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Cut open the filter from my new Cadet after the 5 hour oil change. Somewhere I heard Kohler filters were more heavy duty than typical automotive filters but after seeing one first hand I'm not impressed. First pic is the Kohler filter and the next two are a Walmart Supertech cheapie ST3614 filter from several years ago I found on another site.

:welcome:

So what were you expecting to find ? Gold plating ?
Do you have the technical expertese required to asess the quality of the filter media or the strength of the adheasives used ?
Can you test the operation of the bypass valve ?
Can you assess its behaviour ?
Do you know what the micron rating on both filters is ?
Do you know the spread in the micron rating of both filter papers is ?
Do you know the hot wet tearing stength of both the filter papers ?
Does Walmark guarantee their filters and foot bills for engine damage should the filter fail ?

In fact do you have any idea what you are looking at or for ?

Somehow I doubt it.
Or there would have been no purpose in making this post.
And no I do not work for Kohler and I do not fit genuine Kohler filters.
Howerver I do fit aftermarket filters that come with a warantee & guarantee that are made by a company that has product liability insurance.
And they not $ 5 try your luck possibly sutiable use made is China where there is no quality control filters.

May want to read this but your decision on what you buy
http://www.knowyourparts.com/technical-articles/oil-filters-quality-matters/

bertsmobile1 said:

:welcome:

So what were you expecting to find ? Gold plating ?
Do you have the technical expertese required to asess the quality of the filter media or the strength of the adheasives used ?
Can you test the operation of the bypass valve ?
Can you assess its behaviour ?
Do you know what the micron rating on both filters is ?
Do you know the spread in the micron rating of both filter papers is ?
Do you know the hot wet tearing stength of both the filter papers ?
Does Walmark guarantee their filters and foot bills for engine damage should the filter fail ?

In fact do you have any idea what you are looking at or for ?

Somehow I doubt it.
Or there would have been no purpose in making this post.
And no I do not work for Kohler and I do not fit genuine Kohler filters.
Howerver I do fit aftermarket filters that come with a warantee & guarantee that are made by a company that has product liability insurance.
And they not $ 5 try your luck possibly sutiable use made is China where there is no quality control filters.

Click to expand...

Hey Bert, try not to get confrontational here, I'm not making any assumption based on engineering data, I'm simply showing a comparison of a high priced OEM Kohler filter with a dirt cheap Walmart filter. Obviously both are made by Champion Labs and both are of e-core design.

And I am not trying to be arguementative either, just to poit out unless you actually know what to look for and what you are looking at what you are doing is pointless other than to confuse people who have even less knowledge than you.
You can not asses the quality of the filter by looking at it unless you are using a very powerful shiloette / profile machine and a microscope.
I can buy 10um paper that is $ 2 a sheet from China which makes it cheaper than coffee filters and I can buy certified paper from Labserve at $ 160 a sheet.
Both look identical sitting on the bench, but pour fuming sulphuric acid through them and it is a different story.

You and I have no idea if the the filters are made from equivalnt materials, we don't know if they from the same machine.
I used to work at Champion spark plugs when I was young.
each and every spark plug was tested as it came off the end of the line then went into different stillages depending upon the test results.
The best ones got Champion printed on the outside and wet on to be individually boxed.
The secong best also got Champion printed on the outside but went to be blister packed in 4's , 6's & 8's
Then the Autolies
Then the Motocraft
and the worst went to K-mart
All off the same machine, all using the same materials but a lot different out of the other end.

The story at Union Carbide was exactly the same.
Same batteries commng off the same machine, same sorting.

Now I am not trying to say this is what happens with the filters just to show that I could have cut any one og the batteries of spark plugs apart and they would all have looked exactly the same to the untrained & unskilled eye.

Now I will not argue about OEM branded parts being overpriced but I will argue that there is a good chance the OEM ones are physically better.
Oh and it was not uncommon for some batteries being down labled ( garbage brand on an better batttery ) is they were short garbage batteries to fill an order for the big supermarkets.

Decided to remove the short Kohler filter after 10 Hours since the last oil change. After comparing the short with the original tall OE filter I'm even less impressed with OE filters.



Kohlers full flow short filter is only 20% shorter than the original tall OE filter.


But has 50% less media and more glue than any filter needs.


Original "Tall" OE filter has .040" thick media


New "short" OE filter has .027" thick media.

I heard WIX makes the ST filters now,,any truth to that?

577jersey said:

I heard WIX makes the ST filters now,,any truth to that?

Click to expand...

Yes, WIX makes ST filters and they are a much better filter than the older ST E-core design.

funflyer said:

Yes, WIX makes ST filters and they are a much better filter than the older ST E-core design.

Click to expand...

Thank you,,I will use those from now on.
Wix kicks butt!!

The only thing I have ever seen in Walmart Supertech products is the lower price. Been using Supertect oil and filters for years in some of my older equipment without any problems. Go ahead and pay the bigger prices because it will make you feel much better. All my newer equipment I use Ams oil with Baldwin Filters but at a extended times so there isn't much different in the end cost. The person that has all the problems that come into my shop is the one that never dose any maintenance. Nothing wrong with Supertect.

I know bro,,these engines can run for thousands of hours with no filter at all as long as you change the oil when its dirty,,the spin on filters are just an added bonus IMO

577jersey said:

I know bro,,these engines can run for thousands of hours with no filter at all as long as you change the oil when its dirty,,the spin on filters are just an added bonus IMO

Click to expand...

How about that someone I agree with :thumbsup:

reynoldston said:

How about that someone I agree with :thumbsup:

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LOL,,That doesn’t happen too often on here,,I have been playing with these engines since the late 70s,experience is always better than what some knuckle head college engineer says,,Im a bit of a rebel when it comes to mowers and engines if you haven’t noticed..lol

Anyway,I really appreciate the info on the ST filters,Im gonna go get a stack of them for the shelf for next season

Tom

Just a little ahead of you. My father ran a Bolens dealership back in the late 40's and 50's, the muck farmers ran them tractors ever day for years without a oil filters. My father also was a farmer and I just don't recall ever seeing a oil filter on any of the farm equipment. I started working for a Chevy dealership in the late 50's and on the earlier cars a oil filter was a option.

reynoldston said:

Just a little ahead of you. My father ran a Bolens dealership back in the late 40's and 50's, the muck farmers ran them tractors ever day for years without a oil filters. My father also was a farmer and I just don't recall ever seeing a oil filter on any of the farm equipment. I started working for a Chevy dealership in the late 50's and on the earlier cars a oil filter was a option.

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Thats awesome!! I worked for a Bolens dealer back in 1988 for a while i was 18 when I started,dad let me tear down and re assemble a few briggs engines when I was a little kid around 10 or so,he bought me a craftman tool kit and let me have at it.

I was always getting into trouble for taking things apart to see how they worked..lol..well its a great forum here and I always learn a thing or two from the ole timers.

Take care my friend.

Tom

And before we get too sentimental , if US small farmers were as strapped for cash as Aussie one were they took care of their equipment.
Which meat every time the tractor comes out of the machinery shed the oil , water & fuel had been checked, every grease nipple had 2 strokes from the grease gun and 1/2 liter of oil had been distributed to various parts by the long snout oil can The oil came in 44 gal drums and was used in the same measure, by the gallon.
The old Bolens tractors were well built because they had to be sold to people who were careful where they spent their money and could actually determine if a machine was good or garbage.
BEcause they would pay a fair price for good gear , there was profit in selling it so it got made well.
The DuraTrac I am currently working on cost $14,000 Aus new when a small 2 seater Suzuki 4WD was $ 10,000 , the street version was $ 8,000, a larger Dihatsu Charade was $ 10,000 and the locally made 6 cylinder family car was $ 20,000.
However now days the average owner can not tell Sh*t from clay, they make their decisions based upon advertising, consummer evaluation groups and even forums like this.
So when selling to the uneducated & technically inempt you invent things to make your product "better " in their eyes.
How many small engines were sold with spin on filters and splash lubrication ?
A combination that does not make the slightest bit of sense unless you are a spin merchant.

