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Is there a trick or easy solution to removing the oil filter on a Kohler Courage 22 hp SV715 without oil going everywhere on frame and dripping on the main engine pulley? I put a bunch of paper towels behind and below the filter but it still released a lot more oil than I thought was inside it. And yes I drained the engine first .

Hi ljb,

Pull the plug wires and crank the engine a few times while the drain plug is out, then let it sit and drain a little longer. Most oil filters have an anti-drain back valve made into them, so they are difficult to get emptied.

Next option would be to fashion a trough drain out of cardboard, then use a hammer and nail to punch a hole in the lowest area of the filter to drain it out.

Form A funnel is also an option:

Auto Doc's said:

Hi ljb,

Pull the plug wires and crank the engine a few times while the drain plug is out, then let it sit and drain a little longer. Most oil filters have an anti-drain back valve made into them, so they are difficult to get emptied.

Next option would be to fashion a trough drain out of cardboard, then use a hammer and nail to punch a hole in the lowest area of the filter to drain it out.

Form A funnel is also an option:

Home - Form a Funnel

"The Original" Form-a-Funnel® Eliminate the use of cardboard, plastic jugs and other messy solutions to changing oil. Shop Now! "The Original" Form-a-Funnel® FORM-A-FUNNEL® bends and molds around anything to create a leak proof channel for draining or a funnel for filling Shop Now! "The...

formafunnel.com

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Thanks Auto Doc for your help and tips. I will try this next time.

Never spill a drop of oil if the filter is loosened so it can be turned by hand , then a hole is drilled at 12 o'clock in the filter butt . Make a funnel that will fit under the filter that will touch the engine . Next rotate the filter ccw to 6 o'clock to put the drilled hole at the bottom and let er drain into a container .

That is a good idea, but many mower oil filters are barely accessible, much less drill a hole.

Auto Doc's said:

That is a good idea, but many mower oil filters are barely accessible, much less drill a hole.

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Yes , that won't be successful on some .

SeniorCitizen said:

Yes , that won't be successful on some .

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small 22 caliber directly through; but do it in the grass, not a concrete floor .....

SeniorCitizen said:

Never spill a drop of oil if the filter is loosened so it can be turned by hand , then a hole is drilled at 12 o'clock in the filter butt . Make a funnel that will fit under the filter that will touch the engine . Next rotate the filter ccw to 6 o'clock to put the drilled hole at the bottom and let er drain into a container .

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I like this idea. I will try this next time. Thanks

maybe one of these may help https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017MTFIYE?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1&th=1

Shop vac on oil fill tube. What's not to like?

Hi Slomo,

I used that trick years ago when I worked in an automotive shop. We occasionally would have a vehicle that the drain plug would not seal properly on. Applying a vacuum to the filler and then quickly switching the drain plug worked pretty slick.

Not sure how that would work with an oil filter change on a rider engine. Maybe it will draw the excess oil out of the oil filter if left to set for a few minutes.

Oil is too heavy to get into the vacuum. Way up on top of the engine so to say.

Yep, it's too heavy. The idea is to apply a vacuum (negative pressure) effect to the crankcase.

Back when I was teaching, ran into this problem on a wide variety of engines. Made about a half dozen what I call oil troughs. Here’s what I had my students do. Get a piece of polyethylene plastic about 6” X 8”X1/8”. Get a new or cleaned up used filter you need a solution for, two work better, plus a heat gun and good gloves. Slowly heat the plastic to the point where you can form the 6” side around the filter, making a tube. It does have to be completely closed. When it is cool you may have to cut the tube back so you can turn the filter. When you want to change the filter, loosen the filter a little and then slide the tube over the filter, tight to the block. Finish removing the filter and oil runs out the tube into your drain pan. Label tube with paint pen and put in storage for future use. Students got to keep theirs, but I also kept left overs as spares. Might have to do a little rework to get them to fit right. Not perfect, but does save a lot of cleanup. PS: Found milk jug plastic to thin and flexible.

All way too complicated - I use a piece of malleable aluminium flashing (replaced lead).
Can be purchased from the hardware in a small role.
Its thin enough to cut with scissors (best with metal shears/snips), soft enough to be easily fashioned into a trough, that will hold its shape.
Can be reused indefinitely and you will find lots of other uses for malleable aluminium.

