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Old Briggs head gasket swap - cast or aluminum?

Nov 17, 2013#1

R

ricklea1953

I pulled the head and I was pleased with what I saw. No ridge in the cylinder and good valve action. Lots of carbon but the valves and seats look good.

I am going to put a new head gasket in but I need to know if my engine is cast iron or aluminum because that dictates the correct head bolt lubrication and torque. I held a magnet to the block and head and there was no reaction. I assume everything is aluminum but would appreciate it if someone could confirm that for me.

My engine data is as follows:

MODEL: 061102
TYPE: 0133 01
SERIAL NUMBER: 6312303

Thanks for your help.

Nov 17, 2013#2

EngineMan

Am 99% sure its aluminum.

Nov 17, 2013#3

R

ricklea1953

Thank you but I need to be sure.

Nov 17, 2013#4

reynoldston

Now wouldn't it be 100% if you used a magnet. The last time I put a magnet to cast iron it stuck to it.

Nov 17, 2013#5

briggs

reynoldston said:
Now wouldn't it be 100% if you used a magnet. The last time I put a magnet to cast iron it stuck to it.

me too :confused2:

Nov 17, 2013#6

briggs

briggs said:
me too :confused2:

and to answer your question its Aluminum if the magnet will not stick to it

Nov 18, 2013#7

reynoldston

This is the reason I keep a magnet on the side of my tool box. Other reasons I use it is to know if something is stainless steel or not, if something is solid brass or coated steel that is brass color. I find a magnet is a handy tool.

Nov 18, 2013#8

briggs

reynoldston said:
This is the reason I keep a magnet on the side of my tool box. Other reasons I use it is to know if something is stainless steel or not, if something is solid brass or coated steel that is brass color. I find a magnet is a handy tool.

yes sir me to and its handy as heck if u drop something to :thumbsup:

Nov 18, 2013#9

reynoldston

ricklea1953 said:
I am going to put a new head gasket in but I need to know if my engine is cast iron or aluminum because that dictates the correct head bolt lubrication and torque. I held a magnet to the block and head and there was no reaction. I assume everything is aluminum but would appreciate it if someone could confirm that for me.

I guess this is something new to me but never too old to learn. I have put many heads on and head bolts in different blocks from large diesels to small mower engines in my life time. Now as far as lubrication for the head bolts what I always do is clean them and just use SAE 30 oil on them. When you are torque a bolt you are stretching it and that determents the way and amount you torque it. Is this something you are getting out of a service manual? If so why is it not telling you what lubrication to use and how to torque the bolts? One of the most important things you must watch for is to make sure everything is clean. You need to determine the bolt size and how the head gasket is made when you torque them not what the block and head is made of.

Nov 18, 2013#10

Fish

EngineMan said:
Am 99% sure its aluminum.

Or is it 99% aluminum?

Actually, I wouldn't get too worked up over the torques, this isn't the space shuttle...... About the only thing I really torque is rod bolts, most of the guys here probably do about that too.

Nov 18, 2013#11

reynoldston

Fish said:
Or is it 99% aluminum?

Actually, I wouldn't get too worked up over the torques, this isn't the space shuttle...... About the only thing I really torque is rod bolts, most of the guys here probably do about that too.

I will agree on this with this on most mowers to a point but with some of the newer gaskets torques have become very important. I run into this more on cars, trucks and motor cycles.

Nov 18, 2013#12

R

ricklea1953

Okay folks. Don't get in a tizzie. This is just a hobby project and I have time to learn whether the block is cast iron or aluminum for historical reason. It is not like I have to get the mower running tomorrow.

The reason I was asking is that I have done a lot of hobby research. Cast iron head bolts get oiled. Aluminum head bolts get lubed with graphite grease. Bolt metals call for the own torque values which are different.

I simply thought someone could confirm my cast iron/aluminum question with the model/type/date data provided. I did the magnet test myself.

Thank all of you for your responses.

Nov 18, 2013#13

briggs

ricklea1953 said:
Okay folks. Don't get in a tizzie. This is just a hobby project and I have time to learn whether the block is cast iron or aluminum for historical reason. It is not like I have to get the mower running tomorrow.

The reason I was asking is that I have done a lot of hobby research. Cast iron head bolts get oiled. Aluminum head bolts get lubed with graphite grease. Bolt metals call for the own torque values which are different.

I simply thought someone could confirm my cast iron/aluminum question with the model/type/date data provided. I did the magnet test myself.

Thank all of you for your responses.

I will look in my book at the shop tomorrow and see if I can find your model and see if I have the specs that u are looking for ..I use 10-w30 oil on the bolts I have used that graphite grease and I didn't like it I found it messy but that's your call there .....I will let u know what I find

Nov 19, 2013#14

R

ricklea1953

Thank you for your help and input.

Nov 19, 2013#15

R

Rivets

I don't know where you got your info on lubricating head bolts, but I never apply any lubricant to head bolts before installing. Unless the engine manufacturers have changed something that I missed, all small engines I have worked on recommend dry torqueing head bolts in a two step process. Please post where you got this info on wet torqueing, time for me to learn something new.

Nov 20, 2013#16

Carscw

There is a thread on here that talks about this. If you put oil on the bolt your not going to get the proper torque.
I have never heard of any engine manufacturer recommend putting oil on threads. I all so would like to see where you got this info from.

Nov 20, 2013#17

R

ricklea1953

I got the information from a library book called HOW TO REPAIR A BRIGGS AND STATTON ENGINE by Pete Dempsey. The same thing is said in the CLYMER BRIGGS AND STRATTON L-HEAD REPAIR MANUAL. I guess I should forget about doing reading research and just guess or wing it.

Take no offense, please, but this is what I find wrong with forums. You get lots of input but have to weed thru it and figure out who knows what they are talking about.
Some people wing it and call that experience. Others work in the industry and have professional knowledge.

Just my two cents worth.

Thanks for your input - all of you.

Nov 20, 2013#18

briggs

ricklea1953 said:
I got the information from a library book called HOW TO REPAIR A BRIGGS AND STATTON ENGINE by Pete Dempsey. The same thing is said in the CLYMER BRIGGS AND STRATTON L-HEAD REPAIR MANUAL. I guess I should forget about doing reading research and just guess or wing it.

Take no offense, please, but this is what I find wrong with forums. You get lots of input but have to weed thru it and figure out who knows what they are talking about.
Some people wing it and call that experience. Others work in the industry and have professional knowledge.

Just my two cents worth.

Thanks for your input - all of you.

its in the Haynes book also ...I looked for your torque specs and haven't found them as of yet ...I have to many books but when i find it i will Post it here for u

Nov 21, 2013#19

reynoldston

Nothing wrong with working out of a service manual. I think your original question was what was the block and head made of and we determined it was aluminum with the magnet test. I have install many heads and I will still say this. The older mower engines really aren't as touchy as to how you install head gaskets. What I have done in the pass was just reinstall the old gasket. When I do this I give the gasket a coat of shellac. Also another thing I do now is instead of oil I use the blue lock tite on the head bolts. This seals them and acts as a lubricant. Most important is clean everything. Yes you are going to find no one works the same and yes you need to sort out the BS. Is this the same engine you are working on the ignition system and afraid to pull the flywheel? I only am going to tell you how I do something but do it your own way seeing you are the one doing it. And also by the way if the job go's bad I haven't got any money invested but giving you my free advice. I am a retired mechanic and have put many engines together and have found in the pass if I can't find new gaskets for some of the older engines anymore so I will make my own gaskets. I have also found that I am not the best person with words when it come to writing out these repairs so listen to someone that can explain this better then I can.

Nov 21, 2013#20

briggs

reynoldston said:
Nothing wrong with working out of a service manual. I think your original question was what was the block and head made of and we determined it was aluminum with the magnet test. I have install many heads and I will still say this. The older mower engines really aren't as touchy as to how you install head gaskets. What I have done in the pass was just reinstall the old gasket. When I do this I give the gasket a coat of shellac. Also another thing I do now is instead of oil I use the blue lock tite on the head bolts. This seals them and acts as a lubricant. Most important is clean everything. Yes you are going to find no one works the same and yes you need to sort out the BS. Is this the same engine you are working on the ignition system and afraid to pull the flywheel? I only am going to tell you how I do something but do it your own way seeing you are the one doing it. And also by the way if the job go's bad I haven't got any money invested but giving you my free advice. I am a retired mechanic and have put many engines together and have found in the pass if I can't find new gaskets for some of the older engines anymore so I will make my own gaskets. I have also found that I am not the best person with words when it come to writing out these repairs so listen to someone that can explain this better then I can.

yes I have used shellac also and made my own gaskets as for loc-tite I have never used it on head bolts

Nov 21, 2013#21

reynoldston

briggs said:
yes I have used shellac also and made my own gaskets as for loc-tite I have never used it on head bolts

I got in the habit using blue loc-tite working on cars and motorcycles and it just carried over to mowers. I use it more then just the head bolts. It makes a good lube and seals the threads. Don't use the red if you ever want it to come apart. It can be on the pricey side but worth the cost.

Nov 21, 2013#22

briggs

reynoldston said:
I got in the habit using blue loc-tite working on cars and motorcycles and it just carried over to mowers. I use it more then just the head bolts. It makes a good lube and seals the threads. Don't use the red if you ever want it to come apart. It can be on the pricey side but worth the cost.

i have used it on cars (intake,carb bolts alternator bolts but not on head bolts but its worth a crack what can it hurt lol and yes that red stuff glues it together good lol

Nov 21, 2013#23

Carscw

I also use the blue on just about everything.

What I like is when people use the red on their blade bolts then ask how to get the blades off with their china made 3/8 drive ratchet.

Nov 21, 2013#24

reynoldston

Carscw said:
I also use the blue on just about everything.

What I like is when people use the red on their blade bolts then ask how to get the blades off with their china made 3/8 drive ratchet.

I got a good laugh about the Chinese ratchet :laughing:

Nov 21, 2013#25

briggs

Carscw said:
I also use the blue on just about everything.

What I like is when people use the red on their blade bolts then ask how to get the blades off with their china made 3/8 drive ratchet.

LOL knuckle busters I use my impact now lol :thumbsup:

Nov 21, 2013#26

R

ricklea1953

Thank you all for your input.

I almost erased this forum from my favorites. Then I realized there was some input that was very useful without the sarcasim. Thank you. I don't need to know if it is 99% aluminum. 99% sure is a much more helpful. I am not stupid and some of the comments go way too far but I will hang in there.

Nov 21, 2013#27

Carscw

ricklea1953 said:
Thank you all for your input. I almost erased this forum from my favorites. Then I realized there was some input that was very useful without the sarcasim. Thank you. I don't need to know if it is 99% aluminum. 99% sure is a much more helpful. I am not stupid and some of the comments go way too far but I will hang in there.

Sarcasm is how we communicate.

I guess some did not know why you was asking if it was aluminum if you already put a magnet on it.
So let's see the magnet did not stick to it and it has no rust on it I will say aluminum is my final answer

Nov 21, 2013#28

briggs

ricklea1953 said:
Thank you all for your input.

I almost erased this forum from my favorites. Then I realized there was some input that was very useful without the sarcasim. Thank you. I don't need to know if it is 99% aluminum. 99% sure is a much more helpful. I am not stupid and some of the comments go way too far but I will hang in there.

u will find we are all smart Azzes from time to time But u will get the info u need ...We all pick on one another and we all do stuff differently but we all have one thing in common most of us have repair shops that we work at or used to work at or love to work on them for a hobby.. These guys are great ..I have been on allot of forums this one seems to be the most helpful and people like to joke around and razz each other ..And sometimes yes we fight with one another but thats a male thing lol

Nov 22, 2013#29

Fish

If you want to work on Briggs engines, you really ought to get the Briggs manual for your model, here is a link that may help you believe it is 99.9% aluminum.

Of course, if it was a cast iron sleeve model, you still would be looking at it as an aluminum model for the bolt threads.

Briggs & Stratton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nov 22, 2013#30

R

ricklea1953

reynoldston said:
Nothing wrong with working out of a service manual. I think your original question was what was the block and head made of and we determined it was aluminum with the magnet test. I have install many heads and I will still say this. The older mower engines really aren't as touchy as to how you install head gaskets. What I have done in the pass was just reinstall the old gasket. When I do this I give the gasket a coat of shellac. Also another thing I do now is instead of oil I use the blue lock tite on the head bolts. This seals them and acts as a lubricant. Most important is clean everything. Yes you are going to find no one works the same and yes you need to sort out the BS. Is this the same engine you are working on the ignition system and afraid to pull the flywheel? I only am going to tell you how I do something but do it your own way seeing you are the one doing it. And also by the way if the job go's bad I haven't got any money invested but giving you my free advice. I am a retired mechanic and have put many engines together and have found in the pass if I can't find new gaskets for some of the older engines anymore so I will make my own gaskets. I have also found that I am not the best person with words when it come to writing out these repairs so listen to someone that can explain this better then I can.

I value your opinion. If I could contact you via private e-mail, please let me know

Nov 22, 2013#31

R

ricklea1953

Okay folks. Tomorrow I will be cleaning up the head and the block gasket surfaces. The gasket should be ready for pickup at my local parts store. I will install the bolts dry
and torque to b&s specs. We will see what happens.

I will be in touch if the head gasket renew works. If the compression doesn't improve I will scrap/junk the whole project.

Anyone want a 1963 Briggs mounted on a 1964 Toro Sportlawn 21? It is the original motor.

Nov 23, 2013#32

briggs

ricklea1953 said:
Okay folks. Tomorrow I will be cleaning up the head and the block gasket surfaces. The gasket should be ready for pickup at my local parts store. I will install the bolts dry
and torque to b&s specs. We will see what happens.

I will be in touch if the head gasket renew works. If the compression doesn't improve I will scrap/junk the whole project.

Anyone want a 1963 Briggs mounted on a 1964 Toro Sportlawn 21? It is the original motor.

did u check the rings and make sure the valves are seating proper i would re vamp that engine hard to find

Nov 23, 2013#33

reynoldston

briggs said:
did u check the rings and make sure the valves are seating proper i would re vamp that engine hard to find

To the very lease check the valve adjustment.

Nov 23, 2013#34

Fish

The decarboning would probably help, but a good valve job would be ideal. Is it like this one? it would be great to get it running!

Nov 23, 2013#35

briggs

the block is Alum the only specs i can find are 140 pounds and use grafite grease ..Thats out of my Chiltons Manual

Nov 23, 2013#36

R

ricklea1953

Thanks folks. I will be signing off from the forum. Too much ambiguous answers.

I found a local shop and a private e-mail source (off this forum) to give me the guidance I need.

Nov 23, 2013#37

Carscw

ricklea1953 said:
Thanks folks. I will be signing off from the forum. Too much ambiguous answers. I found a local shop and a private e-mail source (off this forum) to give me the guidance I need.

Glad we was able to help you. I wish you all the luck with getting up and going again.

Nov 23, 2013#38

Fish

ricklea1953 said:
Thanks folks. I will be signing off from the forum. Too much ambiguous answers.

I found a local shop and a private e-mail source (off this forum) to give me the guidance I need.

Good!!!!!!! Sorry that we wasted our time trying to help you!!!!!!!

Nov 23, 2013#39

Fish

ricklea1953 said:
Thanks folks. I will be signing off from the forum. Too much ambiguous answers.

I found a local shop and a private e-mail source (off this forum) to give me the guidance I need.

Just out of curiosity, would have instilled any confidence in our responses? You obviously have your own agenda to grind, and you just came here to start some chit....

Nov 23, 2013#40

Fish

Carscw said:
Glad we was able to help you. I wish you all the luck with getting up and going again.

Dude........

Nov 23, 2013#41

Fish

He is a troll, trying to slap us all in the face!!!!!

Nov 23, 2013#42

Fish

Conjuring a totally bogus question..........

Nov 23, 2013#43

Carscw

I thought I had to be nice and not start any trouble

Nov 23, 2013#44

Fish

Carscw said:
I thought I had to be nice and not start any trouble

well, I 'll take the banishment.............. They hate me here anyway.......

Nov 23, 2013#45

Carscw

Fish said:
well, I 'll take the banishment.............. They hate me here anyway.......

Join the club

Nov 23, 2013#46

Fish

Carscw said:
Join the club

Cool, good to know....

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Old Briggs head gasket swap - cast or aluminum?

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