Opinions on Scag Patriot for 2 acre homeowner

[JPE]

The lifetime of any machine is determined by the availability of replacement parts. Once the manufacturer puts "no longer available" in the description of parts, you're relegated to scrounging for hopefully NOS parts but sometimes used parts will be all that's available. It doesn't matter whether you bought the "commercial" unit or the "homeowner" model, things wear out on both. Sometimes time does as much damage to a machine as use.

cpurvis, good point. From what I've read Scag is pretty good about providing replacement parts for a long time though, right? Not that it's guaranteed they will continue to do that, or do that for whatever model I choose, but at least they have a history of providing parts for a long time.

 

[cpurvis]

I don't have any experience with Scag, so I can't answer that directly. If you're on good terms with a Scag dealer's parts man, you could ask what models they made 25 years ago and then ask if parts are still available for those models.

Keep in mind, any of the suppliers to Scag (or any mower manufacturer) can quit producing replacement parts for the components they supplied to Scag, such as engines, hydros, etc. I'm in that situation with a 25 y/o Cub Cadet.

 

[mcdonell]

The Cheetah is Scags fastest mower and I have owned it four years. I budget 2 hours to mow my 3 acres and that does not include the needed shower from all the dust.

I find it uncomfortable to run the Cheetah in the high speed trans axle setting. Which means I am mowing at no more than about 11 mph. I find that speed sometimes a little rough riding and quick to steer. I have hit a few things over the years. Wife smiles at me and asks if I meant to bend that fence post in half. I tell her the Scag is undamaged. Truth is while the mower boasts speeds of up to 16 mph, I do not care to mow my place that fast or make all the divots. I am more comfortable slowing down a bit.

When I was shopping for a mower I talked to a bunch of folks. Nearly all said they wished their mower would go faster. I solved that with buying the Cheetah. The dealer said it was overkill for my 3 acres. I had my mind made up that I wanted speed, the suspension seat and suspension seat platform only offered on the Cheetah. I also wanted the 61 inch deck. I wanted to make the mowing chore quick.

My best friend has a 61 inch Turf Tiger. My son has a 54 inch Cat II. They are both happy Scag owners. My mower only gets about 50 to 75 hours per year. The Cheetah is overkill, too fast, and more expensive than I needed. Everyone was right, but I had my mind made up. Now, I am glad I bought it and would probably do it again. lol

We all have to do what we think feels right for us. That is why Scag makes so many models.

 

[BlazNT]

I have both a 1999 Exmark and 1999 Toro that still have almost all the parts made for them. Most Commerical mowers doo unless it was only a few years run on the model.

 

[Mad Mackie]

A few comments about the Scag Patriot:
Scag did finally listen to their dealer requests and put together a machine with features that only the upper level commercial machines have as standard equipment.
The Patriot was introduced in 2015 and has been upgraded since then. As mower manufacturers usually do a 24 month production run of specific models, as a perspective buyer, do your homework and check the parts manuals for upgrades in models and know what model numbers pertain to which production runs.
As ZTRs with mid mounted mower decks are dusty by nature of their design, it is important to know what type of air filtration system is installed on the engine options that are offered. Kawasaki FX series engines have the Donaldson dual element type air filter system and this is a good thing. The FX series engines also have an engine old cooler and this is also a good thing.
Scag put the Patriot together as an entry level commercial machine with a top level engine. Having a 6.5 gallon single fuel tank is a good thing. The latest model Patriots have an adjustable suspension seat and this is a good thing.
Almost all ZTRs have a rigid suspension which makes them a hard riding machine. Larger tires and suspension seats make the ride more comfortable and the Patriot is an acceptable compromise between lower entry level machines and upper level commercial rated machines such as the Tiger Cat II and Turf Tiger. It is all about the money!
The Patriot has either Hydro-Gear 3400 (61" deck) or 3100 (52" deck) hydrostatic drives with cooling fans, both of these drive systems are very good.
The mower deck although not a Velocity deck, has been upgraded with a larger width deck chute than the original design decks.
Scag does offer two collection systems on the Patriot, a mower deck spindle driven blower model and a mower deck air flow model among other options.
I do limited service on Scags and other makes of tractors/mowers and have had no problems getting parts for older model Scag machines. My local Scag dealer may not have the part in stock but will get the part(s) within a few days, no problem. And having been a power equipment mech and parts man, it is always good to have a great relationship with both!

 

[JPE]

The Cheetah is Scags fastest mower and I have owned it four years. I budget 2 hours to mow my 3 acres and that does not include the needed shower from all the dust.

I find it uncomfortable to run the Cheetah in the high speed trans axle setting. Which means I am mowing at no more than about 11 mph. I find that speed sometimes a little rough riding and quick to steer. [SNIP]

When I was shopping for a mower I talked to a bunch of folks. Nearly all said they wished their mower would go faster. I solved that with buying the Cheetah. The dealer said it was overkill for my 3 acres. I had my mind made up that I wanted speed, the suspension seat and suspension seat platform only offered on the Cheetah. I also wanted the 61 inch deck. I wanted to make the mowing chore quick.

[SNIP] The Cheetah is overkill, too fast, and more expensive than I needed. Everyone was right, but I had my mind made up. Now, I am glad I bought it and would probably do it again. lol

We all have to do what we think feels right for us. That is why Scag makes so many models.

Thanks for the comments mcdonell. I think you hit the nail on the head with the comment "we all have to do what we think feels right for us". I also appreciate you being honest about your Cheetah - you know it's overkill for your job, and you're still happy with it. Nothing wrong with that!