Metal was a material I tried, but found that it would not hold its form. Easily distorted especially the area around the filter. Plus it had sharp corners and edges, which caused an increase in the bandaid supply. I forgot to add that once you size the plastic around the filter, heat the plastic one more time and end in slightly, giving the tube some tension to cling to the filter.

"Metal was a material I tried, but found that it would not hold its form"

Obviously you did not try aluminium flashing. Its designed to be easily formed by hand, no tools or heating required ( similar to the lead flashing it replaces) and hold its form

did anyone look at the Amazon link I posted? These things are incredible.

sgkent said:

did anyone look at the Amazon link I posted? These things are incredible.

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Yes I did. I will order one next time I change the filter.

Yes , that would be convenient if i could find it when i needed it .

If the Form A Funnel man would do it as i do it , he wouldn't have those streams of running down the side .

Working in a trade school I had access to many different types of materials. Metal formed very easily, but the environment of a shop got banged around leaving openings around the filter which would leak. Plastic solved that problem and as I said reduced the number of times hands and wrist were cut. Out in the field we also found cardboard a good one time substitute.

sgkent said:

did anyone look at the Amazon link I posted? These things are incredible.

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What is it with us humans? - We almost always prefer the costly $$$ solution to the cheap.
Why purchase this single use item, in a glossy package, when you can get a small role of ductile aluminium flashing (probably for less $) that will do the job just as well & can be used for a host of other projects.
The aluminium can be shaped/formed by hand, will hold the shape as long as you want, can be cut with scissors (better with snips) into whatever length you want and reused indefinitely

Or you a shop vac you probably already have for free?

I've used aluminum foil to form a simple funnel. Works better on some machines than others. Then throw it away. Nothing to clean up or store.

With the engine warm, drain as much oil as possible. Use and aluminium pie plate to form a trough beneath the Filter.

ljb said:

Is there a trick or easy solution to removing the oil filter on a Kohler Courage 22 hp SV715 without oil going everywhere on frame and dripping on the main engine pulley? I put a bunch of paper towels behind and below the filter but it still released a lot more oil than I thought was inside it. And yes I drained the engine first

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Rivets said:

Working in a trade school I had access to many different types of materials. Metal formed very easily, but the environment of a shop got banged around leaving openings around the filter which would leak. Plastic solved that problem and as I said reduced the number of times hands and wrist were cut. Out in the field we also found cardboard a good one time substitute.

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Cardboard is what I use then it is re-cycled for some of the kindling in the wood stove .

I use a plastic drinking cup big enough to cover the filter after loosening it. Unscrew and let it fall in the cup. Works on many engines. I also use dog raining pads and line the chassis and floor to catch any drips. They work fantastic.

Better engineering by the design engineers would help.

farmerdave1954 said:

Better engineering by the design engineers would help.

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interestingly, my JD x585 has a drip tray that the engineers designed to catch the bit of oil that spills out when replacing the filter. It's also nice hold JD has a flexible drain tube, so you can direct the oil flow into a container, and not all over the machine or floor. If they can do it, hmmmm....

Do some oil filter research. That engine may not require anti-drainback valve but there's VERY likely one with same specs otherwise that'll substitute

Take the filter off cold engine. When you warm it up all you do is fill the filter with oil.

“Anti drainback valves” leak everything out in a short time. They exist to prevent the “water hammer” effect from back flushing crud out of the filter when the oil pump suddenly stops when the engine stops.

I've a machine with a similar set up: No way to drain without getting oil on the frame.

Solution:
Dollar store has 16" x 24" x 2" deep aluminum food tray pans at six for $1.25. I buy a stack and, using plain scissors, cut notches out of the pan's walls so it can slide under. The pan catches all the drips (or in my fumbly case- The spills)

When done, I dump the oil in the collecting jug (which is also sitting in a disposable pan) and put the aluminum pan in the recycle bin (or save it for next time)

i get an old plastic drink glass,9subway0,cit a section out of 1 side big enough to get fingers in. loosen filter,slide this up against block,unscrew filter. i catches the oil and filter,and can be easily dumped to empty. keep it around,can be used several times. you may get a small amount of drips ,but can wiped up easy.

GrumpyCat said:

Take the filter off cold engine. When you warm it up all you do is fill the filter with oil.

“Anti drainback valves” leak everything out in a short time. They exist to prevent the “water hammer” effect from back flushing crud out of the filter when the oil pump suddenly stops when the engine stops.

