Scottishlad
Member
Hi, and thanks - from other posts it looks like they've actually supplied the wrong block as the one for my engine is no longer available. I'll see how i get on trying to argue this with Briggs and take it from there.....
Old Flywheel - new short block - spark timing way out ?
- Thread starter Scottishlad
- Start date
Scottishlad
Member
THANK YOU ... with all your help this is beginning to look like I have the start of a solution ....
Scottishlad
Member
Update
As you've suggested Briggs have confirmed that I need a new flywheel AND cooling fan to make this engine work .. some £200 of additional cost and getting very close to the price I could have bought a complete new motor for!
They have acknowledged that my short block engine is no longer available so i'm currently in "discussion" as to why they supplied the incorrect engine which requires additional parts which were not highlighted at the point of ordering. To my mind this was therefore an incorrectly supplied part and it should be their reponsibility to rectify and not mine by paying more money .... lets see what happens.....!
As you've suggested Briggs have confirmed that I need a new flywheel AND cooling fan to make this engine work .. some £200 of additional cost and getting very close to the price I could have bought a complete new motor for!
They have acknowledged that my short block engine is no longer available so i'm currently in "discussion" as to why they supplied the incorrect engine which requires additional parts which were not highlighted at the point of ordering. To my mind this was therefore an incorrectly supplied part and it should be their reponsibility to rectify and not mine by paying more money .... lets see what happens.....!
StarTech
Lawn Royalty
Now you know why so many small and large shops no longer do engine rebuilds. A surplus new replacement engine is more economical to install. Now in your case if the old crankshaft was savable then things would have been fine as you could have swap it out.
Even though I have the tools to resize a bore I still do not do rebuilds any longer. Customer don't seem to understand the costs and time involved as they got use to cheap things. Back years ago it was feasible to do rebuilds as costs were more inline and new were more costly when compared to rebuilds. On top even to do a resize now we are very on the replacement pistons and rings. We use to have .010 to .030 oversizes available but now we are lucky if there is a .020 oversize.
It like the Hydro Gear EZT transaxle that needs repaired or replaced here. It costs the customer around $850 to rebuild with a 30 day warranty and a new one is about the same cost (around $1000) with 5-6 month warranty. Prices include labor. It makes better sense to replace with new. I can do this as a HG dealer where Bad Boy will only give the customer a 30 day warranty on a new transaxle.
It getting to a point now that we have to make decisions of installing new engines and transaxles over rebuilding them here in my neck of the woods. Just not cost effective. Manufactures only care about keep the factories operating at peak output now instead customers loyalties or the environment. It is all about the money most times. Plus there is just not enough space to keep older tooling hardware around as space is limited.
Even though I have the tools to resize a bore I still do not do rebuilds any longer. Customer don't seem to understand the costs and time involved as they got use to cheap things. Back years ago it was feasible to do rebuilds as costs were more inline and new were more costly when compared to rebuilds. On top even to do a resize now we are very on the replacement pistons and rings. We use to have .010 to .030 oversizes available but now we are lucky if there is a .020 oversize.
It like the Hydro Gear EZT transaxle that needs repaired or replaced here. It costs the customer around $850 to rebuild with a 30 day warranty and a new one is about the same cost (around $1000) with 5-6 month warranty. Prices include labor. It makes better sense to replace with new. I can do this as a HG dealer where Bad Boy will only give the customer a 30 day warranty on a new transaxle.
It getting to a point now that we have to make decisions of installing new engines and transaxles over rebuilding them here in my neck of the woods. Just not cost effective. Manufactures only care about keep the factories operating at peak output now instead customers loyalties or the environment. It is all about the money most times. Plus there is just not enough space to keep older tooling hardware around as space is limited.
