owned. I spoke to a local Lawn and Garden shop I trust and they said they've seen Tru-Fuel seize other engines. I guess I was totally nuts for paying $25 a gallon just so I didn't have to smell gas in my Car driving up there.
#57
7394
7394
Wow, I used to use Tru Fuel in my Shindaiwa T-235 at end of season when my can ran empty.. Never any issues.
#58
J
JD14SB
J
JD14SB
I really think Tru-Fuel had a bad run of product. I ruined my Engine. I had the Shindaiwa T230X, IIRC. It was the Limited Edition in "Blue Plastic". The Trimmer was amazing. Wish I could find another like it.Wow, I used to use Tru Fuel in my Shindaiwa T-235 at end of season when my can ran empty.. Never any issues.
#59
J
JD14SB
J
JD14SB
I am very concerned right now. I let a Friend borrow my "Garden Way" Mini Tiller I recently restored (Vintage 1980). It calls for 24:1 mix ratio of 30 weight. I put my Red Armor 40:1 mixed fuel in it. My Friend is testing out the Tiller as I just got it running again. Hope like heck it doesn't destroy itself. I have too much time and money into it. I wanted to loan him our Mantis Tiller we bought in 1989. It's been an amazing Tiller and didn't want anything to happen to it. I think I made a bad decision. I had posted the question on themix ratio for the old Garden Way Tiller this morning and my Friend came by to pick it up right after. So I let him proceed with 40:1 fuel I put in it. Then when I checked my post later in the day, it said use 30wt and follow the manufacturers requirements.
#60
7394
Never knew of the Shin T-230X, Cool. I love my 10 year old T235.. Best I ever had, & bought it new.
7394
I think you may be right.. Never any issues here.. Now I only mix with Amsoil SaberI really think Tru-Fuel had a bad run of product. I ruined my Engine. I had the Shindaiwa T230X, IIRC. It was the Limited Edition in "Blue Plastic". The Trimmer was amazing. Wish I could find another like it.
Never knew of the Shin T-230X, Cool. I love my 10 year old T235.. Best I ever had, & bought it new.