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News to me!!! - For the last 50 years plus, I have understood the "drain back" prevention valve is so that oil will be available immediately at start up ie not drain back into the sump.
This is specifically to reduce the accelerated wear, that would otherwise occur, due to the delay in oil delivery, as the lubrication system primes & starts to circulate oil.

You may have to rethink your "crud" theory

slomo said:

Shop vac on oil fill tube. What's not to like?

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Speedy oil change places clued me in on that practice, as they strip out so many drain plugs, they need a way to put in a self-threading oversize plug, WITHOUT loosing a drop of the new oil!

SamB said:

Speedy oil change places clued me in on that practice, as they strip out so many drain plugs, they need a way to put in a self-threading oversize plug, WITHOUT loosing a drop of the new oil!

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Now you've gone and done it..... some years ago, I was passing by a Monroe Muffler shop it dawned on me my oil was overdue on the 2-year-old Jeep I was driving, and since their lot was almost empty I "thought" I could get in and out quick. Well, I got in immediately; but, 45 minutes later my Jeep is still up on the lift and all the other bays were empty. So, I get the managers attention and inquiry why the hold up? He tells me that the oil pan plug was rusted in place and ruined the threads when the tech removed it. Well, I was born in the morning, but not that morning. So, not even bothering to worry about their employee's only sign, I walk into the bay and look for myself. Just as I'm standing there the tech shows up and has a Helicoil in hand. Then I look up on the lift-arm and there sits the drain plug, I pick it up and while the plug threads are fine, I can see the metal shavings off the threads of the oil pan, obviously after it cross threaded and forced into the hole. In short, I told the manager to call the Jeep dealership, a block away, and have them send over a new oil pan. When it was done, I just grabbed the keys and told the manager to eat the bill. Or I'd just drive right across the street to the courthouse, as luck would have it, and file a small-claims suit against them..... case closed, and never used a quick-change shop again!

Honest Abe said:

Now you've gone and done it..... some years ago, I was passing by a Monroe Muffler shop it dawned on me my oil was overdue on the 2-year-old Jeep I was driving, and since their lot was almost empty I "thought" I could get in and out quick. Well, I got in immediately; but, 45 minutes later my Jeep is still up on the lift and all the other bays were empty. So, I get the managers attention and inquiry why the hold up? He tells me that the oil pan plug was rusted in place and ruined the threads when the tech removed it. Well, I was born in the morning, but not that morning. So, not even bothering to worry about their employee's only sign, I walk into the bay and look for myself. Just as I'm standing there the tech shows up and has a Helicoil in hand. Then I look up on the lift-arm and there sits the drain plug, I pick it up and while the plug threads are fine, I can see the metal shavings off the threads of the oil pan, obviously after it cross threaded and forced into the hole. In short, I told the manager to call the Jeep dealership, a block away, and have them send over a new oil pan. When it was done, I just grabbed the keys and told the manager to eat the bill. Or I'd just drive right across the street to the courthouse, as luck would have it, and file a small-claims suit against them..... case closed, and never used a quick-change shop again!

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The minimum wage guy is under pressure to get the customer out as quick as possible, good job be damned, and strip the plug? No problem, they have a tray of oversize plugs to self-thread into that stripped out hole! That just takes a minute or so and no one is the wiser. (usually!) Worse case scenario was on a sheet steel oil pan. The oil change place put in a self-threading plug in that was a bit too large and broke loose the spot-welded reinforcing plate INSIDE the oil pan. The plug wouldn't tighten, nor would it come out! The engine had to come out to get the pan off and since the engine wouldn't hold oil, the vehicle had to hauled to a repair shop to do the major repair. Absolutely NO quick change places for me!

Honest Abe said:

oil pan plug was rusted in place

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An oiled plug, rusted in place...... Let that percolate a bit.

Meaning they stripped slash cross threaded it.

Hi slomo,

I call BS on the drain plug rusted in place story. It was likely severely overtightened in the past and the threads were galled, or the impatient lube jockey cross threaded it.

When I first started out as a mechanic in Virginia in the 80's I was actually taught to always install a drain plug by hand and then use a torque wrench to tighten it down.

If we had one that was badly damaged, or the plug threads were galled up and the plug was stuck, we would quote them an oil pan job without hesitation. Forcing a self-tap oil plug back in could have potentially costed an engine in a very short time.