Hammermechanicman
Lawn Addict
On very rare occasion will i rebuild an engine or a hydro. I understand why dealers don't do it and i don't for the same reason. The time it takes and parts to do it right puts you near the cost of a new engine. Folks sometimes don't understand how long it takes to disassemble, clean off old gaskets, clean block and parts, inspect all the parts for wear or damage and at a minimum use a ball hone to break the glaze and reclean the block and then reassemble the engine. Plus time to look up parts. And then warranty the work. Opening a box and bolting on an engine warranted by someone else is more cost effective.
Scottishlad
Member
Star Tech and Hammermechanicman
Thanks for your reply
Looks like i'm learning this the hard way ... its my own mower and bought as a project so labour cost is not such an issue. From a saving the planet (!) perspective I was trying to do the right thing and minimise throwing stuff away ... sadly, the crank and con rod had all but welded themselves together so it seemed to make sense to go for the short motor at just over half price of a whole new motor - all the other components are sound.
Not sure where to go from here .. I bought the short motor from a BS agent with all the original engine codings so i'm not happy that they supplied a later series engine without any suggestion that id have to buy more bits to make it work.....
As the correct motor is listed as NLA I think its a clear cut case of so incorrect supply on their behalf. I've said i'll return the new engine for a full refund or they can send me an foc flywheel and fan .....
Finally, has anyone got any thoughts on the viability of cutting a new key-way in the existing flywheel? In theory at least a cheaper fix if it didn't threaten the integrity of the flywheel and assuming I can accurately establish the new location ....
Thanks for your reply
Looks like i'm learning this the hard way ... its my own mower and bought as a project so labour cost is not such an issue. From a saving the planet (!) perspective I was trying to do the right thing and minimise throwing stuff away ... sadly, the crank and con rod had all but welded themselves together so it seemed to make sense to go for the short motor at just over half price of a whole new motor - all the other components are sound.
Not sure where to go from here .. I bought the short motor from a BS agent with all the original engine codings so i'm not happy that they supplied a later series engine without any suggestion that id have to buy more bits to make it work.....
As the correct motor is listed as NLA I think its a clear cut case of so incorrect supply on their behalf. I've said i'll return the new engine for a full refund or they can send me an foc flywheel and fan .....
Finally, has anyone got any thoughts on the viability of cutting a new key-way in the existing flywheel? In theory at least a cheaper fix if it didn't threaten the integrity of the flywheel and assuming I can accurately establish the new location ....
Hammermechanicman
Lawn Addict
Where you are it may be difficult but check around any small engine shops that may have a bad engine with the flywheel you need for a few coins.
Scottishlad
Member
A good idea - though as you say small engine shops are few and far between ...coming to think of it almost everything around here is few and far between !!
I'll ask around though ... do you know if the required flywheel is fitted to other engines or it specific to the 15.5 intek engines?
Thank for taking the time to reply and the help you are offering
Scottishlad
Member
Another update ... as supected Briggs acknowledged they supplied the wrong block BUT will not provide the required flywheel and fan at anything another other than full cost! They have agreed however agreed to take the shortblock back (a bit mad for them because they probably wont be able to sell it given I've already fitted it and filled it with oil etc)
So depending on whether I find a used flywheel or a replacement engine first - i may just strip it out and send ... what a fiasco!
I've found a complete used motor 31A607 / 0470 - B1 / 090925ZA which I suspect is the same as my old motor so would be straight swap - he's asking £200 - a bargain if its not worn out but a further waste of time and money it is a bad 'un
The motors not fitted so cant be run so other than checking for lash at the crank and hand turned compression are there any other good checks I can do without dismantling to assess condition...?
Thanks again
So depending on whether I find a used flywheel or a replacement engine first - i may just strip it out and send ... what a fiasco!
I've found a complete used motor 31A607 / 0470 - B1 / 090925ZA which I suspect is the same as my old motor so would be straight swap - he's asking £200 - a bargain if its not worn out but a further waste of time and money it is a bad 'un
The motors not fitted so cant be run so other than checking for lash at the crank and hand turned compression are there any other good checks I can do without dismantling to assess condition...?
Thanks again