I have both a 1999 Exmark and 1999 Toro that still have almost all the parts made for them. Most Commerical mowers doo unless it was only a few years run on the model.

Good to know. Hopefully Scag will have parts available for the Patriot for a long while. I guess it's technically only been a model for about 5 years but I'm guessing the Freedom Z HD which it evolved from shares a large number of parts. Certainly parts available might be another advantage to the TC II but hopefully that won't be an issue.

A few comments about the Scag Patriot:
Scag did finally listen to their dealer requests and put together a machine with features that only the upper level commercial machines have as standard equipment.
The Patriot was introduced in 2015 and has been upgraded since then. As mower manufacturers usually do a 24 month production run of specific models, as a perspective buyer, do your homework and check the parts manuals for upgrades in models and know what model numbers pertain to which production runs.
As ZTRs with mid mounted mower decks are dusty by nature of their design, it is important to know what type of air filtration system is installed on the engine options that are offered. Kawasaki FX series engines have the Donaldson dual element type air filter system and this is a good thing. The FX series engines also have an engine old cooler and this is also a good thing.
Scag put the Patriot together as an entry level commercial machine with a top level engine. Having a 6.5 gallon single fuel tank is a good thing. The latest model Patriots have an adjustable suspension seat and this is a good thing.
Almost all ZTRs have a rigid suspension which makes them a hard riding machine. Larger tires and suspension seats make the ride more comfortable and the Patriot is an acceptable compromise between lower entry level machines and upper level commercial rated machines such as the Tiger Cat II and Turf Tiger. It is all about the money!
The Patriot has either Hydro-Gear 3400 (61" deck) or 3100 (52" deck) hydrostatic drives with cooling fans, both of these drive systems are very good.
The mower deck although not a Velocity deck, has been upgraded with a larger width deck chute than the original design decks.
Scag does offer two collection systems on the Patriot, a mower deck spindle driven blower model and a mower deck air flow model among other options.
I do limited service on Scags and other makes of tractors/mowers and have had no problems getting parts for older model Scag machines. My local Scag dealer may not have the part in stock but will get the part(s) within a few days, no problem. And having been a power equipment mech and parts man, it is always good to have a great relationship with both!

Thanks for the comments Mad Mackie! I'll check the parts manuals and see what the upgrades are on the Patriot. Do those manuals contain the time periods for the production runs and model numbers that correspond to those runs?

And like you said, it's all about the money. Would I like the full platform suspension, the Velocity deck, the extra speed, the cast iron spindles, the replaceable caster arms, and the tiger eye monitoring of the TC II? Sure I would. Do I want to pay $1500 - $2000 for those? No I don't. I know I'll be happy with the Patriot features for a long long time!

And as you and others have said, a good relationship with your dealer (sales AND parts) is invaluable. That's why I'll be checking out another dealer in a week or two. I want to find the best place to buy based on relationship, not just price.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi JPE,
On the Scag website at the bottom of the home page is a link to manuals. Find the Patriot link and you will see 3 different PIN number groups, the first being the latest model. Open each link and you will see the publishing date along with the PIN number group. Print these pages and bring them along with you when you visit your Scag dealers and look over any Patriot machines that they may have in stock. This way you will know specifically which production run you are looking at and what is standard equipment on that particular machine. The suspension seat is only on the latest run.
Years back I replaced the stock seat on my Tiger Cub with a mid range suspension seat and this seat was $600 back then and needed an additional electrical harness to connect to the Scag electrical system. This seat is very comfortable and well worth the money, but it would have been good to have known about seat options when I bought this machine new in 2008. In other words I had not done my homework before I went looking for a new machine. :ashamed:
Years back most Scag machines had the Advantage series mower decks. Scag upgraded to the Velocity series decks on later model and current upper level machines. They still produce what is an upgraded Advantage deck and use it on lower level machines. The major upgrade that was done was to make the discharge area wider and this is what is on the Patriot and many other mid and lower level machines.:smile:

 

[JPE]

Thanks for the info on the links, Mad Mackie!

One other quick question to all the experts out there. I assume that the service life of the sealed aluminum ball bearing spindles on the Patriot will still be a long time (500+ hours even with 1/3 of those hours in 90+ degree North Texas heat?) assuming I don't hit things with the blades, in which case a sealed aluminum spindle can be instantly destroyed, but so can a greaseable cast iron spindle with roller bearings...right? And worse case, even if I get 500 hours out of the spindles, I could just replace them in ~15 years when I hit that mark, assuming they're still manufactured. I'm just trying to make sure that there isn't a huge advantage in terms of lifespan of the mower with the TC II. I just can't see there being a huge advantage for my little yard, but I figure it was worth asking the question. A TC II seems like such overkill to me.

 

[Mad Mackie]

I have not heard anyone complain about the aluminum spindle housings on Scag machines. Scag aluminum housings are fairly strong compared to many other makes.
I have replaced both aluminum and cast iron spindle housings on many different makes. Moisture and dissimilar metals contribute to corrosion of the aluminum housings. Grass clipping accumulation under the deck will ad to corrosion/rust problems on any deck, keeping it clean and dry prolongs the life.

 

[JPE]

I have not heard anyone complain about the aluminum spindle housings on Scag machines. Scag aluminum housings are fairly strong compared to many other makes.
I have replaced both aluminum and cast iron spindle housings on many different makes. Moisture and dissimilar metals contribute to corrosion of the aluminum housings. Grass clipping accumulation under the deck will ad to corrosion/rust problems on any deck, keeping it clean and dry prolongs the life.

Thanks for the confirmation. Clean and dry, along with well maintained, seem to be the keys to a long service life for just about any machine I've dealt with. :smile: