Thanks for the comment, Darryl. I've look at Exmark and Bob-Cat (and Hustler and Gravely and Torro and and and) and while you can get a quality machine from any manufacturer, I've narrowed it down to Scag based on friends with personal experience and a solid brand history. And really for no other reason than I could go back and forth between brands forever and never reach a decision on what to buy, so I just made the executive decision to go with Scag. :smile:
And you're right, it's more fair to compare the Patriot and the Freedom, not the Liberty. But for $1500 more on the Patriot I can get the Kawasaki FX vs. the Kohler on the Freedom, plus the suspension seat, plus the better/faster hydros. For me personally that seems like money well spent. And yeah, it's more than I want to spend, but it's always cheaper to buy once than twice.
Go a head and buy a Tiger Cat II Scag. It will last you 25 years or longer. The Velocity Deck is a game changer when it comes to cutting grass. Get either the 52" or 61" with a Kawasaki engine. There is nothing on the market that we have ever run or saw run that will out cut it.
Sounds like a good plan as long as the Scag dealer is reputable and reasonably convenient. I'm a firm believer that a good nearby dealer can be as or more important than the color of the machine. The Patriot is enough machine to be cutting a 2 acre lawn almost indefinitely, but you could always upgrade to the Tiger Cat II to be sure. :laughing:
Sounds like you have done your homework and that machine should last you a long time.
Go a head and buy a Tiger Cat II Scag. It will last you 25 years or longer. The Velocity Deck is a game changer when it comes to cutting grass. Get either the 52" or 61" with a Kawasaki engine. There is nothing on the market that we have ever run or saw run that will out cut it.
I agree with jekjr. While the lower priced Skags might actually be the best value for you, higher price models will give a better ride, cut, and durability long after you forget the cost difference. There is a reason I see more Cat II's vs Patriots or Libertys in landscape trailers.
I have just 3 acres in Texas and use a Cheetah with 61 velocity cut. My son has 2 acres and a Cat II. We both have budget concerns. However, we decided the task of mowing is best performed by a commercial choice machine with solid experience. Admittedly, the better seat is more important each year. :wink:
Just my cents.
Scag offers 0% financing you know. https://www.scag.com/financing.html
Edit: oops, looks like that deal expired, but maybe there's a new one? A lot of pros, including myself finance with Sheffield Financial.
Yeah, but I have the money and I'd rather not finance if I don't have to. And yeah, at 0% I could invest the money and have it make me some more money, but I'd rather just have it paid for. It might be because I'm old but it just doesn't seem right to finance a mower that's just used for your own yard. :biggrin:
Yeah, but I have the money and I'd rather not finance if I don't have to. And yeah, at 0% I could invest the money and have it make me some more money, but I'd rather just have it paid for. It might be because I'm old but it just doesn't seem right to finance a mower that's just used for your own yard. :biggrin:
OK, I just thought I'd mention it.
FYI, the next door neighbor to one of my mowing accounts has a Freedom Z Pro, which I believe became the Patriot, and it leaves a very nice cut and he has been very happy with it. I looked it over when he first got it and have watched him mow with it and it seems like a fine machine.
I think you're being unrealistic to think you'll cut 2 acres in a half hour, but it should have no trouble knocking it out "quickly". Those acre per hour productivity numbers given by manufacturers are best case at full speed and are just not realistic in my experience.
Personally I give you credit for wanting to buy an entry level commercial machine from a dealer rather than doing what I feel too many homeowners with large lawns do...buy a residential Z mower from a big box store.
A nice thing about the Patriot is that they have a choice of both powered and non-powered rear baggers for it, should you decide to add one. The powered ones are pricey so it's nice to have the option in case you just want to be able to pick up leaves in the fall or something.
The lifetime of any machine is determined by the availability of replacement parts. Once the manufacturer puts "no longer available" in the description of parts, you're relegated to scrounging for hopefully NOS parts but sometimes used parts will be all that's available. It doesn't matter whether you bought the "commercial" unit or the "homeowner" model, things wear out on both. Sometimes time does as much damage to a machine as use.
The Cheetah is Scags fastest mower and I have owned it four years. I budget 2 hours to mow my 3 acres and that does not include the needed shower from all the dust.
I find it uncomfortable to run the Cheetah in the high speed trans axle setting. Which means I am mowing at no more than about 11 mph. I find that speed sometimes a little rough riding and quick to steer. [SNIP]
When I was shopping for a mower I talked to a bunch of folks. Nearly all said they wished their mower would go faster. I solved that with buying the Cheetah. The dealer said it was overkill for my 3 acres. I had my mind made up that I wanted speed, the suspension seat and suspension seat platform only offered on the Cheetah. I also wanted the 61 inch deck. I wanted to make the mowing chore quick.
[SNIP] The Cheetah is overkill, too fast, and more expensive than I needed. Everyone was right, but I had my mind made up. Now, I am glad I bought it and would probably do it again. lol
We all have to do what we think feels right for us. That is why Scag makes so many models.
I have both a 1999 Exmark and 1999 Toro that still have almost all the parts made for them. Most Commerical mowers doo unless it was only a few years run on the model.
A few comments about the Scag Patriot:
Scag did finally listen to their dealer requests and put together a machine with features that only the upper level commercial machines have as standard equipment.
The Patriot was introduced in 2015 and has been upgraded since then. As mower manufacturers usually do a 24 month production run of specific models, as a perspective buyer, do your homework and check the parts manuals for upgrades in models and know what model numbers pertain to which production runs.
As ZTRs with mid mounted mower decks are dusty by nature of their design, it is important to know what type of air filtration system is installed on the engine options that are offered. Kawasaki FX series engines have the Donaldson dual element type air filter system and this is a good thing. The FX series engines also have an engine old cooler and this is also a good thing.
Scag put the Patriot together as an entry level commercial machine with a top level engine. Having a 6.5 gallon single fuel tank is a good thing. The latest model Patriots have an adjustable suspension seat and this is a good thing.
Almost all ZTRs have a rigid suspension which makes them a hard riding machine. Larger tires and suspension seats make the ride more comfortable and the Patriot is an acceptable compromise between lower entry level machines and upper level commercial rated machines such as the Tiger Cat II and Turf Tiger. It is all about the money!
The Patriot has either Hydro-Gear 3400 (61" deck) or 3100 (52" deck) hydrostatic drives with cooling fans, both of these drive systems are very good.
The mower deck although not a Velocity deck, has been upgraded with a larger width deck chute than the original design decks.
Scag does offer two collection systems on the Patriot, a mower deck spindle driven blower model and a mower deck air flow model among other options.
I do limited service on Scags and other makes of tractors/mowers and have had no problems getting parts for older model Scag machines. My local Scag dealer may not have the part in stock but will get the part(s) within a few days, no problem. And having been a power equipment mech and parts man, it is always good to have a great relationship with both!
I have not heard anyone complain about the aluminum spindle housings on Scag machines. Scag aluminum housings are fairly strong compared to many other makes.
I have replaced both aluminum and cast iron spindle housings on many different makes. Moisture and dissimilar metals contribute to corrosion of the aluminum housings. Grass clipping accumulation under the deck will ad to corrosion/rust problems on any deck, keeping it clean and dry prolongs the life.
I have not heard anyone complain about the aluminum spindle housings on Scag machines. Scag aluminum housings are fairly strong compared to many other makes.
I have replaced both aluminum and cast iron spindle housings on many different makes. Moisture and dissimilar metals contribute to corrosion of the aluminum housings. Grass clipping accumulation under the deck will ad to corrosion/rust problems on any deck, keeping it clean and dry prolongs the life.
And the big killer, washing down a hot mower in particular using the wash out port when hot will draw water into the bearings and cause them to fail in a single season.
I'm going to try and live my life without a handheld/backpack lawn blower, but I do have a 30 gallon compressor in the garage and blower gun that I intend to use to blow the grass off before putting the mower away.
I'm going to try and live my life without a handheld/backpack lawn blower, but I do have a 30 gallon compressor in the garage and blower gun that I intend to use to blow the grass off before putting the mower away.
And the big killer, washing down a hot mower in particular using the wash out port when hot will draw water into the bearings and cause them to fail in a single season.
And the big killer, washing down a hot mower in particular using the wash out port when hot will draw water into the bearings and cause them to fail in a single season.
Just wondering...do you "accidentally" break those on machines that you service? :wink:
McDonell - I agree, it's the debate between cut quality and cost. Certainly the Velocity deck on the TC II will provide a better cut than the deck on the Patriot, but I do believe the deck on the Patriot will provide a good cut and getting the better cut just doesn't seem worth the extra $1500 - $2000 for the Cat II. I certainly could be wrong, but seeing as the Patriot will allow me to cut the yard in ~30 minutes I just can't see going longer than 1 week between cuts in the height of the growing season here in North Texas so I have to believe it will be an acceptable cut to me without major clumping or other problems. If you think I'm wrong about that, please let me know!
And as for ride quality - I found the Patriot ride quality to be perfectly acceptable at full speed vs. the Liberty which wasn't in the same league!
20 years from now that won't be $100 a year. The seat is better the deck is incredibly better. Not just in cut but the ability to cut if you get into the position to have to cut it tall. Blade change is much better from my understanding. I personally have not used the home owner models but I do know that the Velocity deck has the nuts on top and you can take a cordless impact and change the blades in 5 minutes easily. We do it multiple times a day with the ones we run. Many pro's that you could quite possibly wish a couple of years down the road that you went ahead and got.
