Off With the Intek Plastic

[motoman]

Seems like keeping oil within a reasonable range (auto gurus panic at 280F) is like keeping the fins clear . Two "fluids" working to transport heat away. I am sure the thermal engineers have tried every scheme imaginable by now. Picking up an Intek 24 head and feeling the light weight and small size should impress us the things work at all with cool intake mix just inches away from hot combustion and exhaust gas temp. With my Intek 24 in hot weather I have always seen the heat increase quickly during HARD work, like mowing uphill with grass catcher. Is this the poor crank and rods passing heat to the rest of the engine and the pistons undersides "feeling" the heat and adding it to combustion heat and into the head? If so one would think any cooling of the sump oil would have a beneficial effect on the whole engine.

On the other hand "casual" work in the same heat like hauling a little utility trailer hardly moves the needle. Perhaps those who do not experience 300F simply use their ?riders gently? As a consumer the so called "warranties" included with the new big box equipment are practically worthless. Why not just go ahead and create ads like we see on TV for expensive drugs like..."ask your doctor if xxx is right for you...and remember you may have thoughts of suicide , but you will feel much better..." A JOKE, A JOKE,A JOKE.

Ken , thanks for the tip on the inspection plates on the heads. I will look for them.

 

[ken_clifton]

Seems like keeping oil within a reasonable range (auto gurus panic at 280F) is like keeping the fins clear... If so one would think any cooling of the sump oil would have a beneficial effect on the whole engine....On the other hand "casual" work in the same heat like hauling a little utility trailer hardly moves the needle. Perhaps those who do not experience 300F simply use their ?riders gently? ... thanks for the tip on the inspection plates on the heads. I will look for them.

Motoman,
I read where the Craftsman had some trouble -- sorry --.

The blower housing I used with the inspection covers is BS P/N: 799957. One screw is all it takes to remove the inspection covers over each cylinder head. Surprising how much room is above those heads... I used that blower housing primarily because it allowed my air filter modification to work. That housing is used on engines with the Cyclonic air filter. I have some of the other parts for that, but seeing them with all the plastic and how little spring pressure is supposedly sealing that filter in worried me too much. I am much happier with a big hose clamp tightly sealing things -- and the AEM Dryflow (Brute-Force) filter and dry charger.

I have read a lot about how even the synthetic oils thin way out after about 250 degrees. I feel much better with the temps lower. I posted in the "build it yourself" forum here about my 2 quart filter stuff: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/38834-Remote-Oil-Filter-Oil-Coolers-and-2-Quart-Filter?p=243578#post243578

With my setup, I don't notice much difference between cutting 12 inch high grass with a catcher and 4 inch high stuff. The temp seems to come up quicker though under load.

ken_clifton

 

[motoman]

I looked closer at your setup and see the advantage of the different blower housing. I suppose a rider would require a cutout for the air cleaner, but hmmmm...Also the combined gauge looks almost like a stepper with the sharp pointed needles. I am just taking delivery of a Depo Japan sourced oil temp gauge with stepper needle AND led readout. Doing this because the analog BeeDee sweep needle always left me trying to calculate the temps in between the major numbers shown on the face. I will revamp the existing dashboard layout by featuring oil press and temp and moving the ammeter and hr meter. Maybe I should scout around for an "exposed" polyneck air filter I can clamp . First in, just the oil temp gauge in the remote chance the oil temps on this Intek 24 are cooler than my Craftsman has been, and I do not need the cooler (fat chance)... BTW cutting grass out the chute is LOT easier work for engine than forcing it up the collection chute and piling on the weight in the three bags ,I have observed. I have mentioned before that IMO the craftsman slick brochures showing that setup is a "destructive " ad for many homeowners. I believe such rigs should use sweepers which may produce less load although requiring additional passes.

Edit . And even closer looks at pic 2 and 3 shows that the gauge is mechanical,not stepper. Is that a thermostat on top of the filter? You are using two (wow) coolers just like my one. Very nice and potent looking rig!!

 

[ken_clifton]

And even closer looks at pic 2 and 3 shows that the gauge is mechanical,not stepper. Is that a thermostat on top of the filter? You are using two (wow) coolers just like my one. Very nice and potent looking rig!!

Here is a link to the mechanical Honeywell boiler gauge: http://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-TD-090-1-4-NPT-3-1-8-Face-Temperature-Pressure-Gauge-Tridicator

I have been real happy with the simplicity of it. Just one threaded connection, nothing to mount and no wires to run. I just discovered it this summer. Prior to that I would have been making two connections, and running tubing and wire probably. Anyway it is an easy to read thing with a 3 1/8th face. The LED gauge you have on the way sounds real accurate.