OTOH emission laws have gotten a lot tighter, mass machining has become much better so tollerances can be held tighter and nice clean oil,becomes more more important.
However considering the use of domestic mowers I have to agree that filter is a waste of time as the damage done by contaminated oil sitting in the engine during the off season will be far worse than the damage done by particulates floating around in the oil.

It is an arguement I have regularly in vintage motorcycle circles with the clowns who put $ 30/L synthetic oils in their bike that would be pushed to make 50 operating hours year and think they can run it for the next 50 years till they clock up 30,000 miles.

funflyer said:

Hey Bert, try not to get confrontational here, I'm not making any assumption based on engineering data, I'm simply showing a comparison of a high priced OEM Kohler filter with a dirt cheap Walmart filter. Obviously both are made by Champion Labs and both are of e-core design.

Click to expand...

So this is why funflyer made a very good point here. He found that the ST makes a very good filter at a lot cheaper price. That brings me to the Fram filters which I have never found a problem with that everybody hates.

reynoldston said:

So this is why funflyer made a very good point here. He found that the ST makes a very good filter at a lot cheaper price. That brings me to the Fram filters which I have never found a problem with that everybody hates.

Click to expand...

I used Fram filters on my mowers and trucks for years without any problems,It wasn’t until recently that i researched oil filters and found out that they where built a bit less sturdy,utilizing cheaper parts,,so I changed over to Napa,Wix,ST,ect....

I even have a Purolator on my one Kawi now....i have a friend who has been modifying the auto filters by cutting the bypass valves out,,he claims the filters flow more freely,,he might be onto something there since he has engines with 2500 plus hours on them??

The only time you would get a mower filter on bypass is after a flood and it was full of water or if the original one was still there 20 years latter.
However the oil pump on a small engine is nowhere near as powerful as tars so mower filters are generally freer flowing than car filters.
The only two important things are the micron size and the flow rate.
Auto filters usually have a lower flow rate at the low pressures mowers run at.
But again, unless the engine has pressure fed lubrication , they are a decoration

To the guy with "2500+ hours on his mower cutting out by-pass valves...might be on to something because of oil flows better" ... If filer media is clogged up or in really cold weather conditions where oil become really thick there is a "bypass valve" that opens at specified differential pressure. This bypass allows unfiltered oil to go around the filter media and back to the engine. Dirty lubrication with unfiltered oil is better than none at all...I guess? But cutting it out just because he fills like it make no sense at all. In general, automotive filters are not made the same as the ones for small engine. The difference is in the filter media and bypass valve. High end filters would use glass, medium quality use cotton and bottom end paper / celluloid fill. Anyhow, if I was to look for "car oil filter" substitute for small engine application, I'd concentrate my attention on finding one with the longest can that would fit on my mower. Max internal volume to compensate for loss of flow due to a finer fill being use on automotive style filter.


One last thing. Don't be shy sticking a strong magnet (best Ive ever found came out from an old computer hard drive) on the side of a filter can. It'll attract and drive out iron oxides that are in the oil.

Lower flow rate,,heck even if the 2 quarts of oil flowed through the filter once daily you would be doing good IMO,and Im sure it flows alot more than a quart every hour.
As long as filter restriction would not cause ports to get proper lube should be fine,,not exactly sure how the pressure system in a mower works?
If the filter was removed and housing plugged would the engine still get lube from a splash,would the pump still circulate the oil through the ports just without filtering,,I have no idea??

Like Bert said,decoration,,and like I say,,an added bonus