Skippydiesel said:

News to me!!! - For the last 50 years plus, I have understood the "drain back" prevention valve is so that oil will be available immediately at start up ie not drain back into the sump.
This is specifically to reduce the accelerated wear, that would otherwise occur, due to the delay in oil delivery, as the lubrication system primes & starts to circulate oil.

You may have to rethink your "crud" theory

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Lay your old filter on its side. Come back in an hour and rethink your 50 year old belief. The oil will have drained out through your beloved anti-drainback valve. The surface between the punched perimeter holes and valve flap is too crude to form a perfect seal. It isn’t intended to.

Or, remove the filter cold and see how much oil it holds.

For instance a Subaru Outback 2.5i filter is mounted open end down, with an “anti-drainback” valve. Filter will be empty 5 minutes after turning the engine off. Why bother if the point is to hold oil in filter to next start?

2000 Toyota Avalon filter is mounted 45° down yet most all oil gets sucked out overnight in spite of the anti-drainback valve. Change oil in this engine cold holds 5.0 quarts with new filter. Change oil hot with messy removal of old filter it only holds 4.5-4.7 quarts.

Hi Grumpy Cat,

Strikes me that efficacy of non return valve will depend on;

• Quality of filter
• Column of oil above/below filter, providing additional sealing pressure (absent when you remove filter & allow to drain on side)

"Subaru Outback 2.5i filter is mounted open end down, with an “anti-drainback” valve. Filter will be empty 5 minutes after turning the engine off."
"2000 Toyota Avalon filter is mounted 45° down yet most all oil gets sucked out overnight in spite of the anti-drainback valve."

Interesting observations. How do you know? Have you remover filters at, say ,1 minute intervals, to check for retained oil quantity?

In the days before non return valves - on engine start up, you were supposed to wait (before revving/loading the engine) until oil pressure reached a desired level, indicating system full/circulating. In some engines this could take many seconds (especially those with many kilometers/hours) during which bearings/bushes may be running dry.
In modern engine the oil pressure no longer warrants a gauge, all that you get is a warning light, if pressure lost/not achieved. The only time you might see this light, is before engine start and after an oil change. The latter only showing for a brief moment or two, IF the mechanic has done a good job.
My Ford Ranger has a non return valve in the oil circulation system - not in the oil filter (as did my MB, 300D, W123), however all my other engines have the valve in the filter.

Skippydiesel said:

Hi Grumpy Cat,

Strikes me that efficacy of non return valve will depend on;

• Quality of filter
• Column of oil above/below filter, providing additional sealing pressure (absent when you remove filter & allow to drain on side)

"Subaru Outback 2.5i filter is mounted open end down, with an “anti-drainback” valve. Filter will be empty 5 minutes after turning the engine off."
"2000 Toyota Avalon filter is mounted 45° down yet most all oil gets sucked out overnight in spite of the anti-drainback valve."

Interesting observations. How do you know? Have you remover filters at, say ,1 minute intervals, to check for retained oil quantity?

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As stated, Subaru OE filter (and Wix) is empty by the time I get around to removing from hot engine, 5 minutes. Avalon filter was bone dry overnight cold. The Avalon was particularly interesting because it made a huge mess when removed hot. 45° angle spilled oil on hot manifold and active motor mount. And most interesting as to be empty the oil had to be suctioned out as things cooled. Could not have emptied via gravity. On start it reached operating pressure quickly, but slower after an oil change, The mess is what prompted me to try cold. That it held full 5.0 quarts with filter cold, filter came off clean, 4.5 hot, filter made a mess, taught me to change that engine cold.

Have you done as I asked? Lay your used filter 1/3rd full on its side and observe oil leaking out or not? It will leak slowly through the anti-drainback valve. Which is most appropriately an anti-backwash valve.

Skippydiesel said:

In the days before non return valves - on engine start up, you were supposed to wait (before revving/loading the engine) until oil pressure reached a desired level, indicating system full/circulating. In some engines this could take many seconds (especially those with many kilometers/hours) during which bearings/bushes may be running dry.

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Supposed to do that today too.

Skippydiesel said:

In modern engine the oil pressure no longer warrants a gauge, all that you get is a warning light, if pressure lost/not achieved.

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Only get an idiot light because gauges cost extra and confuse today’s idiot drivers. Still get gauges on some vehicles. Admit some gauges are fake.