No thermostat on top of the oil filter -- the remote mount is very universal it has multiple inputs and outputs, I just plugged two of them. On the coolers, keep in mind that one is for the engine and the other one is for the hydraulics. The size of the coolers is just right for a 120 mm computer fan if I ever decide to go that route. Those fans can be had really cheaply. I have also found a push-in thermostat and relay on eBay that I could use to control them. I don't think the fans will be necessary though.

If you wanted to go with a bigger cooler Tru-Cool makes one the same length as what we have but twice as wide. That would be a lot of heat dissipation.

ken_clifton

 

[ken_clifton]

Just finished bush-hogging with the SCAG. I should have used the JD 1020, but it is hard to get under those chestnut trees with the tractor. The grass was up about 18 inches, the Intek's oil temp was running 265 today doing all that work...

I finished up the metal air cleaner assembly and got it all mounted to the SCAG. I created a thread with a bunch of photos of that "engineering" over in the "build it yourself" forum: http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showthread.php/38900-Covered-Metal-Air-Filter-Adapted-to-a-Briggs-Intek

ken_clifton

 

[motoman]

And my dyt 4000 would have probably been at 280F+ and probably could not have handled 18" weeds.. Got the new stepper gauge today.

 

[ken_clifton]

And my dyt 4000 would have probably been at 280F+ and probably could not have handled 18" weeds.. Got the new stepper gauge today.

Keep us posted on the gauge and the oil temps Motoman. I hope the temps are not too bad. Remember Briggs says ambient plus 190-210 deg F without an oil cooler. That is real warm when the temps are 90 degrees they are looking for 280F. Your data points will be interesting.

ken_clifton

 

[motoman]

Ken, The ref to the Briggs guideline (heat formula above) is the first I have seen and would have answered a big question I had when first joining this form years back. The only thing approaching an official statement until now was a dealer statement that 270F and below was "OK." If the big box riders sitting in front of Lowes carried the FDA-like warnings such as "caution this machine is subject to overheating," sales would suffer. (Understatement) Are zero turns cooler running because of the open design , in your opinion? So that guideline suggests no mowing should be done as ambient climbs to e.g., 100F??? I did not see that warning in the Craftsman manual. :laughing:

 

[ken_clifton]

Ken, If the big box riders sitting in front of Lowes carried the FDA-like warnings such as "caution this machine is subject to overheating," sales would suffer. (Understatement) Are zero turns cooler running because of the open design , in your opinion? So that guideline suggests no mowing should be done as ambient climbs to e.g., 100F??? I did not see that warning in the Craftsman manual.

Motoman, I believe a whole lot of this mowing equipment is targeted for "residential use." Most of the time I don't see a stable oil temp until after about 2 hours of mowing. Most of the residential folks are probably not going to run the machine long enough to hit the maximum oil temp.

It has been 8 years, but it seems like the SCAG warranty actually provided an acreage size for their residential warranty. I think a lot of these companies just figure the folks purchasing them will only mow about 50 hours a year and if it hangs together for 5 years, then all is good from their perspective.

On the zero turns, it seems to me that they would naturally be drawing in cooler air into the blower. There is no cowl over the top holding in all that heat... And more air flow over the outside of the sump, and case on the zero turn.

Your data point (oil temp measurements) on your new Intek will be interesting to see after 2 hours of use. That oil has to be getting real warm.

If I had it to do over, I would go with the oil cooler that is 8 inches wide instead of 4 -- it is amazing how hot that oil gets. Then you have the oil testing on a lot of the Briggs and other air cooled lawn engines saying how they really shear the oil (see BITOG site), much more than other engines.

ken_clifton

 

[motoman]

When I bought my Craftsman dyt 4000 Sears has guidelines after asking how large a customer's mowed lot is. I told them 1 1/2 acre and they suggested the 48 deck. It takes me a couple hours to mow and at 84F ambient my temp is full on within 1/2 hour. But you may be right about the targeted customer. If 5 years is the expectancy the 10 or more years some get with moderate to hard usage is beyond expectations. This big box business is really quite strange when you stand back. One would think the customer base would shrink and shrink. It seems too that so called "reliability reports" published by consumer pubs is really a disservice as it typically asks owners about the first couple years ownership.