Just my opinion. Good luck in what ever you get.
JPE - I don't have direct experience with Scag mowers other than their 1980s walk-behinds, but I don't think you can't go wrong with either the Patriot or the TC. The Patriot will easy do what you want it too for many years as far as mowing the lawn. Yes the TC will probably do it a bit better and faster. With that aside, if you'll be doing any sort of "rough duty" work with it such as towing heavy carts or trailers, pulling aerators, sweepers or dethatchers, infrequent mowing of overgrown and/or rough areas, your needs would probably be served best by a TC. I wouldn't recommend using the Patriot as a tractor basically.
Yeah garden cart should be fine within reasonable limits.
250 pound towing limit on all Scag ZTRs. These machine are not made to tow heavy loads as the hydrostatic drives are designed for low torque higher speeds.
If you plan to pull a plug aerator with a zero turn, you are setting yourself up for failure; literally a hydrostatic failure. An aerator is classified as a "ground-engaging" attachment in which most if not ALL zero turns are NOT rated for. As for the cart, about 150 lbs should be the max. None of this takes into account any type of terrain. If you pull a 100 lb cart up a short 10 degree incline it could be like pulling 500 lbs on flat land (I don't know the math but I hope you get what I am saying). It is for this reason that most of the zero turns out there do not have a hitch. Those that do, it's a mistake. Zero Turns are lawn cutting machines only and should be treated as such!
For yard duty I think you'll be fine with the Patriot. For farm duty I think you'd be asking for trouble. That's what I was trying to say.
Blah. 1900 hours on my Lazer Z HP with no hydro issues. That's with one oil and filter change at 500 hours. It's pulled a 4 foot plug aerator weighted down with rocks for days at a time, dragged heavy tarps full of debris, dragged roped-up brush piles, bulldozed mountains of leaves and pulled plenty of mulch in a dump cart. And it doesn't even have hydro cooling fans. HG 10cc pumps and Parker/Ross wheel motors. Sorry but I do not think hydros are that fragile.If you plan to pull a plug aerator with a zero turn, you are setting yourself up for failure; literally a hydrostatic failure. An aerator is classified as a "ground-engaging" attachment in which most if not ALL zero turns are NOT rated for. As for the cart, about 150 lbs should be the max. None of this takes into account any type of terrain. If you pull a 100 lb cart up a short 10 degree incline it could be like pulling 500 lbs on flat land (I don't know the math but I hope you get what I am saying). It is for this reason that most of the zero turns out there do not have a hitch. Those that do, it's a mistake. Zero Turns are lawn cutting machines only and should be treated as such!
Blah. 1900 hours on my Lazer Z HP with no hydro issues. That's with one oil and filter change at 500 hours. It's pulled a 4 foot plug aerator weighted down with rocks for days at a time, dragged heavy tarps full of debris, dragged roped-up brush piles, bulldozed mountains of leaves and pulled plenty of mulch in a dump cart. And it doesn't even have hydro cooling fans. HG 10cc pumps and Parker/Ross wheel motors. Sorry but I do not think hydros are that fragile.
I guess it would all depend on the durability of separate pumps and motors vs integrated ones. It very well could be that the HG 3100's or 3400's can handle more than what's in your machine. But the question becomes, does your single experience warrant recommending to a perspective buyer, purchasing a machine to use for things to which A) it is not intended and B) the manufacturer will not warranty when it fails?
Hey, we're all here to help, but nobody should offer up advise on anyone doing anything that is unsafe or is outside of the manufacturer's recommendations!!
Exactly Mike. That's why I wanted to make sure he was planning to just use it for light duty work. :smile:
People put plow blades, snowblowers, rotary brooms, tow-behind leaf collection systems and other implements on Z mowers all the time with good results. I've only got a JRCO front tine-rake detchatcher for mine, but prefer it on my walk behind. But saying that Z mowers are only designed for mowing is misleading IMO. No it's not a garden tractor or compact utility tractor, but you can use accessories with Z mowers without issues, within reason. Mower manufacturers sell them specifically for their machines! You just have to use your head and know the difference between use and abuse.
Edit: Check this out. This machine is factory equipped with a 5 foot snow blade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQcBOGGIKX8
Check out Dixie Chopper, Grasshopper and Walker too. They ALL SELL FACTORY GROUND-ENGAGING EQUIPMENT FOR THEIR HYDRO ZERO-TURN MOWERS. I think my advice is sound...
Agreed, and that's why I recommended that he go with the commercial TC II if his machine was going to be used for "farm duty".As with all machines it's got to be the right one for what you're doing.
Congratulations. It looks sweet !