Skippydiesel said:

The only time you might see this light, is before engine start and after an oil change. The latter only showing for a brief moment or two, IF the mechanic has done a good job.
My Ford Ranger has a non return valve in the oil circulation system - not in the oil filter (as did my MB, 300D, W123), however all my other engines have the valve in the filter.

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My F-150 has a cartridge filter which has to be opened to fully drain oil on change. Made mistake of draining oil before removing filter, filter must be out during drain. Else 8-16 oz remains resulting in overfill if full 6 quarts is added. Ford says allow 15 minutes after turning engine off to check oil level. Think it is trying to hold oil in pipes for minimal wear during Automatic Start Stop.

next up, an 80-page thesis on oil viscosity and flow rate . . . . .

Honest Abe said:

next up, an 80-page thesis on oil viscosity and flow rate . . . . .

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Man, and all this started with my simple question lol.

ljb said:

Man, and all this started with my simple question lol.

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You bad! But seriously, does the filter on any lawn/garden really do anything after the initial break-in period?
I realize that some machining shavings, etc may be circulating the first hour or two, but after that? One of my engines has a filter, but the others do not. So on the non-filtered ones, I just vac the oil out. As has been gone over a couple of times in this thread. the horizontal filter really holds no oil after shutdown. So, is vacuuming the oil out of that one a bad practice?

Hello SamB,

Nothing wrong with using a vacuum method to suction the majority of oil out through the dipstick tube. Even using the conventional drain on these engines will not empty all of the oil. (regardless of also tipping the engine as well).

All sumps have what I call "resting areas" where some oil and wear sediment will remain. Vertical engines have more of these areas.

As for changing the oil filter, I think that is important because the filter traps very fine wear particles constantly. Wear on any engine will produce microscopic particles and carbon deposits. The oil filter is vital. Oil does not wear out, it gets dirty.

Smaller engines do not typically have oil filters due to their small dimensions and displacement. These engines are also not built to last more than a few years even with proper oil maintenance.

Auto Doc's said:

Hello SamB,

Nothing wrong with using a vacuum method to suction the majority of oil out through the dipstick tube. Even using the conventional drain on these engines will not empty all of the oil. (regardless of also tipping the engine as well).

All sumps have what I call "resting areas" where some oil and wear sediment will remain. Vertical engines have more of these areas.

As for changing the oil filter, I think that is important because the filter traps very fine wear particles constantly. Wear on any engine will produce microscopic particles and carbon deposits. The oil filter is vital. Oil does not wear out, it gets dirty.

Smaller engines do not typically have oil filters due to their small dimensions and displacement. These engines are also not built to last more than a few years even with proper oil maintenance.

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OK. That said, will it extend engine life to 'flush' these "resting areas" or are they best left alone? Let sleeping dogs lie, as it were?

"Have you done as I asked? Lay your used filter 1/3rd full on its side and observe oil leaking out or not? It will leak slowly through the anti-drainback valve."

Sorry Grumpy Cat - next servicing/oil change, probably several weeks away

"Which is most appropriately an anti-backwash valve."

Backwash - isn't that when you drink out of a bottle ?? Never heard this term used in relation to an engine.

Skippydiesel said:

"Have you done as I asked? Lay your used filter 1/3rd full on its side and observe oil leaking out or not? It will leak slowly through the anti-drainback valve."

Sorry Grumpy Cat - next servicing/oil change, probably several weeks away

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So you never questioned the orthodoxy you read on the internet claiming the flap around the perimeter holes was to hold oil in the filter between starts? And never noticed oil running out of a used filter laying on it's side?

Skippydiesel said:

"Which is most appropriately an anti-backwash valve."

Backwash - isn't that when you drink out of a bottle ?? Never heard this term used in relation to an engine.

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Are you here to only reafirm everything you have "learned" elsewhere?

When the engine stops running there is inertia in the motor oil moving through oil passages then suddenly not being pumped. It creates a suction as it stops, and then a shockwave travels backwards. This can knock stuff loose in the filter. The flap holds most in, only has to function for a fraction of a second.

SamB said:

OK. That said, will it extend engine life to 'flush' these "resting areas" or are they best left alone? Let sleeping dogs lie, as it were?

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Hello SamB,

I would say "let sleeping dogs lie". Engine flush can easily do more harm than good because it is formulated with release agents. It may release clumps of aged sediment buildup that should not be circulated in the engine oil.